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My two teeth, this is in the contest of "Bully Boyz", and I played them already.

Breaka are good for many reason: they are the only source of D3 that we have, they say hi! to c'tan; I use them as substitute to nobz, 5x nobz+warboss 180p, while 6x breaka+warboss 215p; they are 7 so you can still taxi along 5x burna/flash gitz; both nobz and breaka are a missile unit, but breaka smash better what they need to smash and they had a wider variety of possible targets.

Both smash standard marine. There is no istance, which I can think of, where nobz are better. Nobz have 20x PK atk hitting on 3+ and wounding T5< on 2+, Breaka are 18x hammer atk, of which 3 are dev wounds, hitting on 2+ and wounding on 3+.
What I care is TEQ / T6 gravis like. Against T6 both wound on 3+ but breaka boyz are D3.
Against T10 (most light tank), T11 (vindicator), T12 (BWs, land raiders) nobz are mostly useless, they must either oneshot their target or they are dead next turn anyway. Instead, breaka can break their way through tough vehicles (18 atk 2+ to hit, 4+ to wounds, 4+ to save, D3 -> 10+ wounds, the 9x PK atks of the warboss AND the bomb squig AND the grenade can easily make it to 16).

I repeat this is in the contest of "Bully Boyz" where I go around with 5x trukks + tellyporta + 3x megaboss with 5/6 MANZ + 3x warboss with 6x breaka boyz + various scoring units.

ABK - Always Be Krumping

gungo wrote:
I can only see them used in a dreadmob detachment as a dedicated anti vehicle/monster unit with ap-4/-3. And even that is suspect. Bottom line breakas are 10pts overpriced and knucklebustas need -2ap

Dreadmob neither needs them for their melee profile (they got nauts, dreads and kanz), nor does da button do anything for breakas.
The AP buff does not help you get past high armor saves, it merely adds an unsaved wounds or two to the final result. It will never make a unit that's bad at piercing armor good at amor. I've shot enough dreadmob lootas at LRBT to learn that lesson

New tankbustas are the best help orks got with these changes. Poor bullyboys took multi hits with warboss points and hulking brutes nerf, but Waagh changes help for turn 2 games. Was actually hoping for help with buggies, or slight point drops for squig riders or ability change to killakans or bringing back the reroll 1 to armor saves in greentide. But maybe a new detachment can change things up bloodaxe theme?

I think they are focusing on getting the detachments that do work as intended right first, like warhorde and bully boyz. Tackling internal balance issues is a lower priority and only gets addressed if external balance is unproblematic. And even then, they reduce outliers first before raising underperformers. You can observe similar patterns for other armies.

Green tide is a separate issue - other players almost unanimously gave the feedback that they hated playing against green tide. Killing off the detachment was not a balance decision, much like the stompa sitting at 800 points isn't either. It's a soft-ban from competitive play and I expect neither to change any time soon.

Not wanting to digress from the good discussion but new detach for orks tomorrow.

Speaking of Green Tide, is it still somewhat viable in the current meta? I haven't heard from it much after it got the smack down in the last balance update, I'm planning to try it in the new Grotmas A-bomb-inable Snowman Christmas Scenario so it's not a super competitive context, but I wanted to see if the new tankbustas would be usable in that detachment since it feels like it addresses the lack of anti-tank tech that it's in that army archetype.

I've seen Green Tide show up in a few of the weekend reports on the WarhammerCompetitive subreddit. It's not winning anything these days, but seems to be giving a good showing and popping up in the top tables every now and then.

It exists mostly as a stat-check list, and currently there seems to be a good amount of lists that can either cripple Green Tide through raw damage, or cripple it through movement and tarpit our units before we can get our points in.

NEW DETACHEMENT - KUNNIN BLOOD AXE TACTICAL BRIGADE!

https://assets.warhammer-community.com/eng_warhammer40000_grotmas_detachment_orks_taktikal_brigade-bptrvln4gb-mutbkafvrt.pdf

Pretty complex

A) MA Big mek can be the Leader of Flashgitz with the benefits =
10 Flashgitz with 4++ to survive, +1 to hit with the full rerolls on hit.
You can give them Stealth and cover in exchange for passing Leadership test or lost D3MW.
And you can take three of them and do it on all of them in a single turn

B) you can give a very strange leaders to the kommandos like Defkilla Wartrike. There seems to be something to be FAQed
https://www.goonhammer.com/detachment-focus-taktikal-brigade/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR3k8SsgGd8Sf0md7aJ_Ej1IIoV1dVefMJO9vcNK9RkaUswWRVJFfaJ2CKU_aem_F1smuXgBH9C2lPLqA-hZYg

C) you can redeploy the Stormboyz that are Battleline. Cool. But after that it is hard to give them a Tactic, because they have no leader available

D) huh, this is a way how to buff Deffkoptas

This detach is absolute gold, well to me at least.

It's so orky it must be green. Have to throw my claw at the writer's. Impressed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
lol big mek in mega armour with flash gitz on reserve, ammo run(lethals), 4++ shooting, give it +1 to hit, recover 1 bodyguard, full rerolls.

Extra bonus, put them in reserve with 2 other tankbustas xD


Automatically Appended Next Post:
i think i can reach S12 with nobz, defo going to try this.

S12 or S13 = we definitely can make +3S right now.

+1 waaagh
+1 Taktik
+1 Kill Rig

Beastboss S13
PK nobz S12
BSBoyz S8

Fun fact is that TB can be Kommandos sneaky oriented army, but it could be also be:

- melee devastator - 3 killrigs with the BSBoyz and BSBosses + some Nob Trukks works very well.
- shooting carnage - via Big Meks etc

All with the simple pack of 3 stormboyz units scoring like a hell.
You don ' t even need Kommandos to have a fun and success with this.

Ou yeh and Wartrike - can also get S13 + moves 18” and can have 18” TAKTIK range so it can work basicly like a mobile TAKTIKer

Definitely an interesting detatchment that could be played in a multitude of ways.


I wanna be the grinch for a second and actually complain about something. I wanna complain that our breaka boys and tankbustas come in units of 6 rather than 5. Which i know is stupid i guess because you get more models, but it just doesnt add up for any transports properly. Not if you want characters with them, which you probably would want. I guess it makes sense if you just want 6 tankbustas and 5 what ever else. But you cant add any characters.

I guess you can make alternative swat trukks by excluding characters though.

Annoyingly the battlewagon only has firing deck 11 too, which is even lower than the trukks 12, for reasons unknown.


Anyway thats all that really bugs me with the new units. The new detatchment however looks great and a lot of fun. Im currently unsure if they will keep the "all warboss" keyword for leading a unit of kommandos, or if they will reduce it to warboss models with infantry keyword only. Because it seems kinda janky to advance flat 6 for kommandos always, with a wartrike leading them. Those are some speedy kommandos indeed. Well that and the wartrike base is rather long, so you can frogleap him ahead to get even further than the 12 inches the kommandos could move normally.

Currently im loading my trukks with tankbustas and shokk attack guns, because i lack Lootas. That and 1 big mek in mega armor with KFF with 10 flash gitz. But i wonder whats our best shooting unit would be for this detatchment (outside of "Mek Kaptain" enhancement for like 10 flash gitz or what ever shooting unit you want).

I love everything about that detachment.

Thoughts (not going to repeat Tomsug's great ideas)
- one order is guaranteed to succeed, two orders have a 27.77% failure chance on a warboss and a 41.66% failure chance on meks, and there is no way to re-roll it outside of crusade. You should only double up on taktiks if you are desperate. So when triggering two buffs, always assume that you are going to take d3 MW.
- MA leaders do not increase a unit's toughness
- You can give orders right after disembarking or arriving from reserves, but not when using rapid ingress.
- Badrukk is back, except he now can wear MA, a KFF and brings back a flash git every turn. You think 285 points is too expensive for this? Sorry, can't hear you over all that dakka.
- Some of you gitz can relive the glory times of 5th by infiltrating a MA warboss with kommandoz.
- A unit of kommadoz lead by a beastboss can ride in a kill rig or hunta rig. Make of that what you want. I was wrong. See below.
- I think kommandoz gain a lot from being lead by a regular warboss, but I'm not sure it's the best place to put a warboss. Nobz and breaka boyz are just much better units...
- A Wartrike can buff its unit of warbikers with +1 to ranged hit and/or stealth and cover, which might be just enough to make them viable.
- Stealthy squighogs seem like a huge pain in the rear for opponents.
- Both warbikers and hogs benefit greatly from the fall back, shoot&charge stratagem.
- While heavy does not stack, SAG and lootas can still use Shoota Drills to move and shoot at full power or to get through a -1 to hit unit
- Probably obvious, but Thrakka can give orders.
- From my experience with crusade, I can tell you that shoota boyz lead a big mek with +1 to hit is not something to be taken lightly.
- Tankbustas might only have use for the stealth/cover taktiks, but their leader can still buff a nearby unit.
- The stratagems can easily turn the tide of a game if applied correctly. You absolutely need two units of gretchin to have enough CP.
- Having sustained and lethal hits available as a stratagem allows you to bring a hammer unit or two, but your army probably needs to be a bit more shooting oriented than bully boyz or warhorde. Finding out the right mix of units will take some iterations.
- While I could field 6 units of storm boyz now, I see no reason why I should. The detachment doesn't do a whole lot for them, so I see no use to bring them outside of 1 or 2 for action monkey things. When not playing competitive missions, I'd probably not bring them at all unless Zagstrukk gets taken for a spin.
- Not too sure on the koptas part. They cannot benefit from the two orders which help them most, as they are neither infantry nor mounted


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Beardedragon wrote:
Annoyingly the battlewagon only has firing deck 11 too, which is even lower than the trukks 12, for reasons unknown.

One of my opponents probably has complained to GW about me setting his units on fire with 16 burnas and 4 KMB from a wagon

By adding the mek buff, you could to some pretty stupid things with a wagon, and it would absolutely have broken the new tankbustas.

Currently im loading my trukks with tankbustas and shokk attack guns, because i lack Lootas. That and 1 big mek in mega armor with KFF with 10 flash gitz. But i wonder whats our best shooting unit would be for this detatchment (outside of "Mek Kaptain" enhancement for like 10 flash gitz or what ever shooting unit you want).

Same as always - lootas or tankbustas with SAG and maybe shoota boyz with KMB mek or warbikers with wartrike. Mek guns and kill rigs are good in any detachment. Everything else is made of paper or doesn't shoot well enough.

 Jidmah wrote:
I love everything about that detachment.

Thoughts (not going to repeat Tomsug's great ideas)
- one order is guaranteed to succeed, two orders have a 27.77% failure chance on a warboss and a 41.66% failure chance on meks, and there is no way to re-roll it outside of crusade. You should only double up on taktiks if you are desperate.
- MA leaders do not increase a unit's toughness
- You can give orders right after disembarking or arriving from reserves, but not when using rapid ingress.
- Badrukk is back, except he now can wear MA, a KFF and brings back a flash git every turn. You think 285 points is too expensive for this? Sorry, can't hear you over all that dakka.
- Some of you gitz can relive the glory times of 5th by infiltrating a MA warboss with kommandoz.
- A unit of kommadoz lead by a beastboss can ride in a kill rig or hunta rig. Make of that what you want.
- I think kommandoz gain a lot from being lead by a regular warboss, but I'm not sure it's the best place to put a warboss. Nobz and breaka boyz are just much better units...
- A Wartrike can buff its unit of warbikers with +1 to ranged hit and/or stealth and cover, which might be just enough to make them viable.
- Stealthy squighogs seem like a huge pain in the rear for opponents.
- Both warbikers and hogs benefit greatly from the fall back, shoot&charge stratagem.
- While heavy does not stack, SAG and lootas can still use Shoota Drills to move and shoot at full power or to get through a -1 to hit unit
- Probably obvious, but Thrakka can give orders.
- From my experience with crusade, I can tell you that shoota boyz lead a big mek with +1 to hit is not something to be taken lightly.
- Tankbustas might only have use for the stealth/cover taktiks, but their leader can still buff a nearby unit.
- The stratagems can easily turn the tide of a game if applied correctly. You absolutely need two units of gretchin to have enough CP.
- Having sustained and lethal hits available as a stratagem allows you to bring a hammer unit or two, but your army probably needs to be a bit more shooting oriented than bully boyz or warhorde. Finding out the right mix of units will take some iterations.
- While I could field 6 units of storm boyz now, I see no reason why I should. The detachment doesn't do a whole lot for them, so I see no use to bring them outside of 1 or 2 for action monkey things. When not playing competitive missions, I'd probably not bring them at all unless Zagstrukk gets taken for a spin.
- Not too sure on the koptas part. They cannot benefit from the two orders which help them most, as they are neither infantry nor mounted


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Beardedragon wrote:
Annoyingly the battlewagon only has firing deck 11 too, which is even lower than the trukks 12, for reasons unknown.

One of my opponents probably has complained to GW about me setting his units on fire with 16 burnas and 4 KMB from a wagon

By adding the mek buff, you could to some pretty stupid things with a wagon, and it would absolutely have broken the new tankbustas.

Currently im loading my trukks with tankbustas and shokk attack guns, because i lack Lootas. That and 1 big mek in mega armor with KFF with 10 flash gitz. But i wonder whats our best shooting unit would be for this detatchment (outside of "Mek Kaptain" enhancement for like 10 flash gitz or what ever shooting unit you want).

Same as always - lootas or tankbustas with SAG and maybe shoota boyz with KMB mek or warbikers with wartrike. Mek guns and kill rigs are good in any detachment. Everything else is made of paper or doesn't shoot well enough.

Wait what? Why can kommandos ride a rig just because the beastboss has beastsnagga keyword? They still dont have it. I would assume it works in the same way as why the Wartrike cant go through walls even though he follows kommandos around who are infantry. Because their own individual keywords still matter?

I do think it sounds interesting to add +1 to hit and maybe strength or stealth for warbikers sound interesting with a wartrike. A good block you need to get through which isnt overly too expensive i think. Maybe.

Shooty boys oh boy. Ive never even considered those. Is it good? Dunno. Maybe? I only have like 30 shooty boys out of my 100 boys already, thats how few editions since i started (8th) they have been useful to me. Many are not even painted. The problem i have with shoota boys is their lack of assault keyword on their shootas. it sounds difficult to get to the rapid fire point.


Other good things to be mentioned:
If you give 2 orders from a Big mek in mega armor to 10 flash gitz and you fail, you can immiediately ressurect your dead Flash Git as both things happen in the command phase. Making it almost effortless to always have 2 orders on your 10 flash gitz.

I wonder if 3 rigs and 30 beastsnagga boys with beastbosses is a good thing with reroll charges and +1 strength, with +1 additional strength from the rigs. I dont know how many points you have left for shooty units though, and this detatchment seem to definitely favor a lot of shooting and some melee, as otherwise you almost might as well play war horde.

I wonder if having 60 stormboys is a good thing simply for the entire army of 12" advance and charge + potentially reroll charges models you can have. Its not like the enemy can properly screen this out at all. Of course finding 6 characters who are nearby is a problem as they cant have a character following them.



Are you allowed to throw both 2 squig bombs from tankbustas in a row, or do you need to throw one, wait a turn, then throw the last? It simply says you can throw squig bombs twice per game.

No, Jidmah is correct.

They pool all the keywords, they don't lose them.

Same reason mek guns count as infantry and vehicles for the purposes of anti if i recall correctly when joined by a SAG.

I might be wrong, i think it's in the core rules leaders joining. But i need to go check it out.

Yes you can throw both, it's once per battle if i recall. Your issue isn't the the throwing it's if you advance you can't throw since it requires a normal move.

Beardedragon wrote:
Wait what? Why can kommandos ride a rig just because the beastboss has beastsnagga keyword? They still dont have it. I would assume it works in the same way as why the Wartrike cant go through walls even though he follows kommandos around who are infantry. Because their own individual keywords still matter?

You are probably right on this one. Eh.

Shooty boys oh boy. Ive never even considered those. Is it good? Dunno. Maybe? I only have like 30 shooty boys out of my 100 boys already, thats how few editions since i started (8th) they have been useful to me. Many are not even painted. The problem i have with shoota boys is their lack of assault keyword on their shootas. it sounds difficult to get to the rapid fire point.

They way I always ran them in dread mob is that I usually didn't care about lining up rapid fire. Instead of advancing into 9" range, you just start shooting at 18" and then move closer each turn. Their ability to overwatch isn't bad either, plus you get a free pair of rokkits hitting on 4+ as well.
The only thing you need to get used to is that they are much worse in combat than choppa boyz.

Other good things to be mentioned:
If you give 2 orders from a Big mek in mega armor to 10 flash gitz and you fail, you can immiediately ressurect your dead Flash Git as both things happen in the command phase. Making it almost effortless to always have 2 orders on your 10 flash gitz.

I totally thought the order would fail if you use 2 and not pass the leadership test. Honestly, for d3 damage, I'd always pick stealth+cover in addition to whatever else I want.

I wonder if 3 rigs and 30 beastsnagga boys with beastbosses is a good thing with reroll charges and +1 strength, with +1 additional strength from the rigs. I dont know how many points you have left for shooty units though, and this detatchment seem to definitely favor a lot of shooting and some melee, as otherwise you almost might as well play war horde.

That's 990 points, plenty of room for some flash gits, kommandoz and tank bustas.

I wonder if having 60 stormboys is a good thing simply for the entire army of 12" advance and charge + potentially reroll charges models you can have. Its not like the enemy can properly screen this out at all. Of course finding 6 characters who are nearby is a problem as they cant have a character following them.

You're just gear-checking the enemy though. 60 boyz without a character just aren't scary to most frontline units (+1S or no), they will get in each other's way when charging and most likely die in droves once they are rapid fire range of an enemy army.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Forceride wrote:
No, Jidmah is correct.

They pool all the keywords, they don't lose them.

Same reason mek guns count as infantry and vehicles for the purposes of anti if i recall correctly when joined by a SAG.

No, he is right. I just re-checked. The UNIT pools all the keywords, but the MODELs don't. Transport is explicitly asking for beastsnagga MODELs, which kommandoz are not.

Dread mob, for example, is looking for mek UNITs, so any unit with a mek in it qualifies.

For the same reasons, the mek gun stunt doesn't work either. Taktiks tells us that the MODEL get's +1 to hit if it is infantry, which the guns are not.

Well, guess i was wrong on that, or maybe i miss understood. Well it's just something to be aware. Also touche on the wording on the transports and orders being infantry model. Another gotcha to keep tabs

Disclaimer that I usually play kult of speed in a more casual setting...

Just got in my first game with this detachment and I gotta say, the absolute high of all my shooting hitting on 4s was amazing. And then on top of that being able to pick stealth or reroll charges...

I kinda gambled a bit with two units of kommandos (with snikrot and a megaboss) as far up as possible along with zogrod + grots, but I got first turn and with the free charge rerolls just trapped my opponent in their deployment zone for the whole match. Zogrod's supa grots with taktiks are very funny. Losing D3 models is near meaningless.
I didn't get to try out all the stratagems and I own zero stormboyz but it was still a ton of fun handing out orders and combining squads in new ways.

Bikes with -1 to hit and shoota drills were indeed much more threatening.

Finally, I am very amused by the fact that you can order a Battlewagon to get Skeaky Stalkin' and it is "affected" by it... it just doesn't get a stealth or cover bonus. "Sure ting boss, I'll say shhhh wen I floor it".

Dumb question incoming but i never really used the hunta rigs before.

When you throw snagga boys in to the hunta rig, and you add the full value of its ability to get extra Butcha boyz attacks thats capped at +6, do you get a total amount of 6 attacks, or 10? Like can you only essentially add +2 for a total of 6, or do you add 6, and it has 4 already, for a total of 10?


Which of the two are correct?

Beardedragon wrote:
Dumb question incoming but i never really used the hunta rigs before.

When you throw snagga boys in to the hunta rig, and you add the full value of its ability to get extra Butcha boyz attacks thats capped at +6, do you get a total amount of 6 attacks, or 10? Like can you only essentially add +2 for a total of 6, or do you add 6, and it has 4 already, for a total of 10?


Which of the two are correct?

So you add up to a maximum modifier of 6+ for the extra attacks weapon profile, which means with the base for, would mean a total of 10.

Has anyone field tested the Blood Axes themed Grotmas detachment?

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
Has anyone field tested the Blood Axes themed Grotmas detachment?

Dude, chill. It's been out there for like two days

 Jidmah wrote:

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
Has anyone field tested the Blood Axes themed Grotmas detachment?

Dude, chill. It's been out there for like two days

No. Must play (vicariously, in this case) with all the new toys, immediately Those Dark Angels guys were rebuilding their lists before they finished reading the PDF.

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
Has anyone field tested the Blood Axes themed Grotmas detachment?

I got one game in, just a couple posts up. Was a lot of fun and honestly felt a bit too strong, though I'm used to playing our worst detachment so take from that what you will.

 Lathe Biosas wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
Has anyone field tested the Blood Axes themed Grotmas detachment?

Dude, chill. It's been out there for like two days

No. Must play (vicariously, in this case) with all the new toys, immediately Those Dark Angels guys were rebuilding their lists before they finished reading the PDF.

Building a list takes a couple of minutes, it pretty much builds itself.

Finding all the models though? Takes me almost a day just to figure out where everything is

As I understand, Breaka Boyz / Tankbustas comes in some megabox that is already sold out and became available sometime during the spring or something? Right?

And I have to concur with the Bearddragon that the “6 model unit” is pretty stupid count not compatible with rules around. Any good idea why GW did this?

 Tomsug wrote:
As I understand, Breaka Boyz / Tankbustas comes in some megabox that is already sold out and became available sometime during the spring or something? Right?

They were part of the last kill team starter box. Honestly, I think GW did this the right way. A kill team box comes with a ton of extra stuff that 40k players don't need, so releasing the rules later helps with the target audience actually getting the box. Rattlings aren't marines, unless you can split the box with someone interested in them, it's not a bargain anyways.

And I have to concur with the Bearddragon that the “6 model unit” is pretty stupid count not compatible with rules around. Any good idea why GW did this?

Most new units so far are either 2x3 models, 2x5 models or 2x10 models. I'm rather happy to have 6 in one box rather than 2x3. It's (slightly) cheaper to buy, you have less identical models, more options and no min unit shenanigans to worry about.
The reason why they did it? I more likely related to sprue space or sculpting problems than anything else. The other possibility is that the nob was planned as a character (it doesn't really match either unit aesthetically), but scratched by the rules team, similar to the nob on smasha squig.

I don' t believe the 6man squad has anything todo wih the spruce etc. You will not taran the game because of “hey, there is some space on the sprue left”.

Your second explanation seems to be better, but not the main reason.

With all the transport rules ready for 5man squads + char the 6 man squad breaks the ecosystem.

There is definitely something deeper behind. It is eihter deeper intent - part of the whole new story of “let' s change it all” - look at the Koptas, or Squigriders that are 3/6 too.

Or some marvelous human error.

Is there some resizing of the squads visible un other armies too? Because if yes, than my giess is this is a prep for new squad logic in 11th edition.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
My paranoic mind also adds “they make it 6 to make it uneffective to simply convert nobz to new units”

Personally I don’t thing it has anything to do with rules. Design Team created the squad and it just so happened that 6 models fit on the sprue. Afterwards rules writers just had to work with what they got. We heard from several sources in the past that's exactly how GW works, Designs come first, rules are a second thought and rely on what the sprues give them, with the framework since 9th throwing anything out that's not on the sprue of that unit.

Half the primaris range and many chaos elite units are squads of 3 or 6. If MANz didn't come with an option to build a big mek, you can bet your choppa that no other squad size other than 3 or 6 would be legal either.

I also don't think ork transports are being designed around two 5 man squads+character, but rather providing enough space to fit either 10 boyz+2 or 5 MANz+1 units.
In general, rules are changed to match new models, not the other way around.

Calling it "breaking the ecosystem" is a bit of an overreaction anyways, don't you think? Both a unit of tank bustas and breaka boyz can absolutely ride any of our transports after being joined by a character, even a naut.
The thing that's actually bugging you is not being able maximize efficiency by fitting two units with character support in one trukk.

It is absolutely no drama at all. Just interesting. Maybe it’ s just a Headology formed by the previous edditons with the breaking point on 5 models units all round the ork army and pressing the size of the units to 5 because of the blast, despite the fact they could have been 6.

However, the transport capacity is an issue little bit. The logic I see is you either have 2 small / 1 big unit Transporr or 4 small / 2 big /1 huge units Transport.


Now if you take 2 BBs with char, you have 14 models, 8 left so you cannot enither fit one big nor 2 small ones. That is the breaking of the system I see. Big problem? I doubt. Meaningless restriction? Definitely.

Marry Orkmas and happy new Waaaaaaagh!

 Lathe Biosas wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
Has anyone field tested the Blood Axes themed Grotmas detachment?

Dude, chill. It's been out there for like two days

No. Must play (vicariously, in this case) with all the new toys, immediately Those Dark Angels guys were rebuilding their lists before they finished reading the PDF.

So finally got a game in. Ironically, I was facing the new Dark Angels played by a veteran.

The good:
- Snikrot going up to S8 during the Waaagh! was a game changer, he just plowed through those marines. He and his unit benefit from re-roll to charges and +1S immensely, and I actually used the ranged buff in T1 to get a BS4+ rokkit shot off.
- Tank bustas with SAG, pulsa rokkit and dakka buff wiped out the the remaining knights and their librarian. You absolutely need to hide these in a trukk. As soon as they were out in the open my opponent targeted them with every spare shot he could, and they bled models fast. Same statline as flash gits, after all.
- Flash gits with MA mek were extremely difficult to shift for my opponent while he had his face full of kommandos, and being able to resurrect the casualties inflicted by failed taktiks is gold. Despite being a bad target for them due to -1 damage and 2+, they still wiped 3 deathwing knights.
- The move after fall back stratagem is gold. As the ravenwing had a lot of fall back shenanigans, being able to move 6" during my opponent's turn messed up a lot of shots and charges for him.
- Squig riders with stealth and permanent cover were nigh invincible... until I failed a spectacular 17 saves in a row with exactly zero successful feel no pain rolls.
- Fall back and shoot/charge is very valuable on kommandoz and squigs to move past screens and wipe out valuable targets, and a death sentence for anyone foolish enough to try fight flash gits in combat
- I regularly had situations where +1S improved the wound roll, it's much more useful than I originally though and stacks incredibly well with the Waaagh!
- The detachment isn't super CP hungry, most power comes from the taktiks. Yet, not bringing at least one unit of gretchin was a mistake.

The meh:
- The detachment had literally no impact on stormboys during the game. They did win me the game by deep striking onto objectives, screening out terminators and then dying slow enough to score 15 VP. Not having a character with them seriously lowers their utility in this detachment. There was no unit
- The sustained/lethal stragem is nice but doesn't really match what my army was trying to do. I used it once and it felt like a waste compared to just grenading the target.
- My warbikers got oath'ed turn one and obliterated before doing anything. Due to the stealth/cover buff it took all of the dark angel's big guns to do so, but it's hard to judge a unit from that.


The bad
- I had a unit of shoota boyz with Ufthak and Weird boy for deep strike shenanigans, but the lack of AP and fighting power didn't add up well. My opponent realized their weakness and just kept me stuck in combat while neutering the unit with the -1 to wound -1 to hit stratagem so I could neither kill his deathwing dread nor ravenwing speeder. Warboss/Big Mek is probably a much better unit composition for them.
- The enhancement for adding a warboss to a unit of kommandoz was fun, but didn't do much in the end. Kommadoz lack the punch of nobz or beastsnaggas, so despite the +1 to hit buff they struggled to put relevant damage into any marine unit.
- Removing kommadoz or stormboyz from the board was pretty useless, as your opponent can shut it down by tagging them and snikrot does it better.


In general, taktiks are definitely powerful, but very much a double-edged sword. The damage caused by the mortal wounds penalty can quickly cause significant casualties to expensive units, and opponent can use otherwise useless forced battleshock tests to switch off your sneaky protection.

For those facing the new Dark Angels detachment, be aware of some pitfalls:
- All dreads are deathwing. Any unit lead by a named character is deathwing. Speeders and Planes are ravenwing. If they are decent players, they will used these units to trigger their extremely powerful stratagems.
- Speaking of stratagems, make Azrael a priority target. Fighting against that guaranteed extra CP is an uphill battle.
- Be aware of the ravenwing command squad. The benefit immensely from the outrider buff and will plow through a unit of nob profiles as if they were gretchin.