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So, I've been thinking about this for a while and felt it was about time I expressed my thoughts. I'm fully expecting to be flamed for this but my opinion is just as valid as yours!

This forum seems full of people who seem to have a pretty negative view of White Dwarf and very few people who are willing to stand up and say that they enjoy any part of it, so I thought that I would.

I'm primarily a painter and modeller (albeit not a very good one) and one of the main points of enjoyment for me is in seeing new models painted to an excellent standard by the 'eavy metal painters. The painting guides are very useful and the only single resource I've found anywhere with so many models painted in a step by step guide. Yes, they skip steps and no, they don't show all of the detail, but they are very useful in improving your skill. Seriously. Sit down with the same model as in the magazine and paint along with it. Your skills will improve.

Since I enjoy the modelling aspect, it's always nice to see the new models coming out, even if they're not for my chosen race, because bitz can always be pilfered from one model and used with another. I know that many of the pages of the magazine are taken up with adverts for models I won't buy, but it's still nice to see what's available. I generally don't look at sneak peaks on the internet of races I have no interest in, and without White Dwarf, I wouldn't know what was coming out. It's very easy to miss something on the internet, but White Dwarf will always show you everything that is coming out.

I fully understand the arguments about the battle reports being a showcase for what's new and shiny and that the 'newly released' army always wins, but let's face it, why would you ever release a product and then show it being bettered by an older product? That would be like an advert for a car maunfacturer saying "Buy the new Renault Laguna, it's not as good as the old one!" Yes, I'm sure they manufacture the report in order to make the new products look good and it's not 'honest journalism', but that's how you sell stuff.

I know that it's not exactly cheap. I do think it's overpriced. But then, so are all other magazines out there. If you look at the price of any magazine, it is ludicrous. Especially those for consoles and computers! It's only a couple of quid each month and this isn't the cheapest of hobbies in the first place. If you wanted to save money, you chose the wrong hobby! Ok, I work full time and can afford a few quid each month and I can see that this may be a bit much for some people.

I don't know about you, but sometimes I 'lose faith' with this hobby and aren't particularly interested in it for a while. don't get me wrong, I love this hobby, but sometimes there are just things I would rather do and be interested in. When a copy of White Dwarf plops onto the door mat, it helps rejuvenate and inspire me to work on that unit of Boyz or whatever else I'm working in and then I really get back into it.

Not every magazine has stuff in it that I'm interested in. This latest (November) issue had virtually nothing of interest in it for me (save a great painting guide), but that doesn't mean that I didn't devour it almost instantly.

I don't expect to convert anyone to White Dwarf. I don't expect to even change anyone's opinions. All I wanted to do was to present my thoughts.



There. A nice cathartic sigh. And I'm finished. Feel free to disagree, moan, flame, denounce, destroy and generally bitch about my argument. But you're not going to change the fact that when my copy of White Dwarf comes through the envelope, my wife always laughs at how much I enjoy my 'Pixie magazine'!

Out of interest, which issue was your first ever white dwarf?

If you enjoy and find value in White Dwarf, than that's great! I don't think you'll find many who would say that WD is worthless to everbody, they just don't find it worthwhile to them.

InyokaMadoda, I agree 100%

The issue is that older WDs used to have more material in them... now it is pretty much all advertisement :(

I would like to see more content less fill

READS GREAT!
LESS FILLING

I first got into the hobby when I was 11 or so, so that's almost 20 years now. And yes, I was buying WD then.

I agree. There is less content. Does that mean that the content that is there is not worth reading? No. Does it mean that it is less financially worth it? Probably. Do I still enjoy the magazine 20 years later? Definitely.

InyokaMadoda wrote:I agree. There is less content. Does that mean that the content that is there is not worth reading? No. Does it mean that it is less financially worth it? Probably. Do I still enjoy the magazine 20 years later? Definitely.

I enjoy WD too, in the sense that it deals with a hobby I enjoy and it doesn't make me want to claw my eyes out. I think the main issue people like me make is that I don't get $4 worth of enjoyment from WD, let alone the price they charge now. If you do, then that's great.

The complaints stem from the changes to the magazines format. It used to be chock full of content like chapter approved articles, new bits of fluff, and generally had a 1 to 1 text to picture ratio. It's an excellent model and painting showcase these days, but it's just not that interesting to read any more.

And you are entitled to your opinion too.

We all get different things from different things. Personally, I get way more than £4 worth of enjoyment from it. As I said, I'm not out to change anyone's opinion, but felt that I should express mine.

i used to wait on baited breath for white dwarf every month for years. i just lost interest in the recent years for alot of reasons. i play alot of specialist games, and the total lack of SG support in white dwarf has really turned me off. all the advertisements get irritating.

it was alot better years ago when i could crack a white dwarf and get chapter approved, specialist games battle reports for epic and BFG, and stuff like that. now its just buy our stuff and look at our painted models.

i understand why they do what they do, SG isnt in their focus becuase it isnt making them as much money as space marines. all in all i just see white dwarf as more as a way for GW to hock their new shiny wears, but it is a business.

It IS a business and we shouldn't forget that. Just because we all get very involved with this hobby doesn't mean that GW doesn't primarily want to make money. I agree that the 'Specialist Games' (That phrase always makes me feel dirty....) should be covered more, but there you go. It would be nice if they had more fluff, general articles etc, but they don't. My original points are all still valid for me though.

InyokaMadoda wrote: Personally, I get way more than £4 worth of enjoyment from it.....

yeah,
but do you get £4.50s worth out of it?

I agree with you dude, too much WD bashing goes on here because it's easy... I honestly think alot of the people on here see the dakka celebs belittle WD and copy them, In a effort to look cool.

Also I think it's hard/unfair to compare the old WDs to the new WDs due to ammount the hobby (and GW itself) has evolved since then,
I'm thinking of coping yakface and making my signature say Panics rule 1: Nostalgia isn't as good as it used to be...

Panic...

Exactly! Glad to hear that I've found at least one other believer! Hallelujah Brother!

And yes, easily £4.50 worth of enjoyment. And I would hazard to say that I can often eke out a full £5 worth of enjoyment, but only when they show nice new shiny orks!

Realistically, look at some other hobby type magazines out there. A paintball mag is probably 95% ads. How about mainstream magazines? My girlfriend buys one of those ungoldy huge womens mags now and again and they are 99% ads. It's just the way a lot of magazines are now...

InyokaMadoda wrote:but my opinion is just as valid as yours!

A commonly held fallacy. Everyone is certainly entitled to their own opinion, but not all opinions are valid. You can have an opinon that's wrong...

BYE

mattyboy22 wrote:Realistically, look at some other hobby type magazines out there. A paintball mag is probably 95% ads. How about mainstream magazines? My girlfriend buys one of those ungoldy huge womens mags now and again and they are 99% ads. It's just the way a lot of magazines are now...

Yeah but GW only sells their own stuff. They don't need to advertise in something that some who already knows about the hobby reads. If they want to advertise, they should, y'know, actually advertise. Preaching to the converted doesn't really do them any favours.

BYE

Panic wrote:

InyokaMadoda wrote: Personally, I get way more than £4 worth of enjoyment from it.....

I honestly think alot of the people on here see the dakka celebs belittle WD and copy them, In a effort to look cool.

thats the most ridiculous thing Ive read on here. I have no clue who the "celebs" are and im sure alot of people on here are the same way. I remember people by seeing them post often, or if they make an ass of themselves on multiple threads.
I think the reason so many bash WD is because like myself, most think that WD deserves the bashing. If someone likes WD thats fine with me, i wont insult them personally and say they are idiots. Obviously theres something in the magazine they get out of it. But personally i think WD is pretty much a waste of almost 9 bucks.
IMO saying what you said makes you sound like your on a higher level then the "non celeb" dakka fans. I normally agree with your views on things but this one is not one we see eye to eye on

I have to be honest, I really don't see why any number of Dakka celebrities bashing white Dwarf would have any impact on your enjoyment. If you dig it, then knock yourself out!


the people that knock White Dwarf are primarily people that want a hobby magazine, but don't feel like they get what they want.

This has nothing to do with absolute value, that is of course impossible. Tastes vary, and while I wouldn't pay money for tinned sardines, I don't judge the people that do. If you enjoy White Dwarf, then enjoy the heck out of it!

Sure, some of the decrying of White Dwarf can get a little repetitive, but as I've stated numerous times: if you don't like complaint echo chambers, leave them!

Now that that's dealt with, onto more important matters:

Who wants my autograph?





BYE

P.S. God help the person who takes my above statement seriously.

I generally buy more old backissues of WD than I do new issues. I bought the last new one because it had a cool John Blanche chaos warrior poster! Oh, and it had rules for Harry the Hammer in it. Sweet! That was a good issue.

I'll tell you when I stopped buying White Dwarf. It was not long after the 2nd Ed Sisters of Battle Codex came out.

White Dwarf had a three part battle report that showed a developing story over these three games, each one getting bigger. This is around issue 220-something - not long after they ditched the cardstock inserts but kept the price the same.

Anyway, I loved WD. I loved the Battle Reports. Some of my fav BatReps are like when the Mega-Armoured Nobs and Ultramarine Dread were first released, back before the Guard even had a Codex, or the BatRep where Andy Chambers took on Adi Wood and Jervis Johnson when the Tyranid Codex came out - those sorts of games. Or the Dawn Raid report where JJ used Orks to smash Jake Thorntorn's Ultramarines (it was the month where the Razorback was first released), and we got to see the Ultramarine Captain tear through half an Ork army hopped up on Combat Drugs. Loved those reports.

This WH however showed us three bat reps in 3 pages. Each battle was an isometric photo of the terrain with some arrows and speech bubbles. It wasn't a report. It was a picture. There was no blow-by-blow turn count, no maps showing troop movements and deaths, very little on army list construction.

Just three pictures.

Didn't buy another WD until the TAR came out for 3rd Ed.

BYE

My favorite battle report was an old 2nd ed one. Blood Angels, Ultras, Space Wolves, and Dark Angels were taking on a rouge Imperial Guard army led by a rouge psyker. There was 4 guys to each side and one of them was the supreme commander. They could only, IIRC, write one sentence to each other between turns and this was back when all the BR's were told with cinematic flair. I thought that was so cool.

I stopped buying WD when I started working for GW and got it for free. Since I've left, I rarely if ever have picked one up in the last 4 or 5 years.

Yes, the Heretic report, where they sent in legions of tanks to fight one another against the evil Lord Varlaak. Also the issue where we first saw the Leman Russ Demolisher.

Good report.

BYE

I currently enjoy my WD subscription. But if there was something better i would probably spend my money on that. I dig looking at beautifuly painted and converted models, and i enjoy reading most battle reports. But again if i could get a glossy magazine that included GW and PP and all other companys, i would give a left testicle and gladly pay the price that gw sells there magazine for.

Yeah but GW only sells their own stuff. They don't need to advertise in something that some who already knows about the hobby reads. If they want to advertise, they should, y'know, actually advertise. Preaching to the converted doesn't really do them any favours.

Says the man with the ungodly number of Russ hulls.

I wouldn't be surprised to see more SG support from the WD's coming out soon. From what I'm understanding my FLGS Bunker is marching to orders to work out intro games to all specialist games sometime soon. While I can see it working for things like Epic, having just had an "intro" game to Blood Bowl, that one could be insane.

My problem with White Dwarf isn't that it doesn't feature new and very well painted models, it's that it does little else. Older WD's had new units/rules/wargear/lists/FAQ's/fluff, etc along with battle reports and content on specialist games as well. (and in the *really* old days, had stuff from other companies as well, WD used to feature D&D stuff)

Now? Every once in a while we get a "get you by" list for some army thats been invalidated by new rules (and in the case of WoC, was beyond terrible and poorly done) if we're lucky, rather mediocre battle reports, and nothing related to the actual game itself on rules and alternate/new stuff, and specialist games content is gone. It's little more than an $8 ad for the newest releases, with the occaisional re-hashed painting article.

And that works for some people, which is fine for them, I have nothing against that, but for me, its an $8 advertisement, containing nothing I can't get online.

Ratbarf wrote:Says the man with the ungodly number of Russ hulls.

Yeah but I didn't do that 'cause I read White Dwarf. I did that because I'm a completist and couldn't have more than 20 Russes but less than 30. I had to have full Companies.

That sounded better before I typed it...

BYE

The only thing of use from recent White Dwarf issues, and they've been doing this since Codex Eldar IIRC, is where they put pictures of every single bit on the new sprues.

Sure, it's more advertising, but at least it is practical advertising, showing me exactly what I'm getting.

BYE