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Ok, I haven't played 40k in years (played maybe 2-3 4th edition games) and am considering getting back into it.


I want to make a WW1 German stormtrooper army, mostly because I've picked out some affordable and interesting substitutes for DKK/SL. The army will have very few vehicles, focusing mostly on heavily-armed infantry, heavy weapons, and some arty.


Renegade WW1 Late War Germans w/gas mask ---> Infantry Platoons
West Wind Secrets of the Third Reich Grenadiers ---> Stormtroopers/Grenadiers

Weapons & Accessories from West Wind, The Assault Group, and maybe Pig Iron.

Zhengdefu aka Kitech 1/48 Marders will be Chimera stand-ins.

No Ogryns, Rough Riders, Sentinels, or Ratlings (although I may make human snipers). Hellhounds, Salamanders, and Centaurs might have a place if I can find suitable stand-ins for them.

I've been looking at the various IG rumor threads and it seems that the new codex is going to be aimed more at a tank/mech IG force. I know that IG infantry are already terrible in the assault. Is it highly unlikely to make a decently-competitive army (not for tourneys, at most for not getting crushed at the FLGS's) focused on human infantry? Are hardened vets and stormtroopers backed by pie plate spam just not enough?

The fun of a game for me is writing whichever list I want, and then finding out how to win with it.

I say do it. Helluva project though. Lots of models to build, ridiculous amounts of painting, but a rewarding site.

To me, it's more about the spectacle of the game than the winning!

i like the all infantry list however having said that it will be hard to decide until i see the new codex. it sounds like there are a lot of cool tanks coming out.

You're pretty much looking at Death Korps of Krieg. Or maybe Valhallans with headswaps. Either way, it's a cool army idea.

However, I'd suggest against the RL models in 40k. They break theme too heavily.

OTOH, if you want to model your Chimeras after the German A7V tanks, that would be pretty cool.

Wait a few months till the new IG dex comes out.

JohnHwangDD wrote:However, I'd suggest against the RL models in 40k. They break theme too heavily.

It's mostly a cost-cutting measure. This is not only a themed army, but a budget army too. There's just no way I'm throwing down the cash for a REAL Death Korps army, and the Bretonnian Men-at-Arms conversion route sounds really time-consuming. A Kitech Marder (my biggest "theme breaker" concern) is about $5-15 vs a real Chimera's $28 through the War Store. Even after spending £8.00 on brass-etched Imperial Eagles (and enough for the whole motor pool at that) it's still a massive bargain.

Renegade WW1 Germans are £25 for 30, which comes out to $1.43 each at current rates. That compares to $1.40 for Cadians and a whopping $4.75 for FW Death Korps. I'm trying to come up with a way to "stamp" little golden Imperial Eagles on the front of the Stahlhelms so I won't have to hand-paint them on.

OTOH, if you want to model your Chimeras after the German A7V tanks, that would be pretty cool.

That's a good idea, but most of the A7V models I've found are either crap, expensive, or both.

Augustus wrote:Wait a few months till the new IG dex comes out

Yeah, I think in the mean-time I'll paint a few test figures (I have some Steel Legion and 25mm WW2 lying around) and maybe pick up a Marder to start converting as a proof-of-concept, before I plunge in whole hog.

Heh Heh. GO for the all infantry. That what my Guard are now. Just be preapared to take away bucketloads of guardsmen.

Arran

If you're planning on doing infantry, and want to use plastic Cadians, get them now rather than in May. They come 20 to a box, as opposed to 10 for 2/3rds the price.

BYE

Regarding the "real world" models...

I've got some of the Secrets of the Third Reich models, since I'm starting to look into them.

The Grenadiers could easily be used as Guardsmen, the hands are wacky sized and everything!

H.B.M.C. wrote:If you're planning on doing infantry, and want to use plastic Cadians, get them now rather than in May. They come 20 to a box, as opposed to 10 for 2/3rds the price.

BYE

Except they come with a Heavy Weapon, which is good.

But hey, god forbid the whole picture is shown.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:If you're planning on doing infantry, and want to use plastic Cadians, get them now rather than in May. They come 20 to a box, as opposed to 10 for 2/3rds the price.

BYE

Except they come with a Heavy Weapon, which is good.

But hey, god forbid the whole picture is shown.

oh snap...

the new guard dex will ultimately decide whether your idea is good or not.

20 Cadian Shocktroops - £18.
1 Cadian Shocktroop Heavy Weapon Team - £8.

Thus, to get your 2 complete squads, with 4 Guardsmen left over, currently costs £34.

Come May, that'll be £24, saving £10. Sure, you won't get the additional Heavy Weapons (which combined with the 4 spare Cadians would give 2 additional weapon teams with just a minimum of Conversion).

So not actually a rip off at all. Just in case HBMC was wondering.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Except they come with a Heavy Weapon, which is good.

That depends entirely on which Heavy Weapon is included.

True enough. My guess is something fairly ubiquitous.

Then again, look at the Ork Boyz. That set includes both options open to them, namely Rokkit Launcha and an 'Eavy Shoota.

Although I doubt the full spread of Heavy Weapons would be included, I wouldn't be at all surprised if there are options of some description, though any more than this would be pure speculation.

And if the spare Guardsmen are that important, you can always procure the £5 two piece Guard. Mixed into your infantry they will be largely indistinguishable, and you can use the multiparts to create additional Heavy Weapon teams....

My guess: ML and (maybe) Mortar, because they're smaller than the rest.

Or, going on the sculpts from the Weapon Team Boxed set, perhaps Heavy Bolter, Autocannon and Lascannon.

Mainly because these three offer a good variety of offensive capabilities and all share the tripod.

Of course, counter that, the Mortar and Missile Launcher share the Bipod.

So yeah, I reckon one of the two above, simply going on shared components!

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:20 Cadian Shocktroops - £18.
1 Cadian Shocktroop Heavy Weapon Team - £8.

Thus, to get your 2 complete squads, with 4 Guardsmen left over, currently costs £34.

Come May, that'll be £24, saving £10. Sure, you won't get the additional Heavy Weapons (which combined with the 4 spare Cadians would give 2 additional weapon teams with just a minimum of Conversion).

So not actually a rip off at all. Just in case HBMC was wondering.

@MDG: Those 3 options won't be in the box - if they were there, there wouldn't be any need to buy the HWS boxed set. The ML and Mortar are less optimal, so they'll be included.

Have you learned nothing from GW?!?

Stuff optimal.

Mortars are awesome weapons in the right setting, yet not terribly common outside of that setting (Apocalypse it's kind of hard to miss, and in Cityfight, they are bloody useful for clearing buildings, at least, more so than Missile Launchers) Oh, having double checked the rules as well, they will be piss funny when taking on Lootas. For purposes of Cover Saves, Barrages count as coming from the direction of the centre of the Blast Marker. Have an entire Heavy Platoon with them (also damned useful against Hordes of Boyz!) and see how quick those T4, 6+ save 15 point goons fall! And you don't even have to see them. Though doing so aids somewhat in accuracy of course. A favoured trick of mine from 2nd Edition (and not just my own I must say. Loads of people seemed to like this one) was to back them up with a Griffon. Lots of death from above didn't see that coming did you splatty death!

And how can a Missile Launcher fail to be this optimal thing? Capable of threatening ANYTHING in the gam...why wouldn't you want a few in your army?

And the Heavy Weapon Boxed Set (though perhaps not the individual teams) will still be required for putting together luvverly Heavy Platoons!

BUT, as I mentioned earlier, all this is pure speculation at the moment. Perhaps semi educated guesswork, but guesswork non the less.

The ML is a jack-of-all trades, and the Mortar is the most situational.

Erk! Just edited my original post with additional plus points of Mortars. Combine that with the other one I just remembered, the loss of Partials, and Mortars are rather tasty these days, compared to Frag Missiles!

And they are pinning.

Nooo! Now I want a Barrage Army O'Doom!

In fact, when it comes to Cover saves, given a little luck on the Scatter (well, 1 in 3 chance of landing where you want isn't that shabby really) you can do some pretty effective clearing of Nids, Orks, Grots etc from cover, ready for your Lads to move in and set up shop instead.

Noble713 - I'm going to ignore the nonsense above me and restate what I said before to help you, and maybe I'll be a bit more clear this time.

If you're starting an infantry army you will need - and this won't come as a surprise to you - lots of infantry. Now, having loads of special and heavy weapons is great, and I'm sure whatever the new box has will be fantastic for buying squads in discreet units, but at the end of the day you will needs loads and loads of infantry.

The best way to get lots of infantry and to save your bank account is to buy a few boxes of Cadians (assuming you're using Cadians - if not you can completely ignore me) while they still have 20 men per box. When the new box comes out, whatever it ends up being, the chances are the cost will be slightly higher (2/3rds the price for 1/2 the contents). So, in order to save money, and have a good bulk of Lasgunners for conversions and mixing and matching with the abundance of bits you get from other kits, the 20-man boxes are a good bet.

BYE

ML's are excellent right now. They are the weapon you want against Orks, for a start. There's very few things a Lascannon does better (Yeah it kills tanks better but it's still not very good at it), and the little template is very useful.

My plan is Missile Launchers on every line squad backed up by Mortar teams. So hopefully there's a missile launcher on the sprue!

It's also the only weapon that could potentially let GW dual-purpose the team to be equippable with Lasguns if someone doesn't want a heavy weapon..

Except it's not half the contents, as I pointed out. At all. In the least.

It contains more for a good saving. Just checked the price of the individual Weapons Teams. £10 for 1 Heavy Team.

So to wind up with 20 Guardsmen now, with Heavy Weapons, will cost you £38. Or £24 in a couple of months time.

Which is better value? I mean, I know it's only a trifling £14 your are saving, but still.

Grotsnik, as someone who purports themselves as a major advocate for the Games Workshop 'hobby', you sure are being quite obtuse in this matter.

They will be more expensive. You will get less men. Yes, the new box will/might have a heavy weapon team, but that's not actually a good reason to hold off.

As I have said now twice, in an army of infantry, you need Infantry - a real shock I know - and to have an army of infantry, you need to buy lots of - you gussed it - infantry! And what's the best way to buy infantry? In large quantities for the best price possible!

You say that buying 20 guys and 3 HW teams will leave you with spare models. This is where the 'Hobby' comes in. There's no such thing as 'spare' models. Depending on how good you are with a knife and a pair of clippers, and with enough extra Guardsmen, you can make 9-12 heavy weapon teams out of a single box of 3 (sans bases).

The last time I bought a box of 20 Guardsmen and a box of 3 HW teams I made up two complete squads, four heavy weapon teams, four more Flamers and still had a whole HW sprue I didn't touch. The only extra models I bought were a pair of metal plasma gunners.

And that's the thing:

You don't need to buy a box that contains 10 guys with a heavy weapon team because you can do the same thing using the current models and get more bang for your buck, plus, assuming you enjoy that sort of thing, you can spend a little time being clever with conversions and mixing and matching parts. All this rather than waiting a few months and paying 2/3rds the cost for 1/2 the models - something that is especially bad when you're chief aim is to have LOADS of infantry.

So go on Grotsnik, tell me that I'm completely wrong again.

BYE

But you don't get more bang for your buck.

COming soon, 10 Guardsmen including Special Weapon, Sarge and Heavy Weapon for £12.

Currently available, 20 Guard, as above but sans Heavy Weapon for £18.

In order to get the same contents, you need to buy 2 Heavy Weapon Sets, priced as I mentioned at £10 a pop.

Now, you are of course right that you wind up with additional models which can be converted slightly to make up additonal Weapon Teams and Command Squads.

I can do the same using the forthcoming set, plus a £5 box of Plugkit Guard...5 Lasguns for £5.

So, to get the same amount of Guardsmen, including conversion fodder, will cost £29, as opposed to the current price of £38. Saving £9.

And 5 Guardsmen, assuming one can squeak out additional Command Weapons, make up a Command Squad.

Thus, holding off is cheaper.

Why are you buying single HW team boxes when you can buy 3 in a single box? It's cheaper that way. Almost 20% cheaper here in Oz to do that.

A box of 20 Guardsmen + a box of 3 Heavy Weapons gives you enough men for a minimum sized Platoon. And you'll still have 1 Guardsman spare to.

Do that three times and you've got enough models for two 35-man Platoons, 2 Platoon Command Sections and a CHQ and three extra guys to convert into whatever you want (make your own Medic/Standard Bearer, etc.).

Again, use your Hobby Powers and see what you can do with imagination, rather than waiting for a more expensive pre-packaged alternative.

BYE

Or you can wait for the clearly better value rebox, and get three squads for less than two.

And still not have a legal troops choice.

That's £54 pounds for those 3 10-man Squads. For £57 you could get 20 Cadians, 3 Heavy Teams and your wonderful all-in-one squad. You'd have the same three squads, but for £3 more you'd have a Command Squad + a spare model for conversion/whatever purposes. That's less than your $5 plug-in box and you have more conversion potential.

So, again:

It is cheaper to buy Guardsmen now than it will be later. Once you have a bulk of basic Guardsmen, they can be supplimented with the kits that are coming out this year. But as far as saving money goes... well how can you pass up an extra 6 models for only £3 more??? That's a great deal, and makes your Troops choice legal.


But well done Grotsnik. You've done an admirable job of attempting to argue that more expensive boxes with more in them is somehow cheaper in the long-run when buying some now and some later gets you more for less. Excellent job though. The personal attacks in my inbox were even better. Brilliant stuff.

BYE