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Citadel brush (widely condemned as sh*te): $8.00
High quality(e.g. Kolinsky) brush from art supplies store: $6.00

Citadel paint (12ml): $3.50
Vallejo paint (17ml): $2.75

GW Chaos Black Spray Paint (400ml): $15
Armory Primer (12oz/354ml): $5.99

GW gaming board: $290
Zuzzy 4x6 gaming mat: $53 (granted this mat is much lighter, already tinted and textured, and takes up less space but it is a mat not rigid plastic squares so you'll need a table [oh wait, you need a table for the GW boards too])

I could continue with the comparisons but I think that, gentle reader, you get the point. So the question is: why does anyone buy anything other than miniatures from GW?

Do they still sell Armory Primer? I thought they stopped. :(

malfred wrote:Do they still sell Armory Primer? I thought they stopped. :(

the warstore.com stocks it.

A meal with tip and no drinks: $16
Pedro Kantor: $15

A lap dance with tip : $50
Land Raider: $50

A discount CD: $10
Imperial Guard Commissar: $12

GW IS OUT OF CONTROL!!!!! :S

there non-paint stuff is nutz-expensive, I agree
The non-spray is unreasonable

edit: typo x2

I think the Hobby Knife for 15.00 is the worst of it though...
even with the fancy handle

Belphegor wrote:A meal with tip and no drinks: $16
Pedro Kantor: $15

A lap dance with tip : $50
Land Raider: $50

A discount CD: $10
Imperial Guard Commissar: $12

Getting a 15% discount and free worldwide shipping: Priceless.

For impulse buys you can go to GW. For everything else, there's Maelstrom Games UK.

BYE

Belphegor wrote:A lap dance with tip : $50

cell phone pictures sent to your fiancee?

PRICELESS!

olympia wrote:Citadel brush (widely condemned as sh*te): $8.00
High quality(e.g. Kolinsky) brush from art supplies store: $6.00

Citadel paint (12ml): $3.50
Vallejo paint (17ml): $2.75

GW Chaos Black Spray Paint (400ml): $15
Armory Primer (12oz/354ml): $5.99

GW gaming board: $290
Zuzzy 4x6 gaming mat: $53 (granted this mat is much lighter, already tinted and textured, and takes up less space but it is a mat not rigid plastic squares so you'll need a table [oh wait, you need a table for the GW boards too])

I could continue with the comparisons but I think that, gentle reader, you get the point. So the question is: why does anyone buy anything other than miniatures from GW?

Good question. I must admit I'm a bit surprised at the cost of spray paint in general. Seems to me it used to be a couple of bucks, and now it's like $5-6 for Krylon at wally world. BTW, just to rub salt in old wounds I've got some cans of Citadel Spray from '01 with $7.20US price tags..... So the price has double in less that 7 years.

In the case of all the hobby stuff they're just a reseller, so the costs are going to be higher.

malfred wrote:Do they still sell Armory Primer? I thought they stopped. :(

Yes, I got their clear coat down at the FLGS. Best clear coat on the market, now the Krylon is nolonger a true matt coat.

olympia wrote:Citadel brush (widely condemned as sh*te): $8.00
High quality(e.g. Kolinsky) brush from art supplies store: $6.00

Seriously, they are doing us a favour there. Discouraring us form buying their absolutely crap brushes is a good thing.

Although a kolisnky sable brush normally runs abotu double the cost of a GW brush, but non-kolinsky sable of better quality than GW is about 1/2 the price.

One factor, GW brushes are around the same price regardless of the size of the brush, brushes from an art store vary considerably, getting very expensive for large brushes. (so the Tank Brush is a fairly good deal for example, I couldn't get an equivolent cheaper from the art store I looked in).

Citadel paint (12ml): $3.50
Vallejo paint (17ml): $2.75

Unfortunately they don't have an equivolent for foundations and the new washes.

GW gaming board: $290
Zuzzy 4x6 gaming mat: $53 (granted this mat is much lighter, already tinted and textured, and takes up less space but it is a mat not rigid plastic squares so you'll need a table [oh wait, you need a table for the GW boards too])

These are completley different products and no direct comparison can be drawn.

I could continue with the comparisons but I think that, gentle reader, you get the point. So the question is: why does anyone buy anything other than miniatures from GW?

Their cities of death buildings are very nice.
Some products have no direct equivolent (realm of battle, foundation paints, new washes).
Sometimes it's just easier, or you can't find the object elsewhere (EG one hobby store I went to didn't even know what a razor saw was, even through I had bought one there a few years previously. Well OK, 10 years previously. I tried four different hobby shops never able to find one and gladly picked up the GW one when it was released. Of course a week later I found a model railroad sroe which sold razor saws at half the price, oh well..)

olympia wrote: So the question is: why does anyone buy anything other than miniatures from GW?

I think there are a few different factors...

GW touts their hobby tools as excellent quality. A lot of people don't think to question that claim, bought GW stuff when they started out, and have no basis for comparison having never used anything else. So they just continue to buy what they're familiar with.

Convenience. If people have a GW nearby, and no other hobby store or hardware store as close, it's easier to just buy everything from the one place. Even for those shopping online, a lot of GW eSellers only stock the GW tools. As do most of the LGS's that I've been into over the years.

Not knowing where else to look. A lot of people simply don't realise that most of the hobby tools sold by GW are available from other manufacturers and available for a quarter of the price from most hardware stores.

There's also a certain elitism in it. Being able to say you bought that ridiculously expensive tape measure when everyone else around you stayed clear of it because they couldn't justify spending that much on it.

Another advantage of rouge trader stores.

Crazy_Carnifex wrote:Another advantage of rouge trader stores.

Yeah, GW's rouge is decidedly sub-par, and far too expensive. I get all of my make-up from independants...

olympia wrote:Citadel paint (12ml): $3.50
Vallejo paint (17ml): $2.75

Coat 'd Arms (18ml) $2.50 (original GW colors and all, with a military color line of paints)

Sadly, their only US seller, Brookhurst Hobbies, is no longer carrying them. But I bought a bunch for $1 a bottle

I still have GW paints in the round or hexagonal bottles that haven't dried up 10 years later. I hope someone else sells Coat d'Arms in the US.

You have to remember, its little Timmy who GW is trying to lure into their game store, and have mom or dad plunk down for the minis, rules, supplies, etc. Little Timmy is too young to know the difference between a GW brush and a Kolinsky, and the parents have less than zero idea what any of it is. They're more than happy to get what they need (one stop shop) and get out of the store post-haste (while remembering that they can drop Timmy off whenever at the mall to have GW babysit for them)

Its more likely the "vets" who would hunt around for better deals, check out the DIY stores and train stores, and generally look beyond the GW offerings.

insaniak wrote:
Their cities of death buildings are very nice.

Gotta agree there, though I'm also very impressed with the pegasus ruined gothic building. It's $18.75 at the war store, rather than gw's $20. It comes with essentially two ruined corners, to I think only one for the gw version. Honestly I think that the GW version is MUCH nicer over all.
http://www.thewarstore.com/product24397.html

insaniak wrote:

olympia wrote: So the question is: why does anyone buy anything other than miniatures from GW?

GW touts their hobby tools as excellent quality. A lot of people don't think to question that claim, bought GW stuff when they started out, and have no basis for comparison having never used anything else. So they just continue to buy what they're familiar with.

And it's really not that bad. I've heard few people quible about their quality, it's always the prices.

Its even better when you work in a hobby shop that stocks both GW and other compaines tools.
We keep the other tools (xacto, zona, etc..) 2 isles away (roughly 15 feet) from the GW stuff.

Every week I have to reorder the GW tools and the other tools don't get restocked as often.

Incase you're wondering if people ask I steer them towards the xacto tools.

olympia wrote:Citadel brush (widely condemned as sh*te): $8.00
High quality(e.g. Kolinsky) brush from art supplies store: $6.00

Citadel paint (12ml): $3.50
Vallejo paint (17ml): $2.75

GW Chaos Black Spray Paint (400ml): $15
Armory Primer (12oz/354ml): $5.99

GW gaming board: $290
Zuzzy 4x6 gaming mat: $53 (granted this mat is much lighter, already tinted and textured, and takes up less space but it is a mat not rigid plastic squares so you'll need a table [oh wait, you need a table for the GW boards too])

One point. GW is not the manufacturer of most of these products. They're a middleman. The more hands it has to pass through to get to the consumer, the more it's going to cost.

Cruentus wrote:Coat 'd Arms (18ml) $2.50 (original GW colors and all, with a military color line of paints)

Sadly, their only US seller, Brookhurst Hobbies, is no longer carrying them. But I bought a bunch for $1 a bottle

I still have GW paints in the round or hexagonal bottles that haven't dried up 10 years later. I hope someone else sells Coat d'Arms in the US.

Actually it's $3.25 for an 18ml bottle of Coat d'Arms paint from the US distributor, Scale Creep Miniatures (located in Cincinnati OH).

Neat. I'll need to see if I can get an order in for some.

First I'll check at the FLGS. Last I checked, the shop had switched to a nasty black primer
that I didn't like.

Give the Duplicolor Black Sandable Primer a try. It should be available at a local auto parts store. It's what Allison McVey swears by and I use it as well.

The point about GW is if you are little Jimmy or his mother you just go in, pick up a tool set, a paint set, a couple of cans of primer and you are fully kitted out for modelling.

Yes, the quality/price ratio is not as good as buying all the stuff elsewhere but you are paying for convenience.

My local computer store sells air in a can. It's just a can of propellant, basically. Used to blow dust off circuitry. It costs more than GW undercoat.

Kilkrazy wrote:The point about GW is if you are little Jimmy or his mother you just go in, pick up a tool set, a paint set, a couple of cans of primer and you are fully kitted out for modelling.

Yes, the quality/price ratio is not as good as buying all the stuff elsewhere but you are paying for convenience.

Ofc. you are not paying for convenience, the other brands are usually if not on the same shelf very close by(unless shopping in one of their own stores) and also brings everything you need in pretty much the same way so that would be equally convenient. But people are buying GW miniatures and so figures that one thing goes with another and have ho idea about other brands so they buy GW products and GW milks them for what they are worth. Its obscene esp. compared to the pricing of other equal or better products but its the same in most markets. If you check up on things you will end up better off then if you spontaneously just get whatever.

You are paying for convenience in the UK. There are few modelling or wargaming shops around. They are usually in remote suburbs. They often don't have the full range of tools and paints. Other stuff like PVA glue or car primer, you need to go to an edge of town DIY store for.

I buy some stuff at GW, some at model shops, some at art shops, and a lot online (no-one stocks a full range of Plastruct.)

The difference is I can walk into GW and buy everything I need right off the shelf, except rare earth magnets.

But it's expensive.

Kilkrazy wrote:The point about GW is if you are little Jimmy or his mother you just go in, pick up a tool set, a paint set, a couple of cans of primer and you are fully kitted out for modelling.

Yes, the quality/price ratio is not as good as buying all the stuff elsewhere but you are paying for convenience.

This, I think is the key point. The little jimmy's mother angle is often overlooked on the internets, because we are all older than little jimmy, and more clued up that his mum / dad.

So Jimmy goes to his friend's house to play, they place space men and jimmy comes home to middle class mummy and says "Mummy i want space men for christmas". So mummy goes to the space men store and says to the red shirt (or blue sweatshirt these days). My jimmy wants space men, what does he need. The staffer then sells her a box of space men, a starter paint set and some glue. Later on jimmy gets fed up of the green cloth on the table, so mummy comes back and buys a convenient gaming table and some plastic trees / buildings.

A lot of the latest stuff really is about convenience. Mummy isn't going to want to traipse around town to model shops, shopping around for knives, glue, brushes and other crap. She has to meet her friends for coffee, so if it's in one (admittedly slightly nerdy) emporium, she isn't going a) know or b) care that it's over the odds price wise.

I truly beleive that 75% of GW releases and marketing are aimed at 12-16 yr olds, with parents with decent disposable income.

olympia wrote: So the question is: why does anyone buy anything other than miniatures from GW?

Well... I don't.
Paint occasionally, but that's because I care.

If you are in the Uk, and therefore dont need to worry about shipping costs too much I now recommend:

http://www.giftsforgeeks.org.uk/

There are other shops almost as cheap:

http://www.miniaturesbypost.com/

The price of periferals for me is unimportant. I either buy cheaper elsewhere, or pay the premium for convenience.

FOr me the issue is the ludicrous price of metals in particular.

GW charge (for example) £6.85 for a Moria Goblin Shaman (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/armySubUnitCats.jsp?catId=cat1290142&rootCatGameStyle=#). Nearly seven quid for a single goblin model! That is ludicrous.

Now, Hasslefree charge around £2.50 to £3 for an individual Goblin (http://www.hasslefreeminiatures.co.uk/range.php?range_id=36&subcat_id=41)

Now, its ludicrous that a relatively large organisation like GW will charge virtually double what a little 3-person company like Hasslefree do for a similarly sized model.

Hasslefree's sculpts and mouldings are no worse than GW's (often a darn sight better!) and they face much higher raw materials and distribution costs per item than the larger company do, although of course GW have higher overheads.

I really see no virtue in buying GW's metals, and if I can avoid it I do now. I haven't bought a new GW metal for 3 years.

Is GW's IP really worth their premium? Really? And I could say the same for Privateer Press and other companies like the producers of Anima Tactics who charge often £8, £9 for an individual model. Silly, silly, silly!

Stuff I've bought from GW recently (not including figures.)

Some paints, a saw, another saw after I busted the first one. A vice, a pin vice and a set of files.

Knife, clippers, some brushes, plastic sheet, cement, putty and some paints from a model shop.

Primer was lying around from a few years ago, originally it came from a DIY superstore.

Disposable nail files (very useful item!) came from Boots.

Some more brushes and acrylic media came from an art supply shop.

I used the Internet to get a jeweller's saw and blades, and a bunch of Plastruct materials.

This illustrates my point. I could have bought everything or its equivalent in the GW shop except the Plastruct materials.

I got a wider selection, better quality and cheaper prices by shopping around, though it took me a lot of hassle and several weeks.

If you don't like it, don't buy it. Problem solved. Next "tough" issue?

Yes, 'cause that's such an effective argument there Frazz. :S

I wasn't aware you graduated from the Warseer Academy of Logical Debate...

BYE

Frazzled wrote:If you don't like it, don't buy it. Problem solved. Next "tough" issue?

Obviously I don't buy it but I'm all about raising awareness Frazzled. I'm sorry this seems to taste like urine in your tea.