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Made in au
[MOD]
Making Stuff






Under the couch

JWBS wrote:
These paints look basic,...

What does this mean?


 
   
Made in us
Battle-tested Knight Castellan Pilot




Oakland, CA

Having marketing photos that include a range of painting skill levels is very important, IMO.

The top-shelf level painting shows what talented individuals can do with the medium, and that they choose it over other options.
   
Made in gb
Fanatic with Madcap Mushrooms







They look like something army painter would display has examples.

Duncan is more about simple tabletop quality paint jobs and those are just that.
Would be nice to also cater to a different audience to be honest.
The examples provided don't inspire me to go out of my way.

I would like to add that better than painted minis (and not that well photographed since theres shadows everywhere) would be something like GW did for the contrast paints.
Prime a base white and then apply 1 coat of paint and add to a chart.

   
Made in us
Krazed Killa Kan





SoCal

I'd also like to see these paints used in something more of a high end paint job. Because honestly, most of us and I have a collection of other paints like Vallejo, I'd like to see this set do something those others don't.

   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




 Monkeysloth wrote:
 Ghaz wrote:
 Monkeysloth wrote:
I do find it interesting that Duncan isn't actually involved in the KSer at all outside of the initial videos. Just leads me to believe that the only real involvement he really has its licensing his name -- which there's nothing wrong with -- and being paid to use them (either via licensing or portion of sales) much like chefs and their cooking lines. Just odd for such a small hobby where that kind of involvement it's normal.

It's been mentioned multiple times in the comments that both Duncan and Roger worked with the chemists on the paint formulations. That's a bit more than just 'licensing his name'.



Chefs provide recipes for the food that companies license from them too. They're paid to provide a service and that's all. He's done that and completed his obligations. Once the paint is finished he'll get more money to paint with them. He's just a contractor--which is my main point. Again. Nothing wrong with that as it's pretty common in lots of other areas. Just the first time I've seen it in this hobby where the painter name is also part of the deal.


Agreed. It's become clear it's not *his* paint line, it's this other companies paint line and he's working on it. Which as you say, is fine. But that's part of what put me off as well. The money isn't going to Duncan to kickstart a new paint line that he's always wanted to do, providing us the with the sort of paints he's always wanted to paint with. It's going to a company that wants to compete in the Citadel/Vallejo/Army Painter space and this is their way in.

You can tell from the lack of engagement from Duncan in the campaign. If this was his own personal project there's no way he'd be "too busy" to engage in the comments or produce more content. Not if it was his own business and people were potentially giving him a million quid.

And that's fine, I'm sure the paints will be good, I imagine some of them might even be the best option in certain painting circumstances, some of the colours might be the best out there. But I don't think they'll be anything special. Indeed, the thing lacking from the campaign entirely has been telling us why these are special. Methinks because they're not.

(I think that maybe ties in with my earlier complaints about getting minis, not paint-related stuff as stretch goals - the campaign should be about the paints, the updates should be about "why this yellow has better coverage than any other yellow - it's so good we'll give you an extra pot if we reach half a million" not "look at this really cool miniature you'll get for free!")

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/29 09:45:10


 
   
Made in us
Lieutenant General





Florence, KY

 Monkeysloth wrote:
 Ghaz wrote:
 Monkeysloth wrote:
I do find it interesting that Duncan isn't actually involved in the KSer at all outside of the initial videos. Just leads me to believe that the only real involvement he really has its licensing his name -- which there's nothing wrong with -- and being paid to use them (either via licensing or portion of sales) much like chefs and their cooking lines. Just odd for such a small hobby where that kind of involvement it's normal.

It's been mentioned multiple times in the comments that both Duncan and Roger worked with the chemists on the paint formulations. That's a bit more than just 'licensing his name'.



Chefs provide recipes for the food that companies license from them too. They're paid to provide a service and that's all. He's done that and completed his obligations. Once the paint is finished he'll get more money to paint with them. He's just a contractor--which is my main point. Again. Nothing wrong with that as it's pretty common in lots of other areas. Just the first time I've seen it in this hobby where the painter name is also part of the deal.

I see you conveniently cut the part that proves that you don't know what you're talking about...

'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable
defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'

- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty
Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
 
   
Made in gb
Veteran Knight Baron in a Crusader





 insaniak wrote:
JWBS wrote:
These paints look basic,...

What does this mean?


I meant it as generic disparagement. The paintjobs look dull and visually unappealing. They cost $4 each though, this equals £3, I pay £2 for valejo, which have more paint, and £2 for Citadel too (but less paint). Main criticism though is the colours are ugly.
   
Made in us
Member of the Ethereal Council






I think thats the thing.
What sets these paints apart or make them good?
Are they only good for layering? can i glaze with them? How well do they airbrush? can i wet blend?
and by basic, there are no interesting colors or anything like that. They look like they fill the niche army painter has.......but are more expensive then army painter with a bit less variety.

5000pts 6000pts 3000pts
 
   
Made in us
Daemonic Dreadnought





Eye of Terror

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
I think thats the thing.
What sets these paints apart or make them good?
Are they only good for layering? can i glaze with them? How well do they airbrush? can i wet blend?
and by basic, there are no interesting colors or anything like that. They look like they fill the niche army painter has.......but are more expensive then army painter with a bit less variety.


Each of these techniques can be performed with any paint. They are a matter of pigment density, compatibility with a glaze medium, ability to thin, and viscosity.

Considering no one has actually used the paints, I doubt there's a way to answer your questions about 'how good' they are for each specific purpose.

But I'll be sure to share my thoughts once my complete set arrives.

   
Made in us
Member of the Ethereal Council






Ok but why not show it? Why are there not people out there with advance sets painting with them?
Yes you can do any of those, but some paint brands excel at other(EG, Scale75 is great at layering and glazing.)
why are they not showing what can be done with these paints.
Showing basic paint jobs is like saying "Well our car can get up to 75mph" well I want to know the supper limit of it.

5000pts 6000pts 3000pts
 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Ghaz wrote:
 Monkeysloth wrote:
 Ghaz wrote:
 Monkeysloth wrote:
I do find it interesting that Duncan isn't actually involved in the KSer at all outside of the initial videos. Just leads me to believe that the only real involvement he really has its licensing his name -- which there's nothing wrong with -- and being paid to use them (either via licensing or portion of sales) much like chefs and their cooking lines. Just odd for such a small hobby where that kind of involvement it's normal.

It's been mentioned multiple times in the comments that both Duncan and Roger worked with the chemists on the paint formulations. That's a bit more than just 'licensing his name'.



Chefs provide recipes for the food that companies license from them too. They're paid to provide a service and that's all. He's done that and completed his obligations. Once the paint is finished he'll get more money to paint with them. He's just a contractor--which is my main point. Again. Nothing wrong with that as it's pretty common in lots of other areas. Just the first time I've seen it in this hobby where the painter name is also part of the deal.

I see you conveniently cut the part that proves that you don't know what you're talking about...


The quote that basically said he talked a few times to the people actually designing the paints? I'm not sure how that disproves my point. Also I'm not sure why this upsets you so much. He's not an owner/partner with Transatlantic Games, as far as anyone knows, so this is what's to be expected. Another company reached out and wanted to pay him for his time and brand for a paint line. I'd do it if I were him. It's hard to set up you own paint company and provide a full line and get it into distribution. Why take that risk yourself when someone else will do it and pay you for your involvement? It's clearly the smart decision on Duncan's end. The only person I can think of that did successfully created their own line, using their name as a selling point, was Mig Jimenez.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
deano2099 wrote:


And that's fine, I'm sure the paints will be good, I imagine some of them might even be the best option in certain painting circumstances, some of the colours might be the best out there. But I don't think they'll be anything special. Indeed, the thing lacking from the campaign entirely has been telling us why these are special. Methinks because they're not.



I think people are overthinking what paint is capable of if you're expecting something brand new that no one has ever seen before. Even contrast paints weren't something new there were lots of painters in our hobby that mixed their own for years before GW released their set. I even have a paint guide some a miniature line showing how to make them. We're such a small sub section of the model figure hobby that we tend to get things marketed to us years after others have adopted something new.

The reason for these is the same that Wizkids is getting into to paints. The market is growing due to the popularity of D&D at the moment and Duncan's brand of simple, clean paint jobs are going to appeal to a lot of RPG people combine that with Duncan's popularity with people that are fine with tabletop quality paint jobs for the armies and you have a pretty starting point--so this is a very good time to get into the market.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/09/29 19:21:36


 
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut




techsoldaten wrote:
 hotsauceman1 wrote:
I think thats the thing.
What sets these paints apart or make them good?
Are they only good for layering? can i glaze with them? How well do they airbrush? can i wet blend?
and by basic, there are no interesting colors or anything like that. They look like they fill the niche army painter has.......but are more expensive then army painter with a bit less variety.
Each of these techniques can be performed with any paint. They are a matter of pigment density, compatibility with a glaze medium, ability to thin, and viscosity.

Considering no one has actually used the paints, I doubt there's a way to answer your questions about 'how good' they are for each specific purpose.

But I'll be sure to share my thoughts once my complete set arrives.
I agree with hotsauceman1. Wouldn't it be nice if they would explain some of that on their own? Show examples of how it works with those paints. Duncan has used these paints, after all, and he paints miniatures for a living. They are trying to convince us of the quality of those paints. It shouldn't be your job to advertise them. Have they shown videos of Duncan painting the miniatures that were shown with those paints? I haven't paid the campaign much attention so I don't know but if they have then those videos would probably be much more interesting and informative than bragging about working with top paint chemists. Show, don't tell and all that.

That being said, getting finished paint jobs of GD level miniatures would be close to pointless as these are often achieved with more persnickety techniques (often way more layers of very thin paint than on the average army miniature). For a line of paints that based around the idea of being solid for quick and clean army paint jobs I'd want examples/explanations around that topic, not some GD paint jobs where the painter works with different media and thinners.
   
Made in us
Rogue Daemonhunter fueled by Chaos






Macon, GA

The reason I didn't back these is simple: I didn't see anything unique or special about these paints to allow them to compete at that price point and preorder status. I'm not saying I'll never buy some, or that they're bad, I just don't see why I would pay up front, with no real discount, for paints when I have plenty.


My Painted Armies
: Co. B, 37th Praetorian IG: 21,000pts
KOW Ogres: 4500 points
Loyalist Emperor's Children: 2500 points 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




 techsoldaten wrote:

Considering no one has actually used the paints, I doubt there's a way to answer your questions about 'how good' they are for each specific purpose.


But Duncan has used them, they have his name on, and he literally makes painting tutorial videos on the internet for a living. And I know Duncan's usual style is relatively basic but it's not like he doesn't know what glazing is or how to mix a wash. They're in the perfect position to be able to demonstrate this stuff but aren't.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Monkeysloth wrote:
[
deano2099 wrote:


And that's fine, I'm sure the paints will be good, I imagine some of them might even be the best option in certain painting circumstances, some of the colours might be the best out there. But I don't think they'll be anything special. Indeed, the thing lacking from the campaign entirely has been telling us why these are special. Methinks because they're not.



I think people are overthinking what paint is capable of if you're expecting something brand new that no one has ever seen before. Even contrast paints weren't something new there were lots of painters in our hobby that mixed their own for years before GW released their set. I even have a paint guide some a miniature line showing how to make them. We're such a small sub section of the model figure hobby that we tend to get things marketed to us years after others have adopted something new.


I'm not expecting them to be revolutionary, but y'know, every paint line has something going for it right? Citadel has arguably the best washes and the coverage on their base paints is really good. Schmincke make the only white I can be bothered with. Other manufacturers do metallics or fluorescents better. Others have a better airbrush range, and so on. But I guess picking one thing and saying "this is what we're the best at" is counter-productive to selling people entire sets of the paint line.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/29 22:40:14


 
   
Made in us
Member of the Ethereal Council






I just want to know if they are satin or Matte paints.

5000pts 6000pts 3000pts
 
   
Made in us
Rogue Daemonhunter fueled by Chaos






Macon, GA

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
I just want to know if they are satin or Matte paints.


That’s a fair question, as is the opacity, how much they can be thinned, or what the medium is like.

Here’s a link to Warcolours, a line of paints I like in many ways, and they detail all of that and more for each range and color: https://www.warcolours.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=59&product_id=51


My Painted Armies
: Co. B, 37th Praetorian IG: 21,000pts
KOW Ogres: 4500 points
Loyalist Emperor's Children: 2500 points 
   
Made in us
Daemonic Dreadnought





Eye of Terror

Mario wrote:
techsoldaten wrote:
 hotsauceman1 wrote:
I think thats the thing.
What sets these paints apart or make them good?
Are they only good for layering? can i glaze with them? How well do they airbrush? can i wet blend?
and by basic, there are no interesting colors or anything like that. They look like they fill the niche army painter has.......but are more expensive then army painter with a bit less variety.
Each of these techniques can be performed with any paint. They are a matter of pigment density, compatibility with a glaze medium, ability to thin, and viscosity.

Considering no one has actually used the paints, I doubt there's a way to answer your questions about 'how good' they are for each specific purpose.

But I'll be sure to share my thoughts once my complete set arrives.
I agree with hotsauceman1. Wouldn't it be nice if they would explain some of that on their own? Show examples of how it works with those paints. Duncan has used these paints, after all, and he paints miniatures for a living. They are trying to convince us of the quality of those paints. It shouldn't be your job to advertise them. Have they shown videos of Duncan painting the miniatures that were shown with those paints? I haven't paid the campaign much attention so I don't know but if they have then those videos would probably be much more interesting and informative than bragging about working with top paint chemists. Show, don't tell and all that.

That being said, getting finished paint jobs of GD level miniatures would be close to pointless as these are often achieved with more persnickety techniques (often way more layers of very thin paint than on the average army miniature). For a line of paints that based around the idea of being solid for quick and clean army paint jobs I'd want examples/explanations around that topic, not some GD paint jobs where the painter works with different media and thinners.

Quick and easy solutions for achieving GD quality paint jobs seems like a big ask.

I'm not expecting anything groundbreaking, just useful.


   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut






Surprised it managed to get that much money. As other said, there doesn't seems to be anything special with these.paints, and I don't see the point of buying them and in advance when the price is not that good.

Good for them though, and wish them luck and success

lost and damned log
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/519978.page#6525039 
   
Made in us
Member of the Ethereal Council






 techsoldaten wrote:
Mario wrote:
techsoldaten wrote:
 hotsauceman1 wrote:
I think thats the thing.
What sets these paints apart or make them good?
Are they only good for layering? can i glaze with them? How well do they airbrush? can i wet blend?
and by basic, there are no interesting colors or anything like that. They look like they fill the niche army painter has.......but are more expensive then army painter with a bit less variety.
Each of these techniques can be performed with any paint. They are a matter of pigment density, compatibility with a glaze medium, ability to thin, and viscosity.

Considering no one has actually used the paints, I doubt there's a way to answer your questions about 'how good' they are for each specific purpose.

But I'll be sure to share my thoughts once my complete set arrives.
I agree with hotsauceman1. Wouldn't it be nice if they would explain some of that on their own? Show examples of how it works with those paints. Duncan has used these paints, after all, and he paints miniatures for a living. They are trying to convince us of the quality of those paints. It shouldn't be your job to advertise them. Have they shown videos of Duncan painting the miniatures that were shown with those paints? I haven't paid the campaign much attention so I don't know but if they have then those videos would probably be much more interesting and informative than bragging about working with top paint chemists. Show, don't tell and all that.

That being said, getting finished paint jobs of GD level miniatures would be close to pointless as these are often achieved with more persnickety techniques (often way more layers of very thin paint than on the average army miniature). For a line of paints that based around the idea of being solid for quick and clean army paint jobs I'd want examples/explanations around that topic, not some GD paint jobs where the painter works with different media and thinners.

Quick and easy solutions for achieving GD quality paint jobs seems like a big ask.

I'm not expecting anything groundbreaking, just useful.


There is no quick and easy way to GD. it requires uunderstanding of light, texture, color theory and a host of other stuff.

5000pts 6000pts 3000pts
 
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut




techsoldaten wrote:Quick and easy solutions for achieving GD quality paint jobs seems like a big ask.

I'm not expecting anything groundbreaking, just useful.
That's why I wrote that it would be "close to pointless" ("close to" as you get a fancy miniature to look at, after all). Another comment said something about comparing those example miniatures to fancy GW paint jobs. It would only show that one can paint GD quality with those paints (which you can do with nearly any paints anyways) but that's not really a useful metric when you are selling a paint line as fitting Duncan's paint style which is based more around a clean and relatively fast result. A few videos showing how useful those paints can be when applied to some of the techniques Duncan uses, and showing how he does it, could probably be informative instead of just showing some photos of the finished miniatures.

You can spend tens of hours on a miniature with nearly any paints if you want a GD quality paint job. You can do that to show off miniatures from a miniature line but it says little about the miniature paints besides that they can be used on miniatures which is a bit tautological.
   
 
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