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Yer its about the old chaos legions, you dont see to many of them these days, and when you do, there done by pros. After the dissaperence of a the different chapter codex's for chaos, we seem to seeless begginers starting with the old legion looks, like Dragon Warriors, Emporers children, Syrar's Dark wolves, Warriors of Mahem and Skull Takers. Now im not saying that there were induvidual codex's for each of these legions no, but tht we dont see enough of them, my favourite reason, is the so called Space Marines, they seemed to take just about every kool thing that has ever been given to chaos and probly just because they are the one legion that has the balls to stand up to the so called emoporer, and nearly kill him. Just one chaos player wanting the old legions fluff back.

BDA

Here, Here! brothers rise up! take to the old chaos book and build armies the SM can fear!

BloodDeathAssault wrote:Yer its about the old cvhaos legions, you dont see to many of them these days, and when you do, there done by pros. After the dissaperence of a the different chapetr codex's for chaos, we seem to seeless begginers starting with the old legion looks, like Dragon Warriors, Emporers children, Syrar's Dark wolves, Warriors of Mahem and Skull Takers. Now im not saying that there were induvidual codex's for each of these legions no, but tht we dont see enough of them, my favourite reason, is the so called Space Marines, they seemed to take just about every kool thing that has ever been given to chaos and probly just because they are the one legion that has the balls to stand up to the so called emoporer, and nearly kill him. Just one chaos player wanting the old legions fluff back.

BDA

Is this available in a readable form?

The only thing I've got from it was your last sentence. :S

Ouf of all the "legions" you quoted, only the Emperor's Children are a true "legion". Skyrar's Dark Wolves, the Skull Takers, and the rest are renegade marine chapters, most just created in the newest incarnation of the Codex.

The old/original Traitor Legions were the following;

Alpha Legion
Iron Warriors
Night Lords
Word Bearers
Black Legion
World Eaters
Emperor's Children
Death Guard
Thousand Sons

The World Eaters, Emperor's Children, Death Guard, and Thousand Sons are wholy devoted to the four Chaos gods, while the other gods are more "robust" in their worship.

I see what you mean about them being renegade marine chapters, and thats fine, i stand corected, and how you said that the old/original legions were.
Alpha Legion
Iron Warriors
Night Lords
Word Bearers
Black Legion
World Eaters
Emperor's Children
Death Guard
Thousand Sons

So why cant games wrokshop give chaos few different codex's of those legions like sm???

BDA

Cause there are enough MEQ books out there to start with?

Cause you can make most of those armies with the existing Chaos Codex?

Ozymandias, King of Kings

Because GW hates Chaos Space Marines. And Chaos Space Marine players. That's all.

BloodDeathAssault wrote:

So why can't games workshop give chaos marienz few different codices of those legions like real spase marienz???

The same treatment as the DA/BA/SW had done to them? For which of the 9 former legions do you want this happen?

Look at the actual way GW does to non-smurfs and decide after that if a seperate dex would be so great.

BloodDeathAssault wrote:So why cant games wrokshop give chaos few different codex's of those legions like sm???

It's not that they can't. They just haven't... yet...

GW has a hard enough time keeping the current codecii balanced. No need to add to their workload.

1hadhq wrote:For which of the 9 former legions do you want this happen?

I'm going to give a GW answer and say 3 Powers:
- Khorne (WE),
- Nurgle (DG),
- Slannesh (EC),
No Tzeentch (TS), as GW *hates* Tzeentch.

No reason why they can't do what they've done for Marines and just make us take Special Characters to take IW/WB/EC/WE/DG/NL and so on.

BYE

Holy crap less marine armies please.

Fix all the broken non-marine armies then release more marine crap!

lol i like what your saying and in some what agree with you, but but chaos are different, like a saying i came acros: Chaos Space Marine "Like normal space marines...but so much cooler". So what im saying is that chaos isnt like the normal bunch of marines, atleast we can have more character aka nurgle, in the short time ive known chaos theres one big thing ive learnt, chaos aint very strong with the new rules, from what ive heard they were stronger once apon a time.

BDA

As a chaos player yes I'd love a nice dex giving all the old legions some spiffy new rules to make them unique etc etc.

However I think for now there are more pressing codecies which need updating, the CSM codex is playable and very usable, and before more MEQ books appear they need to sort out DE, Necrons, Guard, INQ. Once they've done that I'd be happy with a legions book, so i'm saying lets love the CSM book in 2009 and look forward to legions in 2010

Reaver83 wrote:As a chaos player yes I'd love a nice dex giving all the old legions some spiffy new rules to make them unique etc etc.

However I think for now there are more pressing codecies which need updating, the CSM codex is playable and very usable, and before more MEQ books appear they need to sort out DE, Necrons, Guard, INQ. Once they've done that I'd be happy with a legions book, so i'm saying lets love the CSM book in 2009 and look forward to legions in 2010

Yes those dex's really need the update and face lift but really why on earth did the SM get one!!!! what a waste of resources for the current time!

BloodDeathAssault wrote: but chaos are different "Like normal space marines...but so much cooler". So what im saying is that chaos isnt like the normal bunch of marines

To awesome coolness for a dex by GW

atleast we can have more character aka nurgle

Nurgle spreads character,not disease

from what ive heard they were stronger once apon a time.

This was before heresy
Now theyre old and retired,handed the "let the galaxy burn" thing over to renegades


@ john: Wouldn't a dex for all ruinous"powers" do better than a collection of 3 codices? or 5 if GW wants to screw chaos?

A complete BIG codex with fluff and 9 armylists is easier to balance than 3 to 5 codices with releases spread over 1 or 2 years.
Demons are cut out = not bad. Fluff is restricted to the 4 cults plus Black"legion" = worst case for IW,WB,AL .
Should the IW+WB+AL come back = return of demons =

@ H.B.M.C: SC may do the trick,but this needs a new dex and I agree with a release-schedule that gives the old (3rd ed) codices
priority over CSM. 3 dex in the last 10 years are more than some others had from GW

1hadhq wrote:@ H.B.M.C: SC may do the trick,but this needs a new dex and I agree with a release-schedule that gives the old (3rd ed) codices
priority over CSM. 3 dex in the last 10 years are more than some others had from GW

Yeah I dunno if I'd call it three Codecis. I'm pretty sure that when Gav was 'writing' the current Chaos Codex, he would just open up the Dark Angel Codex and use the 'Find/Replace' function until it was time for his mid-morning nap.

BYE

H.B.M.C. wrote:Yeah I dunno if I'd call it three Codecis. I'm pretty sure that when Gav was 'writing' the current Chaos Codex, he would just open up the Dark Angel Codex and use the 'Find/Replace' function until it was time for his mid-morning nap.

BYE

Heh, so we'd end up with Chaos Deathwing, Ravenwing, and hatred of the Fallen?

Remember that it was 'written' by two people, so Alessio had to do something while Gav was napping and before his 3 hour lunchbreak.

BYE

1hadhq wrote:@ john: Wouldn't a dex for all ruinous"powers" do better than a collection of 3 codices? or 5 if GW wants to screw chaos?

A complete BIG codex with fluff and 9 armylists is easier to balance than 3 to 5 codices with releases spread over 1 or 2 years.

Demons are cut out = not bad. Fluff is restricted to the 4 cults plus Black"legion" = worst case for IW,WB,AL .

Should the IW+WB+AL come back = return of demons =

Define "better".

From a GW POV, one big book is clearly worse than 5 (or 6) books because having many books means that GW can do a Chaos feature promotion every year to help sell more models. Having a gaming line go dark for 5 years at a stretch is a bad thing from GW's perspective.

I completely agree that having a single big collection of lists is a lot easier to balance. That's why the 3rd edition rulebook lists provided one of the best-balanced gaming environments 40k has ever seen. Of course, there weren't any Cocides around. But again, GW really isn't interested in "balance". GW is interested in selling models. And those models continue to sell. So until players withhold their money from GW, GW won't make the connection.

Yep, that's the 5 (or 6) Codices I'm expecting for Chaos: BL, WE, DG, EC, TS (& Daemons).

Considering how much fun I had when IW, WB, & AL were across the table, I'm OK if they sit things out in favor of more balanced BL-style lists, or more Chaos-flavorful Powers lists.

All I can say is GW went too far when they nerfed Armies like Iron Warriors and Word Bearers. What a total F'ing disappointment... Considering how powerful Nids, Orks or Eldar armies can be it’s a shame that CSM players are left with so few choices.

If its all about codices to sell,then CSM may get a "chaos undivided" dex with IW,WB,AL in.
Would be GW's playground to redo CSM with a bunch of armies that got nothing in the current dex.

Copy the old articles and pics in,put a warsmith and a dark apostle as SC in,AL SC...........
.were they not all alpharius? :S yes,multiple SC... alpharius 1.2.3 or multipharius

I try really to figure options out,but it seems the chaos boyz are to identical to have enough differences to fill more than 1 codex.
Maybe it could be filled with cultists/mutants and traitor-guard.

The drawback is this 2nd dex would make chaos complete and the "cult-marines" and BL get stuck with the Gav-dex.

OTOH could a dex with cultists and traitor guard in follow the IG dex.=> First sell IG then sell conversion sprues and more IG.
The word bearers and alpha legion make also a good excuse to bring C: inquisition.=> plastic sisters and stormtroopers.

IMHO its not a question of more codices = more sells. Its a question of a number of codices to cover all the armys in the
perfect order to drive campaigns and customers from dex to dex without losing track of the fluff.
GW has to replace all 3rd ed based codices and new races will not come,so the current codices should be linked in a
"preferred enemy" order to get a line into the releases.With a focus on a few but good codices a year GW may sell more than
dozens of bad codices ever can do.

What to do with the CSM now? Repent and seek the emperors mercy? Repaint in pre-heresy colors and use C: SM

1hadhq wrote:What to do with the CSM now? Repent and seek the emperors mercy? Repaint in pre-heresy colors and use C: SM

Heck, why even repaint 'em. Just say, "These are my Pre-Heresy World Eaters." And when your opponent says, "But they've got symbols of Khorne all of them!" You just say, "Okay, well, they've just converted to Khorne and haven't had time to re-structure their army yet."

I'm thinking that if they do a legion book, it'll probably be a combination of the four big gods, I'm thinking that BL is well represented by the current chaos dex, and that cult armies are probably high on the list.

I think they'd have big problems (looking at the way they've done their recent codecies) with doing the other legions. I don't imagine they'd do +1 Heavy/Fast attack, and I don't think they'll say choose guardsmen or demons from the respective books either.

I think when/if they do a legions book they need to think hard about how to make the legions different (and not just rehash the stuff from 3.5 as imho it's not great) But also work out how to make it so they can function independently.

It may well be beyond them

BloodDeathAssault wrote:
So why cant games wrokshop give chaos few different codex's of those legions like sm???

BDA

Cause Chaos space marines aren't nearly as popular. Follow the money trail and you will find your answer every time.

Ozymandias wrote:Cause you can make most of those armies with the existing Chaos Codex?

So? I can make DA, BA, BT, and SW armies with the existing SM Codex. In fact I can make a better DA army with the SM codex than a TS army with the Chaos one.

Stelek wrote:Holy crap less marine armies please.

Fix all the broken non-marine armies then release more marine crap!

There's no reason Chaos has to be a "marine army". With cultists, beastmen, and mutants Chaos has the potential to be so much more than weaksauce Ultramarines with spikes.

But those were the heady days of the fabled First Edition, when we were emerging from the Cold War, banging our heads to Iron Maiden with 100 percent efficiency, and carrying a large book filled with lurid images of aliens, daemons, and musclebound knights from space into homeroom, hoping to the Emperor that it wouldn't get confiscated. And dreaming that one day I would be in the presence of Bryan Ansell and his magic moustache. Sadly, that dream never came true.

But I digress.

Frankly, I kind of like the Renegade nature of the CSM's as they are right now, if only for the reason that in my opinion the legions of the heresy were of much sterner stuff than these upstarts that daub eight-pointed stars on their armour like teenyboppers scrawl on their trapper keepers.

Knight of Cydonia: "My red zebra striped armour is but a portrait of the hatred for the Corpse Emperor that lies in my black heart. Glory to Chaos!! Angst, Doom, PAAAIIINNNN!!!!"

Son of Horus: "I walked in the presence of the Warmaster. Entire worlds have died with my name bubbling through bloodied lips. I have slaked my lust on angels, daemons and beasts. Any questions?"

But not everyone shares my vision. Case in point: just today at the LFGS I gave the manager my army list for the next RTT. It consisted of Angron and a retinue of eight Daemon Princes, along with a group of eight Bloodthirsters.

Sure, he told me to get out, but hey, I got a free WD 344 out of it!

Wow I like this thread a lot! There is some real substance. Personally I think you can still build a fluffy legion army... it takes some imagination but you can put something on ththe table that rocks. That said I am all in favor of a separate codex that more appropriately represents the original four legions and I believe it should allow the use of daemons from the Chaos daemons list as allies. It's not a big deal really.

G

Id have to agree with Abadabadoobaddon, chaos doesnt have to be "Marine Army" and like he also said, we are mutants i dont c any chaos players battling with the emporer on their side. But i spose chaos is mostly known for nurgle, seeings as the are the most mutant.

Theres so much more to chaos than plage marines and noise marines, you just have to look.

BDA

I would be very happy to see chaos cultists become a troop choice for my CSM army. If we are moving away from legions and towards renegades, cultists should be a mainstay of the renegade army.