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So effectively, the Heavy bolter on Russes is effectively useless, as you cannot fire if you move, and if you stay still then you should use the BC anyway, thus preventing you from firing any other weapons. Good work GW, talk about screwing it up. S5 defensive weapons all the way!

WC_Brian wrote:


If Stelek would just post a blog about 40k I wouldn't have to think about 40k at all, I could just absorb his limitless genius.

I read his blog Bry, It made me dumber.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Move slower to gain more firepower? You lose firepower by moving, period. You stop moving - and act like a bunker (in 4+ cover naturally) - you get to fire your guns. And you can't even score now, so what incentive is there for leaving cover?
BYE

Very true. What will happen on the IG side is each tank will make maybe one move. It will be either initially moving 12 to get a better crossfire position, or when its being flushed from the pocket by that last surviving marine with a Pfist. Otherwise it will sit in cover and shoot its main gun. Predators will be slightly better, but only because they have a more defined task with slightly shorter ranged weaponry. This is what ocurred in V3 and there is no incentive for it not to occur in V5.

EDIT: So far much of V5 appears positive. My only bugaboos are this/defensive, and "true LOS." but part of the LOS issue arises depending on how its written. If its clear (aka clearer than previous editions) it could be positive, if not, it will be negative. I have NO desire to play "see I can see under your tank and hit the one guy behind which means I can hit your entire squad even though the rest is hidden in a nukeproof bunker" LOS lasertag boy. I'm way to old a bunny for that now, and if I want to play with laserpointers I'll go to the range where they are used properly.

Do people not think that owing to the somewhat wacky new scatter rules people won't always want to fire the Battle cannon/whatever ? Whilst it would be foolish to describe IG tanks as "accurate" the ability to actually shoot heavy bolters, lascannons etc at targets might well be useful than many people give it credit for currently I think.

reds8n wrote: Do people not think that owing to the somewhat wacky new scatter rules people won't always want to fire the Battle cannon/whatever ? Whilst it would be foolish to describe IG tanks as "accurate" the ability to actually shoot heavy bolters, lascannons etc at targets might well be useful than many people give it credit for currently I think.

I think that fact that people will find that then new "all models touched by the blast marker" rule mitigates the new scatter. Not that it really matters much to a LR. Before if I sat still and fired the BC, I had a 33% chance of hitting where I wanted, with an average scatter of 3" - 4". Now I will have a 33% chance of hitting with an average scatter of 4", but everything the marker touches is hit. Yeah the 9" scatters will suck (if not be outright hilarious), but I think it will still be the preferred choice.

I will likely drop my sponsons though.

Meh. I know I'm still going to be plugging away with the Ordnance weapons. 2d6-3" averages 4", which only even happens 1/3 of the time, anyways.

I think the hole in the middle has to still be on a vehicle otherwise it's half strength rule is still in there, so there will still be a use for sponsons etc.

And I wonder if the increased speed units will be moving at might well make it much riskier withr egards to hitting your own models-- even more so with the loss of partials/maybes.

Yeh, well done to all those people who were savy enough to have removeable sponsons after the last GW U turn.

I saddly am not among them.

Well at least my King Tiger versions won't feel alone anymore. Sponons, we don't need no steenking sponsons....

Sooo I was reading the rules also and on page 46 (I think) there is a rule for troops falling back being able to shoot. The wording says "troops"! Does this mean only troops can fire while falling back?

There is another odd part with the rules on the same page where it says troops... I think they ment to put "units" but RAW this means only troops can fire while falling backwards :p

reds8n wrote: Do people not think that owing to the somewhat wacky new scatter rules people won't always want to fire the Battle cannon/whatever ? Whilst it would be foolish to describe IG tanks as "accurate" the ability to actually shoot heavy bolters, lascannons etc at targets might well be useful than many people give it credit for currently I think.

Actually with the new scatter rules, IG tanks become more accurate on the move compared with 4th edition, and slightly less accurate when stationary. Since there in no penalty for scatter for moving in 5th, there's no reason for a Russ to not move if it is firing the battlecannon.

The math for scatter is at the bottom of this page:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/212568.page

Move slower to gain more firepower? You lose firepower by moving, period. You stop moving - and act like a bunker (in 4+ cover naturally) - you get to fire your guns. And you can't even score now, so what incentive is there for leaving cover?
BYE

You mean besides the fact that any unit can "contest" an objective. And you can still move and fire the Battle Cannon with no negatives.

kadun wrote:

reds8n wrote: Do people not think that owing to the somewhat wacky new scatter rules people won't always want to fire the Battle cannon/whatever ? Whilst it would be foolish to describe IG tanks as "accurate" the ability to actually shoot heavy bolters, lascannons etc at targets might well be useful than many people give it credit for currently I think.

Actually with the new scatter rules, IG tanks become more accurate on the move compared with 4th edition, and slightly less accurate when stationary. Since there in no penalty for scatter for moving in 5th, there's no reason for a Russ to not move if it is firing the battlecannon.

The math for scatter is at the bottom of this page:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/212568.page

Aside from terrain and the idea that it migt not be advisable to to move towards melta guns, basic troops with krak grenades etc anyway yes ?

Again I think the odd occassion when you get an awkward scatter and move the template either on your own men or-- and AFAIK this would be allowed in 5th edition--I believe it is possible for a shot scatter back onto the firer or even behind it is it not ?

I don't think having the option for direct applied firepower is ever going to be a bad thing.


.................... I just REALLY nerfed 6th edition with that predicition didn't I ?

Mahu wrote:You mean besides the fact that any unit can "contest" an objective. And you can still move and fire the Battle Cannon with no negatives.

And leave my 4+ cover? No thanks.

BYE

Quick question......

Do scouts get to make their scout move before game starts? More specific.....Do Ravenwing bikers get their scout moves pregame?

Answer decides if I build RW/DW army

Exactly. 4+ hull down again. I forgot about the joy of real hull down. Yes. No reason to move unless you're flushed.

You can get 4+ cover from all the chimeras that will be escorting your Russes.

Can Monstrous creatures till fire 2 weapons? Standing still or otherwise?

Thanks!

Greets
Schepp himself

Schepp himself wrote:Can Monstrous creatures till fire 2 weapons? Standing still or otherwise?

Thanks!

Greets
Schepp himself

Yes.

Godzilla army is going to great againist Tanks. Not really there doomed.

Scatter Rules are cool for Drop Guard they let you be a bit more daring.

Snipers fianlly have rending thank god.

Only after Rending got fixed thank god as well.

I like alot of it. It looks fun. Some parts are funny.

And tanks are for the win.

And Rockets cant knock tanks out (easily any more) so now I need Lascannons NOOOOO ...

grizgrin wrote:When is this thing actually due out again? 12 July, isn't it? Damn, I will be out of the country. That means I will have to wait another 5 weeks to get my copy.

That just sucks.

Is there anyway to get a SLIGHTLY early copy (say, 07 July) of this thing that I can take with me? Well, anyway to do it and NOT cause a stampede of GW attornies toward anyone's door or business?

I believe if you pre-order the gamers edition or the collectors edition you will get it a week early.. it's 90 dollars up front, but you get some nice stuff with the gamers edition.. so that might be worth the extra week no?

blinky wrote:So effectively, the Heavy bolter on Russes is effectively useless, as you cannot fire if you move, and if you stay still then you should use the BC anyway, thus preventing you from firing any other weapons. Good work GW, talk about screwing it up. S5 defensive weapons all the way!

That isn't actually any different than before - if you move you should use the battle cannon. But, don't forget the rumors that IG will get heavy stubber sponsons (or at least have that as an option) which are strength 4. Plus, it means that a single weapon destroyed doesn't make you useless.

ghostmaker wrote:Godzilla army is going to great againist Tanks. Not really there doomed.

They aren't so bad off in fact, with ap- weapons only being -1 on the chart they should work out okay. As long as they remove the glance only thing in the FAQ (which I expect they will).

ghostmaker wrote:
Scatter Rules are cool for Drop Guard they let you be a bit more daring.

Snipers fianlly have rending thank god.

Only after Rending got fixed thank god as well.

I like alot of it. It looks fun. Some parts are funny.

And tanks are for the win.

And Rockets cant knock tanks out (easily any more) so now I need Lascannons NOOOOO ...

It is very fun and much faster. Faster games mean I can get in 2 games instead of 1 with my stupidly limited schedule and that makes me a happy gamer.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Well it is true, I do judge all 40K vehicle rules on the first set I played - the 2nd Ed rules. Vehicles in 2nd Ed, as much as transports were deathtraps, were fun. I've not had fun with tanks since then.

BYE

Ogryn, in a Chimera moving at flank speed, ramming an enemy unit, piling out of the wreck (taking wounds in the process), and opening up with can't-miss 2 sustained fire dice ripper guns? Hellhounds which caused Fear? Yes, 2nd ed gave tanks their propers.

I have a question for someone who has read or seen the book. I also have not seen this addressed yet..

Are there "Get You By" shortened army lists included? Or does it 100% require you to also purchase codexes?

-Porkuslime

porkuslime wrote:I have a question for someone who has read or seen the book. I also have not seen this addressed yet..

Are there "Get You By" shortened army lists included? Or does it 100% require you to also purchase codexes?

-Porkuslime

GW has stated that future Core Rules releases will not invalidate the use of existing Codices or Army Books.

So the answer is no, it does not includes "get you by" lists.

You do realize that a tank in the open can take way more punishment than before, right? I played 2 games of 5th edition this past weekend and my demolishers had no trouble being in the open and on the move. Cover saves are nice, but with the way missions work now, moving is pretty important.

Capt K

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Mahu wrote:You mean besides the fact that any unit can "contest" an objective. And you can still move and fire the Battle Cannon with no negatives.

And leave my 4+ cover? No thanks.

BYE

HAIL GODZILLA

I think it is going to be the Age of the Great Devourer:

Tanks dont move and shoot back, they can't back off and fire, AND assaulting them from ANY side hits their rear armor? Who cares about cover saves from fire, a unit of hormagaunts could knock out an army of skimmers now, in HtH?

TMCs are going to all run now?

They didn't mitigate the Monstrous Creatures being immpossible to kill?

Lookout for the new daemons too.

The only saving grace there seems to be no new melees with consolidate moves, but I expect that will be minor anyway...

Yeesh, tanks suck.

I wonder if Melee attacks against non moving vehcles still hit automatically and if skimmers still need a 6 all the time? Hmm.

Augustus wrote:I wonder if Melee attacks against non moving vehcles still hit automatically and if skimmers still need a 6 all the time? Hmm.

Stationary == autohit. Also, if the vehicle doesn't move, the assaulters get to keep beating on it in the next assault phase (though they aren't "locked" and can be shot).

Cruising speed+ == hit on 6's; I didn't see anything in either the vehicle or the skimmer rules suggesting that skimmers *always* need a 6.

So, to sum up:

Tanks can't move and fire all their guns
Generally Tanks will need to be immobile to fire all their guns
Tanks will generally be immobile in cover to take advantage of the save
Cover saves for tanks do not afect hand to hand
Skimmers are not always glanced when moving anymore
All vehicles are hit on rear armor in assault
Most vehicles are A10 on the rear
Most Vehcles can only move 12 (and not shoot at all if so)
Infantry and MCs all run now, even jump guys and jet packs.

Why would anyone play tanks at all? Even regular assault troops can destroy tanks now, where they were invulnerable before (S4+D6<11 or 12), and tanks that choose to move fast enough to escape asasult like this wont shoot anymore.

Forget tyranids even, any S4 assault units could just cross the board and destroy a tank, I daresay even regular marines could probably cross the ground and destroy a Leman Russ in HtH, especially with running, probably in 3 turns.? And units with Krak Grenades? S6+D6, in whole squads, yikes.

Have I made an error here? What is a situation where a leman russ or like battlketank would excel? Is there one?