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Via Bell of Lost Souls:
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Shooting
-There's now a reason to have a BS higher than 5 (can we say 2+/5+?).
-All models friend or foe now block line of sight. Vehicles and Monstrous Creature can be targeted over intervening infantry.
-Area terrain does not block line of sight.
-All blast weapons now scatter.

Vehicles
-Defensive weapons on vehicles are now Str 4 and below.
-Skimmers Moving Fast is now a 5+ cover save. (I have heard this is the new rule for All Obscured Targets)
-Dedicated transports can now carry any unit (subject to normal restrictions, i.e., no Terminators) and are no longer the deathtraps they have been (no entangling, just pinning).
-AP 1 weapons add +1 to the vehicle damage chart instead of doing as they do now.
-Ordinance weapons roll 2d6 and pick the highest on the vehicle damage table.

Miscellaneous
-Independent Character targeting restrictions have been eased.
-There is no IC protection any longer unless he is joined to a unit
-ICs within 2" of a unit automatically join it.
-Dark Eldar are not gone, as they're mentioned in the rules (their jetbikes DO get the 6" assault).
-Frag grenades operate as plasma grenades now.
-Monstrous creatures get move through cover, not a reroll.
-Saving Throws are now made AFTER wound allocation. This means you could still roll all your generic troopers as a group, but will need to roll for each special model (serg, heavy weapons, etc) one by one. Torrent of Fire is gone.

Missions
-The missions are different enough that Troops only counting as scoring isn't as big a deal as it would be today.
-Victory points are calculated differently in "cleanse" style missions (points calculated depending on the FOC slot the dead unit took up).
-Scouts and Infiltrators can now try to outflank the enemy and come on as reserves from a different board edge.
-Deepstrike is the same, but if you can't place all the models, you roll on the "deepstrike mishap" table (50% you're dead, 50% you place yourself anywhere you like).

Overall, the rules look a lot more detailed. Not as detailed as 2nd edition, but now there's a difference between a guy standing on the roof of a building and a guy standing in the basement. Actual line of sight matters a lot more than "pretend" line of sight now.
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IC nerf seems unneeded, other than that I like pretty much everything.

I like it.

Not sure about the new "torrent of fire" rules though, its going to make rolling for saves take much more time than it has.

I also dont really understand why they changed the strength of defensive weapons. I've always thought it was better that heavy bolters are always shooting...

Those vehicle rules are a farking train wreck.

For those crying in agony over this latest batch of rumours, I'd like to direct you:

Here:
http://www.revisitedproject.org/

Here:
http://www.revisitedproject.org/

And here:
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/revisited_project/

Thankyou!

BYE

Longshot wrote:Those vehicle rules are a farking train wreck.

How so? Transports are better, Skimmers get nerfed. The defensive weapon thing hurts, granted, but I'll trade Heavy Bolter sponsons that can fire on the move for ditching Entanglement any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

Salvation122 wrote:-There's now a reason to have a BS higher than 5 (can we say 2+/5+?).

We did it first...

Salvation122 wrote:-All models friend or foe now block line of sight.

I suppose that's better than target priority tests.

Salvation122 wrote:-Area terrain does not block line of sight.

O... k... ?

Salvation122 wrote:-All blast weapons now scatter.

Making them even more useless. Wonderful.

Salvation122 wrote:-Defensive weapons on vehicles are now Str 4 and below.

*blinks*

Wha... ?

That's a stupid one. Most defensive guns these days are S5 Shuriken Cannons or Heavy Bolters. How does this rule HELP vehicles?

Salvation122 wrote:-ICs within 2" of a unit automatically join it.

That's so silly it can't be real.

Salvation122 wrote:-Frag grenades operate as plasma grenades now.

Because having three types of non-lethal grenades in the game was too complicated.

Salvation122 wrote:-Saving Throws are now made AFTER wound allocation. This means you could still roll all your generic troopers as a group, but will need to roll for each special model (serg, heavy weapons, etc) one by one. Torrent of Fire is gone.

Yeah. That'll speed things up.

BYE

Do we know how reliable these rumour releases are?

Salvation122 wrote:
-There's now a reason to have a BS higher than 5 (can we say 2+/5+?).

What is the 5+? Ignore cover? Ignore intervening models?

-All models friend or foe now block line of sight. Vehicles and Monstrous Creature can be targeted over intervening infantry.

So 6th Edition will have models not blocking LOS again?!? It'd be nice if GW could make up its mind.

-All blast weapons now scatter.

That's one way to stop the annoyance of Blast sniping.

-Defensive weapons on vehicles are now Str 4 and below.

So basic firepower like SBs, Shuricats, & Chimera Lasguns have some use on Tanks? OK. Nice move to reduce lethality BTW.

-Skimmers Moving Fast is now a 5+ cover save. (I have heard this is the new rule for All Obscured Targets)

This is nice and improves consistency between vehicles and infantry.

Of course, now I want to see the details of the new damage chart.

-Dedicated transports can now carry any unit (subject to normal restrictions, i.e., no Terminators) and are no longer the deathtraps they have been (no entangling, just pinning).

This is a pretty big change, and very good for mobile play.

-AP 1 weapons add +1 to the vehicle damage chart instead of doing as they do now.
-Ordinance weapons roll 2d6 and pick the highest on the vehicle damage table.

Nice. These weapons just got properly scarier.

-Independent Character targeting restrictions have been eased.
-There is no IC protection any longer unless he is joined to a unit
-ICs within 2" of a unit automatically join it.

Good. Too much BS monkeying around with ICs before, anyways.

-Saving Throws are now made AFTER wound allocation. This means you could still roll all your generic troopers as a group, but will need to roll for each special model (serg, heavy weapons, etc) one by one. Torrent of Fire is gone.

OK, tho I don't see how this really changes things.

-The missions are different enough that Troops only counting as scoring isn't as big a deal as it would be today.

OK, tho we'll need to see the mission tables. Hopefully it's not another rehash of the same basic missions.

-Victory points are calculated differently in "cleanse" style missions (points calculated depending on the FOC slot the dead unit took up).

Interesting that GW would make this even more complicated, when supposedly they're streaminling.

-Scouts and Infiltrators can now try to outflank the enemy and come on as reserves from a different board edge.

Good! Scouts and Infiltrators got a lot more usable.

-Deepstrike is the same, but if you can't place all the models, you roll on the "deepstrike mishap" table (50% you're dead, 50% you place yourself anywhere you like).

This can lead to some very wierd things happening.

Deadshane1 wrote:I also dont really understand why they changed the strength of defensive weapons.

It's because they wanted to further clarify thebattlefield roles of the various Tanks vs Transports. In particular, it nerfs the Eldar grav tanks and their plethora of S6 weapons.

JohnHwangDD wrote:It's because they wanted to further clarify thebattlefield roles of the various Tanks vs Transports. In particular, it nerfs the Eldar grav tanks and their plethora of S6 weapons.

It nerfs tanks across the board, not just Eldar.

Remember all those autocannon / HB Preds people have been putting into their armies...Not even NEARLY as usefull anymore, lemans are hurt by it, Ravagers, Speeders maybe.....

It nerfs tanks across the board, not just Eldar.

Remember all those autocannon / HB Preds people have been putting into their armies...Not even NEARLY as useful anymore, lemans are hurt by it, Ravagers, Speeders maybe.....

I was gunna say that. But it does hit Falcons hard. Now the best option is shuriken cannon + catapults, ie: cheapest. Not that offensive power was a forte of the Falcon in the first place, but who knows how skimmers will fair in the end. Sooo many changes.

With the new scoring unit/sniper/infiltrate rules I foresee eldar pathfinders becoming amazing-- by far the troop choice of choice.

-Leo037

JohnHwangDD wrote:It's because they wanted to further clarify thebattlefield roles of the various Tanks vs Transports. In particular, it nerfs the Eldar grav tanks and their plethora of S6 weapons.

It doesn't clarify tanks, though. It means they move and have minimal firepower, or has them sit still like the pillbox tanks of third ed. The problem with tanks in 4th is it didn't go far enough in making them mobile and shooty.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Because having three types of non-lethal grenades in the game was too complicated.

Who said anything about the current system being too complicated. Why would you mention 'complication', unless it was to score a cheap point or two?

I've seen units advance so they'll have to go through cover to reach their target, meaning they'll both attack at the same time. The current system is a mess and leads to some ludicrous results, like space marines deliberately avoiding cover when they're about to be charged by orks. I've seen 'stealers lashed into cover so khorne bezerkers can charge them and both units will go at the same time. It's ridiculous situation at present, and this is a simple rule to get rid of too common ridiculousness.

Nothing to do with 'complication' at all.

He was being sarcastic.

The point of tanks is that they are mobile firepower. If they take that away from them, there's no point in using them any more *shrugs*. Only use for them might be Rhino transports, but we'll see.

>>-Defensive weapons on vehicles are now Str 4 and below.

Perhaps it means that only weapons of Str4 or less are counted as defensive.

Tau don't have any weapons with less that Str5. How is it that the burst cannon or the SMS on a tank is going to be weaker than the "same weapon" carried by a crisis suit.

Some good stuff in there. Hard to say whether the nonsensical stuff will overwhelm the good stuff.

Or they could be making it such that a Tank no longer has the restriction that when it moves it can only fire 1 main weapon and all defensive weapons.

At least one would hope anyway.

Kilkrazy wrote:Perhaps it means that only weapons of Str4 or less are counted as defensive.

Pretty sure we all got that one there.

And I don't believe it, as every gun on Tau vehicles is S5 except for the two bigger ones, so... what... a Devilfish's Burst Cannon is a Main Weapon and therefore cannot be fired if it moves more than 6"? I guess Main Battle Tanks will be reverting back to Main Battle Bunkers like they were in 3rd Ed. Way to go GW. Push that pendulum! Hard as ya can!

But I think if they do change it it'll be S5 and below.

BYE

I'm beginning to think these new rules are written using some sort of random rules generator. Are they just trying to remove all the Pete Haines rules from 5th edition?

The problem with defensive weapons isn't their Str it's their range. Anyone can use any transport? 30 Harlequins in borrowed wave serpents anyone? Just when you thought 40k couldn't get any worse, I hope these stay rumors and never become rules.

I dunno, everyone is being so negative about a lot of these, but I'm going to hold out that this will work out pretty well in the end.

Wasn't troops screening things a feature of 3rd edition?

Some good bits in their, esp. scouts.

hopefully tanks will get to fire more main weapons. Maybe the defensive weapons will always be able to fire?... If not then bunkers are back. defeats the point, why not take heavy weapon squads unless your desperate for big blasts, but then if all blast scatter then it wouldn't be that much of a loss. Frags are weak anyway even if they do scatter (ok, maybe not but i tend to end up fighting power armour) but plasmas that now scatter? I remember when they used to (or at least we played that way years ago) and it meant that you didn't always think carefully about targets. If it misses it may hit something else. I know one player insisted on aiming in between squads BECUASE it would scatter and he was more likly to hit something by aiming to miss.......

I think transports need to be more flexible but not THAT flexible. Just a little something e.g. something that says if you take a SM assualt squad and remove jump packs then they can have a rhino or something.

What is 2+/5+"?

That should make ork custom force fields completely worthless. And good luck having lootas shooting at anything with 30 of their boyz in the way. Although I could take 3 full units of kommandoes now with 2 burnas each and pop up behind enemy lines. That seems fair, or not.

Ahahahahaha. Assault lists are making a comeback. Yay.

Also, while fish of fury will no longer work (now we can end the reign of the mech tau list in tournaments!), I'm gonna start using a piranha rush with a huge farsight unit trailing behind them.

I honestly don't know why. But it does sound fun.

Some serious Fantasy impact here.
2+/5+ is for having a BS of 6 or higher. Basically you roll to hit on a 2+. If it fails, you can reroll and hit on a 5+, giving you another chance of hitting your intended target. The reroll gets better the more BS you got.

Also Combat resolution (not in this chart) and IC are targetable (the IC hiding was erased in 7th edition fantasy).

I like many of these, but some sound rather strange, I have to agree on that. Making defensive weapons S4 or lower? Mh, only with a serious reconstruction of the vehicle firing chart. I like the 5+ ward save though.

The new torrent of fire is rather nice as far as I understand it. Now you can "snipe" the sarge and the heavy weapon guy with one big volley of fire (All get wounds times x, then roll the armor save) Further supports players to bring some basic guys into the field.

Target restriction (aka screening) is the stinkness! Nothing more annoying than a heavy weapon squad with nothing to shoot at. The screening solution of H.B.M.C.'s Group was rather good, or a ward save like the grot save ork armies got...

Greets
Schepp himself

Wow, if all Scouts & Infiltrators can come on from another board edge, what's the point of Snikrot, now we can do it with normal PK Nobz!

Definitely going to be something interesting going forward, I'm just going to be glad to see the game completely shook up.

I believe these rumors. The cynic would say it forces competitive Tau and Eldar players to dump their existing builds and buy new minis. It also means a return of large troop numbers-again the sale of more minis. In light of the rumored prices in the new Demon dex I think thats a focus.

On a list for balance sake (aka no profit motivator hah hah)
*I could see a cover save for skimmers. I would give them 4+ however. The cover save would have to be in addition to the armor save. But in light of GW’s past overkill this sounds likely.

*models blocking. That’s straight out of V2. Its more believable to me actually. Orks, swarm nids and swarm demons just got better.

*pinning only. Can one say-rhino rush?

*Defensive 4 only. Reinforces the above rhino rush. This one makes me scratch my head as to why. There was no major need for this that I was aware of (see cynic position above). Really nerfs eldar, Tau, and those giants of the tourney scene –mech Guard.

*Terrain not blocking LOS. Barring the six inch rule this also has me scratching my head. Turns the table into well, a table. With a six inch rule it makes it more realistic and I’m more ok with that.

HELLO 9 KANNON ORK LISTS! HURR

I'm envisioning an absolute horde of bloodletters, running behind Nurgle swarms (with other BL's deepstriking in). Unbound defilers bringing up the rear.

I'm also envisioning the return of SAFH marines and maybe rhino rush.