Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

This was brought up on the Tau Online forums, and it set me thinking. Are the Chaos Gods really evil, or is this a misconception based on their followers? As they are created by cumulating emotions, maybe this could change them? Maybe Khorne was/is a god of honour and martial prowess rather than a maniac who wants to kill anyone. Maybe Slaanesh is a god of love and passion rather than decadence and depravity. I see this as being a strong probability of what the gods really are.

Go on, flame away.

Certainly interesting, but not an option for me personally.

Khorne is a maniac to be frank, otherwise, why would he/ the chaos gift his zerkers with all kings of deamonic gubbins if he did not enjoy what he was seeing. Hacking people apart for the joy of it as nothing to do with honour . . .

And what would Nurgle represent? The god of disease. I dont see any good coming from that direction either.

Slaanesh, yeah maybe, love, maybe some passion. Wait, arising to deamonhood through pleasure?! Noice.

I guess it depends on your standpoint. I for one do think the chaos gods are a bunch of crazed weirdos. Which makes them that much more likeable.

Nurgle, as was stated in the 3rd edition CSM 'dex, is ultimately the god of rebirth. His plagues devastate worlds, but not to the point of annihilation. If it's dead, it's dead, but people can recover from disease. Like I said, the gods, being born from emotions, may be influenced by them. What if there's a whole 'fallen angel' thing going on with them and the daemons?
And Tzeench never seemed evil to me, just an endless schemer. Like a god of what to do when you're bored.

You have two viewpoints:
1. The ruinous powers also encompass these other emotions. Tzeentch is hope for example. Old RT guys will cite a more balanced view, with sorceror’s who’s footsteps magically generate flowers for example. If Khorne is the maniac, he’s also the father protecting his family from an intruder, for example.

2. An alternative is that there are other powers in the warp. The Imperium is dealing with the impact of the four ruinous powers because they have it in for humanity to an extent and are well, chaotic. However there may be other powers more representative of this. This is referenced by Malal specifically, and fluff about lesser powers. Plus we have the eldar warp beings and the true masters of the warp-Gork and Mork (seriously no one screws with the GM boyz in the ethereal plane). Indeed the Demon codex notes the captive eldar goddess of nature. There’s no reason there would not be one generated from human emotion as well.

Either works. I like the concept of “Lords of Law” also warring in warpspace vs. the Ruinous Powers, and can explain why Chaos gets support and then doesn’t (the ruinous powers are fighting on two fronts as it were). But that’s all personal fluff and a great way to theme/convert a force.

OTT but that is most godawful avatar. Its perfect for Dakka…

Well Khorne and Khain are actully the same guy, he had 2 sides to a god. Khaine was the good side Khorne was the bad one. But they all come from emotions, are emotions evil?

The Chaos Gods aren't evil. my definition of evil is as follows: "To be truely evil you must acknowledge the right thing to do in a situation, and then do copletely the oposite"

the Chaos Gods are just driven by the thoughts of others in retrospect. Therefore can't know right from wrong, they just do what they were made for-the embodyment of emotions. Other races made them and they just do what they do accordingly.
they aren't good or evil, meerly being that have always acted the way they do, for they have no other way to act

I think the chaos gods are much more interesting when they have negative and positive aspects. So I vote for the RT era chaos gods.

This is something I've been thinking about for a long time actually. I think the Chaos Gods are all good guys. Some Space Marines heard their calls though, but those calls weren't evil. They were "The emperor, the man you worship, is a fraud. He is disabled/dead and being used as a puppet by the empire". The Marines that heeded this, in the eyes of other Space Marines, are heretics and villains. But in their eyes they are reformers. The Chaos Gods are demonized, to make them seem unappealing. The weird thing is is that GW will not embrace this view. The Chaos Space Marines are not the bad guys in their own eyes (or mine either for that matter). The descriptions of all the units and the Chaos Gods in Codex: Chaos Space Marines is what I imagine every person in the empire is told about them. In their own eyes they have simply shrugged off useless and oppressive military practices and worship or a false god/dead god emperor, asked for the glorious gifts of their gods to help them in combat against those who are not as enlightened as they.

Well a famous IG said this.
"You know guys. Chaos isn't so bad"
Kinda expalins it all.

Chaos is selfishness pure.That's evil.
Horus has fought for a lie.
To act without restrictions is not freedom,its Terror.
CSM exchanged duty and service with Hatred and greed.
Nothing positive in it to me.

Space_hoppo wrote:Well a famous IG said this.
"You know guys. Chaos isn't so bad"
Kinda expalins it all.

And you trust an Imperial Monkey? Remember many 'famous' Imperial chaps say stuff all the time, like the Emp is a God, doesn't mean it's so.

I would trust an Imperial Monkey with my life! With that macho las gun you have to believe anything they say.

Lasguns Macho? Under enthused snotlings armed with Daffodils are more Macho!

Now let me pose the question, if Chaos were good why havent they and either the Tau or Eldar created some form of alliance yet? In order to kill those who are evil

because they are not good either they are neutral.

Honestly, can anyone really be Neutral in the 40K universe, GW wouldn't let them. people like playing either good or evil, not the neutral bystanders

Well Chaos are slightly evil, but slightly good as well.

1hadhq wrote:Chaos is selfishness pure.That's evil.
Horus has fought for a lie.
To act without restrictions is not freedom,its Terror.
CSM exchanged duty and service with Hatred and greed.
Nothing positive in it to me.

And this is what I'd imagine an imperial citizen to say about Chaos, because he has been brainwashed about the subject through his upbringing.

Chaos isn't selfish. It wants only for all people to have the freedom to be enlightened to what is truly happening behind the scenes.
Horus fought and sacrificed him for what is truly right.
To act without restrictions is freedom.
CSM sacrificed duty and service with honor and humility.

They may be the ones wearing black and more skulls, but their "OMG! DEMS GUYZ IS EVIL!" appearance doesn't make them evil.

So wnating to enslave the galaxy to their eternal whims is good in what way? The last time I checked dictators were bad people who did bad things. Hitler and Mugabe spring to mind. Or do you mean when they take over it'll be free cookies for everyone! yay!

And your saying the Imperium hasnt enslaved the galaxy?

Storm Lord wrote:So wnating to enslave the galaxy to their eternal whims is good in what way? The last time I checked dictators were bad people who did bad things. Hitler and Mugabe spring to mind. Or do you mean when they take over it'll be free cookies for everyone! yay!

[[Image:Cookie]]

When the CSMs win, they will break the bonds of a disabled/dead God King who is being used as a puppet figure head for a few people at the top to get ahead of everyone else. Yeah, there may also be cookies...

But in the process become like that themselves. CSM have human emotions still, and some will wish domination, and some Gods like Khorne or Tzeentch will help them get that, and the cycle starts again

So does the Imperium. Thousands die everyday to feed the emporor, the Inquistitaion is simialr to the Gestapo from Nazi germany. And all palnets have to give up money people and food for the 'Good of the Imperium'

So why bother with the Transfer to Chaos domination, if as you've just helped point out are as evil as the Imperium, nothing changes, therefore chaos is evil.

Storm Lord wrote:So why bother with the Transfer to Chaos domination, if as you've just helped point out are as evil as the Imperium, nothing changes, therefore chaos is evil.

Because it wouldn't be the same. Imagining that the Chaos Gods want to be in power to just slaughter everyone is ridiculous. They would have temples and expect worship just like the emperor but they wouldn't want full and utter devotion like he does. They aren't as 'evil' as the Imperium. Their rule would be a lot better, if not as organized, as the Imperium's.

Typeline wrote:

1hadhq wrote:Chaos is selfishness pure.That's evil.
Horus has fought for a lie.
To act without restrictions is not freedom,its Terror.
CSM exchanged duty and service with Hatred and greed.
Nothing positive in it to me.

And this is what I'd imagine an imperial citizen to say about Chaos, because he has been brainwashed about the subject through his upbringing.

Chaos isn't selfish. It wants only for all people to have the freedom to be enlightened to what is truly happening behind the scenes.

Truth by tzeentch???

Horus fought and sacrificed him for what is truly right.

A man,full of woe about his deeds not remembered???

To act without restrictions is freedom.

be tfg at wh40k is freedom ????

CSM sacrificed duty and service with honor and humility.

The honor to be enslaved,the humility to be tortured???

No false emperor,no brainwash,simple read the whole fluff.

They may be the ones wearing black and more skulls, but their "OMG! DEMS GUYZ IS EVIL!" appearance doesn't make them evil.

I struggle with the idea they wouldn't demand complete/exact worship. I can't imagine them being happy if the Emp was still worshiped for example. Also the Emp doesn't demand worship, he denied it and abolished it whilst he was still alive, someone else gave them that impression.

well they need worship. Mainly because khorne wants rage of having to worship but Tzeench wants hope of not worshipping. So they have to be together to be happy.

Typeline wrote:Chaos is selfishness pure.That's evil.
Horus has fought for a lie.
To act without restrictions is not freedom,its Terror.
CSM exchanged duty and service with Hatred and greed.
Nothing positive in it to me.

And this is what I'd imagine an imperial citizen to say about Chaos, because he has been brainwashed about the subject through his upbringing.

Chaos isn't selfish. It wants only for all people to have the freedom to be enlightened to what is truly happening behind the scenes.

Truth by tzeentch???

Horus fought and sacrificed him for what is truly right.

A man,full of woe about his deeds not remembered???

To act without restrictions is freedom.

be tfg at wh40k is freedom ????

CSM sacrificed duty and service with honor and humility.

The honor to be enslaved,the humility to be tortured???

No false emperor,no brainwash,simple read the whole fluff.

They may be the ones wearing black and more skulls, but their "OMG! DEMS GUYZ IS EVIL!" appearance doesn't make them evil.

Space_hoppo wrote:So does the Imperium. Thousands die everyday to feed the emporor, the Inquistitaion is simialr to the Gestapo from Nazi germany. And all palnets have to give up money people and food for the 'Good of the Imperium'

Compare 40k inq with inq of 16th century to be right,not gestapo!
Taxes are Normal in great imperia.

But taking poor people to be feed to the emporor? does the queen eat human brains for lunch?