6th Edition and GK changes/Tactical - revisited (updated for FAQ V1.4 and some Eldar)

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**Godless-Mimicry**

tuiman wrote:
I dont bother using stratagy to make the knights scoring, because their main purpose it to be fire magnets and die. My opponent can either target the 3 knights in his face or my 20 point hechman squads sitting out of los on objectives (or in reserve), or my paladins. I normally take scout, give it to the paladins so the psycannons can be in range straight away, or the dreadknights so they can move into a better position to make a better shunting move, I find that works really well.

Ok that's fine, but a scoring Dreadknight is even more of a juicy target than a non-scoring Dreadknight. Something to think about

**tuiman**

Godless-Mimicry wrote:

Ok that's fine, but a scoring Dreadknight is even more of a juicy target than a non-scoring Dreadknight. Something to think about

Oh true, didn't think about it like that.

I quite like your idea of only taking 5 man pally squad, but how survivable/effective do you find that they are for you?

**jy2**

Marthike wrote:
Not gonna quote every thing but you sure know your stuff jy2

From what you said, purifers are definatly good enough to be included in a list (I would like to build that GK list because i used to have purifer spam and already have 2 dreadknights so it ill be easy for me to just use those models)

About the storm raven, do you think 1 storm raven can work?

switch 1 unit of purifers with a strom raven? I dont own any strom raven not sure if its worth it, I feel its not gonna give me that much of a advantage to justify it, it will keep 1 of my troops safe, and provide anti air fire power, which i am lacking a bit.

The prolem most army will have atleast 1 anti air gun (agies quad) or 1-2 that can be used for anti air. I just dont know if it will draw enough fire away from my other units and if someone has some dedicated anti air and I have 1 storm raven that gives him a easy target.

The more I talk about it the more i dont think it will work.

Coteaz roll on divination so I will try to give some of my units rerolls to hit. I guess he has to be inside one of the rhinos.

Now I also want to make a paladin list because i also own a paladin army and dont want them to go to waste and not be used.

I say your list jy2 (the one before greyzilla, really like it), i like to keep my list pure GK, atleast i want to try and if it doesn't work out well i will jump to allies.

If i go:

HQ - Draigo. 275 pts
TR - 10x Paladins - 4x Psycannons, Apothecary, Banner, Stave. 750 pts
TR - 1x Soladin - Hammer. 55 pts
TR - 1x Soladin - Hammer. 55 pts
TR - 1x Soladin - Hammer. 55 pts
TR - 1x Soladin - Hammer. 55 pts
HS - Dreadknight - Incinerator - teleporter. 235 pts
HS - Dreadknight - Incinerator - teleporter. 235 pts

Still got 35 points left which i might give the dreadknight a sword and MC a few psycannons. This is actully just the old deathstar thing that is nothing new i think.

That list has no fire support but i guess thats how paladins work, Deep strike and kill as much as they can. 2 threats and a mega threat. Also you have said that dreads are not viable in the age of S6/S7 spam I will leave them at home then.

1 stormraven can absolutely work. Drop 1 unit of purifiers and 1 dedicated transport. Then get 1 banisher with your unit of 3-henchmen and put them in the raven. Now you've got some nasty shenanigans against daemons and armies that rely on invuln's.

The Draigowing list is viable. However, consider the following change: Drop the Apothecary. Then add Coteaz. IMO, Coteaz > apothecary.

**tuiman**

Would it be worth running a dreadknight without an incinerator and just the teleporter, here is the list from a page back:

Draigo
Coteaz

10 pallys, 4 psycannon, stave, banner
solodin
4 acolytes, boltguns
4 acolytes, boltguns

Dreadknight, incinerator, teleporter
Dreadknight, incinerator, teleporter
Dreadknight, incinerator, teleporter

but if I drop an incinerator to free up points I can drop the acolytes for another solodin which would be a better option?

Draigo
Coteaz

10 pallys, 4 psycannon, stave, banner (mix of hammers, halberds, swords)
solodin, hammer
solodin, hammer
3 acolytes, boltguns

Dreadknight, incinerator, teleporter
Dreadknight, incinerator, teleporter
Dreadknight, teleporter

**jy2**

tuiman wrote:
Would it be worth running a dreadknight without an incinerator and just the teleporter, here is the list from a page back:

Draigo
Coteaz

10 pallys, 4 psycannon, stave, banner
solodin
4 acolytes, boltguns
4 acolytes, boltguns

Dreadknight, incinerator, teleporter
Dreadknight, incinerator, teleporter
Dreadknight, incinerator, teleporter

but if I drop an incinerator to free up points I can drop the acolytes for another solodin which would be a better option?

Draigo
Coteaz

10 pallys, 4 psycannon, stave, banner (mix of hammers, halberds, swords)
solodin, hammer
solodin, hammer
3 acolytes, boltguns

Dreadknight, incinerator, teleporter
Dreadknight, incinerator, teleporter
Dreadknight, teleporter

The smarter play would be to keep the incinerator and drop the teleporter. Then drop both units of henchmen and get 2 soladins instead (perhaps you may have enough points to keep 1 unit of 3 henchmen).

Why keep the incinerator and not the teleporter? Because you can still deepstrike your dreadknight and with Draigo's Psychic Communion, he's coming in on Turn 2 on a 2+. Then you can drop him near the opponent as another disruption unit.

**Godless-Mimicry**

tuiman wrote:
Godless-Mimicry wrote:

Ok that's fine, but a scoring Dreadknight is even more of a juicy target than a non-scoring Dreadknight. Something to think about

Oh true, didn't think about it like that.

I quite like your idea of only taking 5 man pally squad, but how survivable/effective do you find that they are for you?

No idea as I haven't used them since early 6th edition, but back then when everybody else was running 10 I ran 5 and they did fine. Only time will tell, but I probably won't get to play with my GK for awhile.

**tuiman**

jy2 wrote:

The smarter play would be to keep the incinerator and drop the teleporter. Then drop both units of henchmen and get 2 soladins instead (perhaps you may have enough points to keep 1 unit of 3 henchmen).

Why keep the incinerator and not the teleporter? Because you can still deepstrike your dreadknight and with Draigo's Psychic Communion, he's coming in on Turn 2 on a 2+. Then you can drop him near the opponent as another disruption unit.

That sounds like a good plan, but only having 2 knights in my opponents face T1 instead of 3, be a less of a benefit?

Even without the incinerator, I can jump T1, then assault T2. If I reserve, I can come on T2, assault T3, but by then I've come in piecemeal and given my opponent less threats to deal with at one time?

**jy2**

tuiman wrote:
jy2 wrote:

The smarter play would be to keep the incinerator and drop the teleporter. Then drop both units of henchmen and get 2 soladins instead (perhaps you may have enough points to keep 1 unit of 3 henchmen).

Why keep the incinerator and not the teleporter? Because you can still deepstrike your dreadknight and with Draigo's Psychic Communion, he's coming in on Turn 2 on a 2+. Then you can drop him near the opponent as another disruption unit.

That sounds like a good plan, but only having 2 knights in my opponents face T1 instead of 3, be a less of a benefit?

Even without the incinerator, I can jump T1, then assault T2. If I reserve, I can come on T2, assault T3, but by then I've come in piecemeal and given my opponent less threats to deal with at one time?

I'm finding that it's rarely a good idea to jump on T1. It's better to have a little patience and wait for a T2 beta-strike, when you have Draigo and soladins coming in as well (assuming you are deepstriking them) or just soladins if you deploy Draigo on the table in order to use Psychic Communion. So usually on T1, I just get them into position for a T2 strike, moving them behind LOS-blocking terrain or ruins if possible and then attacking when my reserves are coming in.

If you want a T1 alpha-strike, consider Mordrak+Ghost Knights and/or interceptors instead. Then everyone can hit your opponent's army at the same time.

**tuiman**

Hmmm ok thanks jy, setting up for a T2 strike does actually sound like a good plan, so how about this then:

Draigo
Coteaz

10 pallys, 4 psycannon, stave, banner, 3 hammers, 2 halberds, 3 swords
solodin, mc hammer
solodin, hammer
solodin, hammer

Dreadknight, incinerator, teleporter
Dreadknight, incinerator, teleporter
Dreadknight, incinerator

**Godless-Mimicry**

I'd personally go for a TDA Inquisitor with Psycannon and Psyker over Coteaz if you can find 10pts, as he can Deep Strike and thus allow you more freedome with your Paladins' deployment, which Coteaz doesn't allow unless you leave him solo hiding, in which case he is useless.

**Super Newb**

jy2 wrote:
If you want a T1 alpha-strike, consider Mordrak+Ghost Knights and/or interceptors instead. Then everyone can hit your opponent's army at the same time.

Do you think Mordrak as an HQ is a viable build? I tried to build a list around him in 6th and wasn't happy with what I came up with, but that could be just because of my general lack of experience and knowledge. What would be a good 'alpha-strike' GK list?

**Godless-Mimicry**

Super Newb wrote:
jy2 wrote:
If you want a T1 alpha-strike, consider Mordrak+Ghost Knights and/or interceptors instead. Then everyone can hit your opponent's army at the same time.

Do you think Mordrak as an HQ is a viable build? I tried to build a list around him in 6th and wasn't happy with what I came up with, but that could be just because of my general lack of experience and knowledge. What would be a good 'alpha-strike' GK list?

I'd start with 3 shunting Dreadknights, Mordrak with Ghost Knights, and a Libby with Warp Rift, then season to taste (including your two minimum Troop choices).

**jy2**

Godless-Mimicry wrote:
I'd personally go for a TDA Inquisitor with Psycannon and Psyker over Coteaz if you can find 10pts, as he can Deep Strike and thus allow you more freedome with your Paladins' deployment, which Coteaz doesn't allow unless you leave him solo hiding, in which case he is useless.

The TDA Inquisitor isn't a bad deal....but Coteaz just gives you so much bang for the buck. I can see a smaller, 5-man paladin squad to start off in reserves, but with the 10-man paladinstar, you almost always want to start them on the table....lest you potentially get tabled. And with them deployed, then you can take advantage of Draigo's Psychic Communion to manipulate the other reserves.

Coteaz's deepstrike defense is just so good with the paladinstar. I played against a tyranid army with the Doom, ymgarls and a mawloc. Ymgarls come in and I wipe them out with I've Been Expecting You (as well as Prescience on the paladinstar every turn). He then had to deepstrike the Doom and mawloc away. Imagine playing against drop pod armies, which is all the rage in competitive Imperial MEQ nowadays.

Never mind powers like Misfortune, Forewarning or Perfect Timing in addition to Prescience....

Super Newb wrote:
jy2 wrote:
If you want a T1 alpha-strike, consider Mordrak+Ghost Knights and/or interceptors instead. Then everyone can hit your opponent's army at the same time.

Do you think Mordrak as an HQ is a viable build? I tried to build a list around him in 6th and wasn't happy with what I came up with, but that could be just because of my general lack of experience and knowledge. What would be a good 'alpha-strike' GK list?

This was what I used to run at 2K.

Mordrak
5x Ghost Knights - 200
Librarian - 2x Powers - 160 (Warp Rift)

5x Strikers - Psycannon - 110
5x Strikers - Psycannon - 110

10x Interceptors - 2x Psycannons, Psybolt - 300
7x Interceptors - 1x Psycannon, Psybolt - 212

Dreadknight - Heavy Incinerator, Teleporter - 235
Dreadknight - Heavy Incinerator, Teleporter - 235
Dreadknight - Heavy Incinerator, Teleporter - 235

1997

If you need scoring, use Grand Strategy on the Interceptors and combat-squad them. Turn 1 you are potentially looking Mordrak's Deathstar, 2-3 units of Interceptors (depending if you combat squad them) and 3 dreadknights if you really want to. Now that is what I call a GK alpha-strike.

Now it's not a really balanced list. The success of such a list depends on certain factors - like 1st turn and what type of army you are going up against. It's not even the most competitive GK list. However, it is a fun as heck list to play. Win or lose is secondary to seeing the look on your opponent's face when you pull a T1 alpha-strike.

If I need to drop anything, the libbie is usually the first to go.

**Super Newb**

Cool, thanks GM and jy. Question - is Mordrak and his Ghosts that good without the Librarian there? They can't do much first turn (though I guess if they are ignored they will lay down the hurt on turn 2)

**Godless-Mimicry**

jy2 wrote:
The TDA Inquisitor isn't a bad deal....but Coteaz just gives you so much bang for the buck. I can see a smaller, 5-man paladin squad to start off in reserves, but with the 10-man paladinstar, you almost always want to start them on the table....lest you potentially get tabled. And with them deployed, then you can take advantage of Draigo's Psychic Communion to manipulate the other reserves.

Coteaz's deepstrike defense is just so good with the paladinstar. I played against a tyranid army with the Doom, ymgarls and a mawloc. Ymgarls come in and I wipe them out with I've Been Expecting You (as well as Prescience on the paladinstar every turn). He then had to deepstrike the Doom and mawloc away. Imagine playing against drop pod armies, which is all the rage in competitive Imperial MEQ nowadays.

Sorry, I was under the impression from past comments that the intention was to Deep Strike the blob.

**jy2**

Super Newb wrote:
Cool, thanks GM and jy. Question - is Mordrak and his Ghosts that good without the Librarian there? They can't do much first turn (though I guess if they are ignored they will lay down the hurt on turn 2)

Yes. IMO the librarian is not a must-have but the ghost knights are. Mordrak and his unit's job is not to dish out offense on Turn 1, but rather as target saturation to absorb some firepower. Turn 2 is when the real carnage begins.

Godless-Mimicry wrote:
jy2 wrote:
The TDA Inquisitor isn't a bad deal....but Coteaz just gives you so much bang for the buck. I can see a smaller, 5-man paladin squad to start off in reserves, but with the 10-man paladinstar, you almost always want to start them on the table....lest you potentially get tabled. And with them deployed, then you can take advantage of Draigo's Psychic Communion to manipulate the other reserves.

Coteaz's deepstrike defense is just so good with the paladinstar. I played against a tyranid army with the Doom, ymgarls and a mawloc. Ymgarls come in and I wipe them out with I've Been Expecting You (as well as Prescience on the paladinstar every turn). He then had to deepstrike the Doom and mawloc away. Imagine playing against drop pod armies, which is all the rage in competitive Imperial MEQ nowadays.

Sorry, I was under the impression from past comments that the intention was to Deep Strike the blob.

No worries. I would do that for smaller paladin units (5-man or soladins) but not with my big deathstar. You really don't want to take the chance of them potentially coming in on Turn 4 either.

**Godless-Mimicry**

Absolutely, I thought it was a bad idea alright, but was giving suggestion to help a tactic that I thought was being discussed.

**tuiman**

Just an idea, but could dark angel allies complement a mordrak bomb type of list, for 2k something like

Mordrak + ghosts

Troops ?

Dreadknight with incinerator + teleporter
Dreadknight with incinerator + teleporter
Dreadknight with incinerator + teleporter

Belial

5 deathwing terminators

scout squad with snipers and camo cloaks

Thats 1610 points, and obviuosly needs troops for the gk primary, and some upgrades on the deathwing squad, but any thoughts as to how viable it could be?

Maybe even drop a dreadknight, add a drop pod vet squad or something idk, ideas?

**Bigfashizzel**

What do you guys think the most competitive strategy/list is with GK? Deep-beta-strike? Mech henchmen MSU? Alpha-shunt? Something else?

**Neorealist**

Bigfashizzel wrote:
What do you guys think the most competitive strategy/list is with GK? Deep-beta-strike? Mech henchmen MSU? Alpha-shunt? Something else?

Depends on your meta.

I think Grey knights builds tend to group around a few loose strategies based on one of their special characters: Coteaz, Draigo, or Crowe primarily.

There is the Modrak bomb too, which is a lot of fun but not quite as competitive as one of the above three.

In general, scoring henchmen are cheap and awesome, scoring purifiers are efficient and awesome, scoring paladins are a rock against which entire armies will break, dreadknights are expensive and awesome, psi-dreads are efficient and awesome, and the rest is just more or less filler to taste.

**tuiman**

Neorealist wrote:
Bigfashizzel wrote:
What do you guys think the most competitive strategy/list is with GK? Deep-beta-strike? Mech henchmen MSU? Alpha-shunt? Something else?

Depends on your meta.

I think Grey knights builds tend to group around a few loose strategies based on one of their special characters: Coteaz, Draigo, or Crowe primarily.

There is the Modrak bomb too, which is a lot of fun but not quite as competitive as one of the above three.

In general, scoring henchmen are cheap and awesome, scoring purifiers are efficient and awesome, scoring paladins are a rock against which entire armies will break, dreadknights are expensive and awesome, psi-dreads are efficient and awesome, and the rest is just more or less filler to taste.

I slightly disagree, Crowe and purifiers is dead in the water, but yes take either Coteaz, draigo, mordrak and build a list around them

**Godless-Mimicry**

tuiman wrote:
Neorealist wrote:
Bigfashizzel wrote:
What do you guys think the most competitive strategy/list is with GK? Deep-beta-strike? Mech henchmen MSU? Alpha-shunt? Something else?

Depends on your meta.

I think Grey knights builds tend to group around a few loose strategies based on one of their special characters: Coteaz, Draigo, or Crowe primarily.

There is the Modrak bomb too, which is a lot of fun but not quite as competitive as one of the above three.

In general, scoring henchmen are cheap and awesome, scoring purifiers are efficient and awesome, scoring paladins are a rock against which entire armies will break, dreadknights are expensive and awesome, psi-dreads are efficient and awesome, and the rest is just more or less filler to taste.

I slightly disagree, Crowe and purifiers is dead in the water, but yes take either Coteaz, draigo, mordrak and build a list around them

Though i agree with you 100%, I won't get into another full discussion about Purifiers here

**Bigfashizzel**

Bah, I hate using named HQs, would be so happy if all the inquisitors could unlock henchmen troops, even if they had to buy equipment up to 100 pts to do so.

**Godless-Mimicry**

Bigfashizzel wrote:
Bah, I hate using named HQs, would be so happy if all the inquisitors could unlock henchmen troops, even if they had to buy equipment up to 100 pts to do so.

Really? A third post about this?

How can you get this riled up over a little resin bald guy?

**daedalus-templarius**

So I finished building my Wraithknight and wow it is a glorious model.

Can't wait to run it alongside Dreadknights and Draigo!

**Bigfashizzel**

Double-drat, it's been noticed! So much for slandering the big man :(

**sudojoe**

daedalus-templarius wrote:
So I finished building my Wraithknight and wow it is a glorious model.

Can't wait to run it alongside Dreadknights and Draigo!

I magnetized the arms to let me swap around things but so far I've been happiest with the distortion lances.

**Super Newb**

Bigfashizzel wrote:
Bah, I hate using named HQs, would be so happy if all the inquisitors could unlock henchmen troops, even if they had to buy equipment up to 100 pts to do so.

So play with an inquisitor that 'counts as' Coteaz. That's what I do. I kit bashed him. Problem solved. Please exalt my post.

**Neorealist**

Bigfashizzel wrote:
Bah, I hate using named HQs, would be so happy if all the inquisitors could unlock henchmen troops, even if they had to buy equipment up to 100 pts to do so.

I can relate, but they are just very efficient and, well, unique for what they do.

The named HQs do things that you literally cannot get with their generic equivalents, especially Coteaz, Draigo, and Modrak.

That and Coteaz is a contender for 'most under-costed relative to his statline, abilities, and utility' HQ model ever.

I advise just saying your Inquisitor model of choice 'counts as' using Coteazs' ruleset if you really just dislike the psyber eagle on his model or somesuch.

**daedalus-templarius**

sudojoe wrote:
daedalus-templarius wrote:
So I finished building my Wraithknight and wow it is a glorious model.

Can't wait to run it alongside Dreadknights and Draigo!

I magnetized the arms to let me swap around things but so far I've been happiest with the distortion lances.

A guy at my local shop swore by the suncannon, and I have to admit I did model it with that and the scattershield (and the sword! mwahaha). My local tourneys aren't exactly strict on modeled loadouts, so I can basically just say what I am running and that would be fine. I plan on trying out both the distortion lances and the suncannon.