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Yarrickshad wrote:Because any man/woman worth the title of general knows it's a bad idea to waste the lives of your men for very little gain, it's been like that throughout history, why should it be any different in 40k?

Two words grim dark. Grim dark is really code for silly, but it's also the coolest part about the GI. (Try it sometimes, replace the words grim dark with silly or joke. It fits quite well.) You take away the silly waste of lives the silly bad tactics, the silly bad equipment and what do you get.

nomotog wrote:

Yarrickshad wrote:Because any man/woman worth the title of general knows it's a bad idea to waste the lives of your men for very little gain, it's been like that throughout history, why should it be any different in 40k?

Two words grim dark. Grim dark is really code for silly, but it's also the coolest part about the GI. (Try it sometimes, replace the words grim dark with silly or joke. It fits quite well.) You take away the silly waste of lives the silly bad tactics, the silly bad equipment and what do you get.

Sacrificing a platoon of men to sieze a strategic position, especially when you have millions more were they came from, isn't a silly waste of lives or a silly tactic. What makes it so grim dark is that the IG have enough resources where expending vast amounts of men and equipment for even the most trivial of goals isn't silly, but a viable tactic.

Emperors Faithful wrote:

nomotog wrote:

Yarrickshad wrote:Because any man/woman worth the title of general knows it's a bad idea to waste the lives of your men for very little gain, it's been like that throughout history, why should it be any different in 40k?

Two words grim dark. Grim dark is really code for silly, but it's also the coolest part about the GI. (Try it sometimes, replace the words grim dark with silly or joke. It fits quite well.) You take away the silly waste of lives the silly bad tactics, the silly bad equipment and what do you get.

Sacrificing a platoon of men to sieze a strategic position, especially when you have millions more were they came from, isn't a silly waste of lives or a silly tactic. What makes it so grim dark is that the IG have enough resources where expending vast amounts of men and equipment for even the most trivial of goals isn't silly, but a viable tactic.

Yes yes. We all know that the IoM is built in such a way that the silliness of the IG actually comes out as being viable in world, but from a outsiders point of view it's still rather silly.

nomotog wrote:

Yes yes. We all know that the IoM is built in such a way that the silliness of the IG actually comes out as being viable in world, but from a outsiders point of view it's still rather silly.

I don't think you get it. But I can't really be bothered to get into this again.

Deadshot wrote:They are stupid.Basically,the commanders say"everyone,run out am wave your arms untill the guns are pointing at you!"

And the Guardsmen say

"Ok"


Waddle off into nNo-man's lande

"Hello!Please shoot!Cause I don't give a feth"-BANG

Maybe you should start using periods after your punctuation before you bring too much attention to yourself.

Emperors Faithful wrote:

I'm quite sure the Imperial Guard has several "Napoleons" in its ranks - but I'm just as certain that the majority consists of careless nobles who only think of their own reputation. It's just the kind of mindset that feudalism breeds - especially if you look how far 40k takes it (slavery etc).

Are reffering to servitors here? I wouldn't call them slaves.

There are plenty of instances in the fluff of people being bought and sold as slaves, with or without being lobotomized and augmented.

Arturius wrote:

Emperors Faithful wrote:

I'm quite sure the Imperial Guard has several "Napoleons" in its ranks - but I'm just as certain that the majority consists of careless nobles who only think of their own reputation. It's just the kind of mindset that feudalism breeds - especially if you look how far 40k takes it (slavery etc).

Are reffering to servitors here? I wouldn't call them slaves.

There are plenty of instances in the fluff of people being bought and sold as slaves, with or without being lobotomized and augmented.

Where? I've honestly never seen anything that suggests this.

If you're thinking of penal colonies that probably doesn't count, since they are paying for whatever crime they have committed against the most righteous and just Imperial Law.

Off the top of my head, you have a major plotline in the Eisenhorn series, you have an entire gang type in Necromunda.

Who needs power armor when you can get chimera armor?

Arturius wrote:Off the top of my head, you have a major plotline in the Eisenhorn series, you have an entire gang type in Necromunda.

Indeed, the Guild Pit Slaves.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Necromunda#Pit_Slaves
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat480009a&prodId=prod1120135&rootCatGameStyle=

Though there's also lots of "veiled" slavery such as serfom and serf bondage, like with the people of Jopall. I expect this to be the norm throughout most Imperial worlds, actually. The differences are small, but serfdom is probably seen as more civilized than slavery. Unless you're a mutant. Nobody cares about mutant slaves.

And then you have the young noble Spyrers who like to swoop down into the Underhive to hunt innocent people for fun. That's the kind of ruling caste Imperial Guard officers are recruited from.
There will also be another end of the spectrum, of course. Nobles with true ideals, who believe in serving their world and their people. Personally, I'm just saying that the egoistic, the arrogant, the sadistic and the greedy are more prevalent, though.

Brother Coa wrote:

DarknessEternal wrote:

Deadshot wrote:Surely there are other ways to win than throwing away billions of lives?

A billion people is a small price to pay for the Imperium.

Yeah, when every planet have few billion citizens, and Imperum have million of worlds...

This isn't very accurate not every world has a population in the billions, many have tiny populations.

Deadshot wrote:Tell that to the Guardsmens' families.Or the family of any dead soldier.

And yet you forget that 40K is completly different to modern day Earth, when you have constant war against horrible aliens and deamons, the view point of an IoM human will be very different from our own. Planets like Cadia are breed for for war, a family of a dead Cadian could feel great pride and not sadness at all, but we don't know

BluntmanDC wrote:
This isn't very accurate not every world has a population in the billions, many have tiny populations.

True, but even so - many worlds do have population in high millions.

What if a Foregeworld has the resources to equip its regiments with Power Armour? Would the High Lords be all like HERESY!!!! ?

Henners91 wrote:What if a Foregeworld has the resources to equip its regiments with Power Armour? Would the High Lords be all like HERESY!!!! ?

The Mechanicus is a seperate entity. They could equip all their troops (Skitari) with rubber chickens and the Imperium wouldn't be able to do anything.

purplefood wrote:

Henners91 wrote:What if a Foregeworld has the resources to equip its regiments with Power Armour? Would the High Lords be all like HERESY!!!! ?

The Mechanicus is a seperate entity. They could equip all their troops (Skitari) with rubber chickens and the Imperium wouldn't be able to do anything.

The rubber chicken has an extremely sensitive machine spirit do not joke about it, or it may stop working and we will all be screwed.

Henners91 wrote:What if a Foregeworld has the resources to equip its regiments with Power Armour? Would the High Lords be all like HERESY!!!! ?

They would not. But they wouldn't do that because they would need a lot of power armors. Besides, Forge Worlds are under the command of AM, and they have their own military force ( Skitarii ).

The Forge World of Megyre,during the invasion of Hive Fleet Jormungandr,equipped the troops with shatterstorm rifles,thermal cannons and pulverizer whips.Didn't stop the nids though.You think the High Lords would say HERESY,because they have the experimental and powerful tech,and the make tihe Titans,so no.


So as Nickleback said in their song "This Afternoon"...


"The Landlord said I should buy a tent, but he can kiss my @$$ cause I paid the rent"


The Landlord being the High Lords and ther rent being the gear they make.

the only reason I can think that guardsmen wouldn't wear power armor is because they're so numerous, as such that is a lot of power armor. Power armor also requires a black carapace which I assume is difficult to produce, like power armor

Dual Face wrote:the only reason I can think that guardsmen wouldn't wear power armor is because they're so numerous, as such that is a lot of power armor. Power armor also requires a black carapace which I assume is difficult to produce, like power armor

SM power armour requires the black carapace.
How do you think Inquisitors and SoB use power armour? They have a different type, it isn't as responsive i suppose but it works the same at being armour.

Non-Astartes power armor doesn't have to require a neural link-up, but it can. For example, the Adeptus Mechanicus uses power armor in its techpriests that are going into a combat situation. Dragonskin armor utilizes the Techpriest's own implants to interface with the techpriest directly, in fact, the techpriest may very well actually have a tighter connection with his armor than a marine does with his.

What about a Techmarine,would it be like a second skin or something?

Deadshot wrote:Tell that to the Guardsmens' families.Or the family of any dead soldier.

"The fallen shall be forever remembered as the Emperor's finest."
"Our Imperium is built upon the bones of martyrs."
"Our Imperium floats on a sea of the blood of martyrs."
"There is no greater honor than to die in the service of the Emperor."
"Even a man who has nothing may still give his life for the Emperor."
"Glory to the first man to die"

Also, remember that people who join the IG will almost never see their homeworld again, even if they do survive every battlefield they find themselves on. When one is selected for service in the Guard, your family says its farewells before you ship out, because they're never going to see you again, whether you live or die. If you happen to make your way into the ranks of the officers and then die, then your children will be candidates for the Schola Progenum (assuming your spouse is also dead). If you die, as an enlisted soldier, it is unlikely that your family will ever be told, unless they happen to erect some monument to the fallen on particular worlds that your family happens to live on. Usually, though, this is not done... such monuments are erected upon the worlds where the battles took place.

Heck, even if you survive to retirement, usually the Guard gives you a piece of land on a world you conquered and tells you "go colonize it". That's what Gaunt's Ghosts are waiting for.

Melissia wrote:Heck, even if you survive to retirement, usually the Guard gives you a piece of land on a world you conquered and tells you "go colonize it". That's what Gaunt's Ghosts are waiting for.

How often dose that happen though? Also how do they decide that you have done enough and it's time to raise the sheep. Is it based on time, points, or just when they have new land they need filled?

Alright,I get the pouint,you all like guard.I don't.\I don't like the aesthetics,the weapons,and not just becasue they have been flashlights game wise.I think the tanks are clumbsy looking,they don't do things efficently,and they generally are not welcome as my allies.My views,and I stand by them.

Deadshot wrote:Alright,I get the pouint,you all like guard.I don't.\I don't like the aesthetics,the weapons,and not just becasue they have been flashlights game wise.I think the tanks are clumbsy looking,they don't do things efficently,and they generally are not welcome as my allies.My views,and I stand by them.

That's the point to the Imperial Guard...
The weapons and equipment are utilitarian. The tactics and strategies are often sub-par.
They are normal people trained for a bit, given a comparably weak gun and sent against the numberless hordes of mankind.
They are slightly doomed... only slightly.

All this makes them seem incompentent,and ineffective,weaknesses in the3 armies fluff,and weaknesses should be dealt with.

Deadshot wrote:All this makes them seem incompentent,and ineffective,weaknesses in the3 armies fluff,and weaknesses should be dealt with.

Why is it a weakness? It's a character flaw.
They aren't super men. They aren't perfect. They are human and they fight for the survival of mankind against nightmares.
Ineffective is the last thing they are. Some commanders are incompetant but they quickly die or are executed.

Flaws are weaknesses.Weakness must be eradicated with extreme hatred and righteouss anger.

Deadshot wrote:Flaws are weaknesses.Weakness must be eradicated with extreme hatred and righteouss anger.

So something that makes a character believable is bad?
You must read some unbelievably rubbish books...