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This just occured to me, why don't Chaos Space Marines get Land Speeders? Loyalist Space Marines do.

I dunno, maybe they weren't used during the Heresy or something. Whatever, I'm gonna make some anyways.

Any other ideas?

i dont know, i know that the emperors children used jetbikes alot and they dont have them anymore. you have me asing the same question too

Id say its because the Sapec Marines tite asses, there so much that sm have that chaos doesnt, like rules for and stuff, but offcorse being chaos naturally they dont have the sam rules, but wat im saying is that chaos have been made and thrown away, there rules are so called good powers and bonus's suck, not all of em but cmon, the sm landraider has so many cool thing, like machines spirit atc, chaos has nothing.

Im open for arguments or debating.

You should also be open to using proper english and punctuation - as required by the board rules.

Seriously, punctuation helps.

Why don't CSM get speeders?

Seriously, why would you want a slow moving target that can be popped by a bolter? That can only shoot one weapon if it moves over 6"?

Oh, because it has rending assault cannons, isn't it?

I thought Land Speeders were Fast vehicles, so they could use a main weapon if moving up to 12", and all main weapons if moving up to 6".

Basically, Chaos Marines get denied a bunch of technology because if they had it, loyal Space Marines wouldn't have a whole lot going for them. Chaos Marines already have mutations, daemons, psychotic warmachines, and cursed artifacts.

If they could also take a bunch of advanced dark-age technology, post-heresy inventions (which would be perfectly realistic with all of the renegade chapters coming to the center stage), and drop pods, then no one would have a reason to play Space Marines.

The Inquisition works on the same principle; everyone would play them if they could really commandeer anything from the Space Marine, Imperial Guard, or Inquisition codices. Instead they're limited to the most basic units to make the armies have advantages too.

Making your own, however, is a great idea.

I'm guessing it was originally a model issue. There was no chaos landspeeder, so Chaos didn't get the option in the codex. At this point, it's basically a game balance thing as has been pointed out.

There's no real reason not to include them these days, but I think at this point it's tradition.

@Nurglitch: yeah. Checked where they hid the rule about Fast vehicles and the extra speed band.
6-12" = 1 main and all defensive (only of benefit to a Typhoon with frags).

However, unless they have concealment by terrain, they can be popped quite easily by boltguns, and if they do have the concealment, they don't need to move, so can fire all weapons anyway.

Can loyalists have walkers with ordnance?
Countless "troops" that don't take up FOC slots?

Nope?

Then No landspeeders for you.

Edit: corrections.

chromedog:

Uh, that's move up to 12" and fire one main weapon.

chromedog wrote:

Seriously, why would you want a slow moving target that can be popped by a bolter? That can only shoot one weapon if it moves over 6"?

I don't know, I was just curious is all. I don't really want one, I just thought since SMs hvae them than Chaos might have them too.

You have several more units (sucky as they may be) than SM that don't take up FOC slots, and are scoring, can deepstrike and assault that turn (?).

You don't need them.

This landspeeder envy shall pass.

You should be wanting our loyalist Land Raiders more (because they fit more models inside)

chaos dont have them as according to the old fluff the landspeeder was mass produced and introduced after the heresy (they were around before just not in great numbers), at the time obviously the legions had jetbikes and they wanted something that could keep up with the jetbike squads and mount heavy weaponry thus was born the landspeeder however due to the fact that their was a galaxy spanning war the chapters/legions didn't get them till afterwords (i'm sure gulliman made up a nice rhyme about how they are meant to be used too)

i don't know whether current fluff still cites this as a reason but that's basically it

99MDeery wrote:chaos dont have them as according to the old fluff the landspeeder was mass produced and introduced after the heresy (they were around before just not in great numbers), at the time obviously the legions had jetbikes and they wanted something that could keep up with the jetbike squads and mount heavy weaponry thus was born the landspeeder however due to the fact that their was a galaxy spanning war the chapters/legions didn't get them till afterwords (i'm sure gulliman made up a nice rhyme about how they are meant to be used too)

i don't know whether current fluff still cites this as a reason but that's basically it

Well you see that makes more sense. That's all I needed to know.

My memory is that since CSMs aren't so good at maintenance (those slimy tentacles just can't hold a spanner) a lot of their advanced gear quickly falls apart. Hence no whirlwinds, land speeders, drop pods et al.

Not the best fluff in the world, especially since CSMs now have jump packs and the like, but that was the original idea.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:My memory is that since CSMs aren't so good at maintenance (those slimy tentacles just can't hold a spanner) a lot of their advanced gear quickly falls apart. Hence no whirlwinds, land speeders, drop pods et al.

Not the best fluff in the world, especially since CSMs now have jump packs and the like, but that was the original idea.

I'm pretty sure they have drop pods.

IMO i dont see why chaos cant and DONT just scavenge imperial equipment. seriously you think after a long battle they dont send the cultists out there to get the good stuff?
"oh SWEET! the brand new mark89776-hgu2334 storm bolter! man thats a nice gun.... BUUUUUUUuuuuuut im keeping my crappy twin linked bolt gun. i mean i named it sooooo...."
NO THATS STUPID! besides they all had the exact same training! your telling me they couldnt pick up modern SM equipment and figure it ou in a short period of time?

KingCracker wrote:IMO i dont see why chaos cant and DONT just scavenge imperial equipment. seriously you think after a long battle they dont send the cultists out there to get the good stuff?
"oh SWEET! the brand new mark89776-hgu2334 storm bolter! man thats a nice gun.... BUUUUUUUuuuuuut im keeping my crappy twin linked bolt gun. i mean i named it sooooo...."
NO THATS STUPID! besides they all had the exact same training! your telling me they couldnt pick up modern SM equipment and figure it ou in a short period of time?

Marines have a legion of Tech Priests, servitors, forge worlds and the like to support them. CSMs have a couple of starving slaves and some gibbering mutants.

Besides over time their equipment fuses with their flesh and is infused with warp energy. "Gee I sure wish I could pick up that storm bolter but my old combi bolter is fused to my left hand and anyway it fires live demon maggots rather than ammo."

Again, if I were running things CSMs would have even less advanced stuff than they do now but GW has to sell models.

The STC for land speeders was recovered at the same time as the land raider but only the land raider was deemed useful in the heavy assault role that the space marine legions played. Since the heresy the focus of loyalist space marines has turned to fast strikes and crippling precision actions, so the utility of the land speeder warented its difficult construction.

There. Thats it. Chaos doesn't get it because chaos doesn't have the adeptus mechanicus forgeworlds. They just have to be happy with their armor 13 superdreadnaut that has a battlecanon. They also don't get whirlwinds or any of the land raider variants that came about post heresy.

If you wanted the cool new toys you shouldn't have rebelled and started worshipping gods that exist anathema to technological progress and development.

KingCracker wrote:IMO i dont see why chaos cant and DONT just scavenge imperial equipment. seriously you think after a long battle they dont send the cultists out there to get the good stuff?
"oh SWEET! the brand new mark89776-hgu2334 storm bolter! man thats a nice gun.... BUUUUUUUuuuuuut im keeping my crappy twin linked bolt gun. i mean i named it sooooo...."
NO THATS STUPID! besides they all had the exact same training! your telling me they couldnt pick up modern SM equipment and figure it ou in a short period of time?

they can they do, hell if you want to have LS in your chaos army go grab the old VDR rules or play apocalypse and convert a few up, but as for the basic game you can't have an army that has access to his own armory and then the vanilla marine one as well, from a game design point of view it makes sense, it keeps an army with its own distinct flavor (i know with the current CSM book that is a slight contradiction in terms but you know what i mean) to give you an incentive to play different armies (and buy more toys insert GW maniacal laughter here)

and yes they do have DPs, their called dreadclaws or something like that and are very expensive from your good friends Forge World

chromedog, i should slap you for saying that csm have several more units, if you had eyes and looked at all the different factions/ chapter or wateva you wanna call em, and say all the units they get, demon hunters, sisters of battle, dark angles, Black Templars and then normal sm, i think all up theres more units there than in the csm range, so i woulder whos got the unfare advantage, we should all just play sm then we can all be cool * caugh caugh*

Yes SM's are the flagship of GW and get alot of extra stuff they shouldnt have.

But CSM is the only arm that has a unit that has access to over 5 weapons at a time and can mix and match and DS, the oblidorators.

To have the ability to have T% troops [nurgle], to have 4++ save troop [tzeench] and all the rest. you have one of the best characters in the 40k universe, abaddon. you have access to some of the nastiest powers [nurgles rot and lash of submission]

Yes SM's get 3 different types of Land Raider and dreadnought but you have greater demons and lesser demon, and the defiler.

But yes CSM's need to be brought up to the SM's standard

KingCracker wrote:IMO i dont see why chaos cant and DONT just scavenge imperial equipment.

They do, but what's in the codex is what all the armies have access too all the time. Landspeeders came into use post heresey, so the legions didn't have an existing pool of them to take with them, and however many get scrounged from battle fields across the Imperium is not a large enough number that any warband anywhere in the galaxy could have some in their possession.

Because if Chaos had Landspeeders, then they wouldn't be different from regular SM?

They melt them down to make spikes for their armour.

or give them to orks, so they smash the other humies

KingCracker wrote:IMO i dont see why chaos cant and DONT just scavenge imperial equipment.

They do.

The Codex isn't supposed to represent every possible option for every conceivable Chaos force. It's supposed to build (fluffwise) your roughly stereotypical Chaos force and (ruleswise) a list that is distinct from the loyalist Space Marine list.

Well when a Chapter turns traitor, they have to get lots of spikes. Now, spikes don't grow on trees, so the Adeptus Terra set up a Spike Trading Scheme whereby you could get as many spikes as you like as long as you were able to pay for them.

Most renegade Space Marine chapters do this by giving in all their Land Speeders, Attack Bikes, Razorbacks and Whirlwinds, as well as any non-standard Land Raiders they have hanging around. Multi-Meltas, for some reason, are worth heaps of Spikes, so they give those in as well. Vindicators fetch a low Spike-Price so they usually hold onto those.

This is how the Imperium keeps up its supply of these items, and why renegade Marines are so spiky.

BYE

Genius as usual H.B.M.C.

But whoever said that Chaos gets an Armor 13 superdread with a battlecannon.....its armor 12. As long as we are on the subject, I'd rather have Sternguard than Chosen, but I swore never to play power armor unless it was really evil and I could explain it away as something that wasn't really marines.

George Spiggott wrote:They melt them down to make spikes for their armour.

I wonder why they don't make a few shovels to free up some space in their transports. All those extra skulls take up a lot of room!

I thought CSMs were the first to use drop pods too? Why did they say "Man that was fun falling out of the sky and killing everyone. Oh well f--- this drop pod we don't need it anymore" that doesn't make sense to me. You'd think they'd hall it back up to the ship for another go in the future.

GW doesn't know or adhere to any of the fluff they write. I'm sure CSM will get a new Defiler variant and another spawn variant in the near future. They will of course be heavy support because CSM is lacking in that area.