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 lindsay40k wrote:

Danny slag wrote:
Had a thought, but again because chaos keywords are wonky I'm not sure if this works. I have Karnak from the wrath and rapture box. I'm thinking since he's a character, cheap, and fast, he could keep up with my rushing daemon engine list, and with his loci give them all re-rolls to their charges. Does that work?

Karanak is very good at this niche, and also provides useful DTW coverage. The only other unit that can perform this niche is a flying DP - who is faster, doesn’t care about obstacles, laughs at most snipers, and can carry a relic axe so powerful it scares Castellans.

But he is from the chaos daemon codex, so you would need to add a aux support detachment for -1 CP, if your battalion is CSM, right ?

 p5freak wrote:

 lindsay40k wrote:

Danny slag wrote:
Had a thought, but again because chaos keywords are wonky I'm not sure if this works. I have Karnak from the wrath and rapture box. I'm thinking since he's a character, cheap, and fast, he could keep up with my rushing daemon engine list, and with his loci give them all re-rolls to their charges. Does that work?

Karanak is very good at this niche, and also provides useful DTW coverage. The only other unit that can perform this niche is a flying DP - who is faster, doesn’t care about obstacles, laughs at most snipers, and can carry a relic axe so powerful it scares Castellans.

But he is from the chaos daemon codex, so you would need to add a aux support detachment for -1 CP, if your battalion is CSM, right ?

You would need some sort of Chaos Daemons detachment, yes. And it’d have to be all Khorne for Karanak/DP to gain the aura. This could be aux support HQ (-1CP, does not unlock CD Stratagems - such as the excellent trap card, Possession, and the Rewards of Chaos that could give the DP the relic weapon), Patrol (adding a unit of Bloodletters, who for 2-3CP become a brutal deep strike attack unit), or something bigger (Karanak, DP, and 40-50 Bloodletters is a very strong Battalion).

 lindsay40k wrote:
Karanak is very good at this niche, and also provides useful DTW coverage. The only other unit that can perform this niche is a flying DP - who is faster, doesn’t care about obstacles, laughs at most snipers, and can carry a relic axe so powerful it scares Castellans.

He would be a very solid 2nd HQ choice for a Khorne Daemons Battalion Legion of Skulls, especially with Rage Incarnate and the Crimson Crown, could be quite magical. The DP is nice, but doesn't provide the psychic protection, which has some real value in moving that package upfield. Also, 70pts is solid, to paraphrase Napoleon, 'cheap has a quality all its own'.

Edit: nm on the warlord, forgot he's locked to a specific trait.

Also you cant give karanak a relic because he is a named character.

 p5freak wrote:
Also you cant give karanak a relic because he is a named character.

Oh right, still worth it for 70 pts just for the re-roll charges and denies.

 TwinPoleTheory wrote:

 lindsay40k wrote:
Karanak is very good at this niche, and also provides useful DTW coverage. The only other unit that can perform this niche is a flying DP - who is faster, doesn’t care about obstacles, laughs at most snipers, and can carry a relic axe so powerful it scares Castellans.

He would be a very solid 2nd HQ choice for a Khorne Daemons Battalion Legion of Skulls, especially with Rage Incarnate and the Crimson Crown, could be quite magical. The DP is nice, but doesn't provide the psychic protection, which has some real value in moving that package upfield. Also, 70pts is solid, to paraphrase Napoleon, 'cheap has a quality all its own'.

Edit: nm on the warlord, forgot he's locked to a specific trait.

I got your point, but I believe the quote your thinking of was from Stalin who said "Quantity is a quality all it's own."

 Red Corsair wrote:
I got your point, but I believe the quote your thinking of was from Stalin who said "Quantity is a quality all it's own."

You are correct, it was Stalin, I have failed in my quoting of horrible historical figures, thanks!

Any thoughts on the Storm Eagle making a comeback? Its unique virtues of 16w, decent guns, and 20 transport slots makes it a very flexible transport, and the DA can unlock that magical -2 to hit on T1. Yes, it's 300+pts, but we're one of the few factions that has CC troops worth delivering in such a vehicle. Big Possessed blob or triple msu PFist zerkers with support is significant.

I think it could be fun. Shame the fire raptor didn't stay at it's old points. It'd be nutty good now.

 grouchoben wrote:
Any thoughts on the Storm Eagle making a comeback? Its unique virtues of 16w, decent guns, and 20 transport slots makes it a very flexible transport, and the DA can unlock that magical -2 to hit on T1. Yes, it's 300+pts, but we're one of the few factions that has CC troops worth delivering in such a vehicle. Big Possessed blob or triple msu PFist zerkers with support is significant.

I have 2 Storm Eagles, and was planning to do something like this. I was using it prior to the DA changes and it was often very good (it was also occasionally blown up when I lost initiative and useless). Throwing 18 Berzerkers, Exalted Champion, and either a Chaos Lord or DA inside I think is very solid, especially now that you can dial it up to -2 to hit, or even -3 if you throw Mark of Nurgle on it also.

Also, amusingly, storm eagles aren't a bad way to keep your oblits safe; you can toss three of them in there, hidden behind a -2 to be hit vehicle; still have room for 2 berserker squads and a character to help them out. They can hop out turn 1 then!

 lindsay40k wrote:

Danny slag wrote:
Had a thought, but again because chaos keywords are wonky I'm not sure if this works. I have Karnak from the wrath and rapture box. I'm thinking since he's a character, cheap, and fast, he could keep up with my rushing daemon engine list, and with his loci give them all re-rolls to their charges. Does that work?

Karanak is very good at this niche, and also provides useful DTW coverage. The only other unit that can perform this niche is a flying DP - who is faster, doesn’t care about obstacles, laughs at most snipers, and can carry a relic axe so powerful it scares Castellans.

Thank you. My plan was to use him in a patrol detachment along with a mini bloodletter bomb of 20.
Run up the field with a mob of daemon engines + karnak. Drop the bloodletters in. And I've got a khorne themed gallant Knight to join. I know going mono khorne isn't ideal, but blood for the blood god and all that.

I was also planning on using a MoP to give all the engines a +1 to their invuln saves, but he can't really keep up with them as he has no jetpack option.

Basically I'm trying to make a khorne daemonkin army work.

I'd up the Letters to a bit above 20. Overwatch can pretty easily kill at least one Letter, and there goes your squad bonus.

 JNAProductions wrote:
I'd up the Letters to a bit above 20. Overwatch can pretty easily kill at least one Letter, and there goes your squad bonus.

Good call. Thank you.

So I'm mulling over a Nurgle Daemon engine blob consisting of the following:
- Nurgle Daemon Prince from the Daemon book
- Nurgle LD
- Decimators
- Defilers

We get the following benefits on our daemon engines:
- +1 damage on 6s (including guns) due to locus
- Reroll 1 to hit due to prince
- +1 to hit with LD
- Potentially +2 move and charge if you take the Soulforged specialist WLT

What do you guys think?

That does not seem very different than those same units but not Nurgle, tbh. Extra would on a 6 is not enormous.

 ph34r wrote:
That does not seem very different than those same units but not Nurgle, tbh. Extra would on a 6 is not enormous.

But if you add Epidemius...

 JNAProductions wrote:

 ph34r wrote:
That does not seem very different than those same units but not Nurgle, tbh. Extra would on a 6 is not enormous.

But if you ad Epidemius...

All epi does is allow you to smash an opponent when your already winning in my experience.

 Continuity wrote:
So I'm mulling over a Nurgle Daemon engine blob consisting of the following:
- Nurgle Daemon Prince from the Daemon book
- Nurgle LD
- Decimators
- Defilers

We get the following benefits on our daemon engines:
- +1 damage on 6s (including guns) due to locus
- Reroll 1 to hit due to prince
- +1 to hit with LD
- Potentially +2 move and charge if you take the Soulforged specialist WLT

What do you guys think?

You dont get locus in a mixed nurgle detachment, has to be a nurgle chaos demons detachment. Likewise you can't give it the soulforged pack as it needs to be a chaos space marines detachment to do so.

Not Online!!! wrote:

Gangland wrote:
So I run World Eaters and Alpha Legion. Alpha for access to Psykers and the -1 to hit. World Eaters are for a fun party bus of bezerkers with dark apostle and exhalted to add more fun with rerolls

I go up against mostly imperial gaurd, loyalist scum and eldar.

One thing I am considering doing is adding in some Death Gaurd. Anyone have any opinions if DG would work well with my set up?

Would depend on your al part, no?

Typically I run terminators, obliterators, predators, sorcerers, and everything I don’t intend to be in close combat as Alpha. Cultists, bezerkers, Dark apostle, and exalted champs are all world eaters

I always find world eaters to be overkill myself (and i have a world eaters army). They just do so good in cc that those extra attacks were never worth it. I ended up running them as renegades for the advance and charge which i always found to be more useful. The only reason i ever find myself looking back at world eaters is karn, that guy is just too cool not to use. Want to scare your opponent? Put kharn down next to 2 forgefiends. Now put a herald of khorne with the blood crown near them. Thats 16 str 8 ap-1 2d shots that wound rolls of 6 generate additonal attacks and you get to reroll all failed hits. Plus you get the added bonus that no one will want to charge that while kharn is sitting there and if someone does charge kharn isnt likely to hurt a forgefiend much if/when a swing goes wild.

I have used that setup quite effectively vs a dark angel player locally, with the beta bolter rules he went hard into raven wing. He was using a large 8 man squad of bolters and speed of the raven strat to boost and get the 4++ and still shoot and 2 black knight bike squads boosting firing their assault plasma. That stopped him dead. Does a number on terms with storm shields too.

Khalan wrote:

 Continuity wrote:
So I'm mulling over a Nurgle Daemon engine blob consisting of the following:
- Nurgle Daemon Prince from the Daemon book
- Nurgle LD
- Decimators
- Defilers

We get the following benefits on our daemon engines:
- +1 damage on 6s (including guns) due to locus
- Reroll 1 to hit due to prince
- +1 to hit with LD
- Potentially +2 move and charge if you take the Soulforged specialist WLT

What do you guys think?

You dont get locus in a mixed nurgle detachment, has to be a nurgle chaos demons detachment. Likewise you can't give it the soulforged pack as it needs to be a chaos space marines detachment to do so.

They won't be in a single detachment


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ph34r wrote:
That does not seem very different than those same units but not Nurgle, tbh. Extra would on a 6 is not enormous.

+1 damage applying to shooting attack is pretty significant IMO, hence why I included defilers and decimators since they can maximize the locus buffs

I think that nurgle and khorne synergise the best with LD and daemon engines. Herald would also work well for extra strengthe an buffing spells but you'd have to deepstrike turn 2 to keep up with prince and engine. This is where I think khorne has a slight advantage as skullmaster has better chance keeping up and works with kytans.

You might want to add the tree so you can advance/fallback and charge.

I find World Eaters's only two benefits /really/ are Kharn the Betrayer (who is one of the best baby sitters for shooting units, which just drips with irony) and the fact Berzerkers are troops. It allows you to not have to worry about taking as much cultist tax in your army if you don't want to, or going double battalion without overloading on chaff.

And as stated above, i've had a lot of success with using Khorne Heralds with units like Maulerfiends and Lord of Skulls. The Herald on a Juggernaut is probably the best bet, only because it can more or less match the pace of whatever its buffing. (if you start almost equal distance, the Herald's 6" buff aura will still be in reach even with losing 2 inches a turn on the Demon Engines)

The Nurgle Daemon Engine group works just fine. If you’re already sorted for a Hereticus caster and want the Nurgle re-roll aura, a Daemons DP effectively has more wounds and access to a useful support spell. Yes, it needs a separate detachment, but just put it in a Battalion with two Nurgling squads to plant objective flags and screen, a Plaguebearer squad to camp a home objective or be a massive robust horde, and either a Poxbringer to cast support spells or Epidemius to scarecrow deep strikers and make the re-roll 1’s global & independent from the DP once it does a suicide run to assassinate a key target or score a juicy tactical objective.

Add a Gnarlmaw and you can laugh in near unkillable Obliterators, double advance then charge with a Warptimed Maulerfiend, and all your Defilers & Lords Discordant can fire whilst advancing. If your opponent saw Nurgle and thought slugs, they’re in for a rude awakening.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 vaklor4 wrote:
I find World Eaters's only two benefits /really/ are Kharn the Betrayer (who is one of the best baby sitters for shooting units, which just drips with irony) and the fact Berzerkers are troops. It allows you to not have to worry about taking as much cultist tax in your army if you don't want to, or going double battalion without overloading on chaff.

And as stated above, i've had a lot of success with using Khorne Heralds with units like Maulerfiends and Lord of Skulls. The Herald on a Juggernaut is probably the best bet, only because it can more or less match the pace of whatever its buffing. (if you start almost equal distance, the Herald's 6" buff aura will still be in reach even with losing 2 inches a turn on the Demon Engines)

I’ve seen a pretty scary WE Warp Talons bomb:
- run a Herald forwards T1
- T2, Summon a Throne and jump on it
- Drop Warp Talons Raptorial Host with RH WT
- blend

The Khorne Stratagem multiplies the WE Trait for a product of twenty attacks on top of the bucketload from the throne. Throw in Crimson Crown and VOTLW and, assuming effective screen clearance, this could get ugly

So as someone who is thinking about coming back to actually play 40k after the awesome new models, I have some rather noobish questions:

It seems plasma got pretty buffed this edition especially the pistols, so are meltaguns still useful or should I equip my cc marines with a plasma pistol and a plasma gun?

I'm not that fond of the keyword system so far, it sounds like I have to pick a mark, but as I'm playing Word Bearers ( ) I would like to avoid that. Is it possible to pick no mark or an undivided one and will this gut me to no end (I suppose so...)?

I would like to go CSM daemon heavy, is there a possibility to get daemon on helbrutes and are there some nice unit combos you can recommend?

Quick Question:

If you use the Chaos Boon start. is there any reason why, if you roll spawndom you cannot use the 1CP re-roll strat, to re-roll the result (apart from if you have already used the re-roll this fight phase...)?

 lindsay40k wrote:
The Nurgle Daemon Engine group works just fine. If you’re already sorted for a Hereticus caster and want the Nurgle re-roll aura, a Daemons DP effectively has more wounds and access to a useful support spell. Yes, it needs a separate detachment, but just put it in a Battalion with two Nurgling squads to plant objective flags and screen, a Plaguebearer squad to camp a home objective or be a massive robust horde, and either a Poxbringer to cast support spells or Epidemius to scarecrow deep strikers and make the re-roll 1’s global & independent from the DP once it does a suicide run to assassinate a key target or score a juicy tactical objective.

Add a Gnarlmaw and you can laugh in near unkillable Obliterators, double advance then charge with a Warptimed Maulerfiend, and all your Defilers & Lords Discordant can fire whilst advancing. If your opponent saw Nurgle and thought slugs, they’re in for a rude awakening.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 vaklor4 wrote:
I find World Eaters's only two benefits /really/ are Kharn the Betrayer (who is one of the best baby sitters for shooting units, which just drips with irony) and the fact Berzerkers are troops. It allows you to not have to worry about taking as much cultist tax in your army if you don't want to, or going double battalion without overloading on chaff.

And as stated above, i've had a lot of success with using Khorne Heralds with units like Maulerfiends and Lord of Skulls. The Herald on a Juggernaut is probably the best bet, only because it can more or less match the pace of whatever its buffing. (if you start almost equal distance, the Herald's 6" buff aura will still be in reach even with losing 2 inches a turn on the Demon Engines)

I’ve seen a pretty scary WE Warp Talons bomb:
- run a Herald forwards T1
- T2, Summon a Throne and jump on it
- Drop Warp Talons Raptorial Host with RH WT
- blend

The Khorne Stratagem multiplies the WE Trait for a product of twenty attacks on top of the bucketload from the throne. Throw in Crimson Crown and VOTLW and, assuming effective screen clearance, this could get ugly

I've just played a game with Khorne daemons, herald on juggernaut and crimson crown. With WE warp talons and alpha legion khorne oblits. Worked really well.

WE warp talons seem really strong and the oblits were getting 8 hits each with prescience and crimson crown. Not needing to spend 2 CP per turn on Cacophony was great.

Are people playing their oblits at 115 or 65? At 115 they seem over priced when a venom crawler is 15 pts more, but 65 they are stupid good. I have been using mine at 115 because i dont want to cause an issue with my gaming group.

Come on gw, at least give us THAT answer, why are you making us wait for the big FAQ for this?!?

 Shadox wrote:
So as someone who is thinking about coming back to actually play 40k after the awesome new models, I have some rather noobish questions:

It seems plasma got pretty buffed this edition especially the pistols, so are meltaguns still useful or should I equip my cc marines with a plasma pistol and a plasma gun?

I'm not that fond of the keyword system so far, it sounds like I have to pick a mark, but as I'm playing Word Bearers ( ) I would like to avoid that. Is it possible to pick no mark or an undivided one and will this gut me to no end (I suppose so...)?

I would like to go CSM daemon heavy, is there a possibility to get daemon on helbrutes and are there some nice unit combos you can recommend?

Plasma guns are great. Especially with Prescience, Lord/Prince rerolls, Veterans of the Long War, Endless Cacophony.
Plasma pistols are weird. I tried them early on and they just don’t seem to gel in this edition. Either go for the full rifle and get the double tap, or focus on melee. To use a pistol’s ability to shoot point blank, you need to start your own turn in melee; that’s a really narrow niche for a weapon you have to pay for.
Melta is odd. At 6-12”, overcharged Plasma is more effective. Within 6” isn’t especially relevant, since close range gunner units generally opt to deep strike in, and that’s not going to happen.

Word Bearers sans mortal DEITY units is possible. In fact, every WB-available Codex unit except for Daemon Princes, Berzerkers, Noise Marines, Plague Marines, Rubrics, and Lords of Skulls is by default unmarked, and there is a (sadly, near useless) Stratagem specifically for unmarked units.

I’ve come to quite like my WB NMs & zerks, but mostly my heavy hitters are things like Possessed, Obliterators, and Daemon Engines - all of which are quite easy to reconcile with Lorgarian polytheism, because it’s not us picking a deity, it’s a Daemon picking us. Allow your vessels for the sacred ones to accept the gifts conferred upon them by their bodily guests, and go full Gal Vorbak on the corpse-worshippers.

Helbrutes are strictly mortal units, buuut there’s the Forge World Decimator Daemon Engine that’s got a similar profile and role to a HB. Get creative with Daemonic aesthetics, and I’m sure a Possessed Helbrute counting as a Decimator will pass muster for WYSIWYG. This may be superfluous, though, because Obliterators, Defilers, Maulerfiends, Possessed, Lord Discordant, Daemon Prince and Master of Possession are all quite capable of forming a solid Daemonkin army with powerful synergies and no need for convoluted conversions or this-counts-as. I’m personally a fan of the Heldrake as an early game griefer and occasional assassin, but I seem to be a minority on this as it’s commonly considered overcosted.

If you’re made of money or have access to good discounts or are in it for the long-term hobbycraft, fours detachments of units possessed by a single deity’s Daemons, supported by some unmarked mortal Dark Apostles and Masters of Possession and Cultists, and accomplained by a detachment of each Daemon, is a great looking Word Bearers army to build towards - and about as effective as our weak Legion Trait and Stratagem will allow. (Our Warlord Trait is pretty good, though. Definitely useful on a Chaos Lord or Daemon Prince. And our Relic is decent; it was great, back when a Dark Apostle could take it - this may be FAQ’d back.)