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This stuff is cool, but I fear a bit costly and the 6th man makes Trukks tricky with characters. Very curious how they end up competing with Nobz and Gitz respectfully. I doubt we'll really get to find out until multiple copies are more wildly available, but I'm excited to see they've definitely got a place.

I think personally I'd stay with the double Rokkit pistols on the Nob, and take the Pulsa Rokkit. The extra Rokkit every turn from the Nob and the option to deebuff a really hard target feels like it outweighs a few melee swings from a hammer.

I really like the look of a Warboss with the breakas, just for the +1 to hit. Take all smash hammas and a tankhamma, hit on essentially everything, then it's coin flips to wound. The AP-2 isn't incredible, don't get me wrong, but against really hard targets it's more coin flips to save. Then the Warboss gets his own attacks.

The Tankbustas definitely now have a home again as our general purpose ranged anti tank unit. Bustas do tanks, Burnas do hordes, and Gitz and Lootas are a more general purpose unit.

I'll need someone smarter than me to do that maths on Breaka Boyz, but they look pretty good on paper to me at the moment.

I'm just happy that the kit, although originally designed for Kill Team, isn't the smorgasbord of weird "if you have 10 models, 1 model gets to have *blank*" equipment for a bunch of the stuff that's in the kit that has no meaningful synergy that a lot of the Kill Team units are sometimes plagued by.

The fact that both units were separated as different datasheets is a god(gork?) send since it makes them do what they're supposed to do versus the schizophrenic build that they forced them to be with the old metal/resin models.

Where are the rules for the new Orks?
Are they app-only for now?

 JNAProductions wrote:
Where are the rules for the new Orks?
Are they app-only for now?

Yeah. Seems like for WarCom they want to space out the reveal but the datasheet itself was in the App build so its just there. There's not even points in the MFM.

 LunarSol wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:
Where are the rules for the new Orks?
Are they app-only for now?

Yeah. Seems like for WarCom they want to space out the reveal but the datasheet itself was in the App build so its just there. There's not even points in the MFM.

Gorch. I can be patient to learn.
Thanks for the knowledge.

Compared to nobz or meganobz....not sure if breaka boyz are that great.

Base 2 attacks. Uh, okay. How is this better than twin linked killsaws? Bomb squigs I guess.

The knucklebustas look really cool but you can only take 1.

Not a nob unit, doesn't qualify for bully boys without a warboss. Eh?

Regular tankbustas seem much more interesting. +1 to hit and wound is sick at least. But then you're forced to take two rokkit pistols, the advantage of which escapes me. Rokkit launcha also just says blast, not heavy, and it hits on 5's, so perma 4+ to hit is very nice by work standards. That seems to be the obvious winner to me. You could fit a mek in the unit

Big Mek's weapons and ability seem to synergize with them well, allowing them to move through terrain and get rerolls to 1s which is much better with a 4+.

Tankbustas are also priced much better.

https://www.reddit.com/r/orks/comments/1hbt85b/tankbustas_datasheet/#lightbox

https://www.reddit.com/r/orks/comments/1hbt6k3/breaka_boyz_datasheet/

I am also leaning into tankbustas, i am looking at using them inside trucks with a retinue of nobz, 6d3+blast? At 120pts? 2 bomb squigs? 2W? S+ 4? shut up and take my money!

While wreckas are nice their way more expensive then nobz and are specialized while nobz are generalist.

Also it's competing for the warboss for the +1, it is also competing with meganobz with twin link saws, and those only cost 35pts more and are far more durable...

Btw using squigs on a unit that wants to advance is a pain...

Dunno where the wreckas will land, i can see play on Dread Waagghh, combo for re-roll advance and re-roll charge and -2 on crit.

Dunno, at best wreckas would need to cost close to Nobz to even compete.

It's funny because this is the weapon profile squig riders should have..

 Forceride wrote:

Dunno, at best wreckas would need to cost close to Nobz to even compete..

They're just a bit more than 2 ppm more, but its definitely significant. Dropping them 10 points would make it a closer contest for sure, maybe even as low as 125.

 TedNugent wrote:
Compared to nobz or meganobz....not sure if breaka boyz are that great.

Base 2 attacks. Uh, okay. How is this better than twin linked killsaws? Bomb squigs I guess.

The knucklebustas look really cool but you can only take 1.

Not a nob unit, doesn't qualify for bully boys without a warboss. Eh?

Regular tankbustas seem much more interesting. +1 to hit and wound is sick at least. But then you're forced to take two rokkit pistols, the advantage of which escapes me. Rokkit launcha also just says blast, not heavy, and it hits on 5's, so perma 4+ to hit is very nice by work standards. That seems to be the obvious winner to me. You could fit a mek in the unit

Big Mek's weapons and ability seem to synergize with them well, allowing them to move through terrain and get rerolls to 1s which is much better with a 4+.

Tankbustas are also priced much better.

https://www.reddit.com/r/orks/comments/1hbt85b/tankbustas_datasheet/#lightbox

https://www.reddit.com/r/orks/comments/1hbt6k3/breaka_boyz_datasheet/

Breakas are pretty good, in Warhorde. They are better at busting Veh/Mon in melee than Nobz with Klaws by a big margin. They arent impacted by -1 to wound vs those targets, arent as badly hurt with a -1 as Nobz are and -1 damage doesnt cripple their output by half them like it does with Klawz. With Unbridled Carnage on a Waaagh! they get 21 hits with a Wabosses +1 which vs a standard T9+ 2+ save Veh/Monster, that equals 10 wounds, 5 failed saves for 15 damage, 10 if its -1 damage. Thats before we add D3 MWs from a Bomb Squig or the Warbosses 9 attacks. Nobz can only dream of that level of krumpin. Nobz shine more in Bullboyz where Breakas dont really have a home as they dont have the Nob keyword and Tankbustas beat them in Dreadmob. Breakas also have a place in Kult of Speed with Fasta than Yooz, not that Kult of Speed really exists as a viable detachment. They also synergise with a Weirdboy and 'Ere We Go. P.S Knuckle-bustas suck, trading AP2 and Damage 3 for 3 addtional attacks with twin-linked isnt worth it, its kind of a trap option. 5 Smasha Hammers and a Tank Hammer should be the default loadout.

The best Big Mek for Tankbustas is actually the SAG Mek, cheaper, does more reliable damage and the Shokk-boosta isnt really needed on them, they shouldnt be advancing and will general live in a Trukk until its time to disembark. Moving through terrain is a zero factor for Infantry as is unless its physically impassible which doesnt tend to exist with ruins.

Rokkit Pistols have been improved, they are now Str 9 AP 2 and Damage 3 with 2 shots instead of 1 twin-linked. Within 12" a unit of Bustas is throwing out 5d3+2 Rokkits (5 are Blast if you arent gunning for their intended target) and D3 MWs from a Bomb Squig. There is no reason to take a Smasha Hamma on the Boss. Paired with a Pulsa you are looking at Str 10 AP 3, a Gitfindas for Ignores Cover and Bigger Shellz for +1 Damage. Rokkits havent been Heavy for the faction for a long while.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Forceride wrote:
I am also leaning into tankbustas, i am looking at using them inside trucks with a retinue of nobz, 6d3+blast? At 120pts? 2 bomb squigs? 2W? S+ 4? shut up and take my money!

While wreckas are nice their way more expensive then nobz and are specialized while nobz are generalist.

Also it's competing for the warboss for the +1, it is also competing with meganobz with twin link saws, and those only cost 35pts more and are far more durable...

Btw using squigs on a unit that wants to advance is a pain...

Dunno where the wreckas will land, i can see play on Dread Waagghh, combo for re-roll advance and re-roll charge and -2 on crit.

Dunno, at best wreckas would need to cost close to Nobz to even compete.

It's funny because this is the weapon profile squig riders should have..

Whilst Nobz are generlists they really shruggle when things start applying modifiers which doesnt impact Breakas as much. -1 to hit puts Nobz back onto 4s to hit, -1 to wound especially from a T10 tank or monster is horrific even during a Waaagh turn, turning them to 5s to wound or 6s vs anything T11+, -1 Damage makes them anemic. Where they surpass Breakas is volume, they have close to a 3rd more attacks which when needed are str 10, they are generally more tougher with the -1 to wound with the Warboss (but they still drop like flies whenever someone genuinely wants them gone).

You can probably rely on Breakas to take out a tough target, you cant ask the same with Nobz who are more suited for dominating heavy infantry and Marines. With Unbridled Carnage a Tank Hammer alone on a Waaagh! turn on average kicks out 2 dev wounds at Damage 3 by itself, you add a Bomb Squig and thats 8MWs. Thats Beastboss territory. Will I take them? No, I run Dreadmob where Tankbustas really shine, but I can see them as a common pick for Warhorde.

Also the Pulsa Rokkit is probably the better pick for Bustas. +1 Str and AP on the units (including attached Big Meks) ranged weapons once per game is better than d3 extra blast shots. Str 10 is a big break point for many vehicles and monster, and AP 3 Rokkit (especially with Ignore Cover) puts most tanks on a 6+ save, or 5+ if they are rocking a 2+ save. Thats way more value than an extra Rokkit Launcha.

How'd you guys fare after the update?

 deffrekka wrote:

 TedNugent wrote:
Compared to nobz or meganobz....not sure if breaka boyz are that great.

Base 2 attacks. Uh, okay. How is this better than twin linked killsaws? Bomb squigs I guess.

The knucklebustas look really cool but you can only take 1.

Not a nob unit, doesn't qualify for bully boys without a warboss. Eh?

Regular tankbustas seem much more interesting. +1 to hit and wound is sick at least. But then you're forced to take two rokkit pistols, the advantage of which escapes me. Rokkit launcha also just says blast, not heavy, and it hits on 5's, so perma 4+ to hit is very nice by work standards. That seems to be the obvious winner to me. You could fit a mek in the unit

Big Mek's weapons and ability seem to synergize with them well, allowing them to move through terrain and get rerolls to 1s which is much better with a 4+.

Tankbustas are also priced much better.

https://www.reddit.com/r/orks/comments/1hbt85b/tankbustas_datasheet/#lightbox

https://www.reddit.com/r/orks/comments/1hbt6k3/breaka_boyz_datasheet/

Breakas are pretty good, in Warhorde. They are better at busting Veh/Mon in melee than Nobz with Klaws by a big margin. They arent impacted by -1 to wound vs those targets, arent as badly hurt with a -1 as Nobz are and -1 damage doesnt cripple their output by half them like it does with Klawz. With Unbridled Carnage on a Waaagh! they get 21 hits with a Wabosses +1 which vs a standard T9+ 2+ save Veh/Monster, that equals 10 wounds, 5 failed saves for 15 damage, 10 if its -1 damage. Thats before we add D3 MWs from a Bomb Squig or the Warbosses 9 attacks. Nobz can only dream of that level of krumpin. Nobz shine more in Bullboyz where Breakas dont really have a home as they dont have the Nob keyword and Tankbustas beat them in Dreadmob. Breakas also have a place in Kult of Speed with Fasta than Yooz, not that Kult of Speed really exists as a viable detachment. They also synergise with a Weirdboy and 'Ere We Go. P.S Knuckle-bustas suck, trading AP2 and Damage 3 for 3 addtional attacks with twin-linked isnt worth it, its kind of a trap option. 5 Smasha Hammers and a Tank Hammer should be the default loadout.

The best Big Mek for Tankbustas is actually the SAG Mek, cheaper, does more reliable damage and the Shokk-boosta isnt really needed on them, they shouldnt be advancing and will general live in a Trukk until its time to disembark. Moving through terrain is a zero factor for Infantry as is unless its physically impassible which doesnt tend to exist with ruins.

Rokkit Pistols have been improved, they are now Str 9 AP 2 and Damage 3 with 2 shots instead of 1 twin-linked. Within 12" a unit of Bustas is throwing out 5d3+2 Rokkits (5 are Blast if you arent gunning for their intended target) and D3 MWs from a Bomb Squig. There is no reason to take a Smasha Hamma on the Boss. Paired with a Pulsa you are looking at Str 10 AP 3, a Gitfindas for Ignores Cover and Bigger Shellz for +1 Damage. Rokkits havent been Heavy for the faction for a long while.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Forceride wrote:
I am also leaning into tankbustas, i am looking at using them inside trucks with a retinue of nobz, 6d3+blast? At 120pts? 2 bomb squigs? 2W? S+ 4? shut up and take my money!

While wreckas are nice their way more expensive then nobz and are specialized while nobz are generalist.

Also it's competing for the warboss for the +1, it is also competing with meganobz with twin link saws, and those only cost 35pts more and are far more durable...

Btw using squigs on a unit that wants to advance is a pain...

Dunno where the wreckas will land, i can see play on Dread Waagghh, combo for re-roll advance and re-roll charge and -2 on crit.

Dunno, at best wreckas would need to cost close to Nobz to even compete.

It's funny because this is the weapon profile squig riders should have..

Whilst Nobz are generlists they really shruggle when things start applying modifiers which doesnt impact Breakas as much. -1 to hit puts Nobz back onto 4s to hit, -1 to wound especially from a T10 tank or monster is horrific even during a Waaagh turn, turning them to 5s to wound or 6s vs anything T11+, -1 Damage makes them anemic. Where they surpass Breakas is volume, they have close to a 3rd more attacks which when needed are str 10, they are generally more tougher with the -1 to wound with the Warboss (but they still drop like flies whenever someone genuinely wants them gone).

You can probably rely on Breakas to take out a tough target, you cant ask the same with Nobz who are more suited for dominating heavy infantry and Marines. With Unbridled Carnage a Tank Hammer alone on a Waaagh! turn on average kicks out 2 dev wounds at Damage 3 by itself, you add a Bomb Squig and thats 8MWs. Thats Beastboss territory. Will I take them? No, I run Dreadmob where Tankbustas really shine, but I can see them as a common pick for Warhorde.

Also the Pulsa Rokkit is probably the better pick for Bustas. +1 Str and AP on the units (including attached Big Meks) ranged weapons once per game is better than d3 extra blast shots. Str 10 is a big break point for many vehicles and monster, and AP 3 Rokkit (especially with Ignore Cover) puts most tanks on a 6+ save, or 5+ if they are rocking a 2+ save. Thats way more value than an extra Rokkit Launcha.

Going to have to burst your bubble a bit, i am fairly aware of those short comings from nobz, all you are saying is true.. this is something some of you were discussing a while back but i choose not to intervene because the answer has already been provided multiple times:

Use the right tool for the right job, there are multiple units that can deal with high T which have proven themselves, from beast boss with beast snagas, warp tower from kill rig, ghaz aura during waggh and ghaz himself, mek gun with S12, even dread claws are S12, my favorite is to just pack 5 meganobz with double killsaw with a warboss inside a truck, by all means, try doge that with out screening.. You have gorkas and morkas claw and if you really want to go dread wagghh there is plenty of strats there to deal with high T.

Nobz aren't a answer to high T, if you have to do that, that's because your desperate and there aren't better targets. But their really useful against elite infantry, chaff and a very big threat against characters(funny because you agree with me on this), you can also provide them with tools like i mentioned before, where they can reach S11 during waggh or lethals (ever seen 10 nobz + boss with lethals and sustained with crits on 5? I can tell you i deleted more then 400 points that turn). Unless i see a meta of heavy vehicle, where every one is T12 i will not consider them much. What i do see is bricks of elite units where claws are lot more useful, i see one or another tough vehicle where my beast boss tags them and my meganobz just go make friends.

Frankly, i am more concerned with screens and shooting, have you ever fought an IG or DG? God DG are a pain in the ass to deal with melee and wreckas have nothing into that match! Has for the pulsa rokkit, pretty sure you can't use it inside trucks. My idea is to use tankbustas inside the truks as chaff clear and potentially pop them out if a target of opportunity presents itself. They will probably never leave the trucks, and if they do it's to pop double squig shoot and run back in if they don't die.. so i kinda value the extra rocket for more shots, their going to replace flashgitz in my lists, the ladz have been under performing.

Anyway i hate talking of hypothetical perfect situations, those are rare, the situations that you mention are not common, and if you walked into those, is because mistakes were made. I will wait and see where the wreckas land but i am not convinced. For all i know, meta might shift to high T, but i been here since the start and i haven't seen any signs yet.

Also it sounds like your local is heavy on vehicles, mine is shooting heavy... high T is the least of my problems lol.

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
How'd you guys fare after the update?

We get to Waaagh! when we want to Waaagh! and that's really all that matters.

 Forceride wrote:

 deffrekka wrote:

 TedNugent wrote:
Compared to nobz or meganobz....not sure if breaka boyz are that great.

Base 2 attacks. Uh, okay. How is this better than twin linked killsaws? Bomb squigs I guess.

The knucklebustas look really cool but you can only take 1.

Not a nob unit, doesn't qualify for bully boys without a warboss. Eh?

Regular tankbustas seem much more interesting. +1 to hit and wound is sick at least. But then you're forced to take two rokkit pistols, the advantage of which escapes me. Rokkit launcha also just says blast, not heavy, and it hits on 5's, so perma 4+ to hit is very nice by work standards. That seems to be the obvious winner to me. You could fit a mek in the unit

Big Mek's weapons and ability seem to synergize with them well, allowing them to move through terrain and get rerolls to 1s which is much better with a 4+.

Tankbustas are also priced much better.

https://www.reddit.com/r/orks/comments/1hbt85b/tankbustas_datasheet/#lightbox

https://www.reddit.com/r/orks/comments/1hbt6k3/breaka_boyz_datasheet/

Breakas are pretty good, in Warhorde. They are better at busting Veh/Mon in melee than Nobz with Klaws by a big margin. They arent impacted by -1 to wound vs those targets, arent as badly hurt with a -1 as Nobz are and -1 damage doesnt cripple their output by half them like it does with Klawz. With Unbridled Carnage on a Waaagh! they get 21 hits with a Wabosses +1 which vs a standard T9+ 2+ save Veh/Monster, that equals 10 wounds, 5 failed saves for 15 damage, 10 if its -1 damage. Thats before we add D3 MWs from a Bomb Squig or the Warbosses 9 attacks. Nobz can only dream of that level of krumpin. Nobz shine more in Bullboyz where Breakas dont really have a home as they dont have the Nob keyword and Tankbustas beat them in Dreadmob. Breakas also have a place in Kult of Speed with Fasta than Yooz, not that Kult of Speed really exists as a viable detachment. They also synergise with a Weirdboy and 'Ere We Go. P.S Knuckle-bustas suck, trading AP2 and Damage 3 for 3 addtional attacks with twin-linked isnt worth it, its kind of a trap option. 5 Smasha Hammers and a Tank Hammer should be the default loadout.

The best Big Mek for Tankbustas is actually the SAG Mek, cheaper, does more reliable damage and the Shokk-boosta isnt really needed on them, they shouldnt be advancing and will general live in a Trukk until its time to disembark. Moving through terrain is a zero factor for Infantry as is unless its physically impassible which doesnt tend to exist with ruins.

Rokkit Pistols have been improved, they are now Str 9 AP 2 and Damage 3 with 2 shots instead of 1 twin-linked. Within 12" a unit of Bustas is throwing out 5d3+2 Rokkits (5 are Blast if you arent gunning for their intended target) and D3 MWs from a Bomb Squig. There is no reason to take a Smasha Hamma on the Boss. Paired with a Pulsa you are looking at Str 10 AP 3, a Gitfindas for Ignores Cover and Bigger Shellz for +1 Damage. Rokkits havent been Heavy for the faction for a long while.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Forceride wrote:
I am also leaning into tankbustas, i am looking at using them inside trucks with a retinue of nobz, 6d3+blast? At 120pts? 2 bomb squigs? 2W? S+ 4? shut up and take my money!

While wreckas are nice their way more expensive then nobz and are specialized while nobz are generalist.

Also it's competing for the warboss for the +1, it is also competing with meganobz with twin link saws, and those only cost 35pts more and are far more durable...

Btw using squigs on a unit that wants to advance is a pain...

Dunno where the wreckas will land, i can see play on Dread Waagghh, combo for re-roll advance and re-roll charge and -2 on crit.

Dunno, at best wreckas would need to cost close to Nobz to even compete.

It's funny because this is the weapon profile squig riders should have..

Whilst Nobz are generlists they really shruggle when things start applying modifiers which doesnt impact Breakas as much. -1 to hit puts Nobz back onto 4s to hit, -1 to wound especially from a T10 tank or monster is horrific even during a Waaagh turn, turning them to 5s to wound or 6s vs anything T11+, -1 Damage makes them anemic. Where they surpass Breakas is volume, they have close to a 3rd more attacks which when needed are str 10, they are generally more tougher with the -1 to wound with the Warboss (but they still drop like flies whenever someone genuinely wants them gone).

You can probably rely on Breakas to take out a tough target, you cant ask the same with Nobz who are more suited for dominating heavy infantry and Marines. With Unbridled Carnage a Tank Hammer alone on a Waaagh! turn on average kicks out 2 dev wounds at Damage 3 by itself, you add a Bomb Squig and thats 8MWs. Thats Beastboss territory. Will I take them? No, I run Dreadmob where Tankbustas really shine, but I can see them as a common pick for Warhorde.

Also the Pulsa Rokkit is probably the better pick for Bustas. +1 Str and AP on the units (including attached Big Meks) ranged weapons once per game is better than d3 extra blast shots. Str 10 is a big break point for many vehicles and monster, and AP 3 Rokkit (especially with Ignore Cover) puts most tanks on a 6+ save, or 5+ if they are rocking a 2+ save. Thats way more value than an extra Rokkit Launcha.

Going to have to burst your bubble a bit, i am fairly aware of those short comings from nobz, all you are saying is true.. this is something some of you were discussing a while back but i choose not to intervene because the answer has already been provided multiple times:

Use the right tool for the right job, there are multiple units that can deal with high T which have proven themselves, from beast boss with beast snagas, warp tower from kill rig, ghaz aura during waggh and ghaz himself, mek gun with S12, even dread claws are S12, my favorite is to just pack 5 meganobz with double killsaw with a warboss inside a truck, by all means, try doge that with out screening.. You have gorkas and morkas claw and if you really want to go dread wagghh there is plenty of strats there to deal with high T.

Nobz aren't a answer to high T, if you have to do that, that's because your desperate and there aren't better targets. But their really useful against elite infantry, chaff and a very big threat against characters(funny because you agree with me on this), you can also provide them with tools like i mentioned before, where they can reach S11 during waggh or lethals (ever seen 10 nobz + boss with lethals and sustained with crits on 5? I can tell you i deleted more then 400 points that turn). Unless i see a meta of heavy vehicle, where every one is T12 i will not consider them much. What i do see is bricks of elite units where claws are lot more useful, i see one or another tough vehicle where my beast boss tags them and my meganobz just go make friends.

Frankly, i am more concerned with screens and shooting, have you ever fought an IG or DG? God DG are a pain in the ass to deal with melee and wreckas have nothing into that match! Has for the pulsa rokkit, pretty sure you can't use it inside trucks. My idea is to use tankbustas inside the truks as chaff clear and potentially pop them out if a target of opportunity presents itself. They will probably never leave the trucks, and if they do it's to pop double squig shoot and run back in if they don't die.. so i kinda value the extra rocket for more shots, their going to replace flashgitz in my lists, the ladz have been under performing.

Anyway i hate talking of hypothetical perfect situations, those are rare, the situations that you mention are not common, and if you walked into those, is because mistakes were made. I will wait and see where the wreckas land but i am not convinced. For all i know, meta might shift to high T, but i been here since the start and i haven't seen any signs yet.

Also it sounds like your local is heavy on vehicles, mine is shooting heavy... high T is the least of my problems lol.

I dont know how you think you are bursting my bubble when I literally do not advocate for using Nobz for tank busting, I play Dreadmob mostly and primarily use Kans, Nauts and Mek led MANz for that role, not Nobz. You must be getting me confused with other people in this forum because I barely frequent this website anymore. Nobz havent been tank killers since vehicles went through the stratosphere in toughness and we were robbed of our historical Str 10 Klaws outside of our Waaagh! turns. Unless im being dumb and blind there is zero ways to make Nobz Str 11 this edition. They are base Str 9 with Klaws, the Waaagh! makes them Str 10. BullyBoyz or Warhorde doesnt have a single thing that increases their weapon strength further. Warbosses, Meks of all kinds, Pain and Weirdboyz do not increase the strength characteristic of their attached unit. Greentide and Kult of Speed definitely do not and Dreadwaaagh's only stratagem that does applies only to Walkers which no matter how big and stompy Nobz are or think they are, they are not that keyword. Id be surprised if Da Big Hunt did, I dont care for that detachment. Actually there is 1 way which I forgot, a Kill Rig's power on a 2+. Are Kill Rigs on the rise? Its pretty god awful in melee and not all that tough. The only way for Nobz to get Lethal is through Ghazghkull (235pts + bodyguard if you bother to try protect him) or attaching a Dreadwaaagh Mek which looses them Da Boss' Ladz ability or rolling a 6 on a Kill Rig... reliable eh. To get Crit 5s it has to be Warhorde, thus you are locked in with the Big man himself, Ghaz. For the record the Ammo Runt only gives Lethal on ranged attacks so lets rule that out right now. So we are talking a whopping 515pts points before a Trukk to get 10 Nobz with a Warboss and Ghaz hoofing it on foot to give them Lethal hits in addition to the detachment ability. Thats 3 units of Breakas with change left over (420pts), who have 6-9 Tank Hammer attacks and 6 Bomb Squigs just to kickstart it.

Lets move on to the next point, the alternatives. Deff Dreads arent great. Lets be real. 120pts nets you 8 Str 13 attacks on the Waaagh!, into a lowly Rhino it does a whooping 9 damage with Lethal or Sustained (trust me I know this pain, I play Deathguard, Sisters and World Eaters routinely). Thats sad. Against any tank with a 2+ save it goes to 6 damage. Make it T12 like a Land Raider and it does 3 damage. It isnt a vehicle/monster killer. Hell mine struggle to kill a squad of Plague Marines without getting lifted in the process. The Kill Rig aint all that reliable, sure it auto hits but its D3 shots, D6 damage and doesnt ignore cover, its a casino cannon. Again against a Rhino it averages 7 damage. Weve identified 2 Ork units that cannot pick up the most basic and universal of dedicated transports. The Beastboss is fine, 6 MWs on average is pretty good, but its the same as a Tank Hammer on a Waaagh! turn so its no longer unique to him, they dont even have to charge and can pop a fight on death in Warhorde. I use MANz quite a lot which im sure all of us do, they have a pretty inherit problem which is their to hit value and their volume of attacks, they are also damage 2, Just like as with Nobz they are pretty susceptible to debuffs, their key benefit that sets them apart is AP3. I dont run double Killsaws, I do Klaw and Saw but thats because often times they dont get to pick where they fight all to well and sometimes they have to brute force their way out of situations.

The problem we have identified is Orkz arent great at killing high toughness units as a faction. We are moving more and more into a vehicle meta. My group consists of Guard, Tau, Nids (crusher stampede) Tsons (Magnus and Predators), DG (Mortarion and Wardogs), WE (Angron and Predators), Votann, all colours of Marines (Usually Lancers and Repulsors), Knights, Sisters (who luckily have now died a death) and Necrons (Doomsday). Every single one of them runs multiple T10 or higher vehicles/monsters. Orkz since their dawn of time have always had issues being shot off the board that isnt something new, this is the only edition I remember where we genuinely struggle to flip tanks, even something as crappy as a Rhino.

Whatever Nobz do, Breakas also do, just on a more condensed scale whilst also teching up into the holes we have already in our army. They are "tool for a job". Are they too expensive? Thats what the community has to figure out with games. 6 Nobz would be 126pts, is 2 Bomb Squigs and Anti whatever worth that extra 14pts (or 35pts between the two actual units). Probably. Will I use them? No, not at the moment. I play Dreadwaaagh! and Tankbustas will rock people socks. If I were to play Warhorde again id be sure to slot Breakas into my list. But I play against a lot of armies that throw out modifiers to statlines and play defensive strats. When you see Nobz bounce off a Redemptor... yeah dont feel too hot.

Sorry to burst your bubble.

P.S I never suggested using the Pulsa from a Trukk, Tankbustas do all their work disembarked within 12". Staying embarked looses them way too much; More Dakka, Tank Hunters, Pulsa Rokkit, Bomb Squigs and Bigger Shellz.

 deffrekka wrote:

I dont know how you think you are bursting my bubble when I literally do not advocate for using Nobz for tank busting, I play Dreadmob mostly and primarily use Kans, Nauts and Mek led MANz for that role, not Nobz. You must be getting me confused with other people in this forum because I barely frequent this website anymore. Nobz havent been tank killers since vehicles went through the stratosphere in toughness and we were robbed of our historical Str 10 Klaws outside of our Waaagh! turns. Unless im being dumb and blind there is zero ways to make Nobz Str 11 this edition. They are base Str 9 with Klaws, the Waaagh! makes them Str 10. BullyBoyz or Warhorde doesnt have a single thing that increases their weapon strength further. Warbosses, Meks of all kinds, Pain and Weirdboyz do not increase the strength characteristic of their attached unit. Greentide and Kult of Speed definitely do not and Dreadwaaagh's only stratagem that does applies only to Walkers which no matter how big and stompy Nobz are or think they are, they are not that keyword. Id be surprised if Da Big Hunt did, I dont care for that detachment. Actually there is 1 way which I forgot, a Kill Rig's power on a 2+. Are Kill Rigs on the rise? Its pretty god awful in melee and not all that tough. The only way for Nobz to get Lethal is through Ghazghkull (235pts + bodyguard if you bother to try protect him) or attaching a Dreadwaaagh Mek which looses them Da Boss' Ladz ability or rolling a 6 on a Kill Rig... reliable eh. To get Crit 5s it has to be Warhorde, thus you are locked in with the Big man himself, Ghaz. For the record the Ammo Runt only gives Lethal on ranged attacks so lets rule that out right now. So we are talking a whopping 515pts points before a Trukk to get 10 Nobz with a Warboss and Ghaz hoofing it on foot to give them Lethal hits in addition to the detachment ability. Thats 3 units of Breakas with change left over (420pts), who have 6-9 Tank Hammer attacks and 6 Bomb Squigs just to kickstart it.

Lets move on to the next point, the alternatives. Deff Dreads arent great. Lets be real. 120pts nets you 8 Str 13 attacks on the Waaagh!, into a lowly Rhino it does a whooping 9 damage with Lethal or Sustained (trust me I know this pain, I play Deathguard, Sisters and World Eaters routinely). Thats sad. Against any tank with a 2+ save it goes to 6 damage. Make it T12 like a Land Raider and it does 3 damage. It isnt a vehicle/monster killer. Hell mine struggle to kill a squad of Plague Marines without getting lifted in the process. The Kill Rig aint all that reliable, sure it auto hits but its D3 shots, D6 damage and doesnt ignore cover, its a casino cannon. Again against a Rhino it averages 7 damage. Weve identified 2 Ork units that cannot pick up the most basic and universal of dedicated transports. The Beastboss is fine, 6 MWs on average is pretty good, but its the same as a Tank Hammer on a Waaagh! turn so its no longer unique to him, they dont even have to charge and can pop a fight on death in Warhorde. I use MANz quite a lot which im sure all of us do, they have a pretty inherit problem which is their to hit value and their volume of attacks, they are also damage 2, Just like as with Nobz they are pretty susceptible to debuffs, their key benefit that sets them apart is AP3. I dont run double Killsaws, I do Klaw and Saw but thats because often times they dont get to pick where they fight all to well and sometimes they have to brute force their way out of situations.

The problem we have identified is Orkz arent great at killing high toughness units as a faction. We are moving more and more into a vehicle meta. My group consists of Guard, Tau, Nids (crusher stampede) Tsons (Magnus and Predators), DG (Mortarion and Wardogs), WE (Angron and Predators), Votann, all colours of Marines (Usually Lancers and Repulsors), Knights, Sisters (who luckily have now died a death) and Necrons (Doomsday). Every single one of them runs multiple T10 or higher vehicles/monsters. Orkz since their dawn of time have always had issues being shot off the board that isnt something new, this is the only edition I remember where we genuinely struggle to flip tanks, even something as crappy as a Rhino.

Whatever Nobz do, Breakas also do, just on a more condensed scale whilst also teching up into the holes we have already in our army. They are "tool for a job". Are they too expensive? Thats what the community has to figure out with games. 6 Nobz would be 126pts, is 2 Bomb Squigs and Anti whatever worth that extra 14pts (or 35pts between the two actual units). Probably. Will I use them? No, not at the moment. I play Dreadwaaagh! and Tankbustas will rock people socks. If I were to play Warhorde again id be sure to slot Breakas into my list. But I play against a lot of armies that throw out modifiers to statlines and play defensive strats. When you see Nobz bounce off a Redemptor... yeah dont feel too hot.

Sorry to burst your bubble.

P.S I never suggested using the Pulsa from a Trukk, Tankbustas do all their work disembarked within 12". Staying embarked looses them way too much; More Dakka, Tank Hunters, Pulsa Rokkit, Bomb Squigs and Bigger Shellz.

Kill rig ability rolls a dice, adds S1+ and lethal on 6 during the fight phase, so yes Nobz can reach 11S. You should stick around we had this discussion long ago

I said most of them are proven, they are options, and yeah deff dread aint good, its still an option, but you can also fill it with rockits punch lethals add strat for bigger shells and full rerolls?Is it worth it? Maybe, up to you. But that does not invalidate it as tool, same with warp tower, it force saves, forcing damage. I am warhorde most of the time, suffice to say i generally saturate hard targets with right profile, i would use 2 warp towers in a single target.

I don't bother with claw on meganobz, they are there to kill high T, also with Ghaz, i walk him with the ladz, i rather have twin linked. Oh btw your going to have the same issue with wreckas into DG, have fun hitting on 5, i generally just drop a strat and make 5 crit. It's irrelevant in end, most DG i saw are building death shroud and elites, so more often then not you will be on 5 and either 4 or 5 into elites. I am not even seeing what your saying in GT.Like i mentioned your meta is heavy tanks so wreckas should work but the minute the meta goes elite which btw that's what i see, you may lack tools. Although, dread waagh is shooting so it might be different into elites.

tanbustas outside trucks against melee in a good terrain layout is just a unit waiting to get charged.. you need to screen it, currently don't have enough for that with out taking somewhere else, besides in my army that's not their role, you can't daka if their dead, it's just waiting to be sniped. Only time i had a issue with high T was at start of edition when i did not know much of the armies and we were all learning.

Honestly if your issue is vehicles just go smash guns from mek gun, put a SAG and job done. 3d3+3 with blast and more important AP-3 plus the SAG. Burn a +1w strat and burn wounds 48' range. He does not come out? Great my grots take the field. I don't even know why wreckas are so important for you in dread waaghh you have plenty of ranged tools for the job. Warhorde depends a bit more, if the GT and meta get's tank heavy then yeah it's a good choice, on the other hand the meta has been mostly elite and wreckas become more secondary, i still think their too expensive seeing as their specialized into a single role, and we already have great tools that can double down into other roles.

I think your just laser focused on that anti-4, i was too with squig hogs, had to realize that was not their role. Anyway i am more excited for tankbustas. But hey maybe i am wrong, prove us by using wrekas on a GT, that will show us, so far i don't see a good case for them.

I just feel like the melee specialized can opener role was already played by dual killsaw meganobz.

I'm really not entirely convinced that that these are a better value for that specialized role of punching tanks in close quarters.

Tankbustas definitely fill a clear niche however, and are vastly improved over their prior iteration, if for no other reason than that they have nob statlines. And of course the datasheet this edition was clearly meant as a placeholder.

I don't like 2 attacks on a non-nob unit that can't synergize with Bully Boyz. It's a 50% damage reduction if you don't have waaagh. The defensive stats are also just flat out garbage compared to meganobz, especially in a bully boyz detachment. I also think that Meganobz are going to ultimately be more versatile even with dual killsaws, because they're not relying on anti to deal damage, it's just raw stats. That ridiculous strength and AP combined with the reroll to wound is still going to mean something even against infantry.

 TedNugent wrote:
I just feel like the melee specialized can opener role was already played by dual killsaw meganobz.

I'm really not entirely convinced that that these are a better value for that specialized role of punching tanks in close quarters.

Tankbustas definitely fill a clear niche however, and are vastly improved over their prior iteration, if for no other reason than that they have nob statlines. And of course the datasheet this edition was clearly meant as a placeholder.

I don't like 2 attacks on a non-nob unit that can't synergize with Bully Boyz. It's a 50% damage reduction if you don't have waaagh. The defensive stats are also just flat out garbage compared to meganobz, especially in a bully boyz detachment. I also think that Meganobz are going to ultimately be more versatile even with dual killsaws, because they're not relying on anti to deal damage, it's just raw stats. That ridiculous strength and AP combined with the reroll to wound is still going to mean something even against infantry.

Oh yeah i keep forgetting the defensive profile from meganobz, FNP5 sv2 and 3w.. yeah well i kinda agree with you.
Hey deffrekka you might be too focused on the deeps, melee these days need to survive a bit.

Well I 'm little sad dedicated antitank units works with S9 weapons tha you can once per game or something like this push to 10. In some extra combo combinations maybe 11.

Rhinos are T9
Warghogs are T10
Bloody LRBT is T11
And Knights are T12

Tank opening units that wounds on 5+ againts most of the targets in most of the situations is pretty pathetic.

I like tankbustas because I like rokits. Bum bum! Great! And It is good, they are Nobz. As a boyz they were too squishi.

But as I said week ago, our rokkits needs to be S11 or anti4...

Honestly, I 'm not conviced with the whole anti4 except the Beast Snagga space. It makes me sence on a “lore setting” tool but hey, we speak about rokkits and huge hammers. These should be simple S11 because they make a big boom and I don' t see a reason, why the bikers or big chars should be protected…







Automatically Appended Next Post:
But I ' m very happy we have this change on Tankbustas and new unit of Breaka Boyz. It is a good way to go.

The rest is just a never ending balancing of stats and price.

I might have been wrong on the 3+, but neither tank bustas nor breakas will ever wound those units on 5+ either

Rhino will be 3+, 2+ with pulsa rokkit
Warhogs 4+, 3+ with pulsa rokkit
LRBT are 4+, and pulsa might still be worth to reduce those 2+ saves to 5+
Knights are 4+ and pulsa rokkit does nothing

Full math for pulsa rokkit at 12":
12 shots, 6 hits
Rhino: 5 wounds, ~4 unsaved for 12 damage +4 MW
Warhog: 4 wounds, 2.66 unsaved for 6-9 damage +4MW
LRBT/Knight: 3 wounds, 2 unsaved for 6 damage +4MW
They also got their grenade keyword back, so you could throw those as well.

Add a SAG and the unit has an very good chance of outright killing a LRBT after jumping out of a trukk, there isn't really any other ork unit which can do that for 185 points.

If tankbustas would have received S11 rokkits, that would definitely have replaced the +1 to wound and the pulsa rokkit buff. Which would have made them a lot worse against every single one of those targets.
And let's be real, once you've shot such a unit once, most tankbustas will be dead the next time you have a chance to shoot them again.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Math on breakas (all smash hammers):

12 attacks, 8 hits
Rhino: 4 wounds, 2.66 unsaved for 6-9 damage
Warhog: 4 wounds, 2.66 unsaved for 6-9 damage
LRBT: 4 wounds, 2 unsaved for 6 damage
Knight: 4 wounds, 2.66 unsaved for 6-9 damage

lead by warboss:
12 attacks, 10 hits
Rhino: 5 wounds, 3.33 unsaved for 9-12 damage
Warhog: 5 wounds, 2.66 unsaved for 9-12 damage
LRBT: 5 wounds, 3.33 unsaved for 6-9 damage
Knight: 5 wounds, 3.33 unsaved for 9-12 damage

Waaagh! turn:
18 attacks, 12 hits
Rhino: 6 wounds, 4 unsaved for 12 damage
Warhog: 6 wounds, 4 unsaved for 12 damage
LRBT: 6 wounds, 3 unsaved for 9 damage
Knight: 6 wounds, 4 unsaved for 12 damage

Waagh! turn lead by warboss:
18 attacks, 15 hits
Rhino: 7.5 wounds, 5 unsaved for 15 damage
Warhog: 7.5 wounds, 5 unsaved for 15 damage
LRBT: 7.5 wounds, 3.75 unsaved for 9-12 damage
Knight: 7.5 wounds, 5 unsaved for 15 damage

So, if you run them, better make sure they are in the right spot when you call your Waaagh!. Adding a warboss is probably not a waste of points as it adds roughly 50% damage before even considering its own attacks. 225 is a steep price for such a unit though, can't imagine running them outside of a detachment that provides direct buffs to them like bully boyz or wartribe.

Comparison smashhammer to knucklebustas:
Knugglebustas:
5 attacks, 3.33 hits, 2.5 wounds, 1.25 damage vs 3+, 0.83 dmg vs 2+
Smashhammer:
2 attacks, 1.33 hits, 0.66 wounds, 1.33 damage vs 3+, 1 dmg vs 2

Knugglebustas with Waaagh!:
6 attacks, 4 hits, 3 wounds, 1.5 damage vs 3+, 1 dmg vs 2+
Smashhammer with Waaagh!:
3 attacks, 2 hits, 1 wound, 2 damage vs 3+, 1.5 dmg vs 2+

So you lose some damage, but not as much as you might think. Essentially you are dropping half a point of damage to make it harder to tarpit the unit.

The knucklebustas definitely just look like an anti-tarpit measure. They don't seem to do much else.

Tankbustas might be fighting with Flash Gitz to be the best generalist ranged unit.

5d3 shots + blast + 2 Rokkit pistols is a lot of potential shots into a crowd and it's very well statted to splat most generic infantry.

Flash Gitz do better into crowds, but the Bustas will do better into hard targets. Likely taking two units of each will be a really solid Dakka core for shooting lists.

Side note; I would have loved for Bustas/Breakas to be more likely to trigger deadly demise of things they kill. It would probably never help you win a game but it would be good fun. Sad that neither unit got a Tankbusta Bombs ability, but oh well.

Im not sure im sold on Breaka boys.

They only have 2 attacks without the waaagh, so my quick math would be, in a vacuum, they deal 9 damage to a rhino. would on average, kill a rhino if they also dealt 1 damage with the squig bomb.

It would go a bit beyond average if you factor in sustained hits from war horde if thats your thing. They are not nobz despite having nob profiles, making them not amazing for bully boys as alternatives, and they are generally expensive. You do get 1 more body though which is good.


My gripe with them is that they only have 2 attacks standard, because it means you will get very little value out of them outside of the waaagh. When you only just barely kill a weak transport with a 140 point unit, thats not great. There isnt much leeway to make a bad roll before you fail to kill your target. For 140 points id expect them to have 3 attacks, but i also see why 4 attacks per model with damage 3 would be too much. They cant kill 10 guardsmen (or probably wont at least) but they can easily wreck a few terminators, making them an odd unit all round, without a waaagh.

I would be more inclined to them just not getting +1 attack on a waaagh, than standard them having only 2 attacks.

Eitherway, too few attacks for too many points makes them.. difficult for me. But they are not useless, they should still do well on a waaagh, although wounding tanks on a +4 makes them swingy. But they look pretty good at killing terminators though. Which gives them a secondary usage that few models in our codex really have. I guess most our units can kill terminators, but we have little damage 3. I would have to check them out in a few games to see how well they perform. 6 breaka boys and a warboss would be what, 215 points? The same as 10 Nobz essentially. But they are 7 models, making them a bit odd for sitting in transports. But i guess that combo can still go with 5 burna boys or flash gitz.


I am highly interested in the tankbustas however.

This conversation interest me, what Beardedragon pointed out is something i am more keen. We do have few units with D3 profile and that is something to keep tabs on.

Beardedragon wrote:
Eitherway, too few attacks for too many points makes them.. difficult for me. But they are not useless, they should still do well on a waaagh, although wounding tanks on a +4 makes them swingy. But they look pretty good at killing terminators though. Which gives them a secondary usage that few models in our codex really have. I guess most our units can kill terminators, but we have little damage 3. I would have to check them out in a few games to see how well they perform. 6 breaka boys and a warboss would be what, 215 points? The same as 10 Nobz essentially. But they are 7 models, making them a bit odd for sitting in transports. But i guess that combo can still go with 5 burna boys or flash gitz.

You could put 3 units of them in a battlewagon

Otherwise, I agree. Without the Waaagh!, the low number of attacks and average to wound rolls makes them too unreliable, even if you add the warboss. Being able to somewhat reliably crush 3-4 terminators a turn is not something many units in our codex can do though.
You absolutely won't see me running them in a dreadmob though. Not worth wasting a mek on.

The real maths to be done is how they compare against a similar points cost of twin killsaw MANz, with their respective warbosses.

If they have similar damage output, then it will likely come down to whether you want to spend the extra points for the defensive profile of the MANz.

I agree that giving them a Mek probably isn't worthwhile when Warbosses and Weirdboys exist.

Im really confused now. Did Ghaz unit always get lethal hits (+ sustained hits war horde) on a +5 when the waaagh turn is active?


I have NEVER played it that way and i have no idea when this was changed. I just thought he gave +1 to hit and wound, and makari had the lethal hits aura.

But now i see that they score critical hits on a +5 on active waaagh turns. Well i guess ive played a lot of tyranid as of lately but sheesh. I had no idea!

Consistency, previous iteration mentions the round. Since it is now in command well, you know how players tend to nitpick.

Hopefully GW learns the lesson, rule wise we need consistency over 30 iterations of the same rule.

Also yes, it's aura Ghaz also gains lethal and 5+crits. Or your referring to something else?

 Afrodactyl wrote:
The real maths to be done is how they compare against a similar points cost of twin killsaw MANz, with their respective warbosses.

If they have similar damage output, then it will likely come down to whether you want to spend the extra points for the defensive profile of the MANz.

Not sure whether that matters. The biggest price is the cost of opportunity of not having a warboss lead a much more durable unit of nobz IMO.
You also can't really match the points, as MA warboss with retinue is either 195 for 3 with puny 6 attacks or 265 for 5 which is a bit expensive. In general, they are completely different units. MANz are for fighting multiple times and soaking fire, while breakas will smash something and then start bleeding models fast. Brawlers vs assassins in MOBA terms.

Just for the sake of it:
5 Dual Killsaws, Waagh! turn lead by warboss:
15 attacks, 10 hits
Rhino: 8.88 wounds, 7.41 unsaved for 14-16 damage
Warhog: 8.88 wounds, 7.41 unsaved for 14-16 damage
LRBT: 8.88 wounds, 5.93 unsaved for ~12 damage
Warhog: 8.88 wounds, 7.41 unsaved for 14-16 damage

In other words - same damage, but you pay about 50 points for that extra durability and less mobility.

I agree that giving them a Mek probably isn't worthwhile when Warbosses and Weirdboys exist.

Nah, that's not how building a dreadmob works. Essentially you have a certain number of big meks and meks you can use to upgrade units into dread mobbers. At 1000 points the sweet point seems to be 3, at 2000 it's 5-6 and so on. Bring more meks and your army gets blown off the table, bring too little and you are either stuck with mediocre walkers or might just be better off using the wartribe.

Essentially the breakers are competing with MANz, boyz, lootas and the new tank bustas for those precious meks, and I don't see a good reason why I should be giving one to them. It's the one detachment that doesn't struggle putting high damage attacks into things.

I do see breakas replacing squighogs in my warhorde lists though. They serve a very similar role, but they can move through terrain and have a decent chance to succeed deep strike charges with weird boy or Ufthak.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
In case you were wondering like me, this is how you upgrade an existing unit of metal tankbustas to be legal again:

1) Replace tankhammer with random kitbashed tankbusta from your collection. Any proppa ork has some.
2) If you are deeply worried about WYSIWYG get your rokkit pistol git a bosspole and some other snazzy upgrades. That or, just break off his arms and put them on a nob from the nobz box
3) In step 8 of the instructions, build a tankbusta with magnetized rokkit rack/pulsa rokkit
4) In step 9 decide whether you want to be stuck with a smash hammer or knucklbustas for all eternity. Feth magnetizing that model.
Lots) In step 10 build a breaka boy with smashhammer - you already got a tankhammer!
Lots) build the nob and the remaining gits as breakas with smashhammers

Done, you now have a unit of tankbustas and breakas, each with 2 bomb squigs.

 Afrodactyl wrote:
The real maths to be done is how they compare against a similar points cost of twin killsaw MANz, with their respective warbosses.

If they have similar damage output, then it will likely come down to whether you want to spend the extra points for the defensive profile of the MANz.

I agree that giving them a Mek probably isn't worthwhile when Warbosses and Weirdboys exist.

Doing some quick and dirty maths it looks like Breaka Boyz + Boss out punch (point for point) both PK Nobz + Boss and twin saw Meganobz + Boss when you are:
1. Punching any 3W models with T6 or less
2. Punching vehicles/monsters of at least T10

If there are good invul saves involved, the gap gets substantially bigger in BB's favour (tankhammer, bomb squig, grenades). If there are good FNP saves or damage reduction rules, it's more of a toss up. The Bosses damage output and options for mortal wounds on top seems like enough of a leveller that throwing them into a sub optimal target isn't that big of a deal.

I think the decision to run these guys or not is going to come down to more than damage, they are an awkward sized unit for putting in a Trukk, the least durable of the 3 units being looked at, and Nobz are always going to be compelling as they are cheaper.

I’m late to the party here but I agree the breakas just don’t hit as well as they need and I can only see them used in a dreadmob detachment as a dedicated anti vehicle/monster unit with ap-4/-3. And even that is suspect. Bottom line breakas are 10pts overpriced and knucklebustas need -2ap
New tankbustas are the best help orks got with these changes. Poor bullyboys took multi hits with warboss points and hulking brutes nerf, but Waagh changes help for turn 2 games. Was actually hoping for help with buggies, or slight point drops for squig riders or ability change to killakans or bringing back the reroll 1 to armor saves in greentide. But maybe a new detachment can change things up bloodaxe theme?

Sorry Jidmah, I shouldn't have said a comparable amount of points, I should have said models. What I wanted to know was their damage output relative to Killsaw MANz and whether the extra points spent on the MANz for their durability was likely to be a deciding factor.

Which it seems like it is. Breakas are probably just going to be the budget MANz alternative, taken when you just need something big to die rather than putting a unit that can soak punishment as well.

I'm also a little ignorant when it comes to Dread Mob (I've barely looked at the detachment because I predominantly play Big Hunt or War Horde with mostly Snaggas) and didn't really consider it for Breakas. I see the obvious benefits for Tankbustas in that detachment, but my brain immediately tied Breakas to War Horde for more potential attacks.

I'll go educate myself on Dread Mob and come back