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Not counting Warp skills:

Necrons 1
Eldar 2
Nids
Tau
Imperium
Orks

Remember that:
-Eldar beat the Necrons in the War in Heaven, but relied heavily on Psykers, then basically did whatever they wanted up until about 30k.
-The reason you see so few D weapons on Eldar military units is because the tech hurts the Materium itself. Only Iyanden uses them regularly
- The reason we see weapons like Shuriken Catapults is because CW Eldar have no industrial capacity to speak of. Those are really just sidearms, not true field weapons.

Eldar weapons tech dwarfs anything the IoM has, although its still behind Necrons.

Eldar. Obviously. They commanded Black holes to do their bidding like a race of Time Lords and they told the cosmos what to do.

Beat THAT.

Yeah, I mean that's cool and all ... but what have have you done for me lately? lol/jk

The hive mind uses Genestealers as shock troops to infiltrate and weaken technologicaly advanced races... They learn the ways of these cultures so thoroughly they fool them into letting them into positions of power... Does this not count as forethought and planning?

That's not really a focused thing though. The stealers are strewn all over the place and some infestations may or may not ever even have a use. Plus, again, they are using the same tactic over and over again. That's the very reason why we know how the Genestealer cults work. Because they don't change their tactics in advance of a potential threat. IMO the Genestealers are to the Tyranids what Saliva is to the human digestive system. IE - just a way to help soften up your food and keep it moving. I would actually argue that at this point reliance on the stealers almost potentially hampers them. I mean without the cults to act as beacons for "ready" worlds what do the Hivefleets even do (besides endlessly circle the Astronomicon lol). All you have to do is ping that signal and you can lead a hive fleet around like a dog on a leash.

The 'Nids aren't really even fighting if you think about it.They aren't bulding a society/empire and they aren't really even actively trying to destroy one ... they're just ... hungry. That's it.
You actually mentioned earlier that you wouldn't rate the Orks as high because "they give no thought to evolution". I would argue that this is, in a way applicable to the Nids as well. They only give "thought" to evolving when they are being killed. Unlike many of the other races, they don't actively seek to better themselves unless they are faced with a dire threat. The Orks in fact DO evolve and innovate new tech just to do it. I woudl argue that the 'Nids ability to "evolve" is being over-stated.

To put it another way - Let's say you have two fighters in a ring. Fighter A and fighter B. Fighter A is relentlessy hammering fighter B. But every fourth or fifth shot fighter B figures out how to block that one specific punch. So fighter A just changes to a new punch and the cycle sarts over. You wouldn't be watching that and saying "Wow look at fighter B evolve his defenses!" You would be saying "Wow! Fighter B is getting destroyed!".

 Jancoran wrote:
Eldar. Obviously. They commanded Black holes to do their bidding like a race of Time Lords and they told the cosmos what to do.

Beat THAT.

Necrons can remotely make any star go super nova with the press of a button AND can form black holes. If you are the master of time and space, making black holes is child's play.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
Eldar. Obviously. They commanded Black holes to do their bidding like a race of Time Lords and they told the cosmos what to do.

Beat THAT.

Necrons can remotely make any star go super nova with the press of a button AND can form black holes. If you are the master of time and space, making black holes is child's play.

Tau can make suns supernova. Admittedly it was an accident at first, but they are working on sunkiller weapons .

I voted Eldar from the point of view they have mastered virtually all forms of weaponry, laser, flame, solid state, warp driven, projectile, blast etc etc.
Few other races have mastered all available weapon types to the level that the Eldar have with very few technological drawbacks (no misfires, jams, gets hot etc).
In addition Wraithbone is a really crazy material if you think about it.

I take your point Oz but this is a wargaming site focused on tabletop battles where faction military technology is key and ultimately paramount.

it counts as murder! MURDERERS!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:


Necrons can remotely make any star go super nova with the press of a button AND can form black holes. If you are the master of time and space, making black holes is child's play.

My Grandma can do that. Eldar can make the sun UN-supernova and time travel themselves back to before it happened and then break the button.

...and time travel themselves back to before it happened and then break the button.

If that part were really true, they'd have undone the birth of Slaanesh by now. On the other hand, at one point they rocked so hard they actually gave birth to Slaanesh so .... yeah. Eldar are still on top (and also, somewhat ironically, they are the most "metal").

Tycho wrote:

Eldar. Obviously. They commanded Black holes to do their bidding like a race of Time Lords and they told the cosmos what to do.

Beat THAT.

Yeah, I mean that's cool and all ... but what have have you done for me lately? lol/jk

The hive mind uses Genestealers as shock troops to infiltrate and weaken technologicaly advanced races... They learn the ways of these cultures so thoroughly they fool them into letting them into positions of power... Does this not count as forethought and planning?

That's not really a focused thing though. The stealers are strewn all over the place and some infestations may or may not ever even have a use. Plus, again, they are using the same tactic over and over again. That's the very reason why we know how the Genestealer cults work. Because they don't change their tactics in advance of a potential threat. IMO the Genestealers are to the Tyranids what Saliva is to the human digestive system. IE - just a way to help soften up your food and keep it moving. I would actually argue that at this point reliance on the stealers almost potentially hampers them. I mean without the cults to act as beacons for "ready" worlds what do the Hivefleets even do (besides endlessly circle the Astronoimicon lol). All you have to do is ping that signal and you can lead a hive fleet around like a dog on a leash.

The 'Nids aren't really even fighting if you think about it.They aren't bulding a society/empire and they aren't really even actively trying to destroy one ... they're just ... hungry. That's it.

The actions of all biological creatures can be explained through analogies to single cell organisms, the question is how do you know there positions are random? How do you know this isn't an elaborate plan? Have you talked to the Hive Mind recently?

Space Marines are still used by humanity, they resemble white blood cells and their actions seem to be nothing more than reactions to external threats to the larger human populace. They have not changed for 10000 years because they work, and they are still used only for that reason.

See what I mean? You can not argue consciousness or intelligence in that way, trust me I tried and was shot down by many a pbilosophy/psychology professor. And who is to say that consciousness is necessarily advanced?

 Jancoran wrote:
it counts as murder! MURDERERS!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:


Necrons can remotely make any star go super nova with the press of a button AND can form black holes. If you are the master of time and space, making black holes is child's play.

My Grandma can do that. Eldar can make the sun UN-supernova and time travel themselves back to before it happened and then break the button.

The Necrons can do that to every single star in the galaxy, possibly the universe depending on how you interpret the Celestial orrery.

Also, Orikan has mastered cheap and easy Time Travel to the point of essentially riding around in his own TARDIS.

Tycho wrote:

Eldar. Obviously. They commanded Black holes to do their bidding like a race of Time Lords and they told the cosmos what to do.

Beat THAT.

Yeah, I mean that's cool and all ... but what have have you done for me lately? lol/jk

The hive mind uses Genestealers as shock troops to infiltrate and weaken technologicaly advanced races... They learn the ways of these cultures so thoroughly they fool them into letting them into positions of power... Does this not count as forethought and planning?

That's not really a focused thing though. The stealers are strewn all over the place and some infestations may or may not ever even have a use. Plus, again, they are using the same tactic over and over again. That's the very reason why we know how the Genestealer cults work. Because they don't change their tactics in advance of a potential threat. IMO the Genestealers are to the Tyranids what Saliva is to the human digestive system. IE - just a way to help soften up your food and keep it moving. I would actually argue that at this point reliance on the stealers almost potentially hampers them. I mean without the cults to act as beacons for "ready" worlds what do the Hivefleets even do (besides endlessly circle the Astronomicon lol). All you have to do is ping that signal and you can lead a hive fleet around like a dog on a leash.

The 'Nids aren't really even fighting if you think about it.They aren't bulding a society/empire and they aren't really even actively trying to destroy one ... they're just ... hungry. That's it.
You actually mentioned earlier that you wouldn't rate the Orks as high because "they give no thought to evolution". I would argue that this is, in a way applicable to the Nids as well. They only give "thought" to evolving when they are being killed. Unlike many of the other races, they don't actively seek to better themselves unless they are faced with a dire threat. The Orks in fact DO evolve and innovate new tech just to do it. I woudl argue that the 'Nids ability to "evolve" is being over-stated.

To put it another way - Let's say you have two fighters in a ring. Fighter A and fighter B. Fighter A is relentlessy hammering fighter B. But every fourth or fifth shot fighter B figures out how to block that one specific punch. So fighter A just changes to a new punch and the cycle sarts over. You wouldn't be watching that and saying "Wow look at fighter B evolve his defenses!" You would be saying "Wow! Fighter B is getting destroyed!".

It's hard to place motives on the Tyranids partly because a lot of what we have of the Tyranids aren't written from the Tyranid's perspective, they're written from the perspective of people being attacked by them. The description of the swarmlord hints at Tyranids potentially having great intelligence and the individual beasts even being able to be autonomous to some degree. The motives and intelligence of the Tyranids is still unknown.

Tyranids being "advanced" isn't just about their motives and intelligence though, it's that they are all linked through the hive mind, they all have their purpose from bugs that devour for energy consumption to bugs like the Swarmlord who is spawned to out think an enemy general, learn from the experience and be reabsorbed ready to do it all again somewhere else.

A greater non-reactionary intelligence that you talk about would be possessed by the more rare "brain bugs" that aren't talked about as often.

I love this thread.

The actions of all biological creatures can be explained through analogies to single cell organisms, the question is how do you know there positions are random? How do you know this isn't an elaborate plan? Have you talked to the Hive Mind recently?

Space Marines are still used by humanity, they resemble white blood cells and their actions seem to be nothing more than reactions to external threats to the larger human populace. They have not changed for 10000 years because they work, and they are still used only for that reason.

See what I mean? You can not argue consciousness or intelligence in that way, trust me I tried and was shot down by many a pbilosophy/psychology professor. And who is to say that consciousness is necessarily advanced?

I'm a Lewis Carol fan and he disagrees with you on that point but we could go back and forth all day on it. Plus, (and I may be misunderstanding you here so apologies if that's the case) I'm not sure i tried to argue consciousness or intelligence in the way you're implying.

Also, on the Marines - in fact they have changed and continue to do so. The progress in most cases is stupid slow (like most things in the Imperium) but they at least actively seek to better themselves rather than to seek a status quo until forced to change. To me that's a trait I look for in an "advanced" society.

But again, if you want to, let's throw that argument out. You still have what basically amounts to somehting that has no FTL, cannot create it's own energy source, only evolves as a response to being killed, operates as an entire race on a zero-sum game of existance, and completely lacks some of the things you listed (such as diplomats for example). IMO you still can't place them as number two.

I love this thread.

Yes. One of my favorites in a while. lol

This thread has taught me that some people take this game WAY to seriously.

**passes Murdius Maximus some popcorn.**

Shut up. Just watch.

 Jancoran wrote:
**passes Murdius Maximus some popcorn.**

Shut up. Just watch.

Hey! Quit hogging the popcorn. We're only on page 4, it's just about tot get good.

Tycho wrote:


I'm a Lewis Carol fan and he disagrees with you on that point but we could go back and forth all day on it. Plus, (and I may be misunderstanding you here so apologies if that's the case) I'm not sure i tried to argue consciousness or intelligence in the way you're implying.

Also, on the Marines - in fact they have changed and continue to do so. The progress in most cases is stupid slow (like most things in the Imperium) but they at least actively seek to better themselves rather than to seek a status quo until forced to change. To me that's a trait I look for in an "advanced" society.

But again, if you want to, let's throw that argument out. You still have what basically amounts to somehting that has no FTL, cannot create it's own energy source, only evolves as a response to being killed, operates as an entire race on a zero-sum game of existance, and completely lacks some of the things you listed (such as diplomats for example). IMO you still can't place them as number two.

Some marines change, others stay the same. The Ultra Marines strict adherence to the Codex can be seen as a lack of any desire to change.

Genestealers develop complex strategies to deal with the societies they infiltrate.
Swarmloards are brilliant tactical geniuses that take in the strategies of opposing armies and apply that knowledge to further engagements.
Hive fleets evolve in the ways that Swarmloards/Brain bugs want them to, not just in response to death. They do however often use their own troops to learn about enemy responses.

If they have no FTL then they spend millions if not billions of years in the void between galaxies. If that is so, they must have a means of power production like photosynthesis at the very least, or they would all be dead after they first left a galaxy. We can't even fathom how this extra galactic species even functions, let alone survives.

This thread has taught me that some people take this game WAY to seriously.

Take the game seriously? Nope. Sure I wish the fluff made more sense, or that the company hired someone with basic writing skill or scientific knowledge to write their fluff, but hey we don't always get what we want. I just find hypothetical discussion to be an interesting way to see how people react. This has been quite fun and stimulating so far.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also Lewis Carroll, or Charles Lutwidge Dodgson, which is his real name, was a mathematician that rejected algebra as poppycock stating that integers were the stuff of children's stories. He is not a source of great logical or philosophical thinking, and a not a reliable source of input to either discipline.

I don't think the Necrons are really all that advanced, their technological abilities are not their own, simply what the C'Tan did to them. So my vote goes to Eldar, based on their weapons technology, their Craftworlds, and their psychic technology. I mean come on, they capture souls and turn them into giant death robots.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Actually, no. Eldar Weapons tech is advanced, but much like the Old Ones, not as advanced as the Necrons. However, what does give them an advantage is their mobility; Eldar can react and move much faster than Necrons, allowing them to quickly flank and apply pressure when needed.

Necrons also have Titans and Large Scale SHV by the way; we just haven't seen them yet. We've only seen a small portion of their armory.

One activated Eldar Blackstone fortress wiped out an eldar fleet off Cadia no?

If they have no FTL then they spend millions if not billions of years in the void between galaxies. If that is so, they must have a means of power production like photosynthesis at the very least, or they would all be dead after they first left a galaxy. We can't even fathom how this extra galactic species even functions, let alone survives.

It's *sort of* covered in the fluff but basically, yeah, everything goes dormant during transit until they can find a new source of bio-mass (which could even include other nids). They can't really produce energy the way the other races can.

So efficiency of power plants and total power output is meaningless.
Size of empire is meaningless.
Art and culture are meaningless.
And diplomatic skill and social structure are meaningless.
Adaptability and ingenuity are meaningless.

What seems to matter to war gamers:
Weapon Tech.
Transportation Tech.

Those are some of the things you listed as wanting to be meaningful.

So for the 'Nids the chart would look like this:

efficiency of power plants -
debatable but certainly not on par with the other races and in no way able to compete with the top tier societies. Also requires fairly rediculous quantities of bio mass to fuel them.

Size of empire-
because of the above there technically is no "nid empire". Just hive fleets and the floating husks left in their wake. If you want to say the fleets are their empire then fair enough but now you're back to needing to consume to live and they are operating on the zero sum game again. That's not much of an "empire".

Art and culture -
the nids have none

diplomatic skill and social structure -
no diplomatic structure at all, "social structure" akin to a highly advance Bee hive ...

Adaptability and ingenuity-
Strongly adaptable so that's definitly one in their favor.

Weapon Tech. -
I know this is category is one that you were annoyed at, but it's also one the nids are pretty decent at. If we were ranking them on this alone I could place them as high as #4.

Transportation Tech.-
They have the weakest form of it when compared to all the other main races

So looking at them in terms of that, still not seeing 'Nids as number two.

 Frazzled wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Actually, no. Eldar Weapons tech is advanced, but much like the Old Ones, not as advanced as the Necrons. However, what does give them an advantage is their mobility; Eldar can react and move much faster than Necrons, allowing them to quickly flank and apply pressure when needed.

Necrons also have Titans and Large Scale SHV by the way; we just haven't seen them yet. We've only seen a small portion of their armory.

One activated Eldar Blackstone fortress wiped out an eldar fleet off Cadia no?

Yep, and an overloaded doomsday ark burnt an entire world to a crisp.
That's 1 necron tank that went haywire after an ork mek decided to have a look inside.

Necron and Eldar tech are some pretty scary stuff.
Hell, those Blackstones were created with the primary purpose of fighting C'tan.

Tycho wrote:

If they have no FTL then they spend millions if not billions of years in the void between galaxies. If that is so, they must have a means of power production like photosynthesis at the very least, or they would all be dead after they first left a galaxy. We can't even fathom how this extra galactic species even functions, let alone survives.

It's *sort of* covered in the fluff but basically, yeah, everything goes dormant during transit until they can find a new source of bio-mass (which could even include other nids). They can't really produce energy the way the other races can.

So efficiency of power plants and total power output is meaningless.
Size of empire is meaningless.
Art and culture are meaningless.
And diplomatic skill and social structure are meaningless.
Adaptability and ingenuity are meaningless.

What seems to matter to war gamers:
Weapon Tech.
Transportation Tech.

Those are some of the things you listed as wanting to be meaningful.

So for the 'Nids the chart would look like this:

efficiency of power plants -
debatable but certainly not on par with the other races and in no way able to compete with the top tier societies. Also requires fairly rediculous quantities of bio mass to fuel them.

Size of empire-
because of the above there technically is no "nid empire". Just hive fleets and the floating husks left in their wake. If you want to say the fleets are their empire then fair enough but now you're back to needing to consume to live and they are operating on the zero sum game again. That's not much of an "empire".

Art and culture -
the nids have none

diplomatic skill and social structure -
no diplomatic structure at all, "social structure" akin to a highly advance Bee hive ...

Adaptability and ingenuity-
Strongly adaptable so that's definitly one in their favor.

Weapon Tech. -
I know this is category is one that you were annoyed at, but it's also one the nids are pretty decent at. If we were ranking them on this alone I could place them as high as #4.

Transportation Tech.-
They have the weakest form of it when compared to all the other main races

So looking at them in terms of that, still not seeing 'Nids as number two.

Hm, my understanding of Nid fluff was incomplete then.

As a revision:

Break down of species characteristics, in no particular order:

Necrons: 25

Highly advanced destructive capabilities and mastery over time itself. Implied high power production as a result of the need to have infinity plus one power to overcome relativity. No sign or explanation as to how they over came this power supply need other than magic. Destructive capabilities reveal an affinity for destruction that outclasses any other race, however the ability goes unexplained and stands beyond any form of physics, explanation for this power as well must be declared as magic.

Over all I would rate them:
Culture: 3
Transportation: 5 (Mastery of FTL and time make long distance travel easy, and can use pocket dimensions)
Power Creation: 5? (They must have something amazing to power their equipment, but nothing particular is mentioned)
Weapons: 5 (Can blow up stars with magic)
Evolution: 1 (They are stagnant and have opted out of the evolutionary process)
Reproduction Rate: 2 (can produce blank slate soldiers)
Item Creation: 4? (They have advanced metals, but must create their items through industrial like processes)

Eldar: 25

With easily the most advanced transportation tech in the game the Web Way, they can control when and where they fight. They have overcome death with wraith tech, and have regularly created whole worlds. The amount of power generation necessary to create a planet is insane, wither they are simply patient, or this is a relatively quick process. If it is quick, this is amazing, and their power tech must at least be at the level of a type two civilization. Their weapons tech is not as powerful as other races though, making them an easy target for conquest.

Over all:
Culture: 4 (Advanced art and social structure has completely overcome biology)
Transportation: 5 (Web Way.)
Power Creation: 4 (Needed to create planets)
Weapons: 3 (Lances are great, but not overly powerful)
Evolution: 2 (Long lives restrict evolutionary advancement)
Reproduction Rate: 2
Item Creation: 5 (Can will items into existence)

Tau: 23

Tau live short lives and thus evolve much faster than other races. This is evident in their technological advancement as their tech has and does quickly overcome any situation. They also appear to have a tactical brilliance bordering on super human. They have regularly outclassed other, more advanced races militarily with nothing, but tactics. Power production is at least on the level of a type one civilization as they have planet wide geothermal nets, however their transportation and weapons tech is in many ways less advanced than are those of other races.However their rail gun tech has made their fleet a force to be reckoned with and can easily and instantly cause a supernova.

Over all:
Culture: 4 (They have not only overcome biology, but have a thriving scientific and artistic sub class. Their diplomatic skills are second to not other race.)
Transportation: 2 (They only have basic FTL)
Power Creation: 3 (Geothermal Nets)
Weapons Tech: 4 (Rail guns and missiles baring artificial intelligence)
Evolution: 4 (They evolve much faster than other races.)
Reproduction Rate: 3
Item Creation: 3 (Advanced materials, but require artisans to produce them)

Humanity: 23

Humanity is stagnant technologically, but still horribly advanced. Their tech includes warp transportation, extermination engines, and vast cities in space. They dwarf many races in power. Their super soldiers are barely beyond rudimentary tech, but they are extremely impressive despite this. Their culture is vibrant, but close minded, and xenophobic, it seems to be designed to preserve the statuesque.

Over all:
Culture: 3 (Advanced and vibrant, but close minded and stagnant)
Transportation: 4 (Warp drive)
Power Creation: 3 (Terra is at least type one)
Weapons Tech: 4 (Titans and extermination engines)
Evolution: 3 (Rather standard life spanes and reproduction rates)
Reproduction Rate: 3
Item Creation: 3 (Advanced metals, but require an expansive industrial infrastructure)

Tyranids: 21

The commander of multiple galaxies and a master of genetic manipulation the hive mind rains supreme as the single most powerful being in the universe thus far. Nothing is said about their power supply or capability, so we will assume that this massively impressive feat was achieved by a type zero civilization. The hive mind does however control both the rate of evolution and reproduction of its many bodies, and can manipulate them to meet any need.

Overall:
Culture: 1 (The Hive Mind is a single entity and thus is stagnant culturally)
Transportation: 1
Power Creation: 2 (The Hive is type zero, but its ability to translate biomass into usable energy is second to none.)
Weapons Tech: 3 (Can instantly evolve the perfect weapon for any engagement)
Evolution: 5 (Controls its own rate of evolution)
Reproduction Rate: 5 (At will)
Item Creation: 4 (Advanced materials created at will, but require spawn pools)

Orks: 17

Impressively numerous and determined to win any and all wars, orks are the perfect weapon. They have shown limited diplomatic skills, and a deep social structure, but for the most part "Da biggest is da boss." Their ability to travel is impressive, but the randomness of it must be taken into consideration.

Overall:
Culture: 3
Transportation: 2 (Warp travel, but random)
Power Creation: 1 (They are the type zeroest of the type zeros)
Weapons Tech: 3 (Their own fists represent some of the most powerful weapons in the galaxy.)
Evolution: 1 (They have never evolved, and don't care to even think about it.)
Reproduction Rate: 5
Item Creation: 2 (Inferior materials, only assembled by the engineer cast)

So now the standings are:

1st: Eldar
2nd: Necrons
3rd: Humanity/Tau
4th: Nids
5th: Orks

 OzTeG8ndPwRfl wrote:
Their ships produce vast amounts of energy, as do many of their biomorphs, their entire civilization is a massive energy generator, and the energy produced is sued to spawn more hive ships and soldiers. And their social political system is so thoroughly evolved they suffer no revolutions or internal struggles and work solely for the hive mind. It is in many ways the perfect political system. And as every tyranid dex has stated, the fleets that have struck here are only scouts. Future fleets will include biomorphs designed solely to crush the lifeforms of our galaxy. They have all the time in the world.

And to say none of that is actually tech is to argue semantics again. See previously posted statements for details.

Can someone explain to me how you produce energy because as far as I know it's not possible.
And no, each Tyranid Codex has hinted at this, none of them have said it.
IIRC the rough thing they said was that they could be scout fleets or this could be it, a shattered fragment of a forgotten race.

In my opinion, Orks. They have the strongest social structure and, honestly, the most ingenious technology. They make warp guns out of scrap metal for god sake.

And, no. They don't have revolutions because they're mindless animals controlled by the greatest psyker (bar one) in the galaxy.

Just for fun I will do Chaos.

Chaos: 26? possibly 27?

Made up of 4 gods, a slew of worshipers and run as a complete meritocracy, Chaos has some interesting characteristics.

Culture: 3 (Has a strict authoritarian government with clear artistic and architectural patterns.)
Transportation: 5 (Can go anywhere it wants and communicate instantly anywhere)
Power Creation: 3 (Relies on worshipers for power, but has no shortage)
Weapons Tech: 4 (Has everything its worshipers have and more)
Evolution: 2 (relies heavily on worshipers for evolutionary change)
Reproduction: 4-5 (gains worshipers daily, daemons can be created at will for any occasion)
Item Creation: 5 (Gods can will just about anything into existence, and use captured industry from worshipers)

This would mean Chaos wins?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BrotherOfBone wrote:

 OzTeG8ndPwRfl wrote:
Their ships produce vast amounts of energy, as do many of their biomorphs, their entire civilization is a massive energy generator, and the energy produced is sued to spawn more hive ships and soldiers. And their social political system is so thoroughly evolved they suffer no revolutions or internal struggles and work solely for the hive mind. It is in many ways the perfect political system. And as every tyranid dex has stated, the fleets that have struck here are only scouts. Future fleets will include biomorphs designed solely to crush the lifeforms of our galaxy. They have all the time in the world.

And to say none of that is actually tech is to argue semantics again. See previously posted statements for details.

Can someone explain to me how you produce energy because as far as I know it's not possible.
And no, each Tyranid Codex has hinted at this, none of them have said it.
IIRC the rough thing they said was that they could be scout fleets or this could be it, a shattered fragment of a forgotten race.

In my opinion, Orks. They have the strongest social structure and, honestly, the most ingenious technology. They make warp guns out of scrap metal for god sake.

And, no. They don't have revolutions because they're mindless animals controlled by the greatest psyker (bar one) in the galaxy.

Orks fight each other every day, when there is no other race to fight that is. And when the biggest is killed fights instantly break out over who is in charge. Who is this most powerful psycher? I haven't heard this bit of fluff.

 OzTeG8ndPwRfl wrote:
Just for fun I will do Chaos.

Chaos: 26? possibly 27?

Made up of 4 gods, a slew of worshipers and run as a complete meritocracy, Chaos has some interesting characteristics.

Culture: 3 (Has a strict authoritarian government with clear artistic and architectural patterns.)
Transportation: 5 (Can go anywhere it wants and communicate instantly anywhere)
Power Creation: 3 (Relies on worshipers for power, but has no shortage)
Weapons Tech: 4 (Has everything its worshipers have and more)
Evolution: 2 (relies heavily on worshipers for evolutionary change)
Reproduction: 4-5 (gains worshipers daily, daemons can be created at will for any occasion)
Item Creation: 5 (Gods can will just about anything into existence, and use captured industry from worshipers)

This would mean Chaos wins?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BrotherOfBone wrote:

 OzTeG8ndPwRfl wrote:
Their ships produce vast amounts of energy, as do many of their biomorphs, their entire civilization is a massive energy generator, and the energy produced is sued to spawn more hive ships and soldiers. And their social political system is so thoroughly evolved they suffer no revolutions or internal struggles and work solely for the hive mind. It is in many ways the perfect political system. And as every tyranid dex has stated, the fleets that have struck here are only scouts. Future fleets will include biomorphs designed solely to crush the lifeforms of our galaxy. They have all the time in the world.

And to say none of that is actually tech is to argue semantics again. See previously posted statements for details.

Can someone explain to me how you produce energy because as far as I know it's not possible.
And no, each Tyranid Codex has hinted at this, none of them have said it.
IIRC the rough thing they said was that they could be scout fleets or this could be it, a shattered fragment of a forgotten race.

In my opinion, Orks. They have the strongest social structure and, honestly, the most ingenious technology. They make warp guns out of scrap metal for god sake.

And, no. They don't have revolutions because they're mindless animals controlled by the greatest psyker (bar one) in the galaxy.

Orks fight each other every day, when there is no other race to fight that is. And when the biggest is killed fights instantly break out over who is in charge. Who is this most powerful psycher? I haven't heard this bit of fluff.

The Emperor, it's the reason the Tyranids are drawn to the Astronomican.
And, yes. The Orks have the perfect social system. No revolution, just leader after leader after leader. They also weak out the weakest through infighting, it's Darwinism perfected. The strongest survive and the strongest lead.
IMO it goes:
Empy
Hive Mind
Kairos
Etc.

Also, let's not forget the minor gods. There's a god for literally everything, it's just we always hear about the Big 4. Let's not forget Malice
In terms of power creation, they have unlimited, yet finite power, if that makes any sense. There is always a certain amount of power shared between all of the gods, no more is created but it is limitless in its depth.

Current standing according to my rubric is:

1st: Chaos
2nd: Eldar
3rd: Necrons
4th: Humanity/Tau
5th: Tyranids
6th: Orks

Sorry ork players but Codex Farsight Enclaves features in depth stories of ork revolutions and insurrection. I have no doubt that they may have a few empires that lack this phenomenon, but for the most part this seems to be true. Evidence otherwise if cited properly will be taken into consideration and the scoring changed as necessary.

 OzTeG8ndPwRfl wrote:
Current standing according to my rubric is:

1st: Chaos
2nd: Eldar
3rd: Necrons
4th: Humanity/Tau
5th: Tyranids
6th: Orks

Sorry ork players but Codex Farsight Enclaves features in depth stories of ork revolutions and insurrection. I have no doubt that they may have a few empires that lack this phenomenon, but for the most part this seems to be true. Evidence otherwise if cited properly will be taken into consideration and the scoring changed as necessary.

If we're talking about society Chaos are worse than Orks. They're always fighting amongst eachother or plotting and scheming.

 Happyjew wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
**passes Murdius Maximus some popcorn.**

Shut up. Just watch.

Hey! Quit hogging the popcorn. We're only on page 4, it's just about tot get good.

**passes the OTHER bag of popcorn you didn't see**

I got your back bro.

If we're talking about society Chaos are worse than Orks. They're always fighting amongst eachother or plotting and scheming.

This statement is true, but outweighed by the artistic and literary traditions that have grown up around chaos cults. Orcs have no true artistic tradition other than the creation of their weapons and vehicles. For this reason I gave them the same score for culture in my rubric.

Necrons: 24

Highly advanced destructive capabilities and mastery over time itself. Implied high power production as a result of the need to have infinity plus one power to overcome relativity. No sign or explanation as to how they over came this power supply need other than magic. Destructive capabilities reveal an affinity for destruction that outclasses any other race, however the ability goes unexplained and stands beyond any form of physics, explanation for this power as well must be declared as magic.

Over all I would rate them:
Culture: 3
Transportation: 4 (Mastery of FTL and time make long distance travel easy, and can use pocket dimensions)
Power Creation: 5? (They must have something amazing to power their equipment, but nothing particular is mentioned)
Weapons: 5 (Can blow up stars with magic)
Evolution: 1 (They are stagnant and have opted out of the evolutionary process)
Reproduction Rate: 2 (can produce blank slate soldiers)
Item Creation: 4? (They have advanced metals, but must create their items through industrial like processes)

Necrons don't use magic. Their understanding of science is light-years beyond the greatest Humanity has ever known. They are a faction that does with Science!! that other factions do with magic or warp-craft. They are, in a sense, villains from 1950s sci-fi movies, using advanced genetics to create the terrible weapon of a monkey with five asses because they can.

The Necrons made physics their bi*ch. The Necrons made relativity their bi*ch. They made quantum theory their bi*ch. They made things humanity currently takes for granted in reality their bi*ch. The Necron mastery of Pimp Hand is, indeed, terrifyingly strong, as they have pimp-slapped reality into serving them.

 Psienesis wrote:

Necrons: 24

Highly advanced destructive capabilities and mastery over time itself. Implied high power production as a result of the need to have infinity plus one power to overcome relativity. No sign or explanation as to how they over came this power supply need other than magic. Destructive capabilities reveal an affinity for destruction that outclasses any other race, however the ability goes unexplained and stands beyond any form of physics, explanation for this power as well must be declared as magic.

Over all I would rate them:
Culture: 3
Transportation: 4 (Mastery of FTL and time make long distance travel easy, and can use pocket dimensions)
Power Creation: 5? (They must have something amazing to power their equipment, but nothing particular is mentioned)
Weapons: 5 (Can blow up stars with magic)
Evolution: 1 (They are stagnant and have opted out of the evolutionary process)
Reproduction Rate: 2 (can produce blank slate soldiers)
Item Creation: 4? (They have advanced metals, but must create their items through industrial like processes)

Necrons don't use magic. Their understanding of science is light-years beyond the greatest Humanity has ever known. They are a faction that does with Science!! that other factions do with magic or warp-craft. They are, in a sense, villains from 1950s sci-fi movies, using advanced genetics to create the terrible weapon of a monkey with five asses because they can.

The Necrons made physics their bi*ch. The Necrons made relativity their bi*ch. They made quantum theory their bi*ch. They made things humanity currently takes for granted in reality their bi*ch. The Necron mastery of Pimp Hand is, indeed, terrifyingly strong, as they have pimp-slapped reality into serving them.

I was not saying they use magic, only that magic, or the equivalent would be needed for actual people in the real world to achieve those feats. My way of being sarcastic that is to say. It is my opinion the writers in their infinite childishness gave the Necrons those things just to hit home how super advanced they wanted people to believe they were.

But then this is my opinion, and I hate GW's writers.