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Where did tzaangors come in? I thought we were talking pinks vs cultists.

Tzaangors are much harder to value. They get a max squad of 20, they have the same gun if your silly enough to run them that way, but their real strength comes in cc vs charecters. Personally i go tzaangors then pinks, i dont bother with cultists. But they do have value in some lists.

I love Tgors but they are usually a 8+ charge difference between being great and being dead

 xeen wrote:
I love Tgors but they are usually a 8+ charge difference between being great and being dead

Edit.

8+ charge isn't hard to do. Between 'Gaze of Fate' and Command Point reroll it should be easy. Its one of the few charges that shouldn't be an issue in this game after all of these FAQ updates.

No warp time after deepstrike. But even with re-roll I have seen it missed enough times. I still love them though

Azuza001 wrote:
Where did tzaangors come in? I thought we were talking pinks vs cultists.

Tzaangors are much harder to value. They get a max squad of 20, they have the same gun if your silly enough to run them that way, but their real strength comes in cc vs charecters. Personally i go tzaangors then pinks, i dont bother with cultists. But they do have value in some lists.

Thought Tzaangor infantry had 30 max squad size?

Nope, 20 squads. Cultists also have the ability to get an easy 5++ invuln from a psyker, and they cover a LOT more area for melee denial than Tzaanboys.

 vaklor4 wrote:
Nope, 20 squads. Cultists also have the ability to get an easy 5++ invuln from a psyker, and they cover a LOT more area for melee denial than Tzaanboys.

Read your book again pal, you're flat out wrong.

Sokhar wrote:

 vaklor4 wrote:
Nope, 20 squads. Cultists also have the ability to get an easy 5++ invuln from a psyker, and they cover a LOT more area for melee denial than Tzaanboys.

Read your book again pal, you're flat out wrong.

My mistake! Just double checked my book. I don't ever see them played locally, as we only have two T-sons players, and only one of them even runs Tzaangors, and usually its in squads of 20.

Yep my mistake. Tzaangors can do 30.

So, using DMC on a Tzaangor blob. 220 points for the 30 man squad.

My issue with this, is that if i know it is coming, i can often screen and sacrifice a unit or 2 for it not to be an issue.

It is part of the reason why i've started looking at using a big squad of Terminators to do the job instead, as their shooting can more than make up for the initial difference, and they can still have a reasonable chance at a charge using gaze of fate and a cp re-roll. They can also be a complete wall and pita to remove.

Screens are going to definitely be more of a thing, competitively, after this FAQ. Denying FLY charges is huge and it allows you to open up so many gaps in your own line if you know that things just can't get into them turn 1. Sure, 1 blob can wipe out 2 or 3 screening units straight away, but what happens then? Especially if those screens are a good 9-12" in front of the main army threat?

Personally, i'd rather have something with a bit more options going forward, whilst having a couple of cheap cultist units for my own turn 1 screens.

Turn 1 assaults need to be absolutely devastating now, and backed up by the rest of your army being in a position to capitalise straight after. I genuinely don't think a Tgor blob will give you that anymore - especially if the rest of your force is relying on smite spam behind a something like a Pink horror blob.

Imperium Soup isn't going to change much after the FAQ - at most you'll see the BA dropped out and additional Knights or Guard put in. If you can't get the the Castellan or other big threats then it doesn't matter how many Guard squads you kill turn 1 with smite and Tgor charges.

So we still can DMM tzangors turn 1 right? If they start on the table of course.

Right you are.

To those who have used the Helm of the Third Eye, how useful was it? I think the FAQ limits it now to gaining 1 CP per turn, now,but has the 5+ to gain a CP been a decent return for the relic?

is +1cp per round btw... i think it is still useful, usually you didn't get more than 1 pt per round before FAQ as well, at 5+u get back average 1 pt every 3 stratagems used by opponent.

It's still great if the opponent has 12-15 CP to start, because you'll get 2-3 on average. Against opponents with 9 or less I won't take it as the second relic, you are likely to only get enough back to pay for it.

Also keep in mind if you place him on the table first, any deployment stratagems (Screaming jetc, deep strike etc) you can gain multiple pregame.

If you have the slot to fill, 1cp to take the helm is worth it. 3cp is not. So if your running deamons that need a demonic relic (typically deamon princes) then i dont normally take it. If i am running mostly tsons with some deamons on the side (pinks, bloodletters, deamonettes, flamers.... the small stuff) then i do.

I usually only get like 2 to 3 per game anyway so I think the faq didn’t really hurt our CP regent that much

The FAQ was targeted at and predominantly affects armies with multiple sources of CP generation (read: Imperial Guard, and all the factions sucking on its CP-rich teat). Factions with just one source were already unlikely to get more than one per round without high rolls.

Yeah but the faq damaged the cp regen, it did nothing to stop the battery from starting at such a high point to start with.

I think the real issue is the player base and gw are at odds at how many factions there really are in the game. Gw says 7 (Imperial, Chaos, Tau, Necron, Orks, Eldar, Tyranids) and we say each sub part is its own army (Its not chaos, its Thousand Sons, Death Guard, Chaos Marines, and Chaos Deamons).

Once you get your head around this armies look different, but many gaming groups look down upon you if you play that way. (Your souping, not playing Thousand Sons!)

Sigh....

I soup, and I soup whole heartedly. But I also try to soup fluffy. If I bring T-sons, I soup in Tzeentch Daemons or CSM, I don't bring just Khorne Daemons. In reverse, i'll do the same with my world eaters, where if I don't bring T-sons, they sure as heck aren't bringing in Tzeentch Daemons instead of Khorne Daemons.

Of course, neither are particularly amazing in a tournament setting, but that's not exactly the point for a guy who strictly plays casual games at his own house or at the local store.

Guys, I'm completely lost with all those FAQs and Beta rules...

Can we use Warptime on a unit that was teleported with the Dark Matter Crystal ?? (if yes, can you point me to the FAQ that says so or explain clearly why we can ?)

 Nym wrote:
Guys, I'm completely lost with all those FAQs and Beta rules...

Can we use Warptime on a unit that was teleported with the Dark Matter Crystal ?? (if yes, can you point me to the FAQ that says so or explain clearly why we can ?)

The new beta rules didn't change anything in regards to the previous FAQ statements that preventing you from doing it.

So, no, you still can't warptime a unit that enters the battlefield in the same turn (DMC counts as leaving and re-entering the battlefield).

So what is everyones thoughts on Magnus? With all the big knights in the meta does he get shot off the board first turn every game? Is he worth the points?

He seemed to show up in a couple (above average) lists in the 2018 Nova.

Thanks!

If you dont get first turn he dies horribly. If you do he still dies pretty quick. He isn't as strong as a knight.

Ferrus126 wrote:
So what is everyones thoughts on Magnus? With all the big knights in the meta does he get shot off the board first turn every game? Is he worth the points?

He seemed to show up in a couple (above average) lists in the 2018 Nova.

Thanks!

He was slightly better than he will be now after this FAQ.

He still suffers from the high chance of getting shot off the table turn 1, but, he will now start every game with a 2+ armour save if he isn’t going first (though this only matters for 0 or -1 ap weapons).

However, fly took a big hit. He isn’t charging the big scary things turn 1 anymore as he’ll likely just get screened out.

That said, his damage output is still fantastic, and not every game is going to have a Knight you need to charge.

All in all, I think it is still a personal preference, he just got a little harder to use.

What do you think about Renegade Knight with 2 Thermal canons as a heavy support for TS army?
I have Magnus and thunking about this list: tzangors, 2xDP, Ahriman, Magnus, Knight.

I feel like i need some heavy shooting so options are Knight or 3xPreds

I personally feel we dont have an issue with our shooting for anti tank, we have a lot of tools in the bag to use as is.

Personally i like a defiler w/ twin laz cannon and 3 predators. Defiler works as a charge deterrent (no one wants to charge these guys so that helps) and can be very effective with a spell or two or a stratagem (hitting on 4's rerolling all is pretty effective, and flickering flames makes it wound on 2's, whats not to love?).

Add those 3 preds in (pred autocannons and side las are what i take) and you have a very strong fire base.

Down sides though are cost (very expensive when you add a sorcerer in for casting) and if you run up against a list designed to kill knights (and many are now days) they will cut through all of that pretty quickly.

and if you run into a horde you cant win anyway with that setup

LOCUS OF CONJURATION
Tzeentch Daemons Stratagem
Sorcerous power surrounds Tzeentch’s chosen champions.
Use this Stratagem at the start of your Psychic phase. Select a TZEENTCH DAEMON CHARACTER from your
army – until the end of the phase you can re-roll any failed Psychic tests made for friendly TZEENTCH DAEMON units
within 6" of that model.


Question: Does it work for TS DPs? I have Daemons detachment so can for example Changeling use this one and give reroll to TS DPs?