What is the most advanced race in 40k?

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**Psienesis**

The probe story is somewhat apocryphal, since the probe has not yet encountered another galaxy, but it is noted that whatever signals it picks up are Orky in origin.

**Galorian**

OzTeG8ndPwRfl wrote:
Okay then what if we did the average travel time for each on 1000 runs from different points in space to a given location. The net total times would be averaged then compared. I still feel from available fluff the Eldar would win by a whole lot, and I have yet to see compelling evidence that the Necrons would even outrun an Imperial ship in such a contest.

You treat your assumptions on Eldar FTL capabilities as true until proven false and even then mostly true, and yet refuse to accept anything we say about Necron FTL capabilities without irrefutable proof from multiple sources and even then you are all to quick to dismiss it still at the faintest hint of a contradiction.

Seems like a somewhat dishonest debating tactic.

**AtomicEngineer**

Necrons of course, which other race has gone toe to toe with the old ones and won (or did they retcon that in the new dex?)

I mean the old ones created the Eldar just to keep fighting the necrons for them, which means the Necrons are the most advanced race in the current universe.

**Iron_Captain**

AtomicEngineer wrote:
Necrons of course, which other race has gone toe to toe with the old ones and won (or did they retcon that in the new dex?)

I mean the old ones created the Eldar just to keep fighting the necrons for them, which means the Necrons are the most advanced race in the current universe.

I believe it is the Warp that finished off the Old Ones in the end, though the Necrons do deserve credit for being able to push the Old Ones that far.
The Necrons did lose in the end however, due to being weakened by their struggle with the C'Tan, which led to them being defeated by the Eldar and entering their hibernation.

**OzTeG8ndPwRfl**

Galorian wrote:
OzTeG8ndPwRfl wrote:
Okay then what if we did the average travel time for each on 1000 runs from different points in space to a given location. The net total times would be averaged then compared. I still feel from available fluff the Eldar would win by a whole lot, and I have yet to see compelling evidence that the Necrons would even outrun an Imperial ship in such a contest.

You treat your assumptions on Eldar FTL capabilities as true until proven false and even then mostly true, and yet refuse to accept anything we say about Necron FTL capabilities without irrefutable proof from multiple sources and even then you are all to quick to dismiss it still at the faintest hint of a contradiction.

Seems like a somewhat dishonest debating tactic.

I treat no assumptions as true until proven false. Eldar have warp drives, and the web way. Necrons have something called FTL and limited webway use. If warp drive equates a four on the scale, warp drive plus something else equals five. FTL equals a three on my scale, Necrons have FTL so I gave them a three. Then their webway gates were mentioned, so I gave them a four. If their FTL is somehow faster than warp travel they get a five, but until someone gives me evidence they are a four. This is all clear and logical and I fail to see the issue here.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

BrotherOfBone wrote:
OzTeG8ndPwRfl wrote:
BrotherOfBone wrote:
Idolator wrote:
Orks are obviously the most technologically advanced species.

They span several galaxies, not just the one with humans. They have developed a self replicating ecosystem that goes with them where ever they are. Their entire culture and society is self suficient. They can build vehicles, powerplants and weapons out of virtually anything. They can replicate just about any technology after just observing it, while other races can't even use much less replicate ork technology.

This was my point, I just failed to make it very well

What fluff says there are orks in another galaxy? I have never seen this in my life and I have been playing since the end of second edition.

I've forgotten when specifically it was sent out but basically the IOM sent a probe off into deep space and the only signals they've received from other galaxies were from Orks

Not only has that probe not left our galaxy yet, but there is no evidence orks have a tech level anywhere near the Imperium of Man that I am aware of. If you are aware of a tech advancement they have undergone that gives them world destroying or system destroying weaponry please cite it and they will be updated.

**Psienesis**

Necrons have time-travel capabilities. Not accidental screw-ups using the Warp but, should they desire it, they possess the technology to enter specific points of time in order to do things. This technology, in the current era, is specifically wielded by Orikan the Diviner, who uses it judiciously... but often enough that it's basically his schtick.

**OzTeG8ndPwRfl**

Psienesis wrote:
Necrons have time-travel capabilities. Not accidental screw-ups using the Warp but, should they desire it, they possess the technology to enter specific points of time in order to do things. This technology, in the current era, is specifically wielded by Orikan the Diviner, who uses it judiciously... but often enough that it's basically his schtick.

The time travel this is the only reason I gave the Necrons a five for Power Creation. Everything else they do doesn't need that kind of power, buy one would have to blow up an entire universe and one additional string to get the energy necessary to send one atom back in time. That guy has to blow up several every time he time travels.

**Psienesis**

The Necrons destroyed gods with handguns.

**OzTeG8ndPwRfl**

Psienesis wrote:
The Necrons destroyed gods with handguns.

"Gods" apparently are not all that impressive in 40k, but this is why they were given a five for weapons tech, and they are the only ones to be given that high ranking.

**BLADERIKER**

Edited

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Iron_Captain wrote:
AtomicEngineer wrote:
Necrons of course, which other race has gone toe to toe with the old ones and won (or did they retcon that in the new dex?)

I mean the old ones created the Eldar just to keep fighting the necrons for them, which means the Necrons are the most advanced race in the current universe.
I believe it is the Warp that finished off the Old Ones in the end, though the Necrons do deserve credit for being able to push the Old Ones that far.
The Necrons did lose in the end however, due to being weakened by their struggle with the C'Tan, which led to them being defeated by the Eldar and entering their hibernation.

Sadly this is not the case, the Necron's with the help of the C-tan drove the Eldar back into the Webway, killed the Old ones, and lastly the C-tan, and after there were no more enemies to fight, went into the Long sleep to let the universe recover. Also note that the leader of the Necron's "The Silent King" never entered the Stasis, nor did the Praetorian's. So as it stands the Necrons are still the most advanced, they killed the Old ones and enslaved the C-tan. It was only the fact that they were in stasis that let the Eldar rise to power.

**Galorian**

OzTeG8ndPwRfl wrote:
Galorian wrote:
OzTeG8ndPwRfl wrote:
Okay then what if we did the average travel time for each on 1000 runs from different points in space to a given location. The net total times would be averaged then compared. I still feel from available fluff the Eldar would win by a whole lot, and I have yet to see compelling evidence that the Necrons would even outrun an Imperial ship in such a contest.

You treat your assumptions on Eldar FTL capabilities as true until proven false and even then mostly true, and yet refuse to accept anything we say about Necron FTL capabilities without irrefutable proof from multiple sources and even then you are all to quick to dismiss it still at the faintest hint of a contradiction.

Seems like a somewhat dishonest debating tactic.

I treat no assumptions as true until proven false. Eldar have warp drives, and the web way. Necrons have something called FTL and limited webway use. If warp drive equates a four on the scale, warp drive plus something else equals five. FTL equals a three on my scale, Necrons have FTL so I gave them a three. Then their webway gates were mentioned, so I gave them a four. If their FTL is somehow faster than warp travel they get a five, but until someone gives me evidence they are a four. This is all clear and logical and I fail to see the issue here.

This is a completely arbitrary distinction- Warp drives are a form of FTL drives, and not all that impressive for FTL drives at that. Warp drives aren't particularly fast, taking days to weeks to cross a sector on average, are incredibly unreliable due to the very nature of the warp and are limited in terms of jump accuracy. Moreover, Warp drives can be rendered useless by warp phanomenons such as warp storms and the like, and the Necrons thenselves have proven capable of massively disrupting warp travel across an entire sector for over a year with relative ease.

Necron FTL drives on the other hand are reliable and share none of these limitations.

Moreover, you're completely ignoring the Necron's massively superior STL drives and interstellar teleportation capabilities for no discernable reason.

**OzTeG8ndPwRfl**

Very well, since people seems to be getting too heated, this is the new line up if it will get us off of theoretical discussion and back to things actually stated in fluff.

1st: Eldar/Necrons
2nd: Chaos
3rd: Tau/Humanity
4th: Tyranids
5th: Orks

**Bassline**

Necron's do not have a superior in the form of tech.

They have tech that does the following:

Can time travel
Blow up stars
Trap being of living energy into mortal form
Have access to walk between dimensions
Put trackers on people that point them out across the 7 dimensions
FTL travel that does not involve using the warp
Tech that can cut off the warp from realty
Standard guns that strip you apart atom by atom
Phase tech that is put into even the most basic necron warrior
Able to open up the webway via tech and not physic powers

The only thing they do not understand or control at there whim is the ability to control the spark of life. Yet they have the best crypt working on that.

There tech is so good that they are have learnt to control the warp and block it out. The warp that breaks the rules of reality can be stopped by necron tech

But they did break a god that had put the fear of death into every living soul (expect orks) if that is not powerful tech then what else is?

**Tyran**

Bassline wrote:
Able to open up the webway via tech and not physic powers

Eh... that is C'tan tech not Necron one.

**Bassline**

Tyran wrote:
Bassline wrote:
Able to open up the webway via tech and not physic powers

Eh... that is C'tan tech not Necron one.

Its Necron tech. Plus the C'tan did not build any of it tech. Even the bodies were built by the crypteks. The C'tan just kind of helped.

**BrotherOfBone**

Bassline wrote:
Tyran wrote:
Bassline wrote:
Able to open up the webway via tech and not physic powers

Eh... that is C'tan tech not Necron one.

Its Necron tech. Plus the C'tan did not build any of it tech. Even the bodies were built by the crypteks. The C'tan just kind of helped.

That's what the Necrons want you to think

**Tyran**

Bassline wrote:
Tyran wrote:
Bassline wrote:
Able to open up the webway via tech and not physic powers

Eh... that is C'tan tech not Necron one.

Its Necron tech. Plus the C'tan did not build any of it tech. Even the bodies were built by the crypteks. The C'tan just kind of helped.

Well maybe not tech, but it was a C'tan what opened the webway and created the Dolmen Gates.

**Furyou Miko**

C'tan are Necron technology owing to the binding algorythms inherent to ~~pokeballs~~ Tesseract Labyrinths.. Therefore, anything a C'tan can do, the Necrons can do.

**Da Stormlord**

I voted necrons cos of the unique weapons, architecture and the 0grav field 4 tanks

**Xyptc**

In terms of 'conventional' technology and perhaps 'understanding of the universe', Necrons.

I'm very tempted to say Tyranids because they, as a species, have transcended life on our level of existence and exist as an inter-galactic super-organism.

**Tyran**

Furyou Miko wrote:
C'tan are Necron technology owing to the binding algorythms inherent to ~~pokeballs~~ Tesseract Labyrinths.. Therefore, anything a C'tan can do, the Necrons can do.

The C'tan Shards that the Necrons control are vastly weaker than a full complete C'tan.

**Psienesis**

On purpose.

**Jancoran**

Lol. I give Psienesis a prize for least words to convey the most truth, stated in the voice of Captain Obvious's sidekick whose name is Duh.

=)

**pops open the over priced (but now with BLUE!) Sour patch Kids.**

**Lobokai**

Necrons
Eldar
Admech
Tau

In that order, IMO.

**Idolator**

OzTeG8ndPwRfl wrote:
Idolator wrote:
Orks are obviously the most technologically advanced species.

They span several galaxies, not just the one with humans. They have developed a self replicating ecosystem that goes with them where ever they are. Their entire culture and society is self suficient. They can build vehicles, powerplants and weapons out of virtually anything. They can replicate just about any technology after just observing it, while other races can't even use much less replicate ork technology.

This was my point, I just failed to make it very well

What fluff says there are orks in another galaxy? I have never seen this in my life and I have been playing since the end of second edition.

**davethepak**

Necrons.
Clearly.
They can move worlds, have the only real FTL drive and the concepts of their technology (as portrayed by the imperium) is so advanced compared to man, that it is utterly inconceivable that it even works.
From nano technology (hinted at how living metal works) to personal teleporters on their most basic infantry that can cross star systems (phasing out).
That and they have a DEATH RAY. (thats just cool).

With tyranids (depending on your perspective of technology) either a tie for first, or a dead last.

I mean...they don't have to invent something new...they can just grow it.
Whoa.

After crons:
Eldar / DE
Tau (hey imperial guy, its called a "computer", that "machine spirit" you so revere with awe? We call that a drone, they mop our floors...).
Imperium - only slightly more tech savvy than orks. really. I mean, without their "standard template constructs" they can't figure out how to make a tank?
Orks

**Co'tor Shas**

We should also add to the list whether they understand there tech or not.

**Galorian**

Co'tor Shas wrote:
We should also add to the list whether they understand there tech or not.

Aaaaand there goes the IoM...

IIRC the Eldar should also suffer in this regard, though not to the same extent.

**Co'tor Shas**

Galorian wrote:
Co'tor Shas wrote:
We should also add to the list whether they understand there tech or not.

Aaaaand there goes the IoM...

IIRC the Eldar should also suffer in this regard, though not to the same extent.

Yep

. That's one reason I don't view the IoM as anywhere high on the tech list. Even Ork Mekboyz at least know how their stuff works, but your average tech-priest only has belief. I quite like how FFG put it in Dark Heresy:

In the Imperium, most of its citizens have no idea how the manifold examples of extant and ancient technology work or that they even exist. A soldier of the Imperial Guard can field strip his lasgun in under thirty seconds, yet he has no grasp of what purpose the various mechanisms he has pulled out of his weapon actually serve. Even the low level Tech-priests of the Mechanicus of Mars have no comprehension of what it is that they do—their knowledge is by rote. Machines work because their operators followed the appropriate rituals to appease the machine’s “spirit”— not because they pushed the runic button inscribed with the sacred word of power “ON”.

The Imperium prizes a stasis of thought. Traditional ways are always the best ways and obedience to dogma without any consideration for what it may mean is common. Thus, both technology and knowledge have become sacred. All but the most basic of technological devices are thought of as supernatural and capable of being regarded as either holy or unholy. Superstition is commonplace, as the breakdown of knowledge has meant that the majority of the populace are unable to comprehend the reasons why something may be so; the citizens of the Imperium rely on charms and ceremonies to allay their fears as they have little capacity for self-examination or critical thinking. Frequent users of any form of technology know a variety of rituals that they must observe to keep the spirits of their machines placated. There are many who truly believe that ignorance is a form of strength. Active scientific research is rare and often regarded with fear. Outside of the followers of the Omnissiah, it is practically non-existent in the Imperium.

**Iron_Captain**

Humanity is technologically much more advanced than the Tau. The Tau don't have anything near as advanced as the STC. The Tau even lack FTL travel.
The problem with Humanity however, is indeed that since the Age of Strife they no longer understand their own technology and are thus declining as their old, revered technology passes out and they are no longer capable of making any new meaningful technological progress, as the religion they need to maintain their technology also prevents them from inventing something new. And even if they did invent something new, it would never be as good as the old stuff.
The Tau on the other hand, are on the rise. They are unburdened by technological marvels from the past and are rapidly inventing new stuff. They are not yet as advanced as Humanity, but seeing the speed at which they develop and some of the technology they have already invented in this early stage, they will at some point equal or even eclipse the technology invented by Humanity in the Dark Age of Technology.