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RiTides wrote: Good news on the personal front - I tested negative! Finally can stop worrying about who we might have infected, and at least go to the grocery store again . Stay safe and healthy everybody
Future War Cultist wrote: Well, quitting my job. Tried to help but not only have I been screwed over for 7 days in a row now, with my dumb ass coworkers constantly coming to within 2 feet of me, but they also failed to pay me. So, I’m out. I’m done. Going into isolation with all the rest of you.
That sucks FWC, hope you get your money soon and find something better! For now, enjoy hiding inside with us, I guess!
Thanks ATCM.
Turns out that threatening to walk gets results. They paired me back up with my old crew, so now we’re back on track. No idea why they didn’t just do that to begin with but they have a habit of being difficult just to assert their authority, which always backfires on them. As for the money, just an oversight because they’re short staffed. I’ll give them until Tuesday to sort it out.
More virus related; my dad’s friend’s dad isn’t doing so good. Last I heard he’s down to one lung and he’s on kidney dialysis too. But he’s still alive so, we can only hope.
My Chief of Staff ensured that the CO knew that he had an open line to me to use at any time.
It seems that it wasn't that open a line if he was canned for using it. Circumventing the CoC is a serious issue, but if he was being encouraged to do so by SECNAV and his Chief of Staff then its not entirely fair to say that he acted in the wrong. I've heard different versions of the same story as to what exactly went down (some which paint Crozier as a hero who is being railroaded for creating bad press for Navy leadership, and others which paint him as an inept grandstander trying to score some of those "political points" that everyone keeps talking about), one of which was that the memorandum (as opposed to the "letter" it is being portrayed as) was sent to the rear admiral aboard with SECNAV, USPACFLT leadership, and others who Crozier had been in contact with regarding the situation cc'd via email (which is not out of the ordinary). Someone leaked the memo to the press (I've heard some have accused Crozier of being the leaker but I've found nothing that supports the assertion) as it went out in an unsecured manner and got forwarded by some of the recipients. I've also heard whisperings from people that claim to be "in the know" (unverified) that the letter was written in part because the chain of command, Rear Admiral Baker included, were being non-responsive to the COs requests and not taking seriously the severity of the situation he was trying to communicate to them, and that Crozier was aware that this would potentially be a career ender for him when he sent it. Curious to learn more as time goes on.
Just to be clear I have no problem with him jumping the CoC (and when you do it, I'm even ok with CC'ing the people you'e skipping). But there are not close to 20+ individuals in that chain, when combined with the quotables we've heard from the memo it seems it was written with the press in mind so all those people could have been an attempt to hide the leaker. One thing the Navy is renowned for is relieving ship commanders much quicker than any other US service would relieve one of their commanders. I think he's nether a hero or inept but not being inept isn't good enough to be a carrier commander.
The part about unsecure isnt just because it results in leaks to the press, its because discussing specific shortfalls of operational warfighting capability should never, ever be sent unsecure.
Yup, let's blame them dirty foreigners, never mind Germany has actually more cases than all Slavic countries combined, and in any case, a worker on rural farm is not going to infect anyone, and you can even make an argument he/she will be bigger threat to their own country upon returning than to Germany on arrival.
Man look at my flag. Slavs are not other to me My point was that lockdowns are arbitrarily waived when they endanger profit.
The old meta is dead and the new meta struggles to be born. Now is the time of munchkins.
Turns out that threatening to walk gets results. They paired me back up with my old crew, so now we’re back on track. No idea why they didn’t just do that to begin with but they have a habit of being difficult just to assert their authority, which always backfires on them. As for the money, just an oversight because they’re short staffed. I’ll give them until Tuesday to sort it out.
Glad it's worked out somewhat and you're not out of a job over it. Hopefully the oversight gets fixed!
More virus related; my dad’s friend’s dad isn’t doing so good. Last I heard he’s down to one lung and he’s on kidney dialysis too. But he’s still alive so, we can only hope.
Oh no. Is he going on/been put on the transplant list or is there a possibility of his kidney function improving after the virus is dealt with? You ever need to talk about this stuff (or even your friend) then shoot me a PM, I've dealt with kidney issues all the way through to transplantation so I'd be happy to help with answering any questions as best I can (though I managed to avoid dialysis, so only have more general knowledge on that).
Yup, let's blame them dirty foreigners, never mind Germany has actually more cases than all Slavic countries combined, and in any case, a worker on rural farm is not going to infect anyone, and you can even make an argument he/she will be bigger threat to their own country upon returning than to Germany on arrival.
Man look at my flag. Slavs are not other to me My point was that lockdowns are arbitrarily waived when they endanger profit.
Except food is an essential. It needs picking. The pickers have to come from somewhere and if there isn't any medical reason to go with Germans over other groups then why do that?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/04/03 16:48:36
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
queen_annes_revenge wrote: British health Secretary confirms that 'you can drive somewhere remote to walk/exercise' yesterday on question time. Bout time someone cleared that up with a little good sense.
Seems foolish , too many people unable to drive sensibly on quiet roads , been an uptick in bad crashes round our way. Fly tipping has also become more popular now you can easily drive somewhere with no one about , both jobs our services shouldn’t be having to deal with at this time
Doesn't matter. Prosecute the crimes of speeding and fly tipping, don't infringe on law abiding citizens liberties (unnecessarily)
I see this as the reason the police have struggled to interpret what the Govt is actually directing. I have to say I was surprised at his turnabout on the subject, but all that does is make it harder for the police to do any job with any credibility.
Essentially he's asking them to restrict people's movements, but then changing the parameters so that they get blamed for being over zealous or not applying "common sense".
At times like this, good leadership requires clear direction and unfortunately we don't seem to be getting that.
A temporary restriction on normal liberties is perfectly acceptable in order to rationalise and prioritise limited resources. As military personnel, we're used to it anyway. I fail to understand people who are railing against such minor, temporary inconveniences.
If someone in the UK is only now noticing and complaining, they're too late to the party. For example, the UK already has almost total cctv surveillance and the Govt exercises a level of control over the popular narrative via a compliant media that would make Orwell evaporate in horror.
No it doesn't. Break up groups of people gathering. Escort suspected infected to quarantine or testing. That's it. They don't need to be questioning law abiding citizens, stopping cars or shaming people with drones, or setting up forums so curtain twitchers can snitch on their neighbours for leaving the house more than once per day. A restriction on liberties, yes, but the minimum necessary should be applied. You don't just sledgehammer everyone with it because you can.
Every crash puts more people in hospital , every police call out for stuff like this takes them away from actual important tasks . Ideally people should be able to do head out and about , but seeing as the “people” keep managing to prove over and over again that they are morons , at this time it’s a bad idea
In virus related news, a Japanese girl friend of my daughter at university flew back to Tokyo today. The flght was practically empty. In the video she sent, there was one other PAX visible in the economy cabin.
Idk why they didn't upgrade them. The cost of giving a few economy pax a free flight in business or even 1st is tiny compared to the cost of flying an Airbus and crew all the way around the world.
This one time I flew to Japan for New Year's Day. It was when my wife worked for Virgin, and she was rostered to fly on New Year's Eve.
There's a long standing tradition that if your spouse has to fly at Christmas or New Year, you get a free flight with them if you want it.
So feth yeah! That's a story I can tell for years. The plane was almost empty, and there were four husbands of Japanese crew. They put us all in first and we were the only people there.
Sorry for the tangent.
Anyway, this Japanese girl arrived and in Immigration she got swabbed for Covid-19 infection. Then they wanted to take a blood sample to do the anti-body test, but she had drunk three bottles of umeshu plum brandy and was too drunk, so they made her wait.
queen_annes_revenge wrote: British health Secretary confirms that 'you can drive somewhere remote to walk/exercise' yesterday on question time. Bout time someone cleared that up with a little good sense.
Seems foolish , too many people unable to drive sensibly on quiet roads , been an uptick in bad crashes round our way. Fly tipping has also become more popular now you can easily drive somewhere with no one about , both jobs our services shouldn’t be having to deal with at this time
Doesn't matter. Prosecute the crimes of speeding and fly tipping, don't infringe on law abiding citizens liberties (unnecessarily)
I see this as the reason the police have struggled to interpret what the Govt is actually directing. I have to say I was surprised at his turnabout on the subject, but all that does is make it harder for the police to do any job with any credibility.
Essentially he's asking them to restrict people's movements, but then changing the parameters so that they get blamed for being over zealous or not applying "common sense".
At times like this, good leadership requires clear direction and unfortunately we don't seem to be getting that.
A temporary restriction on normal liberties is perfectly acceptable in order to rationalise and prioritise limited resources. As military personnel, we're used to it anyway. I fail to understand people who are railing against such minor, temporary inconveniences.
If someone in the UK is only now noticing and complaining, they're too late to the party. For example, the UK already has almost total cctv surveillance and the Govt exercises a level of control over the popular narrative via a compliant media that would make Orwell evaporate in horror.
No it doesn't. Break up groups of people gathering. Escort suspected infected to quarantine or testing. That's it. They don't need to be questioning law abiding citizens, stopping cars or shaming people with drones, or setting up forums so curtain twitchers can snitch on their neighbours for leaving the house more than once per day. A restriction on liberties, yes, but the minimum necessary should be applied. You don't just sledgehammer everyone with it because you can.
Every crash puts more people in hospital , every police call out for stuff like this takes them away from actual important tasks . Ideally people should be able to do head out and about , but seeing as the “people” keep managing to prove over and over again that they are morons , at this time it’s a bad idea
youre not wrong, but just because some people are stupid, doesn't mean you create laws against them, otherwise drinking would be banned, amongst a whole host of other things. I keep saying over and over, that the police interrogating law abiding members of the public under fear of these new laws, is not helpful, its harassment. but all I seem to get is..'well just follow the rules' as if that makes everything ok.
First I've really heard out of Africa or Latin America with regards to the coronavirus impact. If anything this should tell us that warm weather might make this situation moderately better than it is now (after accounting for the disparities between the US and Ecuadorian healthcare systems, etc.), but its not going to put it to an end and the virus will keep right on virusing.
CoALabaer wrote: Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
youre not wrong, but just because some people are stupid, doesn't mean you create laws against them, otherwise drinking would be banned, amongst a whole host of other things. I keep saying over and over, that the police interrogating law abiding members of the public under fear of these new laws, is not helpful, its harassment. but all I seem to get is..'well just follow the rules' as if that makes everything ok.
Of course you create laws because people are stupid! It's simply those of us that aren't morons seldom need to concern ourselves about them.
There's no law against drinking, but there's a raft of laws against things you shouldn't do when you have been, and people break them everyday, despite it being self evident that most of those behaviours are inherently potentially self destructive or could halrm others.
Does the fact you get told the same thing when you repeat yourself over and over not suggest something to you?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/04/03 18:42:36
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
Only that the vast majority of the public have been whipped into such a fear frenzy that they will just blindly accept unnecessary, overly draconian laws with no scrutiny in order to gain some twisted illusion of safety.
and thats exactly whats happening here those of use that dont need the laws are being affected by them, in negative ways.
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
Some economists tried doing a benefit-cost analysis of this social distancing. Their analysis supported it, provided that the downturn isn't too steep and the recovery isn't too long.
gorgon wrote: Some economists tried doing a benefit-cost analysis of this social distancing. Their analysis supported it, provided that the downturn isn't too steep and the recovery isn't too long.
Too be expected, dead are permanent losses, momentarily not working is momentarily.
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
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queen_annes_revenge wrote: Only that the vast majority of the public have been whipped into such a fear frenzy that they will just blindly accept unnecessary, overly draconian laws with no scrutiny in order to gain some twisted illusion of safety.
and thats exactly whats happening here those of use that dont need the laws are being affected by them, in negative ways.
You did catch the article that the police have already been told to reduce some of their more creative methods of enforcement?
Also yes we do need laws and police to keep people at home; heck even during WWII we required ARP Wardens and the police/forces to keep people from showing lights at night and that was when you could hear and see the threat of bombers approaching and had alarms blaring in the air.
This is a disease which is basically invisible and where "The enemy" really is everyone else around you. It's so casually caught and spread that yes we do need short term draconian measures brought in to help reinforce the policies we've adopted as a nation in order to help curb the rate of infection for a prolonged period of time.
It's not as if we are going to maintain these measures forever. These are short term measures designed to help the country through an exceptional situation that is far outside of normal operations. Within 3 or 4 years chances are we'll have a vaccine and Corona Virus will just vanish into the background of other illness that harms a significant number of people, but not vast swathes of the population. Meanwhile before that point many of the isolation and group break-up laws will be relaxed/removed. Nations simply cannot function in their current state forever.
youre not wrong, but just because some people are stupid, doesn't mean you create laws against them, otherwise drinking would be banned, amongst a whole host of other things. I keep saying over and over, that the police interrogating law abiding members of the public under fear of these new laws, is not helpful, its harassment. but all I seem to get is..'well just follow the rules' as if that makes everything ok.
Maybe that's because most people acknowledge this is a serious problem with no easy solution that requires some drastic measures to mitigate the worst of the damage. You keep beating this drum and it honestly just sounds petty. It's a god damn global pandemic, these measures aren't in place forever and they're clearly necessary because people aren't getting it.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/04/03 20:03:44
gorgon wrote: Some economists tried doing a benefit-cost analysis of this social distancing. Their analysis supported it, provided that the downturn isn't too steep and the recovery isn't too long.
Pretty much in line with what most people that could think farther ahead than the next 5 minutes or tomorrows opening/closing numbers on their stock index of choice already knew.
There is one thing I wanted to point out though:
"To account for the possibility of overwhelming the U.S. health care system, we make a
critical assumption that the system has sufficient resources to provide adequate treatment for about
one half of the maximum number of individuals who would be infected at any one time in an
uncontrolled scenario, with no social distancing to slow down the virus."
This is being generous, as numbers I've seen elsewhere indicate that in an uncontrolled scenario the US medical system would have the capacity to treat only a fraction of the peak number of infections, and if/when those infections peaked the healthcare system would basically become non-responsive to post-peak infections for a period of several weeks to months afterwards as a result of the system being overloaded, effectively paralyzed, and essentially breaking down entirely until operations could be restored and normalized in some way (which itself would be subject to a ramp-up period). From the studies I could find, the one-half max figure would be accurate only if we curve-flattened the outbreak to a 6 month period, which would imply the existence of controls in place. If uncontrolled, the estimates I've looked at show that the peak would outstrip the availability of hospital beds (let alone ICU/ventilator capacity) by 6-8 times - post peak I can't begin to estimate what the damage would be, because I dont think anyone on the planet has any data to support what that might look like.
TL;DR - the cost of doing nothing is probably much higher than even this study suggests, there probably is not a lot of room for argument that we would be better off reopening the economy as some have suggested.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/04/03 20:11:32
CoALabaer wrote: Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
OK, clearly you're incapable of an actual conversation with substance, so I'm going to pass on continuing. I fail to see why you engaged with me in the first place.
youre not wrong, but just because some people are stupid, doesn't mean you create laws against them, otherwise drinking would be banned, amongst a whole host of other things. I keep saying over and over, that the police interrogating law abiding members of the public under fear of these new laws, is not helpful, its harassment. but all I seem to get is..'well just follow the rules' as if that makes everything ok.
Maybe that's because most people acknowledge this is a serious problem with no easy solution that requires some drastic measures to mitigate the worst of the damage. You keep beating this drum and it honestly just sounds petty. It's a god damn global pandemic, these measures aren't in place forever and they're clearly necessary because people aren't getting it.
Ad hominem isn't a valid argument. There are drastic measures, and theres pointless, unnecessary persecution of innocent citizens. Try again.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/04/03 20:17:19
OK, clearly you're incapable of an actual conversation with substance, so I'm going to pass on continuing. I fail to see why you engaged with me in the first place.
With hindsight I wouldn't, I had no idea I'd made the mistake of assuming you understood the situation. As it stands you'd clearly be the guy in WW2 with his Christmas lights up and a giant illuminated Santa on the roof because you knew better than those pesky ARPs who were trying to opress your rights, and clearly those blackout rules applied to the stupid, and not you because you know better.
Your ignorance in this matter is as breathtaking as it is depressing, and I'll reserve substantial discourse for those who warrant it.
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
No strawmen here, unless you can convince me your issue with police stopping people and your issue with not being able to drive about to go elsewhere to exercise are in no way related.
Good luck.
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
In other news, my supermarket had toilet roll today for the first time in 3 weeks. I seemingly arrived at the right time as I walked straight in, but there was a massive queue outside when I finished. I can't really understand how it worked, as there wasn't anyone counting the numbers going in.
queen_annes_revenge wrote: In other news, my supermarket had toilet roll today for the first time in 3 weeks. I seemingly arrived at the right time as I walked straight in, but there was a massive queue outside when I finished. I can't really understand how it worked, as there wasn't anyone counting the numbers going in.
Similarly I headed out to Aldi for the first time in about 4 weeks, and was impressed by the stoic, well spaced and patient queue outside only to be met by every aisle inside filled with staff trying to fill the shelves with all their stock in the middle of the aisle, thus forcing everyone into close contact anyway.
The only time I've been touched by another human being in the last 4 weeks, thanks to living in the mess away from home, was when a bloke tripped and fell backwards into me in the bread aisle.
Immediate decontamination drills ensued.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/04/03 21:47:36
"All their ferocity was turned outwards, against enemies of the State, foreigners, traitors, saboteurs, thought-criminals" - Orwell, 1984
Turns out that threatening to walk gets results. They paired me back up with my old crew, so now we’re back on track. No idea why they didn’t just do that to begin with but they have a habit of being difficult just to assert their authority, which always backfires on them. As for the money, just an oversight because they’re short staffed. I’ll give them until Tuesday to sort it out.
Glad it's worked out somewhat and you're not out of a job over it. Hopefully the oversight gets fixed!
More virus related; my dad’s friend’s dad isn’t doing so good. Last I heard he’s down to one lung and he’s on kidney dialysis too. But he’s still alive so, we can only hope.
Oh no. Is he going on/been put on the transplant list or is there a possibility of his kidney function improving after the virus is dealt with? You ever need to talk about this stuff (or even your friend) then shoot me a PM, I've dealt with kidney issues all the way through to transplantation so I'd be happy to help with answering any questions as best I can (though I managed to avoid dialysis, so only have more general knowledge on that).
Yup, let's blame them dirty foreigners, never mind Germany has actually more cases than all Slavic countries combined, and in any case, a worker on rural farm is not going to infect anyone, and you can even make an argument he/she will be bigger threat to their own country upon returning than to Germany on arrival.
Man look at my flag. Slavs are not other to me My point was that lockdowns are arbitrarily waived when they endanger profit.
Except food is an essential. It needs picking. The pickers have to come from somewhere and if there isn't any medical reason to go with Germans over other groups then why do that?
When people were storming the bottled water skids and buying two or three cases of water EACH when I last went to Costco (before the stay at home orders), all I wanted to do was scream at them, "What the hell do you think is going to happen? This is a disease.... they're not turning off the faucets in your house, you moronic idiots!"
Jesus Christ, at least in the city if the power goes out, the city water just keeps on flowing. Here in rural America we have a hand pump attached to our well that we can switch over to if the power goes out.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/04/03 22:24:15
"By this point I'm convinced 100% that every single race in the 40k universe have somehow tapped into the ork ability to just have their tech work because they think it should."
God damn. America, what the hell are you playing at? I've largely paid attention to what's been going on at home; with half an eye on Italy and South Africa. Then I turn around a week or so later, and New York alone is only 500 odd deaths behind the entire UK!!! And 250,000 cases?!
Is this the price of not having centralised healthcare? Or is it the orange chimp? Serious question, I've no idea why things are looking so bad over there as compared to elsewhere. From where I'm sitting, it looks like your society has just more or less decided that the poor and vulnerable might as well shuffle off and die (unless they've got money). What the hell is the American Government thinking:?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/04/03 22:30:47
Ketara wrote: God damn. America, what the hell are you playing at? I've largely paid attention to what's been going on at home; with half an eye on Italy and South Africa. Then I turn around a week or so later, and New York alone is only 500 odd deaths behind the entire UK!!! And 250,000 cases?!
Is this the price of not having centralised healthcare? Or is it the orange chimp? Serious question, I've no idea why things are looking so bad over there as compared to elsewhere. From where I'm sitting, it looks like your society has just more or less decided that the poor and vulnerable might as well shuffle off and die (unless they've got money). What the hell is the American Government thinking:?
I think a big part of it is American people not taking it seriously. I work at a Walmart, and I see way too many people in there all the time despite the fact that my hometown is 10 days into a stay-at-home order.
The reason for that may be that the government has become the boy who cried "Wolf!" when it comes to infectious diseases. They played up the danger of West Nile Virus, H1N1, Bird Flu, etc. and none of those really blew up the way COVID-19 has. And now, here comes another disease, the government starts warning people, and despite the fact that this one really is seriously bad nobody pays attention.
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Ketara wrote: God damn. America, what the hell are you playing at? I've largely paid attention to what's been going on at home; with half an eye on Italy and South Africa. Then I turn around a week or so later, and New York alone is only 500 odd deaths behind the entire UK!!! And 250,000 cases?!
Is this the price of not having centralised healthcare? Or is it the orange chimp? Serious question, I've no idea why things are looking so bad over there as compared to elsewhere. From where I'm sitting, it looks like your society has just more or less decided that the poor and vulnerable might as well shuffle off and die (unless they've got money). What the hell is the American Government thinking:?
Have some perspective. Namely that the U.K is a tiny country compared to the US. New York in particular is an extremely dense population center. 8 million out of the 19.5 million people in the entire state live in that single city. That would be comparable to 30 million of the UKs residents living in one location. The pop density of NYC is double that of London. Diseases spread in dense population areas like crazy, and how you pay for your healthcare doesn't affect that.
Healthcare type is not a factor. Given that Italy Spain and China are socialized healthcare and being ravaged doesn’t give any bonus points to their system. Italy is leaving bodies in people’s homes and not even collecting them. Nobody with Covid in the US is dying at home and being left to rot.
Across the board, this disease poses a lot of unique challenges that NO healthcare system is equipped to handle. Socialized or private or otherwise.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/04/03 23:01:32
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Ketara wrote: God damn. America, what the hell are you playing at? I've largely paid attention to what's been going on at home; with half an eye on Italy and South Africa. Then I turn around a week or so later, and New York alone is only 500 odd deaths behind the entire UK!!! And 250,000 cases?!
Is this the price of not having centralised healthcare? Or is it the orange chimp? Serious question, I've no idea why things are looking so bad over there as compared to elsewhere. From where I'm sitting, it looks like your society has just more or less decided that the poor and vulnerable might as well shuffle off and die (unless they've got money). What the hell is the American Government thinking:?
Have some perspective. Namely that the U.K is a tiny country compared to the US. New York in particular is an extremely dense population center. 8 million out of the 19.5 million people in the entire state live in that single city. That would be comparable to 30 million of the UKs residents living in one location. The pop density of NYC is double that of London. Diseases spread in dense population areas like crazy, and how you pay for your healthcare doesn't affect that.
Healthcare type is not a factor. Given that Italy Spain and China are socialized healthcare and being ravaged doesn’t give any bonus points to their system. Italy is leaving bodies in people’s homes and not even collecting them. Nobody with Covid in the US is dying at home and being left to rot.
Across the board, this disease poses a lot of unique challenges that NO healthcare system is equipped to handle. Socialized or private or otherwise.
Mate, whatever gets you through this.
I saw a vid the other day with an American militia made up almost entirely of bearded white men, virtually salivating at the idea that they were the only thing that were standing up for sanity against the virus and the Govt.
You guys have a very weird worldview, and I say that as a Brit and a fan. Lord knows we have a fethed up view of ourselves, Europe and the rest of the world but you guys really go the extra mile.
"All their ferocity was turned outwards, against enemies of the State, foreigners, traitors, saboteurs, thought-criminals" - Orwell, 1984
Ketara wrote: God damn. America, what the hell are you playing at? I've largely paid attention to what's been going on at home; with half an eye on Italy and South Africa. Then I turn around a week or so later, and New York alone is only 500 odd deaths behind the entire UK!!! And 250,000 cases?!
Is this the price of not having centralised healthcare? Or is it the orange chimp? Serious question, I've no idea why things are looking so bad over there as compared to elsewhere. From where I'm sitting, it looks like your society has just more or less decided that the poor and vulnerable might as well shuffle off and die (unless they've got money). What the hell is the American Government thinking:?
Have some perspective. Namely that the U.K is a tiny country compared to the US. New York in particular is an extremely dense population center. 8 million out of the 19.5 million people in the entire state live in that single city. That would be comparable to 30 million of the UKs residents living in one location. The pop density of NYC is double that of London.
Errr......this would be more convincing if 'perspective' didn't make it look five times worse. Hence my original astonishment.
London has about the same population grouped in one city (about half a million more actually, but who's counting), and a far, far less serious outbreak. London's got 9,291 cases. New York has...102,863 cases. Timescales for the first infections are roughly comparable. Deaths right now are standing at right now at 3605 for the entire United Kingdom as opposed to 2,935 for New York alone. From what I'm reading as well, NYC hospitals are absolutely overflowing and underequipped compared to what we've got over here. NYC is down to less than a weeks worth of ICU supplies at the current trend of increasing cases (it's likely to grow higher still), whilst London (coming somewhat under strain to this point) is actually finally bringing more capacity online and infection rates have flattened out over the last four/five days.
The population density difference only accounts for so much guv. You've got vastly more cases, less room to increase capacity and supply, a completely out of control infection rate which is going to jack it higher still...I mean, Jesus. Things are troubling here, but the more I read into NYC, the more I realise how well we're doing in comparison!
I mean, I'm reading stuff about different states bidding for medical supplies! Where's the command economy? The central planning?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/04/03 23:18:24
. Stay safe and healthy everybody 
Heresy World Eaters/Emperors Children 
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