Switch Theme:

Oldhammer 40k  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Alpharius wrote:
OK, so far we've got:

San Francisco
Tampa
Boston

We pretty much picked the 3 places farthest away from each other!


I still remember watching the "Streets of San Francicso" with Karl Malden & Michael Douglas. Meet there, rent a tram and play 40K aboard while driving across the hilly cityscape.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran






 Insectum7 wrote:
Rihgu wrote:
Just get Tabletop Simulator, y'all
Weren't there some issues with that? I haven't kept up.


There was some internet bru-ha-ha about the company managing TTS not properly paying royalties to another company that was selling Premium mods on the platform. Who the heck knows.

TTS is pretty awesome for 40K though.

I need to get my ProHammer / classic 40K table mod cleaned up and properly added to the workshop. I remade a lot of old tokens based on 2nd edition style (overwatch, broken, etc) to use with ProHammer. Also a whole custom terrain layout thing. Makes playing games pretty easy.

Want a better 40K?
Check out ProHammer: Classic - An Awesomely Unified Ruleset for 3rd - 7th Edition 40K... for retro 40k feels!
 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar






Rihgu wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:
Rihgu wrote:
Just get Tabletop Simulator, y'all
Weren't there some issues with that? I haven't kept up.


Not that I've heard of? Technical issues or ethical issues? I've been using it technically fine fairly consistently. Don't know if the company in charge turns out to be neo-nazis or using the service to groom minors, though.
Oh I thought they got into legal trouble or something. But if you're using it and it's working fine then I suppose it's still viable

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Imperial Guard Landspeeder Pilot




On moon miranda.

 amanita wrote:

Games Workshop instead added the hull point mechanic, making vehicles get destroyed by an additional method and when that obviously failed they simply turned them into giant rolling meat sacks for simplicity's sake. Some really like this, but I can't fathom why.
Yeah, that was one of the single most boneheaded things GW ever did. It didn't work terribly well, added another stat to print and track and record, and just frustrated gameplay.

 Jayden63 wrote:
 Da Boss wrote:
In the unlikely event I play 4e again (not because it's bad, just because I'm being realistic about the prospect) I'm going to get rid of the disembark on a penetrating hit rule. I think that mostly solves the problems with transports in 4e. Being entangled after a destroyed result is mostly fine I reckon.

5e just swung it too far the other way, getting rid of all the negative rules AND dropping the price of transports across the board.


This mirror is my thoughts as well. When I play 4th edition, we do take out the entanglement rules. Solves a lot of problems. I also feel that transports need to be based around 50 point rhino. If it's better than a rhino it should cost more than 50 points. If it's not better than a rhino it can be a little cheaper. However having said that transport should probably be in the range of 35 to 70 points. Any more than that and they almost get too expensive to use or worse have so much war gear on them that they become main battle tanks.

Yeah, the entanglement rules and auto-disembarks really cripple anything that can't force glances, and a lot of them just across the board needed a price cut.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
I don't know where this "kill every time you got a hit" thing came in 4th.

In 4th, a Lascannon hitting a Chimera had a roughly 28% chance of destroying a Chimera with a single hit; in 5th it dropped to 17% (11% survivability increase in 5th).

Vs a Leman Russ:
11% to be killed by a Lascannon hit in 4th
6% to be killed by a Lascannon hit in 5th
(5% survivability increase)

This illustrates that in 4th, the ARMOR of a vehicle was more important to its survival than the DAMAGE MODEL, while in 5th, the DAMAGE MODEL tended to even out most vehicles (lighter armored vehicles got stronger relative to more heavily armored vehicles).

The effect of this can be seen in 5th easily, where transports dominated but main battle tanks really didn't.

4th is better IMHO precisely because "do I choose a Leman Russ or a Chimera full of Veterans" isn't automatically won by the mechanized infantry every single time.
I'd submit that both vehicles being functionally terrible isn't a great proof that the edition worked better.

Both vehicles were were competitively poor and saw practically no use in typical 4E Guard tournament lists, particularly anything that placed (though few guard lists did in that edition), especially as AC's were banned from tournament play through most of the lifespan of the edition. On top of the vehicle damage table issues, the Russ tanks could only choose to shoot their turret weapon, or their other guns, not both, and the main guns just weren't that effective against anything but clumped up infantry in the open. They were garbage anti-tank or anti-monster, one S8 shot with 2d6 pick-highest pen *if* the center hole of the blast remained over the hull of the target and suffered movement penalties, was not great next to S10 AP1 BS4 Railguns or Prism Cannons, the tradeoff for AP3 instead of AP4 on the large blast option just was not worth it. You could go for S10 with a Demolisher making it far more functional at AT, at a massively reduced range and some increased cost. Unless you caught a Space Marine squad clumped up in the open with a juice Hit on the scatter dice, a Russ tank almost never earned its investment back bar excessively rare rolls.

Neither vehicle really *functioned*, the Chimera was crippled by the Transport rules and its excessive cost, while the Russ tank was crippled by the Ordnance rules and paying out the nose for AP3, particularly next to most contemporaries. These genuinely were two of the most underperforming units in the entire edition.

If you were to pick any edition of 40k, I literally can't think of one that would be worse for these two units specifically than 4th if you wanted to run them competitively in my experience.

with 5E, the big reason to take the Mechvets over the Russ was because the Russ couldn't score, and still wasn't particularly good AT, but other than that they're not exactly exclusionary options, taking lots of both is on the table.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/12/11 20:22:38


IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.

New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights!
The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.  
   
Made in pt
[DCM]
Secret Inquisitorial Eldar Xenexecutor






your mind

 Mezmorki wrote:
Spoiler:
 Insectum7 wrote:
Rihgu wrote:
Just get Tabletop Simulator, y'all
Weren't there some issues with that? I haven't kept up.


There was some internet bru-ha-ha about the company managing TTS not properly paying royalties to another company that was selling Premium mods on the platform. Who the heck knows.

TTS is pretty awesome for 40K though.

I need to get my ProHammer / classic 40K table mod cleaned up and properly added to the workshop. I remade a lot of old tokens based on 2nd edition style (overwatch, broken, etc) to use with ProHammer. Also a whole custom terrain layout thing. Makes playing games pretty easy.

I hope to be in a place where I can avail myself of your hard work! Haven’t used TTS but wish that I could…

   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Tampa,FL USA

 Alpharius wrote:
OK, so far we've got:

San Francisco
Tampa
Boston

We pretty much picked the 3 places farthest away from each other!


We've tri-pointed the entire country.

You know you're really doing something when you can make strangers hate you over the Internet. - Mauleed
Just remember folks. Panic. Panic all the time. It's the only way to survive, other than just being mindful, of course-but geez, that's so friggin' boring. - Aegis Grimm
Hallowed is the All Pie
The Before Times: A Place That Celebrates The World That Was 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
[Jǫtunn]






.

What are the potentially game breaking implications of basing miniatures for games of 2nd Edition but using the 'modern' conventions, such as Space Marines on 32mm, Terminators on 40mm, etc.

As you all know, GW minis are expensive and I am a horribly slow hobbyist!

   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran






Probably nothing.

Want a better 40K?
Check out ProHammer: Classic - An Awesomely Unified Ruleset for 3rd - 7th Edition 40K... for retro 40k feels!
 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar






^Agreed, probably nothing. Certainly nothing "game breaking". You can fit more Marines in a building. . . Gasp! I think the biggest effects will be felt in CC when checking if models are within striking distance.

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

I mean big bases will play a small role in close combat, but it's not as if you've suddenly gone from Marines on 28mm bases to 100mm bases. It's not that much of a difference between their original bases and 32s.

 Alpharius wrote:
OK, so far we've got:

San Francisco
Tampa
Boston
Australia!

Wait... that doesn't help you either.

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in us
Mad Gyrocopter Pilot





washington state USA

Well i have a friend i play games with online who lives in Perth, does that count for you H.B.M.C.?



GAMES-DUST1947/infinity/B5 wars/epic 40K/5th ed 40K/victory at sea/warmachine/battle tactics/monpoc/battletech/battlefleet gothic/castles in the sky,/heavy gear 
   
Made in nz
Infiltrating Broodlord





R'lyeh

Could any kind soul point me towards where I might still be able to find the 4th Edition ArmyBuilder files?

RevlidRas wrote:
The current state of Necrons is all a random lark by the Deceiver, who reprogrammed all the Lords to believe they beat the C'tan aeons ago, replaced their personality engrams with those of unused villains from Brendan Fraser's The Mummy series, coated everything in cheap bling, and even managed to convince them that they actually use clearly satirical units like the Tomb Blades.
 
   
 
Forum Index » 40K General Discussion
Go to: