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 addnid wrote:
They could just knock off a few PPM and all would be fine. 11 points per nob would make them work just fine no ?

Is that what you want, though?

I'd much rather they be made better at their current cost than made cheaper at their current capabilities.

 addnid wrote:
They could just knock off a few PPM and all would be fine. 11 points per nob would make them work just fine no ?

you get to a point where you make things too cheap and they are only viable because of board control and wounds. 11pts is soooooo cheap for a 2 wound t4 4+ save model. Look at Skitarii, Kabalites, Battle Sisters. They are all 9-11pt models that are single wound, t3 and 5/4/3+ save (6++). Yeah they have good BS but they dont generally hit hard or hold up in a fist fight. Id rather Nobz be worth their pts before they get bumped down to silly levels where you just take them naked and flood the board.

yeah, i hate it when the fix is just "make it cheaper"

Theres 2 problems with that.

1) A lot of issues are not fixed by points alone (squigbuggy....) - sometimes the mechanics of the unit itself or its weapon options are just so bad it cant possibly be good.

2) Theres a point where even terrible units become kinda broken because they are unusually cheap for their durability. The before mentioned squigbuggy would definitely be used if it dropped to like 60ppm, but more because its just stupid durable for its price than its actually good.

Nobz would go from niche uses/generally overshadowed by MANz or Boyz for the given role you want them for to completely kicking boyz out of the menu if they just got cheaper. I'd rather Nobz, the non-mega variant, get extra rules and/or gear than price cuts.
Also nobz need to be 3w now, MANz at 4w. Change my mind.

I was hoping Nob Bikers would be at T6 too, to indicate Nobs were going to T5 base.

Alas. At least the warboss seems to be base T6.

 deffrekka wrote:

cody.d. wrote:
It certainly doesn't help that their stateline has fallen behind. There was a time when 2 wound infantry were rare and scary. A nob could go toe to toe with marine frontline infantry and mulch them.

The fact that now their statline is so common that most armies take weaponry specifically to deal with it (Plasma guns, autocannons) means they die far faster than they used to. I'm not sure how or if they will fix unarmoured nobs. Maybe improve their ld buffing ability? Give them a bodyguard ability? Something that rewards them for killing an enemy unit and showing the smaller ladz how it's done proppa?

I mean, in a bubble nobs are pretty okay right? But when you stack them up against their competitors... ehhh their faults start to show.

Yeah this was my point exactly. They have the same statlines from 4th/5th edition with furious charged backed in to their strength. Nobz could tango most independent and squad based characters back then, same with your Warbosses and in the books Nobz were reflected as huge threats. I remember in Purging of Kallidus where a Nob cleaves his way through a squad of Dark Angels in a hab block with his power axe and the Chaplain gets taken to town and it takes the main character launching himself and the Nob out of the window to finish him off by landing on him, destroying the Chaplains armour in the process, the Nob fought the whole way down too! Even ripped of his helmet with his tusks.

But now they are getting outshinned by your basic Marines and Primaris. Personally I dont believe any army should have more close combat attacks that Orks. Why does an Outrider sarge have 7 attacks? Thats more than most if not all HQs in other races. If you compare Goffs to Blood Angels\Space Wolves, its pretty damn shocking how bad Goffs are as a melee subfaction. Could you imagine Orks getting +1 to hit or wound and either more reliably charges or just army wide heroic interventions?! in addition to special doctrines.....

I think Orks need more than datasheet changes, I think they need their fundamental rules updating and brought up in line with Necrons and Marines.

Perhaps the warboss on bike is a clue on what's to come? He got an extra attack over his foot companion. Maybe most of the orks over base level will get an extra attack to accommodate how wildly the game has exploded? Remember when spacewolves with their bolter, CCW and pistol was like, wow impressive! Bolter and 3 attacks on the charge? Now a marine with similar loadout would be 4 or 5.

But yeah, orks losing furious charge as a faction rule and having it baked in is good and bad. I will never miss Str 3 ork boyz. But we do lack the impact that a charging unit of orks used to have. Once apon a time when a unit of orks hit home they hit with a KRUMP! Perhaps we will get a +1 to something on the charge, be it AP, wound or hit. It's well within their fluff and would synergise with their reroll charges.

Orks and Tau do feel like they're a special rule or two short of everyone else at the moment. I can see Ramshackle becoming more widespread, indicated by the FW rules. I can also see DX3 becoming an additional hit rather than additional shot. And i'm using the Goff Rokkas rules as an indication here. Yes flimsy I know but it did stand out. That and I think orks were one of the earlier Get 6 for extra attacks sort of factions. Then marines got several better versions shortly after. And with the always hit on 6s being passed to everyone the rule has lost a looooooot of it's lustre.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
yeah, i hate it when the fix is just "make it cheaper"

Theres 2 problems with that.

1) A lot of issues are not fixed by points alone (squigbuggy....) - sometimes the mechanics of the unit itself or its weapon options are just so bad it cant possibly be good.

2) Theres a point where even terrible units become kinda broken because they are unusually cheap for their durability. The before mentioned squigbuggy would definitely be used if it dropped to like 60ppm, but more because its just stupid durable for its price than its actually good.

Nobz would go from niche uses/generally overshadowed by MANz or Boyz for the given role you want them for to completely kicking boyz out of the menu if they just got cheaper. I'd rather Nobz, the non-mega variant, get extra rules and/or gear than price cuts.
Also nobz need to be 3w now, MANz at 4w. Change my mind.

I agree, I think Nobz should be 3 wounds and Meganobz 4 wounds. Or they both have access to a strat or base rules that make them reduce damage by 1 like Aberrants. Nobz should be tougher than a Space Marine. I dont care if they've crossed the rubicon or not. Space Marines are fast, but not as fast as Eldar. Space Marines are strong and tough, but not as much as an Ork. Space Marines are adaptive, but not as much as T'au.

Being transhuman doesnt mean you surpass other races out there. But by being a bit like each of these races thats how they become a threat. A fresh out of the trials and inductions Assault Marine shouldn't hold the ring in a naked bare fisted fight with a war-ravaged 600lbs Nob who has no patience with fancy words.

Yeah making things cheaper obviously works — see new kill tanks vs old.

Boys are probably a mediocre at best troop choice. The 17 to 11 ppm drop would be like dropping boys down to 5 points.

A 5 PPM boy with its current stat line would be borderline broken. S tier easily.

cody.d. wrote:

 deffrekka wrote:

cody.d. wrote:
It certainly doesn't help that their stateline has fallen behind. There was a time when 2 wound infantry were rare and scary. A nob could go toe to toe with marine frontline infantry and mulch them.

The fact that now their statline is so common that most armies take weaponry specifically to deal with it (Plasma guns, autocannons) means they die far faster than they used to. I'm not sure how or if they will fix unarmoured nobs. Maybe improve their ld buffing ability? Give them a bodyguard ability? Something that rewards them for killing an enemy unit and showing the smaller ladz how it's done proppa?

I mean, in a bubble nobs are pretty okay right? But when you stack them up against their competitors... ehhh their faults start to show.

Yeah this was my point exactly. They have the same statlines from 4th/5th edition with furious charged backed in to their strength. Nobz could tango most independent and squad based characters back then, same with your Warbosses and in the books Nobz were reflected as huge threats. I remember in Purging of Kallidus where a Nob cleaves his way through a squad of Dark Angels in a hab block with his power axe and the Chaplain gets taken to town and it takes the main character launching himself and the Nob out of the window to finish him off by landing on him, destroying the Chaplains armour in the process, the Nob fought the whole way down too! Even ripped of his helmet with his tusks.

But now they are getting outshinned by your basic Marines and Primaris. Personally I dont believe any army should have more close combat attacks that Orks. Why does an Outrider sarge have 7 attacks? Thats more than most if not all HQs in other races. If you compare Goffs to Blood Angels\Space Wolves, its pretty damn shocking how bad Goffs are as a melee subfaction. Could you imagine Orks getting +1 to hit or wound and either more reliably charges or just army wide heroic interventions?! in addition to special doctrines.....

I think Orks need more than datasheet changes, I think they need their fundamental rules updating and brought up in line with Necrons and Marines.

Perhaps the warboss on bike is a clue on what's to come? He got an extra attack over his foot companion. Maybe most of the orks over base level will get an extra attack to accommodate how wildly the game has exploded? Remember when spacewolves with their bolter, CCW and pistol was like, wow impressive! Bolter and 3 attacks on the charge? Now a marine with similar loadout would be 4 or 5.

But yeah, orks losing furious charge as a faction rule and having it baked in is good and bad. I will never miss Str 3 ork boyz. But we do lack the impact that a charging unit of orks used to have. Once apon a time when a unit of orks hit home they hit with a KRUMP! Perhaps we will get a +1 to something on the charge, be it AP, wound or hit. It's well within their fluff and would synergise with their reroll charges.

Orks and Tau do feel like they're a special rule or two short of everyone else at the moment. I can see Ramshackle becoming more widespread, indicated by the FW rules. I can also see DX3 becoming an additional hit rather than additional shot. And i'm using the Goff Rokkas rules as an indication here. Yes flimsy I know but it did stand out. That and I think orks were one of the earlier Get 6 for extra attacks sort of factions. Then marines got several better versions shortly after. And with the always hit on 6s being passed to everyone the rule has lost a looooooot of it's lustre.

Orks seem to be stuck in there statlines from 4-5 editions ago. Not much has changed for Orkz except getting furious charge baked into their statline. Where as Marines have seen change after change throughout there 8th and 9th ed lifecycle. Bolter Drill, cool, brought bolters up to line. Shock Assault, not needed. Doctrines, just needs to go. Having all 3 is too much. 1 or 2 of them is fine but all 3 is too far, in additon with the extra wound and wargear changes theyve seen in this new codex and then chapter specific doctrine benefits too. They should of done indexes again for everyone. Thats what I strongly believe in. I watched a batrep between Space Wolves and Chaos Space Marines today and the difference between Grey Hunters and actually CSM is soooooooo wide and stupid.

I know marines were crap at the start of 8th but now its just constant SM for months. It feels like ages since marines werent dominating the top tables. Orks kind of need these same rule additions. I think DDD should just makes those 6s additional hits. PERIOD. I want Waaagh! to gain momentum as the battle goes on, getting stronger and stronger. I want our Nobz and Bosses to actually be a threat. Boyz to not be push overs, whats the point in even having a 6+ save nowadays, or a slugga, or stikkbombs. Id rather pay a pt or 2 less and just have a naked boy with a choppa and no save.

Honestly I'd prefer if it were more a case of the warboss or a nob squad doing something and passing on bonuses. Yeah it requires a trigger which is always hit and miss but a Waagh is meant to be a crusade centred entirely around a warboss' ability to hold a bunch of soccer hooligans together and keep them all running in the one direction.

The rules for AOS Megaboss' feel pretty good. They get better as the game goes on and in the big waagh you get a minor but helpful buff for them just being around.

But I get what you mean regarding the marines. I use a term from Mobas and other games from time to time. Being over tuned or having an overloaded toolbox. It can lead to things being wildly unbalanced when things unintended to synergise in stupid ways. Like an imperial first Dev Centurions had better anti tank with their heavy bolters than with their lascannons. And the ability to wound even titans on a 4+ and get 3 shots for every 5 they happened to roll to hit. I've been on the receiving end. It wasn't fun.

Then you have orks. Uuum, yeah if I get a 6 I can try to shoot again, but I will possibly need another for that to work. Insert your chad astrates vs virgin ork memes here.

Just compare Assault Intercessors to Nobz. 2ppm more gets you ap1 CC attacks, an 18" ap1 pistol. Both get affected by doctrines, a 3+ save, a better BS, better leadership, better synergies available to them like transhuman and rerolls.... its pretty disgusting really and that's a troops choice.

And orks get, 1 pt better strength? Some okay stratagems and one or two nice powers but yeah, marines are leagues ahead atm. Only our collection of wonderful light vehicles seem to be keeping orks relevant in tourneys atm.

I have the feeling that Nobs will go the immortal route. R5 and maybe access to a better cybork body. No more. Ideally they also so have 2+ ws as the special goffs from the WD. With those improvements if they keep the current cost they sgoukde be fine and not OP.

Same for MANZ, R5. Ws2+. Done

------

Thinking twice. WS 2+ will not happen as FW nob bikers are WS3+. However, I am hoping for a rework of some rules such that MANZ dont go 4+

I've return to 40k. Since I haven't played for a long time, I have some problems with rules. I'm mixing it between Warhammer Battle, Kill Team and previous editions.
So, quick question: assuming non Evil Sun unit, after Da Jump/Tellyporta, I need to roll 8 or 9 to connect a charge. There is something about >more than 9"<. If more, then I assume I need to roll 9. Is it right?

Yes thats right, you need 9"

tulun wrote:
Yeah making things cheaper obviously works — see new kill tanks vs old.

Boys are probably a mediocre at best troop choice. The 17 to 11 ppm drop would be like dropping boys down to 5 points.

A 5 PPM boy with its current stat line would be borderline broken. S tier easily.

Making underperforming units cheaper isn't the way to go, unless those units are extremely overcosted. It's exactly the opposite path that GW took a couple months ago when most of the stuff got a price hike, along with reducing the dice rolling so adding attacks is also a wrong way to go. I think the best standard should be around 1500ish points considering 10+ years ago points costs and in order to keep the current 2000 points format things can't become too cheap. Even GW doesn't want that.

I'd just want an AP-1 for choppas, which is not unreasonable since chainswords have it and choppas have always been orks chainsword. It would also be fluffy: in 3rd edition choppas limited the enemy save to a 4+ which means an actual AP-1 against MEQs and even an AP-2 against TEQs.

IMHO the majority of ork weapons should get a -1AP bonus.

If nobz go down to 11 points, where do you put burna boyz?

Since nobz have lost everything that made them different from MANz, there simply will never be a case where both units are viable.
Those goff nobz from white dwarf actually were a good step in the right direction WS2+ and +1 attack while near their warboss would have made them a great unit for riding bonebreakers or trukks, but sadly no matched play points for them.
Maybe they get added to the codex similar to the wolfs of morkai, but we all know orks can't have nice things

I'd love to see:

Cybork = -1 to damage, all models can take it (points or stratagem, maybe chance to recover strat cost if you have a big mek)
Twin boomstikks - yes please!
Jump-packs - why wouldn't stormboy nobs get together? possibly a separate unit!
WS2+ - this thing lives to hit things, it should be good at it!
troops - I want to make an army with nobs instead of boys, it would be much more better! also objsec!

Alternatively, I'd like to see multiple versions of nobs as separate units. EG:

Skorcha Nobs = burna boys on 'roids
Tankbusta Nobs = tankbustas on 'roids
stormboy nobs = stormboys on 'roids

etc.

so they get some more fancy weapons (EG tankbustas, one nob for every 5 can take a "Big Rokkit" which is S10 AP-4, gets hot. Skorcha Nobs could have their own dedicated transport which bumps their range up.
Stormboy Nobs could have new close combat weapons which attack units they move over.

I like the idea of units having their own unique things rather than 3 units with a variation of the exact same rule (out of thin air example, if each of these units had a "on a 4+, they can act again in the "X" phase). no stagnant rules!

 some bloke wrote:
I'd love to see:

Cybork = -1 to damage, all models can take it (points or stratagem, maybe chance to recover strat cost if you have a big mek)
Twin boomstikks - yes please!
Jump-packs - why wouldn't stormboy nobs get together? possibly a separate unit!
WS2+ - this thing lives to hit things, it should be good at it!
troops - I want to make an army with nobs instead of boys, it would be much more better! also objsec!

Alternatively, I'd like to see multiple versions of nobs as separate units. EG:

Skorcha Nobs = burna boys on 'roids
Tankbusta Nobs = tankbustas on 'roids
stormboy nobs = stormboys on 'roids

etc.

so they get some more fancy weapons (EG tankbustas, one nob for every 5 can take a "Big Rokkit" which is S10 AP-4, gets hot. Skorcha Nobs could have their own dedicated transport which bumps their range up.
Stormboy Nobs could have new close combat weapons which attack units they move over.

I like the idea of units having their own unique things rather than 3 units with a variation of the exact same rule (out of thin air example, if each of these units had a "on a 4+, they can act again in the "X" phase). no stagnant rules!

With all this, we have to rely on GW making kits for these models. I wouldnt like Stormboy Nobz as a unit, having a chance of them dying when they use their rokkit packs and being expensive as well... it will just give you feel bad moments, id rather pay more for Nob bikers and not risk blowing myself up.

 deffrekka wrote:


With all this, we have to rely on GW making kits for these models. I wouldnt like Stormboy Nobz as a unit, having a chance of them dying when they use their rokkit packs and being expensive as well... it will just give you feel bad moments, id rather pay more for Nob bikers and not risk blowing myself up.

I'd like the option. Jump-nobs will have a different application to biker-nobs, being able to climb ruins and skip over terrain being a key aspect. IIRC, stormboys only lose models if they advance (and that only if they auto-6, am I remembering right?) so Nob stormboys would be safe unless they had to go extra-fast, which is a player choice, and as you say, not one taken lightly.

When do you guys think the new FW rules will be on Battlescribe?
I find creating new lists without BS very time consuming and difficult.

BS typically updates 1-2 weeks after a release.

It took longer for the marine+necron one because the marine codex was fething complicated as hell and huge. FW isnt compllicated at all, theres hardly any rules outside of the datasheets (something i was honestly hoping for was FW kustom jobs)

The BS guys are currently struggling with getting the marine and necron stuff done, it might take some time.

 Bonde wrote:
When do you guys think the new FW rules will be on Battlescribe?
I find creating new lists without BS very time consuming and difficult.

If you have the FW stats/points you can go into the... Data editor and add/remove option and adjust numbers.
Takes a bit of looking to find the right links but there's no coding or anything involved it's just text boxes and /yes/no arguments.

 some bloke wrote:

 deffrekka wrote:


With all this, we have to rely on GW making kits for these models. I wouldnt like Stormboy Nobz as a unit, having a chance of them dying when they use their rokkit packs and being expensive as well... it will just give you feel bad moments, id rather pay more for Nob bikers and not risk blowing myself up.

I'd like the option. Jump-nobs will have a different application to biker-nobs, being able to climb ruins and skip over terrain being a key aspect. IIRC, stormboys only lose models if they advance (and that only if they auto-6, am I remembering right?) so Nob stormboys would be safe unless they had to go extra-fast, which is a player choice, and as you say, not one taken lightly.

What role would you have them do that stormboyz cant? And what price would they be? Currently stormboyz pay a 4pts premium ontop of the standard boyz cost so that would put nobz with rokkit packs at 21ppm before gear which is pretty expensive and again 9pts more from that gives you the biker statline and dakkaguns to boot. Yeah they cant ignore terrain like fly but when charging you still have to traverse terrain normally like any infantry would so its only the movement phase that they get to ignore terrain and models.

I would rather stormboyz get better at their role before adding in another unit to supersede them making them functionally worthless. Same with tankbustas, burnas, lootas, etc. These units are iconic and should be brought up in line with other units. Creating a new Nob unit to replace their role pretty much is not the best way. Most orks grow out of being stormboyz anyway it's usually the yoofs than join the korps.

Give burnas actually proper flamers, 12" range d6 shots. Make pyromanics ignore light/heavy cover. Make lootas like obliterators, str 6+d3 apd3 damage d3 to represent the myriad of different weapons in the unit, they arent all solid slug weapons there is looted lascannons and fusion blasters in there. Pair this with meks of a strat that allow rerolls to the characteristics like obliterators get access too. Tankbustas should get more shots, their rokkit launchas have multiple rokkits on the model, in DOW2 and 3 they fire 3 rokkits at a time. I'd rather these changes be done that creating a nob equivalent for each of these.

I'd dont think making Orkz into primaris is the way to go. Nobz are cool and all but the majority of a Waaagh is made up with your standard boy, even in a Waaagh like Ghaz's. He might have a higher proportion of Nobz and Scarboyz but those flocking to his battles are your standard Waaaghs joining up.

 deffrekka wrote:

 some bloke wrote:

 deffrekka wrote:


With all this, we have to rely on GW making kits for these models. I wouldnt like Stormboy Nobz as a unit, having a chance of them dying when they use their rokkit packs and being expensive as well... it will just give you feel bad moments, id rather pay more for Nob bikers and not risk blowing myself up.

I'd like the option. Jump-nobs will have a different application to biker-nobs, being able to climb ruins and skip over terrain being a key aspect. IIRC, stormboys only lose models if they advance (and that only if they auto-6, am I remembering right?) so Nob stormboys would be safe unless they had to go extra-fast, which is a player choice, and as you say, not one taken lightly.

What role would you have them do that stormboyz cant? And what price would they be? Currently stormboyz pay a 4pts premium ontop of the standard boyz cost so that would put nobz with rokkit packs at 21ppm before gear which is pretty expensive and again 9pts more from that gives you the biker statline and dakkaguns to boot. Yeah they cant ignore terrain like fly but when charging you still have to traverse terrain normally like any infantry would so its only the movement phase that they get to ignore terrain and models.

I would rather stormboyz get better at their role before adding in another unit to supersede them making them functionally worthless. Same with tankbustas, burnas, lootas, etc. These units are iconic and should be brought up in line with other units. Creating a new Nob unit to replace their role pretty much is not the best way. Most orks grow out of being stormboyz anyway it's usually the yoofs than join the korps.

Give burnas actually proper flamers, 12" range d6 shots. Make pyromanics ignore light/heavy cover. Make lootas like obliterators, str 6+d3 apd3 damage d3 to represent the myriad of different weapons in the unit, they arent all solid slug weapons there is looted lascannons and fusion blasters in there. Pair this with meks of a strat that allow rerolls to the characteristics like obliterators get access too. Tankbustas should get more shots, their rokkit launchas have multiple rokkits on the model, in DOW2 and 3 they fire 3 rokkits at a time. I'd rather these changes be done that creating a nob equivalent for each of these.

I'd dont think making Orkz into primaris is the way to go. Nobz are cool and all but the majority of a Waaagh is made up with your standard boy, even in a Waaagh like Ghaz's. He might have a higher proportion of Nobz and Scarboyz but those flocking to his battles are your standard Waaaghs joining up.

Well, one role that stormnobs would fill would be arriving via deepstrike with special weapons, EG skorchas.

I would like to keep the eparation of Nobs and Boys. I would prefer to see Nobs fill a special-weapons role more than a primaris-boys one. what makes Nobs interesting is that every model can have a special weapon, not one per 10 or just the nob.

I would also love to see some more love for our Boys. I find it somewhat disheartening to think that out troops have 2 loadout options, rokkits and pk's aside. Having a unit of 'ard boys with lower movement but better saves would be awesome. Having a unit of spanna boys with experimental weaponry (power choppas, mini-klaws, zappy-shootas).

More interesting units, I say!

 Diakos wrote:

 Bonde wrote:
When do you guys think the new FW rules will be on Battlescribe?
I find creating new lists without BS very time consuming and difficult.

If you have the FW stats/points you can go into the... Data editor and add/remove option and adjust numbers.
Takes a bit of looking to find the right links but there's no coding or anything involved it's just text boxes and /yes/no arguments.

Thanks man, I did not know that BS had this feature!

I think the starting point for making Nobs useful is to make them Troops.

I think Buzzgob now makes Deff dread with 4x Kustom Mega blasta a pretty intetesting thing, maybe you could even give it sparkly bits. It sound better than going Death skulls for the reroll thing. But of course if you went death skulls you could reroll several deff dreads where as Goff Buzzgob can only buff one unit, and the Deff dreads are seperated once they are deployed.

Or maybe rokkit Killa kanz who all have sparkly bits as their kustom job in a unit, then with his buffs they should hit on 2s. thats pretty okay.

Kinda sad the Grot tanks lost their shooter they got for free though. It never did much but it did do something and i just wasted time making small shootas to put on.

Also a note: I think Battlescribe has updated the ork forge world units.

Whisper it quietly but I think the Kustom Stompa may actually be competitive now.

With a few caveats;
You need to be Evil Sunz for visions in the smoke
Further to that you need a big blob of 30 ork boys to babysit the weirdboy to make the visions go off on 6+.
You then need to dump Dakka Dakka on it.

So yeah, you are spending a ton of resources, BUT having just deleted an Ad Mech army on T2 with the firepower on this thing I think its interesting.
He had 6 of the twin Lascannon chickens and a big unit of the Lost in space robots so he was geared up to kill "knights" he took 20 wounds off and then got deleted.
My rolling wasn't even that hot, the dakka dakka with full re-rolls is just very effective.

I think the price base of 850 pts is just about viable and allows you to bring enough other stuff to play the primaries.

It's only one game but it felt OP powerful.

It's certainly worth a try PE, but that's a single big model with a lot of support dumped into it. IF the opponent manages to take it out it may be an uphill fight from there.

Had a game against a white scars army this weekend. Made a list centred around 2 warbosses on bikes and a pair of 5 man nob biker units, backed up by some orkymatic piston dreads and a pair of bone breakers.

Sadly the terrain made some chokepoints so I only really got the nobs into combat with some intercessors. The first few turns were okay as I ground down his mid tier units, held objectives and scored early. His redemptor wiffed against my smashboss and got one shot in return with damage to spare. Even off the charge Rollas are no joke.

Also a big chunk of my damage was blunted by a combo of transhuman plus interrupt stratagems to first stop damage then attack another unit before it can even swing. I need to plan around that combo better.

Marine bikers are kinda bull. Way too powerful for what you pay. And on turn 3 they can even chop their way through tanks with laughable ease.

But damn do smashbosses have a tonne of capacity and dreads can move fast, hit hard but hate transhuman with a passion.