Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So it appears that LOTR:SB is being sidelined as WoTR is more inline with 40k and WFB.

I like WoTR but it kinda sucks to see this happen to SBG as I love the little scenarios and flexibility.

This of course means metals will be moved to direct sale only and no more sourcebooks.

Future rules in White Dwarf only.

Should of seen it coming I guess, I'm new to tabletop gaming so I find these things very surprising I guess you vets have seen lots of this before?

NOOOOO, now I got to buy these "beep" white dwarfs

and order my metal models

Where does it say this?

H.B.M.C. wrote:Where does it say this?

Well hopefully its not a tall tale but someone over at the last alliance spoke to Matt Ward directly at a games day

in this thread

http://www.thelastalliance.com/index.php?pid=view_replies&thread_id=64053&forum_id=1&page=1

Makes quite a bit of sense. Lotr has a ton of sculpts that are very redundant, (I have enough Gimli to make it's own formation). They can be kept alive in direct, and don't need to be on store shelves. Lots of the metal LOTR models have been moving to direct for the last couple of years, without anyone really noticing. WOTR uses a ton of the cheap plastic boxes, command models, and the characters you need for your army. 98% of your models will be on the shelf, and you can do a direct order for a hero or banner if needed. My shop has a lot of blisters of LOTR that don't sell even 1 in a year, yet we blow through a huge amount of the boxes and major characters. Losing a few more blisters to direct won't be noticed. And anyone that wants them, I can still get them for.

The current LOTR source books have pretty much covered everything, and even moved into ares that were touched on in the books, and not in the movie. I can't really see them doing another LOTR soucebook, but their is room for small articles in WD.

I expect that the Mines of Moria box wil stick around, as it's a great intro set. And you can still do a lot with LOTR with the portion of the range that does not move to direct.

But what about LotR 2 - The Return of Sauron?

Does this mean the LotR rules will appear on GW's website to download?

I think something good may have finally come from LotR. LotR (rules) generic fantasy skirmish game FTW?

I kinda saw this coming. I'll be happy if LotR rulebook and scenario books become free downloads.

Isn't it ironic, weird, and kinda pathetic that LotR/WotR rules appear in WD but they won't put any rules for 40k or WFB in WD?

That makes sense. They only support the systems that require purchasing a bunch of miniatures to start.

SG has gone the way of the Dodo, making it hard to believe that GW will shove SBG into that direction as well.

BrookM wrote:SG has gone the way of the Dodo, making it hard to believe that GW will shove SBG into that direction as well.

Unless they don't care if also goes the way of the Dodo. I would guess that SBG gets some more attention when the Hobbit is released. I wonder if they'll un-earth the Battle of the Five Armies game for the film, or just come out with the figs to play it in WotR scale.

WotR uses more figures, so it's only natural that it gets the bump up.

I like both sets personnally, though the WotR is real fun if you are looking to recreate the battles from the movies instead of the scenarios that focus on only a couple of models, like the battle at amon Hen and that warg skirmish from the Two Towers.

WotR is getting a current push, sure, coz GW want to sell zillions of models, but that doesn't mean it will succeed (does anyone remember Battlefleet Gothic, Epic 40K, Epic WHFB (sorry, can't remember it's name), Gorka Morka etc?)

But at least LotR and WotR share models, so the worst that can happen is that LotR players end up with an amazing array of plastic troops to fill out their games

Clang wrote:...Epic WHFB (sorry, can't remember it's name)...

Warmaster?

Or B5A / BFA...

But this is no surprise.
- LotR SBG is Necroumnda / Mordheim.
- LotR WotR is 40k / WFB.

If LotR moves to mass battle, why wouldn't the skirmish version move to SG with all of the other skirmish games?

JohnHwangDD wrote:If LotR moves to mass battle, why wouldn't the skirmish version move to SG with all of the other skirmish games?

Because the skirmish ruleset should be the lead in to the main game and (possibly) a tool for keeping the disenfranchised in "the hobby"(TM).

@J.H. Yep, GW one size fits none would apply here.

George Spiggott wrote:
The skirmish ruleset should be the lead in to the main game...

Yeah,
QFT I couldn't agree more...
For the main games you need to get to the 1000pts mark(ish) to get a true feel for the game...

Panic...

They just want you to buy more models. It's simple.

LOTRSB was an underplayed, relatively boring game. There were few real modelling opportunities due to the crapness of the kits, but the sculpting (if inconsistent in scale) was nice.

sA

this goes directly with the theory alot of people have on the usefullness of a model such as a chimera and the price/points cost relating to it.

IE: they drop the cost of the chimera to make it 55 points, utterly buff its usefullness, and now for 55 points everyone is spending 35 dollars on a trasport they used to take 1 or 2 of...and now take 5-7 of. Just a way to produce revenue, imo.

smiling Assassin wrote:They just want you to buy more models. It's simple.

LOTRSB was an underplayed, relatively boring game. There were few real modelling opportunities due to the crapness of the kits, but the sculpting (if inconsistent in scale) was nice.

sA

Boring? Really?

I love the scenario part of the game and playing out the lore. However, I can see why that isn't everyones cup of tea and wont sell boxes for GW

Carl wrote:IE: they drop the cost of the chimera to make it 55 points, utterly buff its usefullness, and now for 55 points everyone is spending 35 dollars on a trasport they used to take 1 or 2 of...and now take 5-7 of.

Except they didn't really do that.

The Chimera is cheaper than before, but not "cheap" relative to what MEQs pay. Usefulness didn't change - it's still a 12/10/10 Transport with low-grade weaponry. It's still paying a full 10-point premium for a dubiously-useful (and non-WYSIWYG) "Amphibious" Special Rule.

If GW were to pull out all of the stops, the Chimera would lose Amphibious to cost only 45 pts, *and* be buffed to 12/11/10 or 12/12/10 with full options for twin HB / Autocannon / ML / Multi-melta / Assault Cannon / Lascannon in the turret.

What GW did do was to take away most other ways to get Scoring Troops on Objective by yanking Drop Troops and Light Infantry. So if you want to get onto point, IG have few choices:
- walk across No Man's Land into the teeth of the enemy (literally),
- take some Chimeras and hope that they can roll their way across, or
- buy brand new Valkyies and fly your way in.

Given that T3 Sv5+ Guardsmen have almost no hope of walking forward against sentient fungi, giant bugs, or spiky superhumans, the Chimera / Valkyrie is something that you need to try to make work, rather than simply choosing as the best alternative.

So GW has clearly succeeded at monetizing Guard mobility, but by fiat rather than by choice.

Not to get sidelined too m uch on Chimerae but the rules change that unlocked model sales was the removal of 'all or nothing' for mechanised IG infantry. Rather than one or two Armoured fist or a whole army you can have a modest number of transports to your own fit.

Gw often hamper their own sales by the clunkiness of much of their design.

Taking this back tio War of the Ring you get a spotlight on massed plastic models and a de-emphasis on multiple copies of the same hero. The former is mostly plastic and spams out a relatively small production line, the latter sells relatively small number of models with new variants required to keep up interest.

Bear in mind that The Hobbit parts 1 and 2 are scheduled for release in the next couple of years. These films should be more along the lines of Fellowship i.e. more skirmish type scenes (Battle of Five Armies excepting), so if GW are going to tie in with these releases, the skirmish game could make a come back.

Perhaps the Hobbit will be the WotR AoBR / BfSP intro game?

I just wonder how long GW will hold onto the LotR license. Is it making GW money or is it set for a certain amount of time before it ends?

GW says that LotR sells, and they renewed the license to expand the range beyond the movies, GW has invested into mass-production plastics, along with advancing the game from scneariors to the SBG, to WotR.

Based on this, I think LotR is doing well enough to cover its costs, or at least drive down GW's overhead in a useful way.

At its height it made more money than Fantasy Warhammer at my local GW at least. It still sells quite good from what they tell me and WotR has breathed a bit of new life into the game system. The reason I like SBG is because it only cost about 100 dollars in models and paint to get a decent force. And the starter set was even more of a steal than AoBR in my opinion. Plus because you had the Fellowship it made it much much easier to create role playing skirmishs afterwards instead of just the goblin scenario over and over again.

They have already made the move on their Website. Check under specialist games.

What? B5A?