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The other day I wondered into my local GW store on my lunch break. Now this is my local store and Im well known there by all staff and most of the regulars. Im used to being greated on a first name basis and I normally have many long chats about the hobby or life in general with the staffers whom I generally make an effort to get to know.

This time however the stores new manager was there and this was the first time we had ever met. As I perused the cabniet he wondered over and said "Hello Sir, how can I help you."

Now I was immediately taken aback by this, Sir? When someone calls me Sir its normally because im being brown nosed because somone wants to pursuade me to by a TV or ungrade my phone contract, in fact when somone calls me Sir I generally go on the defensive and distrust their motives.

As a result I muttered "just browsing" and wandered off. I was shocked at even myself afterwards as this was my standard reflex action when being asked this question when in Dixons or PC world or almost any store other than a GW.

In GW when a staffer approaches me I generally expect a friendly conversation, on equal terms, with a fellow hobbist. In fact I generally find I respond better to this (in terms of wanting to buy stuff) as Im more likley to influenced by my peers than by a salesman.

Now Im an ex GW staffer myself, never in a million years would I have dreamt of calling somone Sir. One of the "10 Commandments" of being a staffer was to 'establish a rapport with a customer' personally I couldn’t see how its possible to estabish a rapport when your not talking to the cutomer as an equal.

I'm not saying I wants to be called 'mate' by a new staffer but a simple friendly "Hey there" or "Hi, hows its going" is fine and is more likley to get a friendly response out of me. I just think 'Sir' gives out the wrong message and makes me feel like Ive wandered into just another shop.

Someone in a sales position called you sir and you're upset?

Really?

Really really?

What would you prefer he call you on his first EVER encounter with you?

Relax, he did nothing wrong. He was doing his job and was trying to be respectful. There's no need for you to blow it out of proportion.

Definitely respectful. Don't be so sensitive. GW Staff should be considered beneath you.

Respectful...definitely respectful.

Part and parcel of establishing a rapport with someone is the gaining of their trust, not just assuming it. You start off addressing them as Sir or Madam, as it is a default level of politeness. Most are happy to offer you their preferred salutation (call me Ross, for example) but some prefer to maintain the purely courteous one, which is fine.

A rapport does not need to be buddy-buddy, as just understanding the needs and expectations of your client. When I worked for them, the nightmare was when a Granny or somesuch came in, and told you 'he plays Orcs' Well then, thats one in three chance of flogging summat useful. What we often did, was offer the phone so they could phone someone more in the know (Parent) who can give a bit more. Rapport established, trust earnt!

A simple "Hello There" or Hi, hows it going?" is fine.

I dont beleive GW staff are beneath me, I consider them fellow hobbists. Ones who unfortunatly earn minumum wage. Like I said Im an ex-staffer and one of the biggest annoyances were the hobbyists with superiority complexes.

A freindly greeting will get a freindly response. Grovel to me and I'll back off and back off quickly.

Perhaps its just me but I do generaly respond better to a 'buddy-buddy' aproach.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

A rapport does not need to be buddy-buddy, as just understanding the needs and expectations of your client. When I worked for them, the nightmare was when a Granny or somesuch came in, and told you 'he plays Orcs' Well then, thats one in three chance of flogging summat useful. What we often did, was offer the phone so they could phone someone more in the know (Parent) who can give a bit more. Rapport established, trust earnt!

Actually MD I can totaly see what you mean in this situation and I do admit a more formal attitude is appropriate when dealing with a parents as opposed to hobbyist.

Maybe thats it's, I suppose now Ive finally reached 30 im at the age where I could be a hobbyist or I could just be buying 'Space Rangers' for my young son (not that I have kids) and the manager was just hedging his bets. Still it made me feel old :(

LuciusAR wrote:

Like I said Im an ex-staffer and one of the biggest annoyances were the hobbyists with superiority complexes.

How is he supposed to know this?

He used the most common greeting one employs when trying to show respect to the customer. You know, so the customer does this weird thing called "buying stuff"?

Stop being so sensitive and get over it already. This really didn't warrant a post on Dakka, or anywhere for that matter.

Growing up in the southern US, it's a reflex for me to call anyone older then me "sir" or "ma'am" when meeting them. Especially in a sales situation.

It's just being respectful.

I suspect that if you had introduced yourself, and told him you were an ex-staffer yourself, the "sir" would have disappeared quickly. And he'd probably remember you better the next time you came into the store and greet you by name (which you indicate you prefer).

Whereas in Britain, the term Ma'am (with a drawn out, soft a, rather as is warm) is reserved only for the nobility! MAdam is the appropriate greeting over here.

And it's our bloody language, which means I'm afraid you are in the wrong...

Sir was more than adequate. As someone said, it is a universal approach and one you should not take offense to. To state it simply, you need to relax. That is unless you are a woman who expects him to know your thoughts and read your mind. 99% of other people wouldn't even think twice about this. How do you expect someone you have never met to know exactly how you want to be greated?

If you want a buddy-buddy approach - go see a used car salesman. Ultimately, you should have far bigger things to worry about.

Inquisitor_Malice wrote:Sir was more than adequate. As someone said, it is a universal approach and one you should not take offense to. To state it simply, you need to relax. That is unless you are a woman who expects him to know your thoughts and read your mind. 99% of other people wouldn't even think twice about this. How do you expect someone you have never met to know exactly how you want to be greated?

If you want a buddy-buddy approach - go see a used car salesman. Ultimately, you should have far bigger things to worry about.

Methinks if the OP was a woman, being called sir would be the only justifiable reason for all the rage in his post.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Whereas in Britain, the term Ma'am (with a drawn out, soft a, rather as is warm) is reserved only for the nobility! MAdam is the appropriate greeting over here.

You call a woman "Madam" over here and you'll probably get slapped in the face because she'll think you think she's the owner of a brothel. YMMV in the north

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:And it's our bloody language, which means I'm afraid you are in the wrong...

Luckily for us, we kicked you out a couple hundred years ago (with the help of France and a whole sh*tload of other things which had nothing to do with the American colonies ) and as a result we get to butcher the language as much as we want.

How old are you? If you are 20-something, annoying. Although note I am not a brit, simply a humble hardworking Canadian lad. If you are 30 or so you must be doing something right.

I don't like being called sir because it is stained with a thin slick of class oil over here and we like to think we're all equal.

I only get really annoyed when I ask them to stop calling me sir and they respond with 'we've been told to say it.'

It also goes to that Brit fear of falseness, if a woman behind the counter wishes you a good day, she has to mean it, dammitall, and that's unlikely if you're the 500th person she's said it too or she's on automatic mode.

Neither is wrong. What you're used to, I guess.

'Sir' is a customary greeting given to people who you are giving any sort of service to. You'll find it everywhere with manners.

Definately respectful.

~sA

Heh heh. No one ever calls me sir. I reckon it's uncommon over here. I'd take it in my stride if they did though.
Generally we don't attach any honorific to greetings or questions. Instead of "Can I help you, sir?" it's just "Can I help you?"
Unless you're dealing with a traveller of course. Then it's "Howsagoin' Boss? Canna help ya, Boss?"

My local GW (Southampton and Winchester) staff give you a friendly "hello" and "what are you in for today?", before going back to their pet project at the painting table. No hassling and the option of conversation if you want it. Just the way it should be.

@budro - You may have won the war, but who won all the battles?

LuciusAR wrote:

Now Im an ex GW staffer myself, never in a million years would I have dreamt of calling somone Sir. One of the "10 Commandments" of being a staffer was to 'establish a rapport with a customer' personally I couldn’t see how its possible to estabish a rapport when your not talking to the cutomer as an equal.

I'm not saying I wants to be called 'mate' by a new staffer but a simple friendly "Hey there" or "Hi, hows its going" is fine and is more likley to get a friendly response out of me. I just think 'Sir' gives out the wrong message and makes me feel like Ive wandered into just another shop.

Lucious, perhaps it's different in the UK but (prior GW staff US here) we were always told to use Sir or Ma'am when adressing someone for the first time here in the US. Of course, as soon as possible, we'd ask their name and give them ours (even though it was prominantly displayed on the name badge). I was under the impression that Sir was reserved for those who had achieved knighthood and considered very honorable in the UK. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I think you are being a bit supersensitive.

Building rapport, as someone mentioned isn't just making friends, it's also finding the needs and interests of the hobbyist (you) and in the process of doing so, one can usually build a relationship of mutual trust, you trust the staffer not to pester you everyday with all the new goodies, and the staffer trusts you not to get bent outa shape when he forgets your name.. (sorry, couldn't resist).. Remember as a former staffer, you should know how difficult it is to be in his shoes, trying hard to make sure everyone is being helped.. Don't be that beligerant customer that used to work there and expects everyone to know how to do it, but doesn't bother to tell anyone what he really wants.

A simple, "hey mate, thanks for offering, my name is ______, I'd prefer if you don't call me sir, it makes me uncomfortable. " would go a long way to help the staffer and you build rapport. it would also break the ice and get you and the staff on a mutually friendly encounter.

You're moaning and whining about someone being respectful to you.

Sir or ma'am is polite. If you have an aversion to sir, please follow the following script:

"Oh, please don't call me "sir". My name is _____. What's your name?"

It's a salesman's job to be polite and courteous so you feel comfortable enough to buy stuff. I forget the comedian who said it, but here goes:

"Ladies, if we say something that can be taken in two ways, one of them offensive, the other not, WE MEANT THE OTHER WAY!"

Just substitue "Customers" for "Ladies" in this case.

Disrespectfull? I'd quite like it if they said Sir at the end of every sentence, in a childish cockney accent preferably.

Back when I used to play magic my play group and I used to call everyone we played 'sir'. This both at times annoyed our opponents and kept them slightly off guard. Calling a 12 year old kid sir the entire game will seem odd to him. We also called people 'champ' to mess with them when they tried to make plays. It's a very good tactic.

I've started doing it in 40k as well and it's mainly to annoy. So yes I feel that calling someone 'sir' is annoying. But then again I call a lot of people at work sir until they tell me to call them something different.

Maybe you should tell him to call you Champ next time you come.

And @ budro, I have to deal with that southern sentiment too. Being raised down here for better or worse has warped me a little. When I worked in retail they told me to use my southern accent. I find myself doing it at my job now too, but those people don't really know what's going on. Probably comforting if I use the accent and vernacular.

To quote Staff Sergeant Register, "Don't call me sir, I work for a living."

Sir, 'Sir' is a subservient word surviving from the surly days in old Serbia, when certain serfs, too ignorant to remember their lord's names, yet too servile to blaspheme them, circumvented the situation by surrogating the subservient word, sir, by which I now belatedly address a certain senior cirriped, who correctly surmised that I was syrupy enough to say sir after every word I said, sir.

Ok there seems to have been a bit of a misunderstanding here, I'm not moaning or whinging about being called Sir. It was just an observation really. Mainly due to the fact that I pnoticed that I reacted differently to being called Sir then I would have done from a more informal greeting.

In my case I noticed that my reaction was largely negative. As one of the earlier posters says maybe it is class thing. I detest snooty middle class wannabees who treat shop assistants as dirt so perhaps I see the 2 as being connected. I was really just wondering if others thought the same as me. I'm not in anyway making a complaint and I'm sure that as I get to know the new manager we'll end up on a first name basis.

I have to agree with those who think the OP was being a wee bit over-sensitive, though I can understand why.

The person meant it in a respectful manner - because he doesn't 'know' you like the rest of the staff 'knows' you (at least not at the point it happened). It's quite common, especially in a retail environment, to begin with 'sir/ma'am', and then move onto a first-name basis when the customer signals/indicates that it's ok to do so. In retail, you and the customer are not 'equals' in a business-sense: the customer has something the retailer wants (money), while the retailer might have something the customer wants. The business is there to serve the customer, not the other way around.

After a stint in the military, and then 10 or so years in retail myself, I still use the title in everyday life without even really thinking about it - hell, I even call the guy at the McDonald's counter "sir", and the cashier at Wal-Mart "ma'am". In my opinion, it's more of a simple show of polite respect, rather than an indication of rank or title.

Just my 2 coppers, tho.

I'm with Mort completely. I did six years in the military as an officer and I habitually address people as sir. I think it's a sign of respect until I know their name.

Bunker wrote:Methinks if the OP was a woman, being called sir would be the only justifiable reason for all the rage in his post.

LOL - so true.

I can actually really understand your situation Lucius, on two levels.

The first is that I have issues with sales people. Not that I think they are bad human beings; I used to be one for a bit, at RadioShack where they require you to go up and help people and sell them things because you work on commission, no less. Part of it is that I am not entirely comfortable pretending to be interested in talking with people, and often times just want them to leave me alone so I can find I what I am looking for and go home. My problem, not theirs at all.
However, there is a nice, polite way of doing the helpful sales associate thing, and then there is the irritating puppy pawing at your leg king of way, and unfortunately most pick the latter method. I have to admit that I have had the "I am fine, please go away" sort of response hardwired into me pretty strongly, and I find any sort of standard sales conversation off putting unless I have steeled myself for the interaction ahead of time.

The second, and probably much more interesting, reason is psychological. You said you had a very friendly, and in most cases personal relationship with the staffers. So much so that they are not staffers, but friends to you. However, this fellow, instead of treating you like you were buddies, treated you like just another customer.
The reason you were bothered is because of something called "disaffirmation." Essentially you were expecting a level of rapport or closeness of relationship, and he was treating you with what seemed to you an "arm's length" sort of manner. Since you were expecting a very different sort of treatment, you got yanked into a different sort of interaction, and it threw you off balance.

For a similar case, imagine if your girlfriend/boyfriend suddenly started acting like someone at work you are not close with. Perfectly polite and respectful, but distant and not inclined to grab your butt when you are bent over in the fridge or something. It would creep you out and make you think something was really wrong.
Alternately, imagine the waitress at a restaurant giving you a peck on the cheek along with your check. Even assuming your girlfriend wasn't there to get pissed with you, it would be a wierd sort of thing, even though it might not be if you were really close friends.

Once they know you, they'll know what to call you.

It's like when some people greet each other, and the first words out of their
mouths as they hug are "Mother !!!"

Sometimes you wanna go where everybody knows your name...

Being from the Southern USA, I consider it disrespectful if someone doesn't say it(unless it's a casual acquaintance).