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Do you still play "normal" 40k?

For me thats a no. I think since Apoc was first introduced, I've played about 3 "normal" games. It just seems like every time I play, it always ends up becoming a multiplayer apoc game. I still build codex legal lists and 1500 or 2000 pt armies, but it just always ends up being Apocalypse games. And I don't mind at all, cuz it's hella fun.

How about you?

I haven't play Apoc yet, but I'm got a negative bias towards large games. I also haven't had any real opportunies to play Apoc, I'd definitely give it a whirl if somebody else suggested it.

Actually, when Apoc came out, I was thinking that I would never play normal 40k again, but up to this point, I had only one Apoc game.
There are always new rules and want to try them out in a normal game first. I'm also not very satisfied with how a bunch of my army looks and I only want to play an Apoc game that looks really good.

I played a few games of APOC when it first came out. Most of the games turned into a cluster&#*$ so we stopped playing it. BFG's can be fun, but you really need someone moderating it so it doesn't get out of hand.

That being said, there is an APOC game tomorrow that I'm playing in...

Ozymandias, King of Kings

I've played a healthy mix. I play with my buddy in a lot of 1 on 1 apocolypse games, and they're a ton of fun. We both have large collections, so it's fun to be able to play 6k on 6k, with decent rules to support it.

I have not played in anything bigger than a 2 on 2, however. I can't imagine having too much fun in a situation like that.

Honestly, I think I play "normal" 40k almost entirely for tournament prep or to try out wacky new armies, and apocolypse whenever possible for fun.

I've only played one Apoc game.

I guess I like the smaller, tactical scope of the original 40k. That, and I hate wasting money on something (I.E. - Titan) that I can't field in every game.

I guess the only time I would honestly play Apocalypse again is to field my Word Bearers together with Chaos Cultists (As Counts-As Imperial Guard) and maybe throw some Chaos Daemons in with any of my CSM armies (Because I miss being able to use them in normal games)

I decided never to use chaos in a normal game again because of the crappy new Chaos Dex.

Anung Un Rama wrote:I decided never to use chaos in a normal game again because of the crappy new Chaos Dex.

hell yeah. Toss in some Siege of Vraks and Chaos Demons too, while you are at it.

Meh...I still like Chaos enough to put up with the new codex (Though it completely destroys any purpose whatsoever in having a Word Bearers army). Even if it's just because I enjoy painting and modeling them more than anything else, and they have some friggin sweet fluff.

I'm willing to wait two years or so until GW finally sees how badly they screwed me over.

EDIT: On a more on-topic note, I think that GW should definetly get to work on an Apoc-style ruleset for WHFB. Now that I might actually play.

Anybody play Apoc with a horde army? I might be more interested if I wasn't moving 200+ models that are just cannon fodder for a $400 BFG toting titan....

I've also got all my old Space Marine/Epic stuff, so the idea of Apoc is a bit less appealing because of that as well....

I've played Apoc with my nids and guard.. the nids were a pain because I had too many gaunts and most of the time my side was almsot done shooting by the time I was finally done moving everything. The next game I did was more of a godzilla army

Most of the apoc games I've done are usually 8-10 players.. you team up and you focus on playing the guy across from you, not everyone else. If you have a basilisk you don't run all over the place screaming "Where do I put my template??", so you end up playing a 1 on 1 game, but you still have a team to work with and if you need support you ask for it, or provide it when you can. It does need a moderator though, someone to keep things under control.. but it can be great fun.

I'd still be happy to play more normal games, but just for whatever reason it seems I'm always playing apocalypse instead and the games have always been a whole lot of fun.

As far as I'm concerned, Apocalypse is just GW catching up with how I already want to play 40K.
the missions
the force organization charts
Mass your armies and kill, let the scenario sort itself out. I've played some really big battles where the story that unfolded would not have been half as interesting if the players had been bound to a lot of micromanagement. If you want a skirmish game, there are still kill team and combat patrol rules.
If you only want to play games that are practice for the next tournament, whatever....

If I wanted to play a game that big, I'd probably play epic.

Apoc is something we organise. We organised a massive week-and-a-half long event at the start of the year that culminated in three Apoc games over three days. Many months of prep went into that, with me building terrain the day before we started!!!

We haven't touched Apoc since then, and have been playing normal games (50/50 40K/BattleTech). This coming weekend we're playing a bunch of normal games.

Apoc will just have to wait for next year, as by then my friend's Ork army will be mostly done and the Stompa will be out.

BYE

Chrysaor686 wrote:...tactical scope of the original 40k.

Never ceases to amuse me.


Apoc is a far better game. The only 5th ed. 40k I have played since it hit the shelves has been in Apoc games. To be fair, though, I am at work on the 40k night at my local store.



Ghidorah

I prefer 'normal' 40K I like it when you're constrained by the points limit to make tactical choices, as opposed to having one of everything to deal with whatever the enemy has.

I was a little put off APOC as when it was started they just had random match ups which were never that fun. Having now played a couple of really nice Apoc games and i'm a little more positive.

But in the end I prefer the smaller 1.5K games with missions.

I pretty much only do tournaments. I'm not a fan of big battles. They are unbalanced and dull and it just feels like a waste of time. When a game is so unbalanced that you can usually determine the winner before even rolling dice then I'm not interested.

~Logic

Logic wrote:I pretty much only do tournaments. I'm not a fan of big battles. They are unbalanced and dull and it just feels like a waste of time. When a game is so unbalanced that you can usually determine the winner before even rolling dice then I'm not interested.

~Logic

Have you actually PLAYED Apoc, or are you just going by your 3v3@3k each games from 4th ed? "Big games" and Apoc are two very different entities.

Apoc was SPECIFICALLY written with humungous games in the tens-of-thousands of points in mind. Apoc doesn't work when you try to bring normal point armies to the game. Example, 5 on 5 with everyone bringing 2k. It's not meant for various 2k point armies to play. Apoc is meant for HUGE amounts of throwaway units. When I lose an entire Banshee squad from my 6k Apoc list, it is FAR less crippling than if I lost that same unit with a mere 1500-2k list in an "Apoc" game.

My advice is this:
If you're not feeling it, you're not doing it right.



Ghidorah

When apocolypse came out I was totally stoked and even built a Big Mek stompa. But since then have only played it 3 times in mega battles at my LGS. Time is the reason for the lack of playing. I usually don't have 5-8 hrs to play one having a family and all. And if I do, I would rather play a couple regular games. Don't get me wrong, I had fun playing those games at the store. It's the time thing.

I've played 2 non-Apoc games since Apoc game out. Partly it's a time thing, mostly it's the fact that I love big team games. I had joined a league this past month or so and got bored of the regular games, so I just waited for the Apoc game I'm playing today(same Apoc game as Ozy, actually.)

In my area we have been doin apoc about once a month. It's a whoever can come deal. I think it's great fun at a max of about three guys aside with each having 3-5k.

I played a 12 per side game that blew big time. It was bad because the "moderator" was playing on one side. You can guess which side got the win.

Chrysaor686 wrote:Meh...I still like Chaos enough to put up with the new codex (Though it completely destroys any purpose whatsoever in having a Word Bearers army). Even if it's just because I enjoy painting and modeling them more than anything else, and they have some friggin sweet fluff.

I'm willing to wait two years or so until GW finally sees how badly they screwed me over.

EDIT: On a more on-topic note, I think that GW should definetly get to work on an Apoc-style ruleset for WHFB. Now that I might actually play.

I hear ya my fellow Word Bearer Commander...

Chrysa: Wasn't that "Legendary Battles?"

Snce 5th came out, I've played more Apoc than ordinary 40k. I'm happy with it.

Ghidorah wrote:[ave you actually PLAYED Apoc, or are you just going by your 3v3@3k each games from 4th ed? "Big games" and Apoc are two very different entities.

Apoc was SPECIFICALLY written with humungous games in the tens-of-thousands of points in mind. Apoc doesn't work when you try to bring normal point armies to the game. Example, 5 on 5 with everyone bringing 2k. It's not meant for various 2k point armies to play. Apoc is meant for HUGE amounts of throwaway units. When I lose an entire Banshee squad from my 6k Apoc list, it is FAR less crippling than if I lost that same unit with a mere 1500-2k list in an "Apoc" game.

My advice is this:
If you're not feeling it, you're not doing it right.

IMO, Apoc provides almost nothing that gamers haven't been doing for years in their own megabattles. Game length a problem? Set a time limit or have a GM! Uhh...thanks.

I've tried Apoc, and IMO it's not terribly interesting beyond "ooo, that's a big template/titan/creature/unit of XXX" unless it's meticulously controlled by the GM. And even then it seems filled with gross imbalances and void of any tactical play. Plus 8-hour games of 40K bore the pi$$ outta me. I had a lot of fun with CoD...Apoc just doesn't interest me.

I agree with Malfred...if I wanted that kind of scale, Epic is an excellent system.

One of the first games I've played(today btw ) was an Apoc battle. I didn't dislike it. I mean, it didn't turn me off of the game and I had to have my teammates help me out a bit. That said, we had to hold objective points on the map, and my team lacked transportation and the communication necessary to really hold ground, again, not a turn off but really just an isolated that you may or may not run in to. In my early newbie days I can look at the Apoc battle with wide eyes and hope that once I spread my wings and become a seasoned vet, Apoc's fun factor will increase for me.

Tournament play for me, so regular games I guess.

Meh...I still like Chaos enough to put up with the new codex (Though it completely destroys any purpose whatsoever in having a Word Bearers army). Even if it's just because I enjoy painting and modeling them more than anything else, and they have some friggin sweet fluff.

Yes, and exactly for reasons of the "sweet fluff" I refuse to play a Chaos army which only consists of guys in servo-armor. I want real demons and I want traitor guard or at least cultists.

And Zombies. Because I play Nurgle

Ghidorah wrote:

Logic wrote:I pretty much only do tournaments. I'm not a fan of big battles. They are unbalanced and dull and it just feels like a waste of time. When a game is so unbalanced that you can usually determine the winner before even rolling dice then I'm not interested.

~Logic

Have you actually PLAYED Apoc, or are you just going by your 3v3@3k each games from 4th ed? "Big games" and Apoc are two very different entities.

Apoc was SPECIFICALLY written with humungous games in the tens-of-thousands of points in mind. Apoc doesn't work when you try to bring normal point armies to the game. Example, 5 on 5 with everyone bringing 2k. It's not meant for various 2k point armies to play. Apoc is meant for HUGE amounts of throwaway units. When I lose an entire Banshee squad from my 6k Apoc list, it is FAR less crippling than if I lost that same unit with a mere 1500-2k list in an "Apoc" game.

My advice is this:
If you're not feeling it, you're not doing it right.


Ghidorah

Yes, I've played various Apocalypse games. From small (3,000 to 15,000 per side) all the way to massive store games of tens of thousands of points per side. The games are extremely unbalanced. The side with the most "cool stuff" like vortex missiles and crazy strategems always wins. Bring some awesome super heavies and beat down the side that doesn't have as many. There are ways to counter that, but I'm just speaking from a general rule of thumb.

As has already been stated, Apocalypse is fun for the "wow, cool giant template thing" perspective. But it's long, dull, and completely unbalanced. I just don't like it.

~Logic

Logic wrote:Yes, I've played various Apocalypse games. From small (3,000 to 15,000 per side) all the way to massive store games of tens of thousands of points per side. The games are extremely unbalanced. The side with the most "cool stuff" like vortex missiles and crazy strategems always wins. Bring some awesome super heavies and beat down the side that doesn't have as many. There are ways to counter that, but I'm just speaking from a general rule of thumb.

Then I'm going to side with Ghidorah here:

You're not doing it right.


Our first game of Apoc was exactly what you've described. Everyone designed insane lists, and he with the best Strategems (in this instance, Flank March) won. Almost as soon as the game finished did we realise what the problem was:

We were trying to play Apocalypse competativley, treating it like a tournament game with no limits attached to it. That's not the way to play Apoc. That does lead to whoever has the biggest toys wins I have 8 Super-Heavies and 30 Russes I can throw on the table, plus about 40 other tanks if need be, another of my friends has 12 Falcons, 12 Wave Serpents and 2 Revenants - together our forces were unstoppable. But you know what? That's no fun.

Every Apoc game we've played since has been a highly structured affair. Not as far as lists go, the 'no limits' thing still applies (other than points limits), but we make Apoc about the scenario, about telling a huge story. When we ran our Apoc event back in Jan this year, it was 3 games over 3 days. The first game was about 15,000 points total. The second game was about 30,000 points and the third probably saw us using about 10-20K each. It was huge. But did we bring killer lists designed to smash everything? No. We brought lists that fit with the story. One game we played was 15,000 of Guard, 15,000 or Eldar vs 30,000 of Chaos. I brought a unit of 30 Priests, just 'cause I could. I brought 60 Storm Troopers in Chimeras. All utterly useless units. It didn't matter - it was there to fit with a story.

And that's how Apoc works.

You can't play it competativley, as it comes down to who can spend the most money. It actually must be played as GW describes it, as a friendly, and dare I say it casual style of play. If you play it like you would a regular game of 40K, then no one is going to enjoy themselves (and that's the reason why GW store Apoc events will always suck, as everyone will just show up with the most powerful units).

BYE