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Avatar 720 wrote:I HATE Blackreach ¬.¬

Blackreach is one of my favorite TES environments, ever. I was not expecting it at all, and I ended up wandering around for a while after I cleared it out.

I hate Blackreach only because it's infested with Falmer.

Did i miss something in Black Reach?
Seemed to be a fairly standard dungeon... though all/most of the dungeons in Skyrim seem to be fairly unique from each other...

Coolyo294 wrote:I hate Blackreach only because it's infested with Falmer.

You to to black reach for the (SPOILER) to learn the shout from the hero's right? I liked it, lots of centurions for grand soul gems and good XP.

Mel, what do you mean by cheating? Are you talking not using the iron dagger overload? Because for the most part I did that, but my Nord is currently wearing Dragonplate gloves, boots, helm, and shield with some daedric armor... Of course, this is all when he is not moonlighting as the Arch-Mage of Winterhold...

I don't think spamming Iron Daggers is cheating per say.

Abusing the system perhaps.



But seriously, how else are you supposed to level up your skill. its not like just making your own equipment is going to get you to level 100.

Grey Templar wrote:I don't think spamming Iron Daggers is cheating per say.

Abusing the system perhaps.



But seriously, how else are you supposed to level up your skill. its not like just making your own equipment is going to get you to level 100.

This. With unbreakeable gear, once you smith the stuff you need, you don't have to smith it again.

Iron Daggers just seems right. Like you practice enough, and you can do it amazingly.

I was slightly disappointed when I became able to make dragon plate, not because the armor didnt look cool, but because I couldnt craft any sort of "Dragon Part Weapon A" (ie. Dragon bone War Axe).. I think it would have been cool to have a bone sword or something made from a dragon while running in the armor from a dragon that I made

Either Falmor or Forsaken stuff looks like more "Bone" weapon.

Falmor Chitin, but whatever!

I am finding the balances of the system to be a little odd.

Why do Falmer and Forsworn weapons do so much damage? I don't like the looks of either, for my character anyway, but I do use a forsworn bow. Bone, stone, and teeth can only get you so far in the weapons enviroment.



When strips of leather and bone provide more protection then a suit of iron you know something is wrong.

Since most Forsworn Follow/worship a hagraven, their equipment could be blessed by the Hagraven.

Only thing I can think of for Falmer is Elven crafting makes everything better... Which would technically work out in Oblivion. IIRC Elven and Glass are the two best(barring dragon) for light armor.

Glass, IIRC, like Ebony were made by special Materials only found in Morrowind(Prior to Skyrim) and normally only made by Dunmer smiths. Elven is well... Armor made by Elves(once against, prior to Skyrim, so this Boat doesn't hold water very well anymore).

Falmer are Molemen Goblins

Molemen always have good stuff

Also I'm thinking of downloading some potion retextures, kinda debating on one of these three


Skyrim original for comparison, looks so ugly

Ceramic looks the classiest.

yeah, its definitly the most natural looking.

Although Ornate looks pretty cool. Can you get a partial patch with that only being on the big fancy potions?



On a side note: Anyone thing they should have had a glass recycling program? I mean I must burn through 20 potions a week, it seems wasteful to toss away the bottles.

Grey Templar wrote:

Although Ornate looks pretty cool. Can you get a partial patch with that only being on the big fancy potions?

Well I suppose if you cherry picked through the files, maybe

Manchu wrote:Intentionality:

- Because they are complex, or perhaps one of the facets of being complex is that bad guy quests require you to participate more deeply -- to carefully plan and deftly enact that assassination, theft, torture, etc.

- Good guy quests are just fighting, little thinking. "Oh that was an evil necromancer? Okay, fine." The best example of this is preventing the Wolf Queen's return: "fight, fight, fight, fight, oh look the world happened to get saved." Same with dragons.

I think your complaint is fair.

It's kind of a challenge in game design in general, though, to make good actions as interesting as the evil ones, it reminds me of a quote from Simon Weil;
"Imaginary evil is romantic and varied; real evil is gloomy, monotonous, barren, boring. Imaginary good is boring; real good is always new, marvelous, intoxicating."

I had a good time being a boy scout in Mass Effect and ME2. Sweet Talos, am I praising BioWare over Bethesda? What is the world coming to?

Once again, that's where Mods come in. We've already had a lot of good ideas for Good character quests, why not follow through on them?

Anvildude wrote:Once again, that's where Mods come in. We've already had a lot of good ideas for Good character quests, why not follow through on them?

While I like the promise of more quests(even though I still haven't finished them all yet) I tend to find modded in quests a bit of an immersion breaker. In Oblivion almost all the modded quests had no form of voice acting which was annoying imo.

kenshin620 wrote:Falmer are Molemen Goblins

Molemen always have good stuff

Also I'm thinking of downloading some potion retextures, kinda debating on one of these three

Spoiler:

Skyrim original for comparison, looks so ugly

Spoiler:

I prefer the originals to be honest...

As for mods, skyrim on the PC will have an official modding creation kit AND the mods made with said kit will be available for download/installation via steam. Modding is not only sanctioned but encouraged so there is no reason not to make a dakkadakka-do-gooders guild (tm)!

That said console gamers (excepting maybe the ps3 due to valves deal with sony regarding the linkage of psn and steam account, but that is just speculation) don't have access to this modding goodness.

Manchu wrote:I had a good time being a boy scout in Mass Effect and ME2. Sweet Talos, am I praising BioWare over Bethesda? What is the world coming to?

True, but Mass Effect had what you were going to do all laid out for you, the only variation was in how you did it. That is, the main quest was the bulk of the game, and the roleplaying options were mostly just how you did it. The optional side quests (by memory, I only played ME 1 and that was a long time ago) weren't particularly good or evil.

In Skyrim, with it's much looser quest system, I can see it being very difficult to lay out an extensive network of 'good' quests, outside of the main campaign.

I think the real issue in Skyrim was that very few of the 'evil' quests had options for 'good' resolutions. For example there's that quest for the Thalmar, where you are asked to go and prove that a guy is a Talos worshipper. So you break into his house and steal a Talos prayer book, and go back and report it. But there's no option to go warn the guy the Thalmar are onto him, or to go and lie to the Thalmar and tell him there was no evidence. Similarly, why can't I tell the authorities about the cannibals?

johnscott10 wrote:

Anvildude wrote:Once again, that's where Mods come in. We've already had a lot of good ideas for Good character quests, why not follow through on them?

While I like the promise of more quests(even though I still haven't finished them all yet) I tend to find modded in quests a bit of an immersion breaker. In Oblivion almost all the modded quests had no form of voice acting which was annoying imo.

Well thats why as it turns out, making quest mods isnt as simple as some may think

Sure you can make model and texture mods, but ones that require voice acting can be a lot harder

I think in all my months of playing Fallout NV, I've only found 5 or so good quest mods with voice acting (two of them were Bounty mods, another had to do with the Bison Hotel) compared to say 20-30 weapon/texture mods

corpsesarefun wrote:
I prefer the originals to be honest...

Well there was a plain jane glass high res with little, if any, extra texturing. although the page just went down. Funnily enough the mod was called "Silly Level of detail"

sebster wrote:

Manchu wrote:I had a good time being a boy scout in Mass Effect and ME2. Sweet Talos, am I praising BioWare over Bethesda? What is the world coming to?

True, but Mass Effect had what you were going to do all laid out for you, the only variation was in how you did it. That is, the main quest was the bulk of the game, and the roleplaying options were mostly just how you did it. The optional side quests (by memory, I only played ME 1 and that was a long time ago) weren't particularly good or evil.

In Skyrim, with it's much looser quest system, I can see it being very difficult to lay out an extensive network of 'good' quests, outside of the main campaign.

I think the real issue in Skyrim was that very few of the 'evil' quests had options for 'good' resolutions. For example there's that quest for the Thalmar, where you are asked to go and prove that a guy is a Talos worshipper. So you break into his house and steal a Talos prayer book, and go back and report it. But there's no option to go warn the guy the Thalmar are onto him, or to go and lie to the Thalmar and tell him there was no evidence. Similarly, why can't I tell the authorities about the cannibals?

Or similarly, why can't I go to a priest and report that yes, that goddamned house IS haunted by a powerful daedra lord, and you should kill it with fire or something. Hell, why can'tI just subdue the idiot priest who gives in, instead of killing him? (like tie him up or something)

I finished the main quest with my first char, at around level 50. I didn't kill that other dragon though that Max Von Sydow wants me to kill, cuz that dragon was nice to me.

Anyway I started over as a high elf mage and doing mostly destruction & conjuration. Like level 12 now, and I'm trying to do it without fast traveling ever. Well, maybe if I have super long hike from one end of the world to the other. But so far I've just been wandering around, checking out dungeons and caves that I find. Having a lot more fun just exploring.

sebster wrote:I think the real issue in Skyrim was that very few of the 'evil' quests had options for 'good' resolutions. For example there's that quest for the Thalmar, where you are asked to go and prove that a guy is a Talos worshipper. So you break into his house and steal a Talos prayer book, and go back and report it. But there's no option to go warn the guy the Thalmar are onto him, or to go and lie to the Thalmar and tell him there was no evidence. Similarly, why can't I tell the authorities about the cannibals?

This is a great point, especially about those particular quest -- and the one Melissia brings up, too. All of Markarth in fact felt fethed up. Not just in terms of there being little "good" to be done; it just felt rushed/shoddily plotted. Although "good" options would make for a huge improvement, I still think a "good" faction on par substance-wise with the Dark Brotherhood or Thieve's Guild is necessary.

Manchu wrote:

sebster wrote:I think the real issue in Skyrim was that very few of the 'evil' quests had options for 'good' resolutions. For example there's that quest for the Thalmar, where you are asked to go and prove that a guy is a Talos worshipper. So you break into his house and steal a Talos prayer book, and go back and report it. But there's no option to go warn the guy the Thalmar are onto him, or to go and lie to the Thalmar and tell him there was no evidence. Similarly, why can't I tell the authorities about the cannibals?

This is a great point, especially about those particular quest -- and the one Melissia brings up, too. All of Markarth in fact felt fethed up. Not just in terms of there being little "good" to be done; it just felt rushed/shoddily plotted. Although "good" options would make for a huge improvement, I still think a "good" faction on par substance-wise with the Dark Brotherhood or Thieve's Guild is necessary.

The Mages Guild.

/duh

Wut.

The Mages Guild is not a good guy quest line. It's hard to imagine how you even came to that conclusion.

The Companions seemed good for a while, but I was iffy when I got near the end.

Manchu wrote:Wut.

The Mages Guild is not a good guy quest line. It's hard to imagine how you even came to that conclusion.

Well, you save the god damned universe.

I'd say that's pretty heroic.

Chowderhead wrote:

Manchu wrote:Wut.

The Mages Guild is not a good guy quest line. It's hard to imagine how you even came to that conclusion.

Well, you save the god damned universe.

I'd say that's pretty heroic.

You only save it because you unleashed it in the first place. It isn't so much good or heroic as it is "You broke it now you can bloody fix it."