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wuestenfux wrote:Choices, yes, but you need to solve this problem quickly. At best in one round of shooting early in the game.

Shunt and charge the dreadknight first turn, shoot at them with the vindi force them into pinning and buy time, pretty sure the psyfledread is still moving relentless 4 48" MEQ killing shots. Saying solve its first turn is one thing, but as with anything theres vairables. Most we can do is find the biggest long hitting beatstick we can, and we have more than one or two.

so far the biggest threats to me have been in order of annoyance:

1) Necron doomscythe - always alpha strikes something or things to death and hard to kill

2) Necron overlord with MSS and goodies, still cheap and killy as all get out. Also really strong still with 2+ armor and WBB along with MSS

3) destroyer lord + wraiths, omg, so annoying to fight, shooting them is tough when they get some nice assault moves and jetpack speed

4) immortal/gauss blocks - overwatch is insane and kills all the vehicles as well as being hard as heck to kill. Also WBB rolls make them really survivable, also the tesla barges and transport scythes. Mass flying transports with super survivability and with really good guns... really?

5) LR BT squadrons and to a lesser degree earthshaker squadrons

6) rune of warding + eldrad + shadow field, at least they aren't that fast just getting fleet but my gawd that rerollable 2+ invul is just stupid powerful.

7) Flying monstrous creature spam (ah-la daemons but with perferred enemy shooting, they have just been a pain to my other armies and not much to Gk's, the nids are acutally quite tough still

Anyways, that's the top threats for me. Mass missle launchers from wolves don't scare me as nearly as much anymore. I'll rank them probably around #8.

Any ideas on countering the top threats? (ya I got alot of necrons in the area)


And EDIT to the above: can't shunt and charge in the same turn.

Ok so I have taken the bait and entered a 40k doubles tournie in September, more of a social tournie so a good way to learn the new rules and such before going to a 1500 singles 3 weeks after.

Anyway, my partner is using chaos, and they have changed the players pack to use the allies rules from 6th. Because normally we would not be able to join, we count as desperate allies, so of to a bad start there.

Anyway, with my partner having a khone heavy assault list, my job is to pack all the shooting, but am struggling to work out an 1000 point list to do this.

Any ideas?

(Feel free to PM me so to keep this thread on topic)

Would also say some good points have been raised, lets keep thinking outside the box guys

Desperate allies aren't really that bad especially if you guys already worked out one guy in assault one guy in shooting. Should be plenty far apart from eachother to not worry about the checks.

Need some more details in what you guys are planning and how your FOC works.

Personally my favorite shooting at range would be something like a cheap inquisitor with powers (divination) + psyflemen dreads + acolytes including monkies for long range harrassment and holding the back field. Do you guys get fortifications? If so, I'd also recommend the inquisitor to shoot the quad gun or icrius lascannon for BS4. Can still buff the other monkey shooter teams.

Our best long range shooting has still been psyker battle squads, HB razorbacks, lascannon monkies with divination, and AC dreads. Can have a cheapo techmarine with conversion beamer as well to fortify the monkies firing points/repair hull points.

Psycannons spammed would be more effective at higher points. Also if you could actually be somewhat closer to your ally units would be good too

sudojoe wrote:Our best long range shooting

At 2k: Coteaz (Prescience) + 3 other HQs (3 OSRs) + 6 Techmarines (6 OSRs) = 9 OSRs, rerollable scatter dice from Prescience.

If Prescience doesn't allow rerollable scatter dice, then forget Coteaz and stick in another OSR HQ for 10 OSRs, mastercrafting them to allow scatter rerolls anyway.

Muahahaha - that's a maximum of 30 Large Blast templates on the table per turn! (D3 * 10) Even the average of 20 is scary enough.

sudojoe wrote:Desperate allies aren't really that bad especially if you guys already worked out one guy in assault one guy in shooting. Should be plenty far apart from eachother to not worry about the checks.

Need some more details in what you guys are planning and how your FOC works.

Personally my favorite shooting at range would be something like a cheap inquisitor with powers (divination) + psyflemen dreads + acolytes including monkies for long range harrassment and holding the back field. Do you guys get fortifications? If so, I'd also recommend the inquisitor to shoot the quad gun or icrius lascannon for BS4. Can still buff the other monkey shooter teams.

Our best long range shooting has still been psyker battle squads, HB razorbacks, lascannon monkies with divination, and AC dreads. Can have a cheapo techmarine with conversion beamer as well to fortify the monkies firing points/repair hull points.

Psycannons spammed would be more effective at higher points. Also if you could actually be somewhat closer to your ally units would be good too

Just 1 Hq and 1 troop needed, we also get a extra 250 to spend on one unit, that can either start on the board or placed in reserve. If it is placed in reserve, it will come in turn 3, has to deepstrike, and night fighting rules come into place. Kind of a quirky rule to add some extra fun.

But yeah, was thinking of a coteaz henchman route, would also like to inlcude a dreadknight as I have the model, as I said, as much shooting as I can get

At 2k: Coteaz (Prescience) + 3 other HQs (3 OSRs) + 6 Techmarines (6 OSRs) = 9 OSRs, rerollable scatter dice from Prescience.

If Prescience doesn't allow rerollable scatter dice, then forget Coteaz and stick in another OSR HQ for 10 OSRs, mastercrafting them to allow scatter rerolls anyway.

Muahahaha - that's a maximum of 30 Large Blast templates on the table per turn! (D3 * 10) Even the average of 20 is scary enough.

hahahaha I suddenly see some mechanicus drone walking up to the ship captain and say, "Sir, we have no more ammunition!"

Captain replies, "Damn it! Just throw things overboard at the battlefield, with that many pie plates ordered, I'm sure they are overwhelmed and we'll be sure to hit something!"

Coteaz
3 brother captains with OSR 600 pts
6 techmarines with OSR 840 pts
5 * 8 Psykers 400 pts (S10, AP1)
6 Psykers 60 pts (S8, AP1)

TOTAL 2k

That is between 9 and 33 Large Blast templates per turn. I'm going to try that for a laugh.

Could alter the 46 Psykers to be in 12 units of 3 (S5, AP4) for between 9 and 39 Large Blasts.

doc1234 wrote:Shunt and charge the dreadknight first turn,

You can't shunt and assault.

Joe Mama wrote:

doc1234 wrote:Shunt and charge the dreadknight first turn,

You can't shunt and assault.

Since when? Dont usualy use DK/interceptors but always thought you could?

doc1234 wrote:

Joe Mama wrote:

doc1234 wrote:Shunt and charge the dreadknight first turn,

You can't shunt and assault.

Since when? Dont usualy use DK/interceptors but always thought you could?

The Shunt move says you may not assault after using it.

Grey Templar wrote:

doc1234 wrote:

Joe Mama wrote:

doc1234 wrote:Shunt and charge the dreadknight first turn,

You can't shunt and assault.

Since when? Dont usualy use DK/interceptors but always thought you could?

The Shunt move says you may not assault after using it.

my bad, sorry bout that.

still point still stands with DK shooting, shunt back there and drop a template on the squad.

I think Shunt's best reserved for late game movement. If you need to contest an objective on the last turn(or grab an empty one if the DK/interceptors are scoring)

Grey Templar wrote:I think Shunt's best reserved for late game movement. If you need to contest an objective on the last turn(or grab an empty one if the DK/interceptors are scoring)

I also like it for getting up close to launch my flamer template at a bunch of guys before they get out their parking lot/bunched up state. Screw you night fighting wmahahahaha. No cover for you!

Yeah, first 6th tournament ever. I wiped out an entire unit of Necron Warriors with a well placed Heavy Incinerator on turn 1(not with Shunt)

The Warriors even had a 2+ cover save. And my Librarian got Perfect Timing on his unit.

Grey Templar wrote:Yeah, first 6th tournament ever. I wiped out an entire unit of Necron Warriors with a well placed Heavy Incinerator on turn 1(not with Shunt)

The Warriors even had a 2+ cover save. And my Librarian got Perfect Timing on his unit.

Wow, last time I shot my heavy incinerator at a mob of necron warriors I killed one of them :p and they only had their 3+ save.

Then my dreadknight died.

Warriors only have a 4+ save. Immortals have a 3+.

Grey Templar wrote:Warriors only have a 4+ save. Immortals have a 3+.

I'm sure that is probably what he rolled, he probably just rolled well.

daedalus-templarius wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:Warriors only have a 4+ save. Immortals have a 3+.

I'm sure that is probably what he rolled, he probably just rolled well.

You were probably facing Immortals. Incinerators ignore Warriors' 4+ Armour save.

I just had a wierd sorta of realization today, I keep thinking of my rhinos and razors as transports but since I almost never get one surviving anymore, I'm actually starting to think of them as just another squad member but in box form and carrying a str 6 twin linked 3 shot HB. It's really changing the way I play and reactions to it getting blown up.

I'm even having my men run next to the tank for the most part and just shoot alongside it. I know I'm probably doing this wrong but it's really helped my morale when things start dying. They aren't tanks I'm loosing but they are just a 50 point infantryman....

what do you guys think of that?

sudojoe wrote:I just had a wierd sorta of realization today, I keep thinking of my rhinos and razors as transports but since I almost never get one surviving anymore, I'm actually starting to think of them as just another squad member but in box form and carrying a str 6 twin linked 3 shot HB. It's really changing the way I play and reactions to it getting blown up.

I'm even having my men run next to the tank for the most part and just shoot alongside it. I know I'm probably doing this wrong but it's really helped my morale when things start dying. They aren't tanks I'm loosing but they are just a 50 point infantryman....

what do you guys think of that?

I think using the dedicated transport as mobile cover but with the men outside rather than in is the best policy in 6th. They might start embarked but I think they have to get out on turn two at the latest (especially small squads or squads with crap armour). I suspect 5th edition dogmatists will disagree, but fighting outside the box [geddit?] is the way of 6th, I think.

I'm still seeing lots of lists that are clearly designed to have MSU squads hiding in and firing from Rhinos. Still works to an extent for marines, who at least have a decent armour save for the inevitable explosion, but on the whole, I think the old tactic of just cowering in transports for most or all of the game is gone (and good riddance).

I had 3 psybacks die on me in the first turn last night with another immobilised, so they didn't even get any shooting in. Purge the Alien at 2k against IG, I only just won with 13 vp to 10 vp. My opponent glanced his own Leman Russ to death with its plasma sponsons, whilst my Vindicare took out a vet Chimera, another Leman Russ, and a Bastion (exploded, killing the entire company command squad inside). So yeh vehicles suck now as you can see from this extensive research ;P Oh, and deep striking terminators don't like Marbo's satchel charge (which killed an entire 5 man terminator unit) and a Vet Demolition pack killed another entire 5 man terminator unit. So our terminators suck too. That's it, we're relying on our Vindicare to do everything these days! lol Oh, and Coteaz's Divination powers were game-changing - I do love him so. My henchmen units were ace, the Crusaders took so much heat - laughed off battle cannons and mortars and lascannons.

Sethorly wrote:I had 3 psybacks die on me in the first turn last night with another immobilised, so they didn't even get any shooting in. Purge the Alien at 2k against IG, I only just won with 13 vp to 10 vp. My opponent glanced his own Leman Russ to death with its plasma sponsons, whilst my Vindicare took out a vet Chimera, another Leman Russ, and a Bastion (exploded, killing the entire company command squad inside). So yeh vehicles suck now as you can see from this extensive research ;P Oh, and deep striking terminators don't like Marbo's satchel charge (which killed an entire 5 man terminator unit) and a Vet Demolition pack killed another entire 5 man terminator unit. So our terminators suck too. That's it, we're relying on our Vindicare to do everything these days! lol Oh, and Coteaz's Divination powers were game-changing - I do love him so. My henchmen units were ace, the Crusaders took so much heat - laughed off battle cannons and mortars and lascannons.

Exhaustive research indeed.

Will hopefully get a game in soon, might try and load up on DKs and see what happens. Although my 2 friends are terrible at the game, well, the Tau player isn't bad, the Tyranid player is awful.

Kinda hope more skyfire stuff gets here soon, because until it does you're basically just foolish to not take a Flyer in any build. GK literally have nothing to even specifically shoot down a flyer... except another flyer! (unless you buy a quad gun I guess)

Trouble with DKs is that they attract so much firepower.

Sethorly wrote:whilst my Vindicare took out a vet Chimera, another Leman Russ, and a Bastion (exploded, killing the entire company command squad inside). .

Have to admit, nothing is more badass than a sniper shooting an armored military building and making it explode! Must have hit the Heavy Bolter ammunition!

Transports are really starting to look like death traps now

Sethorly wrote:Trouble with DKs is that they attract so much firepower.

Well, unless there is a stormraven gunship up above that is raining down death. That seems to attract a LOT of firepower.

So do my Paladins filled with Psycannons, to be honest the only thing that doesn't seem to attract a lot of firepower is my psyrifles; mostly because they are far in the back.

I really wish they could assault after a shunt, lol.

Have to admit, nothing is more badass than a sniper shooting an armored military building and making it explode! Must have hit the Heavy Bolter ammunition!

Transports are really starting to look like death traps now

I'm not quite seeing them as death traps but more like a way to get to position and just camp out side of the thing.

I've been doing some fancy parking lot grand theft auto things with my last encounter. Had cotez's attached henchmen squad buy a chimera, the terminator squad takes the thing and drives upfield with it. It explodes on turn 2 and they get to assault out of it but safer than a DS and incredibly cheap ride. Also with 2+ armor, they don't really care that much.

As the chimera can't fit more bodies, I had my techmarine steal another 12 man henchmen squad's dedicated transport (HB razorback) and then join into the terminator squad when (not if) their chimera gets killed on foot.

The rest of my henchmen have taken some advice I've seen here and just drop templates and shoot with monkies with the tank giving good cover.

I am still using alot of AC dreads to good effect but I'm really itching to get my DK assembled now.

Also, due to crappy assault rules out of vehicles, I'm heavily retooling to be more of a gunline than ever before.

I've actually found much less use for the storm raven now that you can only dismount if it moved 6' if you want to do as assault with it which was one of the more cornerstones of my old use of the thing

sudojoe wrote:
I've actually found much less use for the storm raven now that you can only dismount if it moved 6' if you want to do as assault with it which was one of the more cornerstones of my old use of the thing

You don't really need to put any units in it, it is a devastating flyer with pretty good survivability on its own.

Having to go into hover mode is like a death sentence anyway.

daedalus-templarius wrote:

sudojoe wrote:
I've actually found much less use for the storm raven now that you can only dismount if it moved 6' if you want to do as assault with it which was one of the more cornerstones of my old use of the thing

You don't really need to put any units in it, it is a devastating flyer with pretty good survivability on its own.

Having to go into hover mode is like a death sentence anyway.

Ya, pretty much my thoughts exactly. Can't even jump out of it unless you go flat out cause our FAQ is broken so I don't put anything in there anymore.

To me, it's just another fast attack gunboat. Frankly I like the stormtalons. Those things are really neat and skip the costs of transporting which I never use anymore. Also can attach them to drop pods to really kick some butt. I'm almost debating using a SM pod + storm talon force with some GK as allies now.

Edit: I'm now putting together a section on the first page that tries to come up with some ways to overcome deadly combos you may end up facing at tourneys. Your friends may not be doing them but someone out there are. If anyone's come across something cool, please share them with us and let's come up with ways to counter.


You know if they ever gave long fangs flakk and storm talon gunships, I'd feel like they'd be the strongest team for TAC build right up there with necron allies since I'll be getting some sorely needed psychic defense. Not being able to stop buffs is hurting me alot. Maybe go eldar allies? So hard to tell.

Out of interest I tried out a list with Mystics in transports racing up the field first turn to allow Terminators to deep strike without scatter on turn two 2" from the enemy deployment zone. As it happened the tactical situation demanded I moved the Mystics elsewhere, but they worked a treat for deep striking safely in a crowded battlefield.

I do not feel this is a strong build though, as there is so much plasma around: you either deep strike then Run and can't shoot then get taken out by plasma guns, or deep strike then Shoot and get taken out by a single plasma Blast (or satchel/demolition charge or w/e). If you deep strike away from the enemy front lines then you may as well have used a cheaper delivery method. Am I doing it wrong?

How have people's experiences of the Psyflemen been? Mine have been (easily) glanced to death in the first turn every game of 6ed.