Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Here's what I've been thinking. At 1850 points, I would field something like this:

Farseer (jetbike, fortune, doom, spirit stones, runes of warding)
Autarch on bike (jetbike, laser lance, mandiblasters, fusion gun)
10 Warlocks (jetbikes, 2x enhance, 2x ebolden)
5 Fire dragons
10 Dire avengers (exarch w/ dual cats, bladestorm)
Wave serpent (twin-linked brightlance, spirit stones)
10 Guardians (scatter laser) + warlock (embolden)
10 Guardians (scatter laser) + warlock (embolden)
2 Fire prisms
Falcon (scatter laser, shuriken cannon, holo-fields, spirit stones)

Against Nob bikers, the guardians I would probably start in reserve -- there's no need to provide an easy target. The mobility of this force is key. I cannot avoid the Nobs, but hopefully I can meet them on my terms, meaning that I assault them instead of them assaulting me.

Call the Nob squads A and B. My first priority is to kill one nob in squad A so that it drops to 10 models. This should be accomplished with the long-range S8+ weapons (brightlance, pulse laser, prism cannons). The purpose here is to insure that squad A is not fearless. After killing one model in squad A, the long-range weapons will focus on squad B, hopefully killing another couple of models over two turns.

On the second turn, the seer council and dire avengers will shoot squad A, doing roughly 4 unsaved wounds (assuming that the nobs turboboosted and I've cast doom). If I'm lucky, the autarch, who should separate from the council, may also kill a nob with his fusion gun (he should shoot first). The council and the autarch will then assault the nob squad. It's important that the farseer not be in the front row -- I want him in combat but not in base-to-base. The autarch should be in base-to-base with only one nob, and that nob should not have a powerfist. The autarch should inflict 2 unsaved wounds and the seers another 4. The return attacks from the nobs should kill 2 or 3 warlocks, so the Eldar win combat by a margin of 3 or 4. It's unlikely that the ork player was able to perfectly distribute the 10 wounds he took this turn such that no model died, so hopefully his Ld is down to 9 or 8. With a Ld modifier of -3 or -4, the nobs are likely to fall back. Because the autarch is now a separate unit, I can use his I6 to try to catch them (the council will be only I4 for this purpose).

Now I have only squad B to deal with. Squad B is already down a couple of models from taking the S8+ shots. Quite probably squad B will destroy the council or at least the autarch (lest I repeat the move), but with only one nob squad around, it will be easier to try to avoid it and take long-distance shots. Once the squad starts doing something instead of turboboosting, I can also use my dragons to better effect.

It's not a guaranteed victory, but it's a strategy that I think has a reasonable chance of success. It will be rather harder if the nobs get first turn. Also I think the force is reasonably well-balanced and will stand up well to a lot of other lists, so it's not just a gimmick to handle the nobs.

Nice tactics and list warmaster.

G

The Farseer has to be in the front lines in cc, IC's cannot hold back as this would be cowardly.

You can seperate him from the squad, start of turn & then you could probably charge him in as was suggested.

Good tactics.. when the unengaged squad b goes down to enough models to be hit by a single blast (or is that somthing silly like 1-3 models with the biker bases?) link up ur prisms for mass-vapage. Im curious?

Right.. another thought I had was - a dire-avenger squad with defend (,bladestorm) and simmershields surive enough not to be completely wiped? I mean one less A per ork can be sniffed at & that 5++ is also somthing nice but I mean with that taken into concideration how big a nob squad can that setup survive against? 3 nobz (full health.. just for point of arguement here, it hasnt been whittled down) 4, 5, 6. Maybe a full 10? Whats do yee say?

If you want to tar pit them, then go 2 x 20 guardians with warlock and embolden, even if they chew through 15, you still have a good chance of staying

and if they do chew through the first 20, keep the other right behind them, as the nobz cant run into the seond squad and that gives you about 40 shots

Squig_herder wrote:If you want to tar pit them, then go 2 x 20 guardians with warlock and embolden, even if they chew through 15, you still have a good chance of staying

anyone feel like mathhammering the chance of making a -15 LD check with a re-roll?

Blackarandras wrote:The Farseer has to be in the front lines in cc, IC's cannot hold back as this would be cowardly.

False. The farseer has to move first when reacting to being assaulted or when making a pile-in move, but not when making an assault move. But, if you are in a situation where the farseer does have to be in base-to-base, just try to put him with one of the nobs lacking a klaw.

He can't attack untill he is in base to base contact.

Umm..Maybe I am approaching this wrong but...What about Wave Serpent Spam and you tank shock the heck out them? Heck, couldn't you fit 6+ Cheap Wave Serpents and 3 Falcons into 1750 points? Wouldn't they fail a tank shock sooner or later?

Green Blow Fly wrote:I knew you would mention 1750 being their sweet spot to address their losses in the Ard Boys finals. The thing is when nob bikers appeared in the tournament scene most players were not prepared for them. Now people do realize their threat and are working on ways to defeat them. I am sure they probably win some more events but it won't be as easy. Eldar is a tough army to beat them but there are other races that can go to toe to toe with them. You have to win the majority of your games by a massacre to win a GT so if the nob bikers win some games by a lesser margin or even draw/lose (* shudders to even contemplate *) that will knock them out of the top spot.

It will be very interesting to see how many nob biker armies are at Adepticon this year. I reckon there will be quite a few.

G

I'll not take that bet.

But I'll stand by the statement that 1750ish is a sweet spot of sorts for nob bikers.

Fifty wrote:Do you get cover saves from blast markers?

Yep.

0ldsk00l wrote:

Centurian99 wrote:Which leads to the only real way of dealing with them: Kill them. You have to go offensive on them, as soon as is convenient to you, and you have to stack the deck in your favor in as many ways as possible. Which is what I said earlier - there are three things you need to do. As long as you can accomplish two of them, you've negated many of the nobs advantages defensively. If you can accomplish all three, you'll probably destroy the unit.

Except that, as the last 7 pages are saying, there is no way to effectively kill them WITHOUT making a broken list that will lose to everything else.

Not necesarilly...an eldar list capable of beating nob bikers will be strong against most other lists. The real difficulty comes in creating a list that can beat both Nob bikers AND horde orks. That's the calculation that makes things like 3x Shining Spears much less appealing.

0ldsk00l wrote:
You keep saying that vehicles will be trapped. please elaborate on how this happens.

Without writing a whole bunch of books...I'll put it this way.

Turn 1, orks turbo-boost to the center of the table. They then threaten a 36" (larger, really) diameter circle in the center of the table. The best place for fast skimmers to move to becomes the sides. Once they do that, the bikers can move that circle so that it covers one third of the table (or both ends). The skimmers now can't really double-back, because if they do, they'll almost certainly have to move into the area threatened by the bikers. They've only got one place to run, the corners. once they're in the corners, the bikes are almost guaranteed an assault in the turn afterwards.

Now, the only way to really escape that predicament is to go flat-out and have star engines. Every one that does that isn't shooting. The whole time, if you separate, you're taking as many shots on the bikers as you can. If you can have half of your force shooting (while the other half is going flat-out), you'll probably have 5-7 S8 shots a turn. Maybe a bit more, if you've equipped falcons with EMLs or Bright Lances. Of those, probably about half will hit. 3+ turbo-boost saves will keep most of those shots from killing a model, so you'll kill one or two nob bikers a turn. Any error or misjudgement of distance, and those bikers are on you like white on toast.

This all assumes that the bikers are working together. if they spread out, they can threaten ridiculous amounts of the table, and force almost all of your skimmers to keep moving or risk getting assaulted.

0ldsk00l wrote:
Additionally, I wasn't advocating dismounting to shoot at the bikes. It is still possible to have a rather large number of S8+ shots in a mech-eldar list on vehicles alone. Again, when they move to assault (getting on average 3 hits, which still leaves a decent chance for survival if that vehicle has holo-fields) their save reverts to 4+, and they lose that pesky FnP. If they assault the stranded unit on foot, it will most likely also die in one round, also leaving the bikers with a 4+ without FnP. 2-3 pulse lasers, and 2-3 TL bright lances will make a dent. far more than anything else proposed so far, and it makes the bikers work for their kills, and leaves them stranded in your turn.

True, except if I was running nob bikers, I'd ignore your falcons, and concentrate on the wave serpents carrying Troops. Wave Serpents go down much easier than Falcons, and without scoring units, the Eldar can only contest. How many scoring units are we talking about in an all-mech Eldar force? 3 squads of Dire Avengers? Two squads of nob bikers should be able to easily account for two of them, and quite possibly the third.

0ldsk00l wrote:
Again, it's not the Ubar-killy nobbiker list of stupidbrokendoom that everyone is saying is a MUST to fight them, but it works against all lists well, and still has the grapes to take on nobs with a decent chance of success.

Success? I honestly doubt it. I'd say that you're looking at army with a good chance of drawing (in a non-KP mission), but to actually succeed, you have to be able to kill the bikers, not just run away from them.

Using your numbers, you're talking something like 2 bikers dead a turn from that shooting. Less if the ork player puts a hit on the warboss.

Green Blow Fly wrote:The sweet spot for nob bikers does not come across as negative but funny as always saying why they are so great. Sure they are great but at least we can look ahead and say they will probably not win the gladiator in 09. My point if people trying to beat this list just give up and decide it's not possible that is making it even easier for this broken list. People just have to keep working at it and they will find ways to beat the list and keep them from massacring each game. They do have their weaknesses and that is a lot better than having to have dealt with broken holo falcons. Personally I think Space Marines in general is the best way to hit them with the beat stick, be it assault terminators, VAS, iron class or vindicators. Probably Chaos as well... especially lash spam.

G

Agreed. Anyone who thinks that they can play their same Eldar list that they've been running and do well against nob bikers is seriously delusional. Unless they happened to include things that work by accident, they're going to, at best, eke out some draws.

Take the 4 corners

focusedfire wrote:Take the 4 corners

Great. I concentrate on the two corners that have your wave serpents in it, turbo-boost the bikers into a position where you can't move them far enough away, and charge them on the next turn.

Don't forget the after-thought unit, either. The squad of boyz or whatever is in the backfield, also closes off a portion of the table, and removes maneuvering options, because if you move into assault range of them, they'll charge you, and with the ridiculous-silly number of attacks orks get, at S4 and with powerklaws, they probably get some glancing hits in.

Which is why you get rid of them

Centurian99 wrote:[Without writing a whole bunch of books...I'll put it this way.

Turn 1, orks turbo-boost to the center of the table. They then threaten a 36" (larger, really) diameter circle in the center of the table. The best place for fast skimmers to move to becomes the sides. Once they do that, the bikers can move that circle so that it covers one third of the table (or both ends). The skimmers now can't really double-back, because if they do, they'll almost certainly have to move into the area threatened by the bikers. They've only got one place to run, the corners. once they're in the corners, the bikes are almost guaranteed an assault in the turn afterwards.

Now, the only way to really escape that predicament is to go flat-out and have star engines. Every one that does that isn't shooting. The whole time, if you separate, you're taking as many shots on the bikers as you can. If you can have half of your force shooting (while the other half is going flat-out), you'll probably have 5-7 S8 shots a turn. Maybe a bit more, if you've equipped falcons with EMLs or Bright Lances. Of those, probably about half will hit. 3+ turbo-boost saves will keep most of those shots from killing a model, so you'll kill one or two nob bikers a turn. Any error or misjudgement of distance, and those bikers are on you like white on toast.

This all assumes that the bikers are working together. if they spread out, they can threaten ridiculous amounts of the table, and force almost all of your skimmers to keep moving or risk getting assaulted.

And the situation you describe here takes easily 2-3 turns of the bikers chasing before getting their shots in on ONE vehicle. ASSUMING they kill it, they have lost themselves the game by wasting that much time as it is. 2-3 turns of shooting on the eldar side however will (by your math) account for 4-6 bikes. I like that math. I am more than comfortable scooting 12" a turn if needed. 6+ to hit is a pretty decent defense against dwindling numbers of bikers, especially if they dont max out on fists.

Again, as I have said SEVERAL times by now, it's not perfect. but nothing is. and tailoring a list specifically to fight them is far more problematic than finding a way for YOUR list to make a go at it. Any idiot can dump a bunch of $$$$$$$ on the new ubar-killyness and let it play the game for them (isn't that the topic of this discussion to begin with?), but it takes a bit of creativity and thought to work with what you have.

On another note, I saw the funniest anti-nob biker strat today: local guy was playing against SM, and the SM player took 2 thunderfire cannons. I think they are crap myself, but he kept pegging the bikers with supterrainian shells, forcing them to make dangerous terrain tests all game, and prevented them from ever turbo-boosting. a few rounds of lascannon shooting, and one demolisher shot did them in before they could assault.

Fun option #2:

when deploying objective markers in objective games, put them within 3" of a 2+ story building. deposit troops on the 2nd and higher floor, and sit back as the best he can do is contest, or shoot (crappily) at the dug-in troops, giving up the 3+ save, and exposing them to more fire.

Why do people keep proposing some wacky tactics to beat this list?

40K is not a game of crazy tacitcal manuevering. You have a limited amount of space and a limited amount of time to do anything. Nob bikers can go from one end of the board to the other. You cant run, you cant hide, and very few armies can shoot them to death.

Nob bikers are nothing like a c'tan or a monolith, neither is even remotely as deadly, I cant think of anything that has ever been in the game like this, maybe wolfgaurd from 2nd ed, but that is apples and oranges.

And Oldskool, face the facts man, you better bring the nastiest army list you can imagine (broken has no relevence what so ever to this argument) to beat Nob Bikers which are uber broke. No offense meant to you, but this is a gunfight, dont bring a knife.

Besides, I just do not understand why people cry cheese in a gloves off tounry situation. Bring your best and expect to play the best or do not come. A for fun game is obviously different, but you dont bring bikers to a for fun game in most situations.

What you have to do is make a unit or combination of units that can meet the bikers head on. The good thing is that if a unit or combo of units can do that then they will be good against nearly everything else in the game.

If this army is really popular then you can feel confident in investing a huge amount of points in a hammer unit or units.

Man, dual lash chaos, nob bikers are going to be tit for tat with one another.

For the pointy ears, after some thought I think this would be a good combo:

-20 dragons in wave serpents w/ EML

-10 Man gaurdian squad with serpent w/ EML (serpent transports harlies)

-5 man pathfinder squad

-10 Harlies w/ shadowseer

-Eldrad with 4 warlocks w destructor, embolden and enhance
in
-Falcon with b.lance, holofields

-Karanadras with eldrad & co. in Falcon

-3 Shinning spears with exarch + star lance

just around 2000

Why the trasports? To keep you safe from lash and to keep you mobile.

The army can reliably wipe out one nob bikers squad in a single turn and the trasnports can shield you from the other for a turn with tank shocking.

Still not a gimme, but so far as I go over the figures in my head, it works out fairly reliably.

20 Dragons will cause 11 wounds, one on each biker so you could kill some klaws or the painboy, and expect 5 or 6 kills.

The trasports should cause 2 str 8 unsaved wounds, which is another few dead.

and the combo charge with the warlocks and Karanadras plus the halries wipes any survivors with minimul casualties and runs down survivors.

All of this depends on correct positioning though, which comes down to luck and skill. It also assumes you can get the charge off out of the wave serpents which is not alwasy easy to do. But, if it works you stomp one squad and are in good position to hit the orther very nearly as hard or he has to run away from you.

What do you guys think?

focusedfire wrote:Which is why you get rid of them

How the heck is he getting rid of them, when everything is in wave serpents and falcons, and everything he's got is spending most of his time running away as fast as they can from nob bikers?

We've already established that you think you can afford to go after the backfield unit, and that it'll make a difference. We're talking about a Mech list here against the Nob Bikers of Doom, so you can at least try to not change the rules mid-game.

0ldsk00l wrote:
And the situation you describe here takes easily 2-3 turns of the bikers chasing before getting their shots in on ONE vehicle. ASSUMING they kill it, they have lost themselves the game by wasting that much time as it is. 2-3 turns of shooting on the eldar side however will (by your math) account for 4-6 bikes. I like that math. I am more than comfortable scooting 12" a turn if needed. 6+ to hit is a pretty decent defense against dwindling numbers of bikers, especially if they dont max out on fists.

If you're only moving 12", you're dead. If I'm running the bikers, I ignore your falcons/prisms, and go after the ones that matter...your wave serpents with the nice squishy stuff inside. In an objective mission, killing you wave serpents and the troops inside guarantees that you can't win. In a KP mission, each wave serpent is worth 2 KP, when you count the squad inside.

0ldsk00l wrote:
Again, as I have said SEVERAL times by now, it's not perfect. but nothing is. and tailoring a list specifically to fight them is far more problematic than finding a way for YOUR list to make a go at it. Any idiot can dump a bunch of $$$$$$$ on the new ubar-killyness and let it play the game for them (isn't that the topic of this discussion to begin with?), but it takes a bit of creativity and thought to work with what you have.

I understand what you're trying to do. I'm simply tellling you that it won't work, 90% of the time with the lists that most people are fielding. At best, you end up playing for the draw. If you want to WIN against nob bikers, you have to have a list that's capable of the three things I've said before...massed S8 attacks (that would be at least 15-20 shooting, or about a third of that from assault), be able to ignore the FNP, and/or be negate to avoid cover/armor.

0ldsk00l wrote:
On another note, I saw the funniest anti-nob biker strat today: local guy was playing against SM, and the SM player took 2 thunderfire cannons. I think they are crap myself, but he kept pegging the bikers with supterrainian shells, forcing them to make dangerous terrain tests all game, and prevented them from ever turbo-boosting. a few rounds of lascannon shooting, and one demolisher shot did them in before they could assault.

Nice trick (and that's a honest congrats, not sarcastic). Well done for the SM player. I'm actually thinking that in the right list, thunderfires have some use in a tournament list.

However, based on what you're describing, I'm betting there was only one squad of bikers. Now you have to figure out how to deal with two. That's a much more difficult ball of wax. They can pretty safely not worry about DT tests, and they're still moving 12" a turn. If they go second, its entirely reasonable for the Ork player to start off-board...depending on the opponent's list, it might even be the best play.

0ldsk00l wrote:Fun option #2:
when deploying objective markers in objective games, put them within 3" of a 2+ story building. deposit troops on the 2nd and higher floor, and sit back as the best he can do is contest, or shoot (crappily) at the dug-in troops, giving up the 3+ save, and exposing them to more fire.

You need to be able to get the objective more than 3" off the ground for that to work. And to be honest, I find that a bit more abusive than the nob biker list is (note for anyone who hasn't been paying attention: I don't play nob bikers. I don't play orks. I don't have any desire to play nob bikers and/or orks). .

Reecius wrote:
What you have to do is make a unit or combination of units that can meet the bikers head on. The good thing is that if a unit or combo of units can do that then they will be good against nearly everything else in the game.

Not absolutely, but quite likely. 2 squads of 10 dragons and 10 harlequins, backed by some farseer support, is a solid combo almost no matter who you're playing against (horde orks being the one exception.) But 3x Shining Spears...much more of a gamble.

Reecius wrote:
For the pointy ears, after some thought I think this would be a good combo:
-20 dragons in wave serpents w/ EML
-10 Man gaurdian squad with serpent w/ EML (serpent transports harlies)
-5 man pathfinder squad
-10 Harlies w/ shadowseer
-Eldrad with 4 warlocks w destructor, embolden and enhance
in
-Falcon with b.lance, holofields
-Karanadras with eldrad & co. in Falcon
-3 Shinning spears with exarch + star lance

just around 2000

Why the trasports? To keep you safe from lash and to keep you mobile.

The army can reliably wipe out one nob bikers squad in a single turn and the trasnports can shield you from the other for a turn with tank shocking.

Still not a gimme, but so far as I go over the figures in my head, it works out fairly reliably.

20 Dragons will cause 11 wounds, one on each biker so you could kill some klaws or the painboy, and expect 5 or 6 kills.

The trasports should cause 2 str 8 unsaved wounds, which is another few dead.

and the combo charge with the warlocks and Karanadras plus the halries wipes any survivors with minimul casualties and runs down survivors.

All of this depends on correct positioning though, which comes down to luck and skill. It also assumes you can get the charge off out of the wave serpents which is not alwasy easy to do. But, if it works you stomp one squad and are in good position to hit the orther very nearly as hard or he has to run away from you.

What do you guys think?

That's a rock-hard list. but with only two troops, you're somewhat crippled in objective missions. Theoretically, you could take on both squads at once, by sending Eldrad, Karandas, and the warlocks at one, while piling everything onto the other.

Green Blow Fly wrote:The sweet spot for nob bikers does not come across as negative but funny as always saying why they are so great. Sure they are great but at least we can look ahead and say they will probably not win the gladiator in 09.

G

At higher points the other units the Orks take pale in comparison to his 2 Nob squads while the other player just has more stuff to attack the same two Nob squads with. Up to 750 more points of stuff. You may think that is funny but the Nob Bikers aren't laughing. You say it is funny, then why did they do poorly at 2500 but get 1st and 2nd at 1750?

So yeah they probably aren't going to win the Gladiator... but maybe they can take down that Titan and Hierophant. That would be something.

Things people seem to not understand:

1) The warboss is soaking alot of those Str8+ wounds so Eldar Mech won't really be all that great against them.

2) Unless you killed a bunch from one squad before you charged you will almost certainly lose your entire beefy attacking squad(exception Warlocks) and then take autofail checks on all squads involved in the assault. 15 Power Klaws at WS 5 and 5 from the Boss has a tendency to completely destroy anything it runs into.

3) They aren't broken at all(since their are ways to defeat them), they just absolutely crush the list next door 95% of the time.

I am working on an eldar list to assassinate the n0b bikers.

In the mean time feel free to continue with the circular thrusts while eliciting the joy of play n0b bikers.

G

What happens if you tank shock the grots?

1) The warboss is soaking alot of those Str8+ wounds so Eldar Mech won't really be all that great against them.

2) Unless you killed a bunch from one squad before you charged you will almost certainly lose your entire beefy attacking squad(exception Warlocks) and then take autofail checks on all squads involved in the assault. 15 Power Klaws at WS 5 and 5 from the Boss has a tendency to completely destroy anything it runs into.

3) They aren't broken at all(since their are ways to defeat them), they just absolutely crush the list next door 95% of the time.

What are we missing? I am not seeing what you mean? I am not trying to combatative just curious if you see something I am missing?

The warboss can soak two wounds, the list we were looking at causes 11 average wounds, the ork player then has to put one on each biker. He will lose some klaws most likely, possibly the painboy if you get lucky. You can assume an average of 1 wound on the warboss and 4 or 5 dead bikers, leaving 6 or 7 alive. Trasports and Pathfinders shooting drops another 2.

The charge should slaughter the Orks and as Centurian said, you could actually tie up the other squad with the warlocks and Karanadras if you are fortuned. You as many regular attacks on big K as possible with a rerollable 2+, and the klaw attacks on the warlocks if you can. Also, drop eldrad and pick up a farseer with doom, fortune, warding and stones, I forgot that the elderly Eldrad cant fleet.

If you manage to Doom the squad you shot at, it wont make much difference for shooting as you wound on a 2, but in assault, the Harlies will cause an average of about 6 unsaved wounds at in 7. The warboss can only take one more if he soaked up wounds from shooting, but unfortunately at this point there are only 6 or less Bikers left, so one goes down (this is all assuming the painboy lives as well). The charge form the shinning spears also nets you one unsaved str 8 wound and one unsaved str 6 wound, killing off two more. That leaves you with 4 bikers. Even if miraculously it was all of the klaws and the warboss, which is HIGLY unlikely, you probably only lose the spears, but you win by a large margin on the combat res, breaking the squad and easily running them down.

The odds are in your favor by a very large margin. If you threw in the Karaandras squad, you would take maybe two casualties in return, but wipe out the orks.

The low amount of troops does suck though, and at 1750 you have some issues as well.

focusedfire wrote:What happens if you tank shock the grots?

You're quite focused on Grots. Re-rollable LD7 works around 80% of the time. Besides, you're more likely to see a single squad of boyz

I think we can all agree that Nob Bikers are broken. This unit really irritates me because it breaks the game. Look at all the crap you have to do to your army to beat this one unit. When that happens you know the unit is broken. Even theoretical counters are not full proof vs. these things...but yet the reverse is true for the Nob Bikers. There isn't a unit that they can't handle...and that's a huge rub for me. I lost a game vs. Nob Biker Orks this past weekend with my Tau, but it felt good to know I killed his precious Nob Biker squad. If only there was a turn 8! LOL.

Capt K

CaptKaruthors wrote:I think we can all agree that Nob Bikers are broken. This unit really irritates me because it breaks the game.

I disagree with this statement. Off the top of my head, lists that kill Nob Bikers: Jetseer Eldar, 6x Ironclad Rhino Marine spam, Assault Terminator in Land Raiders spam, Crisis suit melta/missile spam or melta/plasma spam...

It's a gimmick list. Just like Nidzilla, it'll be beaten by other gimmick lists.

Dont forget, implant attack 'stealers!

who was using Nob bikers Capt K?

All those lists are something that can allow you to compete with them...but your outlook is 50/50 at best. Also with those lists...you may beat the Nob Biker list, but get killed by something else your army can't handle because you tooled up too much to deal with them...yet the same isn't true for someone that is playing a list with Nob Bikers in it. The biggest frustration for me is that the Ork codex has an answer to everything in the game....everything. No other codex does. That should be a sign, don't you think? IMHO, an idiot can with with an Ork army now.

Capt K

sourclams wrote:

CaptKaruthors wrote:I think we can all agree that Nob Bikers are broken. This unit really irritates me because it breaks the game.

I disagree with this statement. Off the top of my head, lists that kill Nob Bikers: Jetseer Eldar, 6x Ironclad Rhino Marine spam, Assault Terminator in Land Raiders spam, Crisis suit melta/missile spam or melta/plasma spam...

It's a gimmick list. Just like Nidzilla, it'll be beaten by other gimmick lists.

It doesn't matter who it is. It's all the same when you face those lists...LOL.

thehod wrote:who was using Nob bikers Capt K?