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zilegil wrote:Oh my, I can't believe I'm hearing this! Marines find it hard to get armour, and in the imperial truth shrouded eyes of a lowly guard, or other citizens, they are demi-gods. Most sets of PA that marines use are hard obtained and have passed through many Astartes hands. You would be lucky to get a shiny new set even if you wanted one. How can anybody even think of doing something like giving it to mortals! Even inquisitors find it hard to get their hands on PA! Even if it wasn't heretical, for a mortal, to use such a device. It would still be impossible for more than a few more powerful leaders to use it. Only legends like Yarrik or Creed could attain such a relic. There is a reason that not all inquisitors use PA.

Madness, utter madness I say!

Sisters of Battle are mortal

Though I always presumed that the only reason they have PA is because the Ecclesiarchy is powerful enough to requisition it... though that doesn't explain its unique look.

Henners91 wrote:Sisters of Battle are mortal
Though I always presumed that the only reason they have PA is because the Ecclesiarchy is powerful enough to requisition it... though that doesn't explain its unique look.

Indeed, the Ecclesiarchy is a vast organization, accumulating unbelievable riches from the amassed tithes of a million worlds. That's easily enough to fund the production of a couple thousand suits of powered armour and other equipment, I suppose.

Zilegil raises an interesting point in that power armour, much like boltguns, may be mistakenly regarded as commonly available because it shows up so very often, especially in licensed products. Although I maintain that a governor could theoretically buy it (see Necromunda), it would take contacts and a maddening amount of resources to outfit an entire regiment of PDF with it - more than many single worlds could handle. And, as has been pointed out before, this regiment would soon find itself "tithed away" by the Munitorum, so that there's not much of an incentive for a noble to commission such equipment to begin with.

What do you mean about the look, though?

The unique look is there for a reason: It's ultra-feminine, almost comically so. Why? Because the Ecclesiarchy is not permitted to have male soldiers.

Lynata wrote:

Henners91 wrote:Sisters of Battle are mortal
Though I always presumed that the only reason they have PA is because the Ecclesiarchy is powerful enough to requisition it... though that doesn't explain its unique look.

Indeed, the Ecclesiarchy is a vast organization, accumulating unbelievable riches from the amassed tithes of a million worlds. That's easily enough to fund the production of a couple thousand suits of powered armour and other equipment, I suppose.

Zilegil raises an interesting point in that power armour, much like boltguns, may be mistakenly regarded as commonly available because it shows up so very often, especially in licensed products. Although I maintain that a governor could theoretically buy it (see Necromunda), it would take contacts and a maddening amount of resources to outfit an entire regiment of PDF with it - more than many single worlds could handle. And, as has been pointed out before, this regiment would soon find itself "tithed away" by the Munitorum, so that there's not much of an incentive for a noble to commission such equipment to begin with.

What do you mean about the look, though?

That it isn't just standard mkVII armour. It implies that it's been manufactured for the Ecclesiarchy. Although that's not so unbelievable, it does kind of make me wonder just how these suits have been produced in the first place on such a scale; I guess the production centres must just be incredibly dispersed given the size of the Ecclesiarchy's presence. So perhaps they take advantage of more facilities than anyone else can to produce their own purpose-built gear.

Henners91 wrote:That it isn't just standard mkVII armour. It implies that it's been manufactured for the Ecclesiarchy. Although that's not so unbelievable, it does kind of make me wonder just how these suits have been produced in the first place on such a scale; I guess the production centres must just be incredibly dispersed given the size of the Ecclesiarchy's presence. So perhaps they take advantage of more facilities than anyone else can to produce their own purpose-built gear.

Oh! Yes, supposedly the design goes back to the days of the Age of Apostasy and is a mixture of what the original San Leorian Daughters of the Emperor have worn intermingled with Vandire's personal preferences and incorporating the best technology the Imperium could provide. After the reformation, Sebastian Thor agreed with the Mechanicus on permanent loan for the machinery necessary to produce the armour and boltguns, which are to this day manufactured in the Ecclesiarchal forges on Ophelia VII. The design changed little over the millennia, though there are small differences that can be observed when comparing Dominica's armour (as worn by the Living Saint miniature) with the current version of the Angel-pattern.

I have heard of no other production center so far - but I would imagine those on Ophelia VII to be quite large and thus having sufficient production capabilities to churn out a couple hundred or even thousand suits of armour every year to be disseminated amongst the Orders Militant. There aren't that many Sisters around, but they are said to have a rather high attrition, their numbers fluctuating constantly. The need for a steady supply of basic wargear would be comparatively high as well.

Hrm, not sure I like that fluff so much... the idea of anyone being self-sufficient in the grimdark universe of 40k is rather perturbing to me.

I'll just have to sate myself by imagining that most of the power armour is repaired from that recovered from the field and that it would take hundreds of years to equip the Sisters with armour solely from Ophelia VII...

Henners91 wrote:Hrm, not sure I like that fluff so much... the idea of anyone being self-sufficient in the grimdark universe of 40k is rather perturbing to me.

This applies to the Space Marines as well. In fact, those are way more independent - the Sisters at least still rely on the Mechanicus for more esoteric wargear, on the Imperial Navy to provide escorts for their transports, and of course on the Ministorum to pay the bills and send new recruits from the Schola. Given their comparatively small numbers, you could even say they also rely on the support of Frateris Militia and the Imperial Guard for larger campaigns.

As to what they do with armour recovered from the field, there is no information, and personally I am split over the issue. On one hand it would make sense to recover, repair and reassemble damaged suits from the field to pass them on to the next generation, on the other it would also seem somewhat fitting if the Sisters would bury their dead in it like it was done with Alicia (minus backpack and helmet). Financially, this would be an enormous waste of money (and rather grimdark in that it would be a stark contrast against the malnourished peasantry) - but neither they nor the Ministorum are very much experienced with keeping a tight budget. When you grow up never having to worry about where your next meal comes from and everything is paid for out of the coffers of the invisible masses of a million faraway worlds, I suppose you'd never really develop an appreciation of money. It would also fit to the many ranks of power armoured skeletons of long-dead heroes that are occasionally shown decorating various pillars in images depicting the Imperial Palace (although those skeletons would likely belong to the Space Marines of course).

Given the lack of info this is very much a subject of personal interpretation, though. I am somewhat undecided myself, as I could see either option as viable, with both offering some interesting aspects. Perhaps it even is a mixture of both, depending on the individual convent or even how respected the martyr was.

I could see it being done for some amazing martyr... but lesser heroes can always be clad in paper mache equivalents

Brother Coa wrote:

THIS is custom carapace armour.
NOT power armour.

Deadshot wrote:Holy Mother of The Eemperor!
agreed
Suddenly Guardsmen are cool again?!!!

Are you suggesting they wernt cool before??

Melissia wrote:What do you mean "again"? They've ALWAYS been cool!

Thank you Melissa, well said.

KingDeath wrote:

AustonT wrote:

Melissia wrote:

Coolyo294 wrote:Nerds with too much time on their hands.

Exactly, Historians.

So true. History is the ultimate nerd sport.

Actualy it isn't. It is hard work with rather underwhelming chances for something like a decent income or at least a job after years of studies...meh.

Exactly, so only nerds would want it.

master of ordinance wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:

THIS is custom carapace armour.
NOT power armour.

Deadshot wrote:Holy Mother of The Eemperor!
agreed
Suddenly Guardsmen are cool again?!!!

Are you suggesting they wernt cool before??

Please don't bring that up again. Just look at the first half of the thread.

Henners91 wrote: Sisters of Battle are mortal

Though I always presumed that the only reason they have PA is because the Ecclesiarchy is powerful enough to requisition it... though that doesn't explain its unique look.

They are mortal, that is the very reason why they look so different. One of the reasons why guardsmen can't wear PA too. Sorritas armour is a lot lighter than normal MK 8 power armour. Also guardsmen can't interface with the armour as he has not had the genetic enhancement of the black carapace. That is another reason guardsmen can't wear armour. It takes a lot of modification to the armour to make it so a mortal can wear such a garb.

Anyway the Sorritas have a large funding, as Lynata has already put, and work for the inquisition. The inquisition practically created imperial truth and therefore heresy. They choose what is heresy and what is not.

It reminds me of how the pope announced in the war that it was not sin to make war on the sabbath day, that you can eat meat on a friday, etc.

zilegil wrote:Sororitas armour is a lot lighter than normal MK 8 power armour.

Only because Sisters themselves are smaller.

You really don't understand the nature of 40k power armor if you think it requires a direct mental link-up to work.

Black Carapace is completely and utterly unnecessary for using power armor.

It is a BONUS, not a necessary item. And it's not the only way to have a direct mental link-up, either, it's merely the way that Space Marines use. The method the Mechanicus uses (mind-impulse units) is arguably actually better. But even still, no mental link-up, biological or technological, is necessary to use power armor. It just helps you use power armor better than without.

Melissia wrote:

zilegil wrote:Sororitas armour is a lot lighter than normal MK 8 power armour.

Only because Sisters themselves are smaller.

And, of course, because it does miss out on a lot of "gadgets" that make the Marine variant different. The Sororitas specialize on short duration rapid strikes that are finished within hours or rely on established supply lines for longer campaigns, whereas the Marines have no problem with operating behind enemy lines for days or even weeks.

In spite of what some licensed material such as the FFG books want to make people believe, the armour protection of both Astartes and Sororitas is actually equal - it's the additional tools that would give the Marines an additional edge (depending on circumstances) where the Sisters are missing out. Advanced life support, greater strength enhancement, waste recycler, etc. For sure, that stuff takes up both room and weight as well.

I meant lighter in weight, not armour. The fact that Sorritas are smaller was what I was saying. And is one of the reasons that guard can't just 'put on' astartes armour as has been put in a post a while back. I was just explaining why power armour the Sorritas use has such a 'unique look' as Hanners was asking. As I said it takes a lot of tinkering for a normal sized human to don such a garb.

Sorritas don't have black carapace? Oh right they don't. My mistake. I had not read the lexicanum article for a long while.

Sororitas power armor, to my knowledge, requires no mental link-up to be used. If it does, it's likely a simple cerebral plug (implant at the base of the skull that converts electrical signals to brain signals and vice versa) or similar device-- certainly it requires no MIU, mechanicus implants, or black carapace like dragonskin (techpriest power armor) or astartes armor.

Of all the resources of the Imperium manpower is the most plentiful and easily replaced.

Summed it up there.