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If the suits are still BS3, I'm gonna be a sad panda.

After seeing the firewarrior stats, I'm a sad panda. What are my dudes I2?

Coyote81 wrote:
After seeing the firewarrior stats, I'm a sad panda. What are my dudes I2?

They've always been I2. To be honest, I'm surprised Cadre Fireblades' stats are so good. If cheap, they look like a near auto-include for Fire Warrior units, mitigating their main weakness (Leadership 7) while buffing their main strength (shooting the hell out of people) and providing strong personal combat stats as well. Split Fire to shoot a BS5 markerlight at a separate target while your Fire Warriors pump out 24 strength 5 shots at long range or 36 up close? Yes, please.

Thats the kind of stuff I was hoping we didn't get, I don't want a few auto include units and watch the rest of the units get shoved in the closet for 8 more years. I really hope all the HQs are competitive.

 Kingsley wrote:
Split Fire to shoot a BS5 markerlight at a separate target while your Fire Warriors pump out 24 strength 5 shots at long range or 36 up close? Yes, please.

Or, split fire off an Icarus Lascannon / Quad Gun.

I think suits should be bs4 at least. I am fine with bs3 firewarriors but suits feel like they could have a tracker or something that makes them as good of a shot as a space marine. I LOVE markerlights, so I am kinda happy about the bs3 because that will force us to take them. I just wish that pathfinders were troops to help support the bigger guns. It is going to be hard to decide between pathfinders and the new flyers. But the thing that upsets me the most about tau stats is the leadership. I can't tell you how many games I have lost our stupidly low leadership. Kill one drone in a broadside team and watch 200pts run off the table. Kill three t3 4+armor firewarriors and watch them flee the objective. I just really wish we could get ld8 standard and ld9 and ld10 on leaders like just about every other army.

I wish they would allow us to overwatch at full bs instead of the squads in 6'' rule. It sounds overpowered but it would only kill like 2 marines before they got murdered in CC and tau could never be the aggressor it would just make player think twice before assaulting.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kingsley wrote:

Coyote81 wrote:
After seeing the firewarrior stats, I'm a sad panda. What are my dudes I2?

They've always been I2. To be honest, I'm surprised Cadre Fireblades' stats are so good. If cheap, they look like a near auto-include for Fire Warrior units, mitigating their main weakness (Leadership 7) while buffing their main strength (shooting the hell out of people) and providing strong personal combat stats as well. Split Fire to shoot a BS5 markerlight at a separate target while your Fire Warriors pump out 24 strength 5 shots at long range or 36 up close? Yes, please.

Considering the Cadre Fireblades' are $20 each I think GW will make them cheap enough to take with every firewarrior unit.

 Kingsley wrote:

Coyote81 wrote:
After seeing the firewarrior stats, I'm a sad panda. What are my dudes I2?

They've always been I2. To be honest, I'm surprised Cadre Fireblades' stats are so good. If cheap, they look like a near auto-include for Fire Warrior units, mitigating their main weakness (Leadership 7) while buffing their main strength (shooting the hell out of people) and providing strong personal combat stats as well. Split Fire to shoot a BS5 markerlight at a separate target while your Fire Warriors pump out 24 strength 5 shots at long range or 36 up close? Yes, please.

Cadre fire blades are hq choice though........potentially limiting other options ....

 lambsandlions wrote:

I wish they would allow us to overwatch at full bs instead of the squads in 6'' rule. It sounds overpowered but it would only kill like 2 marines before they got murdered in CC and tau could never be the aggressor it would just make player think twice before assaulting.

Marines would be alright, but its game over Tyranids at that point.

 lambsandlions wrote:

I wish they would allow us to overwatch at full bs instead of the squads in 6'' rule. It sounds overpowered but it would only kill like 2 marines before they got murdered in CC and tau could never be the aggressor it would just make player think twice before assaulting.

haha ^^
the only thing worse than assaulting a Tau gunline is standing there and NOT assaulting it

Depending on the exact mechanics the overwatch from nearby units could be a double edged sword

Attack with a sacrafical unit to draw fire from multiple units, then they can be attacked by more important (or more overwatch vunerable) units without having to face any fire

 mh_mini wrote:

Unfortunately it appears that d-pods are only going to give +1 coversave. And knowing GW it's not gonna be 5pts anymore. Probly closer to 10-20.

Decoy launchers will probably become useful again, though.

Personally I hope that new Codex will revive Mont'ka style of play. Gunline you can already play with old Codex. That aspect needs little improvement as it is.

Fireblade stats are kinda strange. It appears to have Shas'o like statline, but just Ld9?

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
Depending on the exact mechanics the overwatch from nearby units could be a double edged sword

Attack with a sacrafical unit to draw fire from multiple units, then they can be attacked by more important (or more overwatch vunerable) units without having to face any fire

IIRC, that's not exactly how overwatch works... as long as a unit isn't engaged in combat, it can still overwatch. So for example, you charge with Unit A into my lead FW unit, and e'rybody hoses into you with pulse fire, and you get one poor shmuck stuck in with that unit. Then you charge in with your more vulnerable units... and even though my lead FWs are locked in combat, their homies in the back still got their back... and are hosing you down with overwatch on the way in.

I think.

Will probably depend on how the rule is worded, of course, and if my reading of the overwatch rules is correct that you can still overwatch as long as you're not engaged in combat.

Backfire wrote:

 mh_mini wrote:

Unfortunately it appears that d-pods are only going to give +1 coversave. And knowing GW it's not gonna be 5pts anymore. Probly closer to 10-20.

Decoy launchers will probably become useful again, though.

Personally I hope that new Codex will revive Mont'ka style of play. Gunline you can already play with old Codex. That aspect needs little improvement as it is.

Fireblade stats are kinda strange. It appears to have Shas'o like statline, but just Ld9?

I have to wonder if Ethereals have been upgraded.

If Ethereals and Fireblades both give unit buffs, and if Shas'vre finally get BS4 like they should, then maybe people will start playing without Crisis Suit Commanders at all, considering they're just a Crisis Suit with a better statline.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Veskrashen wrote:

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
Depending on the exact mechanics the overwatch from nearby units could be a double edged sword

Attack with a sacrafical unit to draw fire from multiple units, then they can be attacked by more important (or more overwatch vunerable) units without having to face any fire

IIRC, that's not exactly how overwatch works... as long as a unit isn't engaged in combat, it can still overwatch. So for example, you charge with Unit A into my lead FW unit, and e'rybody hoses into you with pulse fire, and you get one poor shmuck stuck in with that unit. Then you charge in with your more vulnerable units... and even though my lead FWs are locked in combat, their homies in the back still got their back... and are hosing you down with overwatch on the way in.

I think.

Will probably depend on how the rule is worded, of course, and if my reading of the overwatch rules is correct that you can still overwatch as long as you're not engaged in combat.

I'm pretty sure units are limited to using overwatch once per turn. Even if an assault fails and the enemy remains unengaged the squad can't overwatch again. What this does is discourage death stars.

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
Depending on the exact mechanics the overwatch from nearby units could be a double edged sword

Attack with a sacrafical unit to draw fire from multiple units, then they can be attacked by more important (or more overwatch vunerable) units without having to face any fire

But that's a standard tactic even without the area overwatch rule, in fact, what you are suggesting is the opposite of a drawback for the Tau, it's an advantage, you make a sacrificial charge into the target unit to try and draw overwatch, and only the unit being charged fires at what is clearly the less important unit, then when your proper unit tries to charge afterwards, everyone nearby who is still unengaged and didn't fire at the first unit blasts them.

If they didn't have the area overwatch, you either draw overwatch with the first unit, or lock the targets, either way you remove any risk of overwatch for the second.

I thought you had to declare all your charges before any overwatch or range rolling happens, to avoid this kind of shennanigans?

Don't think you have to declare all charges and overwatch at once. Think it's one at a time.

Over in YMDC (http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/470706.page) there was a discussion on passengers in a vehicle overwatching more than one charging unit. One guy points out that the rules state that a unit being charged can only overwatch once per turn.

If we get an area overwatch rule, then even though the unit that got charged can only overwatch once per turn, the rest aren't getting charged... so there wouldn't be any such restriction on them overwatching multiple times, would there? Unless, of course, the Supporting Fire rule includes such a restriction.

Otherwise, it'd still work out like above, with multiple units hosing down multiple chargers trying to get into combat with a single unit. Kroot screening FWs with Cadre Fireblades are going to make for interesting "come at me bro" scenarios.

Rustgob wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:
Agreed on the razorback. However in recent kit releases I think GW has really put afieldable options in their boxes.

I think the last kit that I've personally had my hands on which struck me as having 'plenty of options' was the Space Marine Commander; lots of options! Still missing a couple though, I think.

When you find them, let me know where the two sets of twin-linked devourers are in my giant hive tyrant kit.

DaddyWarcrimes wrote:

Rustgob wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:
Agreed on the razorback. However in recent kit releases I think GW has really put afieldable options in their boxes.

I think the last kit that I've personally had my hands on which struck me as having 'plenty of options' was the Space Marine Commander; lots of options! Still missing a couple though, I think.

When you find them, let me know where the two sets of twin-linked devourers are in my giant hive tyrant kit.

If you read White Dwarf's Kit Bash articles, you'll see that they use the Fleshborer Hive bits from the Tyrannofex kit. :-P

Listen I know there are lots of kits where the most "effective" or "efficient" options aren't represented (or in the case of things like killa kans, you only get one set of out of 3 models), but in the long-view GW is overall getting their act together. As new kits come out, most notably necrons for me since they're one of my armies, they tend to have sprues packed full of bits so that models can be assembled in all legal conformations. I have high hopes that with the new XV88 and XV104 kits, we will have all the weapon bits ready to go (and magnetize) to fully customize our new suits.

 Jadenim wrote:
I thought you had to declare all your charges before any overwatch or range rolling happens, to avoid this kind of shennanigans?

Declare -> Overwatch? Yes/No -> Roll distance, far enough? Yes/No, If Yes -> move in

You rinse/repeat this process for every unit you wish to try to assault with. So if you overwatch the first thing coming in you can't fire again, also if you decline your overwatch and get locked in by that unit you can't overwatch the next wave.

Veskrashen wrote:
Don't think you have to declare all charges and overwatch at once. Think it's one at a time.

Over in YMDC (http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/470706.page) there was a discussion on passengers in a vehicle overwatching more than one charging unit. One guy points out that the rules state that a unit being charged can only overwatch once per turn.

If we get an area overwatch rule, then even though the unit that got charged can only overwatch once per turn, the rest aren't getting charged... so there wouldn't be any such restriction on them overwatching multiple times, would there? Unless, of course, the Supporting Fire rule includes such a restriction.

Otherwise, it'd still work out like above, with multiple units hosing down multiple chargers trying to get into combat with a single unit. Kroot screening FWs with Cadre Fireblades are going to make for interesting "come at me bro" scenarios.

Interestingly, it also stands to potentially break the game, by allowing a unit to fire mutliple supporting overwatches when friendly units are assaulted, only to be charged themselves afterwards, become a "unit being charged" and have illegally fired overwatch more than once in a turn.

I imagine even if the RAW doesn't restrict them to a single supporting overwatch per turn, any FAQ regarding the matter would.

 Drunkspleen wrote:

Veskrashen wrote:
Don't think you have to declare all charges and overwatch at once. Think it's one at a time.

Over in YMDC (http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/470706.page) there was a discussion on passengers in a vehicle overwatching more than one charging unit. One guy points out that the rules state that a unit being charged can only overwatch once per turn.

If we get an area overwatch rule, then even though the unit that got charged can only overwatch once per turn, the rest aren't getting charged... so there wouldn't be any such restriction on them overwatching multiple times, would there? Unless, of course, the Supporting Fire rule includes such a restriction.

Otherwise, it'd still work out like above, with multiple units hosing down multiple chargers trying to get into combat with a single unit. Kroot screening FWs with Cadre Fireblades are going to make for interesting "come at me bro" scenarios.

Interestingly, it also stands to potentially break the game, by allowing a unit to fire mutliple supporting overwatches when friendly units are assaulted, only to be charged themselves afterwards, become a "unit being charged" and have illegally fired overwatch more than once in a turn.

I imagine even if the RAW doesn't restrict them to a single supporting overwatch per turn, any FAQ regarding the matter would.

I could easily see the RAW written to restrict it to one per turn. Or, alternatively, a FAQ that says if they overwatched already that turn and got charged, they don't get to overwatch the unit that's charging them.

I'm pretty confident that they'll state that a unit that uses supporting fire counts as having used it's overwatch for the turn and can neither use overwatch for themselves nor use supporting fire again.

 newbis wrote:
If the suits are still BS3, I'm gonna be a sad panda.

It sounds like Multi-Trackers and Black Sun Filters might be standard equipment on all battlesuits, that means we still have space for the Targeting Array on a Fireknife or Helios. So yes, functionally BS 4 suits unless you want something like a target lock, a shield generator or some other new widget.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Coyote81 wrote:
I'm pretty confident that they'll state that a unit that uses supporting fire counts as having used it's overwatch for the turn and can neither use overwatch for themselves nor use supporting fire again.

That's a pretty common sense thing to do.


Which means it probably isn't going to happen that way.

 Ravenous D wrote:
Everything will be known next Wednesday.

What's happening next Wednesday?

 gianlucafiorentini123 wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:
Everything will be known next Wednesday.

What's happening next Wednesday?

Bunch of stuff, probably very little of it related to 40K in general or the Tau specifically.



But based on people getting WD on the Wednesday before it came out, that's likely when people will get the Tau codex before release.

 gianlucafiorentini123 wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:
Everything will be known next Wednesday.

What's happening next Wednesday?

I'd guess that's when the stores will get their copies of the new codex for sale on 06 April, which means that we'll get more rules leaks and point costs leaks at that time.

All stores GW or otherwise get their shipments on the wednesday (If the FLGs put their order in on monday this applies). They arent allowed to sell it until saturday, but if you happen to know the guys looking at it while in store wont hurt.

Phanixis wrote:

I'm confused. How has much of anything changed?

Who was running firewarriors around outside of d-fish? anyone, anyone? Hello?

*raises hand* I was. frequently had 4x squads of 6, two in DFish (reserve) and two on foot, deployed. Allowed me flexibility to reinforce where the lines got hot or send a squad deep late game for objectives.

Who didn't have pathfinders parked in cover using heavy markerlights? anyone, anyone? hello?

*raises hand* Me again. I could rarely count on my pathfinders, but if I did I forward deployed them to wherever they had the best LOS. If that meant using the DFish as a seaturtle cover in the middle of an open area, then so be it.

Who didn't have BS4 broadsides in ruins or behind and ADL? no ASS means, no move and shoot, or were others besides me walking their broadsides around? However, the new broadsides seem to have something similar to S&P so again, what change?

*raises hand yet again* The broadside rail cannons were great early game for popping difficult armor, but what happens when you can't see it? I ended up equipping mine with plasma rifles and just going to town on MEQs while still being able to move. Very VERY scary for your opponents. I hate being chained to one location anyways so I never ran an ADL.

Just because you think there is only one way to run a codex doesn't mean that is the only way to run it. I'm sure everyone is going to jump into "SPAM THIS TAU UNIT FTW" mindset so I'll just cook together a different angle of attack and people won't know how to handle it when they think all tau players use the one strategy

I recommend that the missile spam broadside be lovingly dubbed as the MMM for macross missile massacre

Anyone heard if we can still take SMS on our Devilfish? If so, and if they're S7 AP4 TL ignore cover as some of the rumors have stated, that might give us the Razorback equivalent that a lot of us have been looking for.