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A google search on "Games Workshop aggressive sales" brought me to this forum. I read a previous post at:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/218603.page

From what I saw, MeanGreenStompa got flamed a lot for complaining about his in-store experience. This is unfortunate, since it seems to mirror my own experiences.

I started playing WH40K back in '97 when I was living in the UK. The sales staff at the time was pretty aggressive, but I was younger and had plenty of disposable income, so I let it slide.

I'm now starting to get back into the hobby, and my two recent experiences (at two different US stores) have reminded me of the aggressive/annoying sales tactics used in all of the GW stores I have ever visited (UK and US). One poster mentioned a "script" that sales reps seem to follow. This is so true, lol, and represents my experiences almost exactly. It did miss the lines where they ask your name and tell you theirs though, and how they use your name in almost every sentence. Their techniques certainly don't engender any trust in me, which seems counter-productive to selling me something.

I understand the drive to push sales, which is why I do my best to tollerate it, but its certainly not effective on me. As a poster stated, its more likely to push me out of the store without making a purchase. Aggressive sales techniques are not effective on everyone, especially more mature players who are probably married /w kids (and on a tighter budget). Those of us in that demographic probably know what we're getting before we come into the store. In my case, I do all of my research beforehand. When I look around the store now, I'm not looking for what I'm going to buy today - I already know that - I'm looking for inspiration for what I'd like to buy the *next* time I'm in. I also like to see the other painted models and terrain so I can get ideas or inspiration.

Another problem, for me, is that I only have so much time to look around, and its frustrating to have to waste much of that time dealing with a pushy sales rep. So, that said, I have to ask, how can I best communicate my situation to the local sales reps to help them understand my needs (or lack of needs)? I'm happy to chat about local events and about the game (painting, modeling, etc.), but I'd appreciate a more laid back demeanor. Anything else is going to be counter-productive for them and detract from my in-store experience.

*ducks into cover* (Damn, doesn't help against flamers)


-D

Just say to him 'I appreciate the help, but I'd rather just look on my own thank you'

No need nor indeed call to be rude, balshy or snide with them.

Another good tactic is to involve them in a different conversation. Break them from the script.

Exactly.

Everyone hasn't had the same bad experience as you and MeanGreenStompa, so we're not defending GW just saying what happened to us.

If I go to a shop and the staff start on me I say I've just come in to look at paints or something. They pretty much know me now at the local GW so I don't ever get the sales spiel any more.

Once the staff know you are a vet and know what you want, they will not bother you.

The best and most entertaining way to deal with pushy salespeople is to completely and utterly ignore them. Just go and get what you want and make a beeline to the counter, not making eye contact, but not trying to seem like you're trying to avoid eye contact. While at the checkout, if the pushy salesperson makes a point of forcing you into conversation, give them the NCIS Mark Harmon stare. It works, and it's okay to burst into hysterical laughter the moment you get out the door. I've never used it at a GW store because they'll NEVER open one in Kansas City, but I used to go into mall stores, wander aimlessly with a sales geek following me, trying to engage me in conversation until I finally broke down and purchased some little impulse buy thing from off of the counter. Try it, you'll like it!

Kilkrazy wrote:Once the staff know you are a vet and know what you want, they will not bother you.

Right, I do recall that now when I was living in the UK, I was in the store all the time and they eased up on the pushiness. I even worked on creating a unique/conversion eldar squad, and they were all very supportive.

Unfortunately, I wont be able to reach that status with the store(s) here. They're pretty far from my house, so I wont be able to get out there that often. I think I'll try Mad Dok's advice. That seems pretty polite and to the point. I wouldn't say I'm a vet yet. I'm familiar with the older versions, and have only started reading through 5th edition books.

I've got the Blackreach box, and am going in half with a friend. He's going to get one too and we'll split the armies and build from there. I was looking at adding some anti-infantry heavy weapons, but they kinda talked me out of the devestator squad at the store, lol. Then I thought maybe a jet pack squad might work, but they said those weren't as good an objective with the objective-based approach of 5e. Unfortuneately, I got there late and they were closing, so I didn't get to pick anything up.

I'm hoping to get back this weekend or so and buy one box to augment my Blackreach (x2 eventually, so I don't need more Tac Marines and so on). Any suggestions of what would be good to add vs. orks? Or should I get a command squad, apothocary, chaplain, etc?

I primarily plan to play with my friend only, since I'm introducing him to the game and we're getting into it together. Our work and family schedules probably wont afford much store playing time, and we both want get a few games together before we jump into it with experienced players. For now we're still putting together the models, painting, and working on some terrain stuff (all of which I have a lot of experience with).

I actually find reading Dakka rumors to be one of the best weapons in your arsenal to deal with annoying GW red/blackshirts. Typically, the average Dakka reader is more informed about what is going on with future releases than your average red/blackshirt. Ask them about X upcoming thing. Once they realize that you're more hardcore than they are, they'll leave you alone.

I haven't been in an actual GW store (there isn't one anywhere nearby) for about 8 years, back when I lived in Maryland.

Some of the sales reps back then were a bit over the top - one guy even charged me for a White Dwarf - that I didn't ask for.

IIRC it went something like:

Me:"Uh...what are you doing?

Red Shirt:"Oh, do you already have this issue?"

Me:"No...but I wasn't going to buy it."

Red Shirt:"Well...You really have to have it."

Me:"Well, can I borrow $8 then?"

Red Shirt: "....."

It got to where I walked in reciting the mantra of :
"No thanks - just looking. Not interested. No thanks. That's great, but I don't need it."

GW do seem very forceful, i went in for the first time in a long time to buy Malekith for my DE lot and the guy spent 15 mins following me around showing me 40k (which i didn't play at the time and wasn't intrested in at all) he also added a beginners paintbrush set to my model and was about to charge me for it when i complained. he said he assumed i needed it since i was still playing fantasy *cheeky*
they just follow me round like a shop lifter when i go in now.

The regular shirts at my store know me now and are just friendly. Those who don't now me it's quite fun to give them the 'double glazing treatement'. It may still waste time but give me a quiet chuckle.
shirt - how are you, what are you in for etc
me - just looking
shirt - do you play any of the games
me - Warhammer, 40K, lotrs, necromunda, spacehulk, gorkamorka, blood bowl, epic, bfg, modrhiem, warmaster....you?
shirt - er, just some, so what do you collect
me - ad mech
shirt........(akward silence) so, what have you ooking for?
me - tell him about latest crazy idea, then ask what he would suggest, then turn down every suggestion (I've already got the bits, half made the project, and have come in for something very specific.

Also amusing to add in akward silences for a few seconds and then turn back to a shelf without finishing the sentence. Also great as it's the new guys who pounce on you first and then they feel pretty dumb when the regular staff pop over for a real chat.

Have also had an instance where I answered the questions one ahead just before they were asked - proof if any that they do use a script! The poor guy looked so confused while he tried to work out if he had asked the question or whether I had volunteered the infop. jsut before he asked for it. Give it a try! next time you're in pay attention to what order your asked things and pop back acouple of weeks later with the answers ready!

I started again in December, since when I have been to Oxford Street GW 6-7 times, GW Covent Garden 2-3 times, GW Bluewater twice. I've not had a single salesperson (Blueshirts here) push a sale on me. Even when I played an intro game of Black Reach, they didn't try to sell me anything. They have politely asked a few times "Anything else I can help you with?" and I think once they asked if I needed any painting supplies when I was buying some models, but that is basic courtesy as much as anything. The greeting as you come into the store is obviously a management directive as they say hello to everyone and ask if they need help, even if they are obviously just browsing, but I've never seen them push it when they get told "just browsing".

They do try to encourge me a LOT to come to the late opening store evenings for games etc. It seems the drive here is to pull you into the hobby long term, not make short term sales at the cost of alienating people.

Obviously you've had your experiences, and I'm not disputing them, but it is not a universal GW thing. Just overzealous staff or local managers, maybe.

I wonder if there is a noticeable difference between UK and US.

Roze wrote:
they just follow me round like a shop lifter when i go in now.

Nah, that´s because you are a Chromosome s: X ap: X type and the Red Shirts don´t get a cover save against that

M.

haha well i'll remember that next time i do need help.

Don´t go too hard on them, their ld is not much to begin with.

M.

I don't have any problems at my local GW except for that rare random new guy that they have hired that the older red shirts like to embarass by making him hit up people they know will make him look a little silly. Everyone gets a chuckle and the new guy learns not to be so damned scripted. Seems to work since they are doing rather well.

Well it is always amusing to give the staff a bit of guff, but do keep in mind they are just doing their job. I think GW gives them a bit too much drive in their new employee training.

I had an amusing episode with one once. I went into a store to just look around and waste some time when one overzealous red shirt jumped on me. So I figured it would be interesting to just be mute. So we held a brief conversation with him talking and me just pantomiming. Eventually he got a bit uncomfortable with it all and left me alone. It was rather interesting to see just how much of my side of the conversation I could hold up like that.

Be Frank, Be Honest, and Don't be a JACKASS>.

No, really, tell him that you know what and while you appreciate his candor, you will ask for his help if you really need it..

Simple, honest and blunt.

there is a simple solution
if they come over and try pushing you towards buying something, tell them you know what you want.

if they still dont get the hint, ignore them.

then if they still dont get the hint, use them as a shopping basket.
simply get them to carry the stuff for you.

Oh hell, if I got to the counter and he started charging me for crap I didn't want I think I'd go ballistic. They'd probably never want me back in the store, and I'd sure as hell never go back in willingly.

Either that or I'd just leave all my crap on the counter and leave without saying a word, and then go buy it online for less money.

simply get them to carry the stuff for you.

LOL! Gotta keep an eye on them though, make sure they don't grab a battleforce when you aren't looking.

As someone else who is irritated by pushiness in any form, I have found that the best thing really is to become a "regular". By which I mean you don't have to spend loads of time at the store, but if you pop by every couple of weeks and buy the odd pot of paint and a brush, it gives the staff a chance to get past the "formula" and treat you as a human as once they've seen you a few times they'll recognise you and know you aren't a n00b. Also if it really bugs you it is best to avoid going to the store on Saturdays. Key-timers are in on Saturdays and often they're new and won't recognise you, so will resort to "the script" by default. Also they tend to be less experienced and less certain how to treat customers properly. To be honest on Saturdays its best to avoid GW stores anyhow as they're generally full of screaming kids!

These days I find popping into the Metro Centre store a pleasure as I just get a friendly greeting and if any staff are free to chat its a pleasant experience about mutually interesting subjects - such as my latest project or the latest release - rather than an artificial one forced by a script.

Maybe I've mellowed with age as well, and am a lot more forgiving of youngsters learning what for many of them is their first job. Back when I was in my first job a couple of decades back I dropped a few clangers in front of clients and wasn't hanged for it (including losing a £40,000 forklift truck!), so I can put up with the odd over-enthusiastic Tigger from time to time in return now I'm a grumpy old client myself!

If you really get trapped by some unfortunate chap who insists on being a pain in the butt I've found that being honest is best and a simple "I'm just after some <insert product here> thanks, and then I must be off. I'll just have a quick squint at that lovely <insert flash new model in display case here>" works nicely most of the time. And to be brutally honest, it is my experience that if there is anyone that awkward about the job then they probably won't last for very long. Either they'll learn how to do it properly or they'll quit/get sacked. Or move on naturally to employment they are more suited to.

There's no need to be rude as the poor so-and-so is just trying his best to do his job and hasn't learned the hard way yet, so if he's following his script and its all a bit embarrassing and awkward and wasting my time, I stick to mine!

Dargon wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:Once the staff know you are a vet and know what you want, they will not bother you.

Right, I do recall that now when I was living in the UK, I was in the store all the time and they eased up on the pushiness. I even worked on creating a unique/conversion eldar squad, and they were all very supportive.

Unfortunately, I wont be able to reach that status with the store(s) here. They're pretty far from my house, so I wont be able to get out there that often. I think I'll try Mad Dok's advice. That seems pretty polite and to the point. I wouldn't say I'm a vet yet. I'm familiar with the older versions, and have only started reading through 5th edition books.

I've got the Blackreach box, and am going in half with a friend. He's going to get one too and we'll split the armies and build from there. I was looking at adding some anti-infantry heavy weapons, but they kinda talked me out of the devestator squad at the store, lol. Then I thought maybe a jet pack squad might work, but they said those weren't as good an objective with the objective-based approach of 5e. Unfortuneately, I got there late and they were closing, so I didn't get to pick anything up.

I'm hoping to get back this weekend or so and buy one box to augment my Blackreach (x2 eventually, so I don't need more Tac Marines and so on). Any suggestions of what would be good to add vs. orks? Or should I get a command squad, apothocary, chaplain, etc?

I'm not qualified to give you tactical advice. I do know that if you buy a Devastator box, you can use spare Tactical Marines bodies with the heavy weapon backpacks and weapons. I'm not sure if it works with the AoBR figures though.

Have a look in the Articles, Army Lists and Tactica forums for more help with unit selections.

warpcrafter said:

Just go and get what you want and make a beeline to the counter, not making eye contact, but not trying to seem like you're trying to avoid eye contact

"Keep your distance... but don't look like you're keeping your distance. I don't know, fly casual."

Kilkrazy wrote:They pretty much know me now at the local GW so I don't ever get the sales spiel any more.

Once the staff know you are a vet and know what you want, they will not bother you.

The problem with this is that they seem to have such a turnover in staff I see new faces every time I go in.

I prefer to buy independently now anyway, support the local shop.

I haen't been in a GW for a few months, but the past two times I went there I walked out of there with every Marine Scout box they had on the shelf. They don't tend to ask me questions because it's not the first time I've done something like that (I once went in and just bought a Deathguard army on a whim one day - everyone just kinda stared at me in stunned silence as I went around the store pulling boxes and blisters off of shelves without saying a word).

BYE

I did that once with Salamanders. They get freaked out if you have more than 7 boxes of one thing.

I have only once been into a Games Workshop store --- I usually shop online or at independents. The guy asked what army I played, I responded Sisters. He avoided me from that point on, until I came to the counter with some boxes.

All you have to do is to tell them that you are just looking.

They can do what they want. Your there because you want something, or you are there to lok. As most of the stores don't really have alot, it won't take too long.

These guys are working for thier jobs. It's a sort of a job hazard not to ask if you need help, or make an attempt at a sales pitch. It isn't something to get indepth about, its in thier training to sell the hobby.

Just get to know them, and after your in there a couple of days in a row, and showing your unit/ army in the shop, you'll be one of the old guys before you know it, and you can watch as they do the sales thing to other people.


The "Pushy sales thing" isn't really something to get wrapped around the axle about. You're bottom line in going to a GW store is to play the game, buy some guys, or paints, and talk a little shop about some of the upcoming things. tournies, models, Dakka, etc.

When you hang around with them enough, you are eventually going to see tha dark side of working for the GW shop, and will see first hand that that so called "Dream Job" easily can turn evil if they arn't getting the sales.

Don't sweat them, too much. There are some gold nuggets in the chaff working amonst the masses.

If you are open and honest, it doesn't take long for them to figure out not to fool around with you. The best salesman for them is a satisfied customer.

"No thanks, I'm good. If I need you, I'll let you know."

just as a foot note when the guy tryed to charge me for the paint brush set i ranted and left i didnt get the Malekith i had actully went in for, and on principal i didnt go back for him either. i got my first 40K things from there but i called and had them to put them behind the counter before i went in to the store, not going in there without a primed gamer with me no more

Hello Dargon, welcome to Dakka, I hope you enjoy the forum and sorry to hear of your experience.

Well, since all that happened to me, I've learnt a few things:

*GW products can be found considerably cheaper on the web.

*I have about 12 friends over the age of 25 playing that I can arrange games with at home.

*I can use any model not in the GW range, should I like it and it be a moderately suitable replacement in my own home and at friends houses.

*We can drink and eat (abbot ale n bombay badboys ftw) whilst playing and listening to good music.

*I obtain all my news, rumours and discussion about the game from the web, far in advance of the information in the store.

I think most importantly I was blurring two issues in my post you linked, firstly the annoyance I had with the particular individual and second, GW's general hard sell tactic. The first issue, well I've spoken with others and it seems he just doesn't know how to communicate with older gamers, others were far more scathing than me, the last time I was there, we did talk for a while and it was ok, I just kept steering him away from things that would unsettle his equilibrium. The second issue, I have now accepted the stores are designed to showcase and hook much younger players and potential players, they are who the sales pitch is aimed at, I do not fit the target customer and the in-house training is obviously inflexible.

So I don't have a lot to go into a store for unless it's an emergency purchase gift, much to mine and (probably) their relief.

As to the 'flames' and condescending tone of some of the replies from the thread I started, it proved a very easy method of identifying numbnuts and pontificators on the forum early in my experience on the Dakka site, I used the lesson learnt...