Beyond The Gates of Antares - Official Kickstarter Thread

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**Alpharius**

Maybe?

It probably will, but you never know when a potentially great Kickstarter could suddenly get mediocre all of a sudden, ala Wyrd's Through The Breach.

But, as you say, once we can actually see more and know more, it should be OK.

**judgedoug**

Alpharius wrote:
Maybe?
It probably will, but you never know when a potentially great Kickstarter could suddenly get mediocre all of a sudden, ala Wyrd's Through The Breach.

I haven't been following it, do you mind messaging me (don't wanna take the thread offtopic) and giving me a quickie synopsis as to how it got mediocre? Interested in that, because I know it had a huge spike in the first few days.

**Denilsta**

I have £300+ set aside for this, I trust Rick with the rules but I do want to see at least some 3D rendings of the miniatures.
I also agree that so far the bonuses are a bit weak. If there was an amazing first bonus I could see a lot of people (myself included) taking that first step....I personally thought Sedition wars did well with the bonuses.

**PsychoticStorm**

Lets start again, if nothing changes in the sculptors lineup, there will not be any 3D renders because all of them are traditional miniature sculptors, that means sculpting epoxy of their choice, sculpting tools and time.

**cerealkiller195**

Agreed that I think though the pace is relatively steady once that hand model is finished and maybe a bit more concept art is released that more people will pledge

**judgedoug**

It's rather unfortunate, as it's proven that a competent 3D sculptor can outclass most traditional sculptors, esp when it comes to sci-fi (Dreamforge, cough cough)

**Cyporiean**

PsychoticStorm wrote:
Lets start again, if nothing changes in the sculptors lineup, there will not be any 3D renders because all of them are traditional miniature sculptors, that means sculpting epoxy of their choice, sculpting tools and time.

Didn't Bob Naismith do a digital sculpt for Blackwater Gultch?

**Zweischneid**

judgedoug wrote:
It's rather unfortunate, as it's proven that a competent 3D sculptor can outclass most traditional sculptors, esp when it comes to sci-fi (Dreamforge, cough cough)

It is also odd because all that next-generation-digital-Wargaming-3.0 (even with all the "It'll-not-be-Ex-Illis-caveats) is one of the things they are pushing. Yet sculpting and miniatures they do like it's 1985?

**PsychoticStorm**

Zweischneid wrote:
judgedoug wrote:
It's rather unfortunate, as it's proven that a competent 3D sculptor can outclass most traditional sculptors, esp when it comes to sci-fi (Dreamforge, cough cough)

It is also odd because all that next-generation-digital-Wargaming-3.0 (even with all the "It'll-not-be-Ex-Illis-caveats) is one of the things they are pushing. Yet sculpting and miniatures they do like it's 1985?

A decent digital sculptor can be equal to a decent traditional sculptor, but each trade has its pro and con in different situations, as the progress of Digital Art has not eclipsed the traditional painting so the 3D sculpting will not eclipse the traditional sculpting, A good company should know the differences and take the best of each field for their miniatures.

**kenshin620**

Zweischneid wrote:

It is also odd because all that next-generation-digital-Wargaming-3.0 (even with all the "It'll-not-be-Ex-Illis-caveats) is one of the things they are pushing. Yet sculpting and miniatures they do like it's 1985?

Hmm a few ideas on the take

1. Its what they are used to. They started the hobby doing sculpting, they're probably gonna keep on sculpting
2. They're british, the vast majority of british companies do this
3. For purposes of plastics anyways, the producer of the minis may have requested this format

**Albino Squirrel**

Update #11 is up.

Today's update is all about one of the other species we've found in Antarean space - the Pansimians, or sims for short.

PANSIMIANS - SIMS

When Humans spread out into the galaxy in ages past they did not go alone. They took with them domesticated species, wild animals, plants and entire bio-systems from Old Earth. Worlds were terra-formed or built anew in the form of orbital rings or hollow artificial worlds called spheres. The bio-systems of Old Earth were replicated and adapted throughout the galaxy. By the time that humans had spread, multiplied and diversified into the untold Panhuman species that exist today, another group of intelligent creatures from Old Earth had also joined them. These were the descendants of Old Earth apes. Like Panhumans, their evolution had been transgenically enhanced to some extent, boosting their intelligence considerably as well as adapting them to many different environments. Maybe by the time this happened apes had already gained parallel status to humans as fellow sentient creatures, or possibly they were deliberately engineered to undertake tasks felt too dangerous or too difficult for humans. This all happened in the far distant past, and it is impossible to guess at the motives of those long-dead pioneers of Antarean space. Either way, the Spill encompassed not only human and Panhuman societies but societies of Pansimians – commonly called Sims - the descendants of bio-engineered apes.

Today there are numerous Sim worlds throughout the Spill as well as Sim enclaves on human worlds. Sims make excellent fighting troops and can be found amongst even the Concord’s armed forces. As with the various kinds of humans, most Sims would think of themselves of belonging to a particular species or coming from a particular world. For example, K’b Ngo is one such world, whose inhabitant belong to two distinct Pansimian populations: the huge warrior K’bir and the smaller but more intelligent Ngora. Like most Sim worlds K’b Ngo is an independent world that has loose associations with the Free World Determinate. Unlike most Sim civilisations, K’b Ngo has settled other worlds and established its own colonies, The K’b Ngoran Utopica.

The appearance of Sims is – if anything – even more diverse than that of the myriad human species, but few would be recognisable to their primitive ape ancestors of Old Earth. Some are human enough in appearance they can pass as Panhumans, whilst others are savage and monstrous, creatures whose transgenic DNA has mutated unexpectedly. A few are hyper-intelligent, but none are able to exploit the Concord’s IMTel technology in the way of NuHumans. This alone makes it difficult for Sim worlds to integrate with either the Concord or Isorian Shard, and most are independent ExCon planets associated with the Free World Determinate. This does not mean they are technologically backward though. Sim worlds vary a great deal in their development, much as do Panhuman worlds throughout the spill.

Individual spare faring Sims mix fairly freely with humans and can be found throughout Antarean space. They are numerous amongst the ExCon Freebooters, where they often form entire mercenary companies. They also fight as part of the Concord Combined Command (CoCom), the Isorian Shard, Shard Freebooters, and Determinate forces. They are mostly stronger and more robust than practically any human species, and include some of the most accomplished warriors in the whole Spill.

We have lots of ideas about what these chaps look like, but we'd really like to hear your thoughts so head over to the forums if you fancy talking about them or even posting a possible concept for them.

**judgedoug**

kenshin620 wrote:
Zweischneid wrote:

It is also odd because all that next-generation-digital-Wargaming-3.0 (even with all the "It'll-not-be-Ex-Illis-caveats) is one of the things they are pushing. Yet sculpting and miniatures they do like it's 1985?

Hmm a few ideas on the take

1. Its what they are used to. They started the hobby doing sculpting, they're probably gonna keep on sculpting
2. They're british, the vast majority of british companies do this
3. For purposes of plastics anyways, the producer of the minis may have requested this format

In terms of bang-for-the-buck, however, digital sculpting for plastic production is like an order of magnitude cheaper.
UNLESS the rumors are true that Warlord is moving plastics production in-house; their recent 3-ups of Caesarian Romans might be scanned on their own pantograph? Perhaps a chunk of this KS's money is to help fund in-house plastics production? That'd be a hell of an update.

**Necros**

Cyporiean wrote:
PsychoticStorm wrote:
Lets start again, if nothing changes in the sculptors lineup, there will not be any 3D renders because all of them are traditional miniature sculptors, that means sculpting epoxy of their choice, sculpting tools and time.

Didn't Bob Naismith do a digital sculpt for Blackwater Gultch?

He did the gatling gun in 3D, but his men have all been traditional greenstuff sculpts so far. But, he'll likely be doing 3D for a different non-BWG project in the works

I do have a couple of other digital sculptors though

I think both formats are just as good, when you get down to it it's all about skill weather it's skill with putty or pixels.

**judgedoug**

Also Bob Naismith has experience sculpting traditional 3-up plastics. Like most of Mantic's plastics and a huge amount of Victrix and Warlord plastics.

**Duncan_Idaho**

There are also quite some really shoddy 3D-sculpted minis out there, so it really depends on how good the sculptor is in his field.

**Ian Sturrock**

I'm definitely appreciating the extra info, and the glimpses of sculpts.

For me, though, there's no kicker yet... no unique selling point that makes me think I must have this game. My favourite Rogue Trader era game was Space Hulk, so I don't have the nostalgia factor going on. The setting doesn't really grab me -- I feel like I have Infinity for naturalistic SF (not really hard SF, but at least, internally consistent, mostly plausible, etc., rather than space fantasy), and 40K, still, for space fantasy. The minis... can't grab me, yet, because there are none. The rules sound good, but I'd need to read more detail, and play the game, before being sure, I think.

I might not be the target market though. I dunno. I have funded several Kickstarters... I'm just not really grabbed by this one yet.

**Yonan**

Duncan_Idaho wrote:
There are also quite some really shoddy 3D-sculpted minis out there, so it really depends on how good the sculptor is in his field.

The DFG ones were ridiculously awesome though, not to mention the quality of the plastic produced from them - comparison pics to GW showed them as much crisper detail. With theoretical equally skilled sculptor and 3d designers, which will be translated better to plastic with current tech? Or is it just a matter of cost with similar quality produced.

**BobtheInquisitor**

I find the background very intriguing now. There's a sort of Fire Upon the Deep vibe with the IMTeL technology and nanotech everywhere.

I hope they put up some sketches, or at least lengthy descriptions about what look each faction should have. With all the technology and AI's, I hope they don't focus too much on the human body form. It might work for drones meant to use human-standard equipment, but any robots built strictly for fighting should be something like a gun, an engine/repulsor and a small brain/sensor suite. In fact, just about anything weird and nonhuman should work--mechani-squids, tank-robits, asymetrical hovering doodads, depending on what role it performs.

I would love to see a merging of the biological and the technological that is smooth, rather than just tubes and lenses sticking out all over. If everyone is covered in nanotech, they could blend seamlessly into their armor and weapons, or have textured armor embedded in their skin. Think T-1000 or some of Stephan Martiniere's tech paintings. The Orde should have something that fits much more into their background, like the soldiers literally fitting together like parts of a greater machine, maybe? The Freebooters would need layers of protection against C3 nanotech discovering them or maybe overwriting their brains, stuff like masks and visors and electric meshes, biohazard gear, etc.

Basically, I would want to see something that respects the background instead of cramming "Hyper-intelligent AI-designed battledrone" into "looks like ceramic anime babe". I want to see high tech done without tubes and borg parts. I would like to see the same level of care put into the designs as put into the background...if not more. Perhaps a coherent vision that we can see forming between the background, the aesthetic, the rules, and the interaction would help the Kickstarter take off.

Please give us something no one else has.

**catharsix**

Alpharius wrote:
Maybe?

It probably will, but you never know when a potentially great Kickstarter could suddenly get mediocre all of a sudden, ala Wyrd's Through The Breach.

But, as you say, once we can actually see more and know more, it should be OK.

Frankly, I think that if they had actual greens of the minis when they started the KS, it wouldn't be in any danger of not getting funded. I think many people are gun shy when the miniatures in a MINIATURE GAME are sight-unseen.

**Charles Rampant**

I'm a touch worried by the progress as well. I agree that there probably does need to be more to grab people - too many responses have been 'I need to see models' or ever 'I need to see the rules'.

Of course, I think that the reason that they have such a long run is in order to give themselves time to develop and show those things.

**Ravenblade666**

Here an link to an interview Rick did with The shell case.

http://theshellcase.co.uk/2013/01/09/beyond-the-gates-of-antares-an-interview-with-rick-priestly/

**Duncan_Idaho**

Bob, you seem to have some really good ideas. Why you don´t visit the Dev-Forum at DSC-website and help us building the game. Your visions will be apreciated.

**BobtheInquisitor**

I don't know. That sounds like a lot of work.

Maybe if someone PMs me the link so I don't have to back track through the thread, I could convince my tired, angry bones to move again.

(Are you sure I'm wanted? Apparently I've said some mean things.)

**KarlPedder**

AlexHolker wrote:

It also doesn't help that the credits aren't very big. If you're pledging at the $100 level, those first $80,000 worth of stretch goals only get you a single standard trooper.

Now to be fair in this scenario you would get 2 standard troopers....that said in comparison to other similar Kickstarters this is not all that fantastic and like it or not such comparisons will be a factor for many people I would imagine.

BobtheInquisitor wrote:
I don't know. That sounds like a lot of work.

Maybe if someone PMs me the link so I don't have to back track through the thread, I could convince my tired, angry bones to move again.

(Are you sure I'm wanted? Apparently I've said some mean things.)

I wouldn't say mean so much as perhaps not fully informed......

Besides you should see some of the things I've said and I'm moderating the DSC forums......I keep harping on that they NEED to release some info on what the basic funding goal will actually fund in terms of the selection of models you get to select your "custom army" from if not specifics (though they would be better) at least reaching the basic funding goal will produce X number of models composed of X 10 credit, X 20 credit, X 30 credit etc. Also that the stretch goals need to be better fleshed out not just in terms of rewards but again what reaching stretch goal x will fund. And where is the + model CR addon....so yeh...

**AlexHolker**

KarlPedder wrote:
AlexHolker wrote:

It also doesn't help that the credits aren't very big. If you're pledging at the $100 level, those first $80,000 worth of stretch goals only get you a single standard trooper.

Now to be fair in this scenario you would get 2 standard troopers....

If you're buying Ngoras, sure. But they're one of the smaller races - the Revers seem to start at 20 credits.

**KarlPedder**

AlexHolker wrote:
If you're buying Ngoras, sure. But they're one of the smaller races - the Revers seem to start at 20 credits.

Yep you have me there I'd hoped that the Revers listed were special weapon type upgrades and that was why they were 2 peace 20 Credit models and that there would be a single peace "basic" weapon Rever which would only be 10 CR but that doesn't seem to be the case since the basic weapon is apparently the mag/plug gun.....

But it could just be an example of the problems with the examples given for the "custom army" and there will be a 1 peace Rever and why I keep going on about giving us a list.

**god.ra**

imho, 3d is a win win (example is Dark Potential, i supported with my hard earned cash but the models are faaaar away from concepts, like from '80). I wish to support this one but at the moment is just another TT gaming systems and, I don't see nothing special about it... yes going to D10, yes to Chess approach ( you-go-i-go), yes for community inputs to the system , all that is superb but how many peoples will actually play that system?
Market is loaded with GW, PP, unfortunately. And every new stuff GW or PP issues out peoples throwing money at...
Its a bit different to board games that I love and always support kiks, they are designed as a dust collectors and to be use once every blue moon...
but I wish them GL
want a good Kickstarter, design board game with nice models.

**Duncan_Idaho**

Well, it will never change if we do not risk something...

@Bob

Sometimes an opposing voice is worth its weight in gold

.

Here´s the link

http://www.darkspacecorp.com/forum/index.php

**hubcap**

Frankly, I think that if they had actual greens of the minis when they started the KS, it wouldn't be in any danger of not getting funded. I think many people are gun shy when the miniatures in a MINIATURE GAME are sight-unseen.

===

Yeah. This. I am a sucker for monkeymen. If I had a better idea of what the Pansimians would look like, I'd probably be in. I get that they are super-excited about the design process, and that they think that is what will set them apart. But the Kickstarter is all concepts and bullet points. If you want me to buy into a miniature game, it would be a good idea to have at least sketches of the main factions, if not some greens/3-D models.

I realize there is a chicken-and-egg thing going on with development and funding. But it seems like the whole thing needed a few more months of development before going to Kickstarter. Dreadball/Relic Knights/Kingdom Death were able to crank out new concept sketches for new stuff every couple of days. But it seems like here they are still in the broad concept stages of deciding what is what.

I mean...the Kickstarter-exclusive model wasn't even sketched, much less sculpted, before beginning the Kickstarter? Huh?

I wish them luck, but this seems a little half-baked.

**Stranger83**

Whilst I agree hte kickstarter exclusive is something that could have been done I think the point is that they are wanting to design how the fans see them, and not how they themselves might. Indeed, the "catmen" scetches that are on here, I am sure that in the early days of the forum (a few days before the KS started) someone suggested that one of the races should be "catmen" and lots of people agreed, it would appear that the scetches - and no doubt the eventual models are a direct result of that. (of cause it's also possible that they had always intended to have "catmen" and the comment was just luck/planted, but that seems like a lot of effort when they could have just said "we have catmen -here is what they look like).

the point is, I don;t think they could have had sketches/greens as it is the community that is deciding what things should look like (to some degree - I', sure if you suggested something completely outside the universe then it wouldn;t get in - no matter how popular it was). However as the KS goes and the ideas start to come in they can then start to give sketchs/greens that match what people want. At least that is my understanding of the process.