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Delta Echo wrote:

yakface wrote:Oh, and the Gauss Flux arc is only S4 AP5.

As a nid player i may be mistaken, but doesn't this significantly change things as the Gauss Flux Arcs effectively become "defensive weapons"...?

It's all moot- from rumors the monolith always counts as stationary for shooting purposes - it may always fire off every weapon. Ordnance rules prevent other weapons from firing - so it's either the arcs or the whip during the shooting phase.

A couple of interesting questions - is the particle whip measured from the ring-pop gem now, or from one of the flux arc guns as in the previous iteration?

As to the 'lith getting auto-hit in combat, i would say based on rumors the answer is no because you're only stationary for shooting purposes - for CC you need to reference actual movement to determine the to-hit number on the dice.

Wow, i always used to measure the Whip from the crystal anyway. Oops.

Ascalam wrote:
Geez. He's a Centaurii wannabe Wonder how he's deal with a Nid incursion..

Sure, he may not deal well with bugs in his quarters, but Londo's willing to vaporize part of the homeworld to remove an infestation of ancient insectile creatures if necessary.

huh, as it always counts a stationary it can shoot with the ordanance and the whips, that should be no issue at all

Valek wrote:huh, as it always counts a stationary it can shoot with the ordanance and the whips, that should be no issue at all

The Ordinance is the Particle Whip.

whatever and im quite sure it will loose ordonance in the new rules, otherwise the monolith will be severly overcosted...

Valek wrote:whatever and im quite sure it will loose ordonance in the new rules, otherwise the monolith will be severly overcosted...

If you've been following this thread, then you should know that the Monolith has gone through a plethora of changes. It has kept the Ordinance on the Particle whip.

I will believe it when i see the actual codex

Not being able to assault out of the Monolith is lame it's like I go ok thats awesome and then no it's not....

Our transports are flimsy and we can't assault out of them and we can't assault out the Monolith and the only unit that can use the Ghost Ark that would be worth assaulting with will likely get FAQed into not being able to use it.

I guess I'm just not a fan of multiple turn maneuvers with the average number of turns in a game.

KarlPedder wrote:Not being able to assault out of the Monolith is lame it's like I go ok thats awesome and then no it's not....

Our transports are flimsy and we can't assault out of them and we can't assault out the Monolith and the only unit that can use the Ghost Ark that would be worth assaulting with will likely get FAQed into not being able to use it.

I guess I'm just not a fan of multiple turn maneuvers with the average number of turns in a game.

Yes that would be lame...if the Necrons were primarily an assault army. The CC specialists in the army hold more of a support or mop-up role I think. I mean, just look at their low I.

Considering how terrible necrons are in close combat, I think their not getting assault transports is an intentional design choice.

Valek wrote:I will believe it when i see the actual codex

I don't know what would cause you to believe some of the things Yak posted, and not others. You are free to make your own judgements though, Of course.

Well necrons are NOT an assault army. Our cc units are assassins and counter-assault units. 3 of which are fast enough to get in range and assault on their own without transport (praetorians, wraiths, and beast scarabs). Why are you complaining about not assaulting after bamfing through a monolith or vodding anywhere on the table. Tactical reinsertion? check. Torrent-of-fire? Check. Rapid-firing s5 ap4 gauss blasters at a unit (as well as shooting a s8 large blast from the monolith that brought you there) then warping to the other monolith or vodding somewhere else out of harm's way? epic. Don't put shooting units directly in the path of thunderhammer wolf riders, etc, let the wraiths tangle with those for awhile.

This is all contingent upon the playtest codex being identical to the released one, which we all know won't be the case. C'tan will be point costed differently, perhaps, maybe a statline change here or there (dreadknight comes to mind. Playtest version was way different than released one).

It's best to stave off any tactics-arguing until we've all seen the new book in living color (or in black and white, to be literal).

tetrisphreak wrote:Well necrons are NOT an assault army. Our cc units are assassins and counter-assault units. 3 of which are fast enough to get in range and assault on their own without transport (praetorians, wraiths, and beast scarabs). Why are you complaining about not assaulting after bamfing through a monolith or vodding anywhere on the table. Tactical reinsertion? check. Torrent-of-fire? Check. Rapid-firing s5 ap4 gauss blasters at a unit (as well as shooting a s8 large blast from the monolith that brought you there) then warping to the other monolith or vodding somewhere else out of harm's way? epic. Don't put shooting units directly in the path of thunderhammer wolf riders, etc, let the wraiths tangle with those for awhile.

This is all contingent upon the playtest codex being identical to the released one, which we all know won't be the case. C'tan will be point costed differently, perhaps, maybe a statline change here or there (dreadknight comes to mind. Playtest version was way different than released one).

It's best to stave off any tactics-arguing until we've all seen the new book in living color (or in black and white, to be literal).

Well, it almost seems like this is more than a Playtest Codex. Yak has mentioned the Artwork several times, which doesn't seem like something they would include in a playtest codex. We'll see of course.

I do agree, that not assaulted out of the Monolith is fair. I think it would be too good if that was the case, considering you could pull anything from reserve, to the front lines instantly to smash into your opponets. I can see 10 Man Immortals coming in, and laying down a torrent of Blaster Rapid fire, or Tesla shots.

tetrisphreak wrote:Well necrons are NOT an assault army. Our cc units are assassins and counter-assault units. 3 of which are fast enough to get in range and assault on their own without transport (praetorians, wraiths, and beast scarabs). Why are you complaining about not assaulting after bamfing through a monolith or vodding anywhere on the table. Tactical reinsertion? check. Torrent-of-fire? Check. Rapid-firing s5 ap4 gauss blasters at a unit (as well as shooting a s8 large blast from the monolith that brought you there) then warping to the other monolith or vodding somewhere else out of harm's way? epic. Don't put shooting units directly in the path of thunderhammer wolf riders, etc, let the wraiths tangle with those for awhile.

This is all contingent upon the playtest codex being identical to the released one, which we all know won't be the case. C'tan will be point costed differently, perhaps, maybe a statline change here or there (dreadknight comes to mind. Playtest version was way different than released one).

It's best to stave off any tactics-arguing until we've all seen the new book in living color (or in black and white, to be literal).

Exactly. I have no idea why people keep whining about this sort of thing. It's pretty self evident that Necrons aren't meant to assault through everything Orky-Style. They are meant to take out weak, small targets (like Spec Weapon squads, heavy weapons...pretty much anything that's not CC orientated), which is why they are generally pretty fast with decent strength and toughness but low I.

I think Necrons will be able to make Viable CC lists, however their CC is going to be something we new to 40k, right now a good CC unit has high initiative, lots of attacks, and a power weapon of some sort.

All of the Cron fighty units seem more like a TH/SS terminators mentality of ok swing first but it better be good because I'm tough as hell and swing back pretty hard.

Zachilles wrote:I think Necrons will be able to make Viable CC lists, however their CC is going to be something we new to 40k, right now a good CC unit has high initiative, lots of attacks, and a power weapon of some sort.

All of the Cron fighty units seem more like a TH/SS terminators mentality of ok swing first but it better be good because I'm tough as hell and swing back pretty hard.

I guess that would be the case...if they had high armor saves and high invul saves. And high S power weapons.

Lychguard get 4++ saves, true, but they are only S5 then, and I don't think it's a PW. They could be S7 with PW, but then they lose their invul. So TH/SS tactic doesn't really work that well for them.

Unless of course they charge something really weak or small, like FW or a Tac Squad.

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Zachilles wrote:I think Necrons will be able to make Viable CC lists, however their CC is going to be something we new to 40k, right now a good CC unit has high initiative, lots of attacks, and a power weapon of some sort.

All of the Cron fighty units seem more like a TH/SS terminators mentality of ok swing first but it better be good because I'm tough as hell and swing back pretty hard.

I guess that would be the case...if they had high armor saves and high invul saves. And high S power weapons.

Lychguard get 4++ saves, true, but they are only S5 then, and I don't think it's a PW. They could be S7 with PW, but then they lose their invul. So TH/SS tactic doesn't really work that well for them.

Unless of course they charge something really weak or small, like FW or a Tac Squad.

The Hyperphase sword is a power weapon. Keep in mind that they have their 4++, then a 5+ to stand back up if they fail it. You can even turn it into a second 4+ with a Rez orb. I don't know the Math Hammer, but I think two 4+ is a tad bit better than a single 3+, but I could be wrong there.

As stated, i am not overly worried about the lack of CC transports as that is not what the Necrons are all about.

With a mix of Night Scythes and Monoliths we have the ability to quickly move unit around the table and set up potentially lether fields of fire.

Dont forget that if a unit of 10 warriors comes out of a monolith they can still fire gaus Flayers (assumgin they stay the same as they are now) 12" twice. Do this with 2 'liths and 1 Scythe (for example) the right way and you could unleash 60 S4 hits on a single uit with next to no warning at all. CC your way out of that!

Sasori wrote:

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Zachilles wrote:I think Necrons will be able to make Viable CC lists, however their CC is going to be something we new to 40k, right now a good CC unit has high initiative, lots of attacks, and a power weapon of some sort.

All of the Cron fighty units seem more like a TH/SS terminators mentality of ok swing first but it better be good because I'm tough as hell and swing back pretty hard.

I guess that would be the case...if they had high armor saves and high invul saves. And high S power weapons.

Lychguard get 4++ saves, true, but they are only S5 then, and I don't think it's a PW. They could be S7 with PW, but then they lose their invul. So TH/SS tactic doesn't really work that well for them.

Unless of course they charge something really weak or small, like FW or a Tac Squad.

The Hyperphase sword is a power weapon. Keep in mind that they have their 4++, then a 5+ to stand back up if they fail it. You can even turn it into a second 4+ with a Rez orb. I don't know the Math Hammer, but I think two 4+ is a tad bit better than a single 3+, but I could be wrong there.

It is? Well, that makes them pretty powerful then. Still, for 40+ pts a guy, I wouldn't have them pull of the sort of stunts that TH/SS termies do.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Praxiss wrote:As stated, i am not overly worried about the lack of CC transports as that is not what the Necrons are all about.

With a mix of Night Scythes and Monoliths we have the ability to quickly move unit around the table and set up potentially lether fields of fire.

Dont forget that if a unit of 10 warriors comes out of a monolith they can still fire gaus Flayers (assumgin they stay the same as they are now) 12" twice. Do this with 2 'liths and 1 Scythe (for example) the right way and you could unleash 60 S4 hits on a single uit with next to no warning at all. CC your way out of that!

Yep, and then you send in praetorians, wraiths and Lychguard to finish em' off.

Sasori wrote:

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Zachilles wrote:I think Necrons will be able to make Viable CC lists, however their CC is going to be something we new to 40k, right now a good CC unit has high initiative, lots of attacks, and a power weapon of some sort.

All of the Cron fighty units seem more like a TH/SS terminators mentality of ok swing first but it better be good because I'm tough as hell and swing back pretty hard.

I guess that would be the case...if they had high armor saves and high invul saves. And high S power weapons.

Lychguard get 4++ saves, true, but they are only S5 then, and I don't think it's a PW. They could be S7 with PW, but then they lose their invul. So TH/SS tactic doesn't really work that well for them.

Unless of course they charge something really weak or small, like FW or a Tac Squad.

The Hyperphase sword is a power weapon. Keep in mind that they have their 4++, then a 5+ to stand back up if they fail it. You can even turn it into a second 4+ with a Rez orb. I don't know the Math Hammer, but I think two 4+ is a tad bit better than a single 3+, but I could be wrong there.

Add to that the fact that the Lychguard and Praetorians are T5 to start with (i think) so they will suffer fewer wounds than a TH/SS Termiantor woudl in the first place.

This makes me think that Necrons will be a good shooty and counter-punch army.

Has it been determined if the Lycheguard and Praetorians are 1 or 2 wounds each? I'd imagine 2 each going by the fact that they're elites, 40 ppm, and the wraiths are 2 wounds at the same 40 points, while warriors and immortals are 12 and 17 points, respectively, yet only 1 wound each. A unit of 10 lycheguard coming from a monolith portal can be mighty hard to get rid of...especially considering you can point the door at a 45 degree angle, port the lyches, then move the monolith to block them from enemy LOS for a turn. the turn after that, lycheguard can get to work.

2 4+ is 75% chance and 1 3+ is a bit more than 66% chance.

Lychguard are T5 with a 4++, thats pretty tough in my opinion and swinging back with a S5 power weapon.

Wraiths are T4 with a 3++ same as terminators but with 2 wounds and S6 rending attacks back.

Praxiss wrote:

Sasori wrote:

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Zachilles wrote:I think Necrons will be able to make Viable CC lists, however their CC is going to be something we new to 40k, right now a good CC unit has high initiative, lots of attacks, and a power weapon of some sort.

All of the Cron fighty units seem more like a TH/SS terminators mentality of ok swing first but it better be good because I'm tough as hell and swing back pretty hard.

I guess that would be the case...if they had high armor saves and high invul saves. And high S power weapons.

Lychguard get 4++ saves, true, but they are only S5 then, and I don't think it's a PW. They could be S7 with PW, but then they lose their invul. So TH/SS tactic doesn't really work that well for them.

Unless of course they charge something really weak or small, like FW or a Tac Squad.

The Hyperphase sword is a power weapon. Keep in mind that they have their 4++, then a 5+ to stand back up if they fail it. You can even turn it into a second 4+ with a Rez orb. I don't know the Math Hammer, but I think two 4+ is a tad bit better than a single 3+, but I could be wrong there.

Add to that the fact that the Lychguard and Praetorians are T5 to start with (i think) so they will suffer fewer wounds than a TH/SS Termiantor woudl in the first place.

Ok ok so Lychguard are as good at CC as TH/SS termies then, you convince me.

Maybe someone could playtest this in a one on one situation?

How does a TH/SS termaintor stand up to a Praetorian/Lychguard with a S5 power weapon?

Praxiss wrote:As stated, i am not overly worried about the lack of CC transports as that is not what the Necrons are all about.

With a mix of Night Scythes and Monoliths we have the ability to quickly move unit around the table and set up potentially lether fields of fire.

Dont forget that if a unit of 10 warriors comes out of a monolith they can still fire gaus Flayers (assumgin they stay the same as they are now) 12" twice. Do this with 2 'liths and 1 Scythe (for example) the right way and you could unleash 60 S4 hits on a single uit with next to no warning at all. CC your way out of that!

Wow, I forgot you could rapid fire coming out of the portal >.> Awesome.

Praxiss wrote:Maybe someone could playtest this in a one on one situation?

How does a TH/SS termaintor stand up to a Praetorian/Lychguard with a S5 power weapon?

Ok, just give me the stats, and I'll load up vassal.

Lychguard are WS4 BS4 S5 T5 W1 A2 I2 LD10 3+ save yes? 4++ since he has shield?

and TH/SS are WS4 BS4 S4 T4 W1 A2 I4 LD9 2+ 3++?

assuming WS4 for the Lychguard they are extremely even, the Lychguard strikes first but the Terminator wounds him easier, both have almost the exact same save with a 3++ vs 4++ and 5++. Prolonged combat favors the terminator as the Lychguard would be swinging at the same time because of the thunderhammer.

This is also assuming the 1 lychguard gets to use Reanimation(Resurrection?) protocols which if it were a true 1on1 fight and he took a wound he would not

Zachilles wrote:assuming WS4 for the Lychguard they are extremely even, the Lychguard strikes first but the Terminator wounds him easier, both have almost the exact same save with a 3++ vs 4++ and 5++. Prolonged combat sees favors the terminator as the Lychguard would be swinging at the same time because of the thunderhammer.

Actually he would be striking first. Lychguard are I2, not I1

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Zachilles wrote:assuming WS4 for the Lychguard they are extremely even, the Lychguard strikes first but the Terminator wounds him easier, both have almost the exact same save with a 3++ vs 4++ and 5++. Prolonged combat sees favors the terminator as the Lychguard would be swinging at the same time because of the thunderhammer.

Actually he would be striking first. Lychguard are I2, not I1

But in prolonged combat the TH reduces target's I to 1