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I thought double-1's on a order was a good thing? Something about auto-comprehension and one additional order for the turn...?

In the picture below, there are my three types of dice.

On the left is my original GW dice, i never really noticed how bad they rolled when i first started so i used them for a while, after a while i noticed they were pretty junk so i bought new ones. In the middle we have my "lucky" dice, that seem to roll very well, but i do only use them for Eldar... and they get alot or re-rolls, if anyone else uses them or i have to use them for non re-roll uses i find them to range between 3-5 out of 10 (1 being low, 10 being high) meaning they roll poor, but can reach a steady almost average. All in all, not much better than the GW dice.

Now... on the right we have my newest dice. The edges are more defined and the corner are more prominant, but not completely square edged. As for the numbers they are cut in, there is a depression, but with numbers rather than pips it makes less of a difference.
Pipped die take lose 6x the amount of volume off the "6" as they do the "1". These, at a guess, lose about 2.5x.

In addition they are transparent. While the above little details might not seem like much i'd rate these die as 4-6 out of 10. They don't roll excessivly high consistenly, or low. They seem to roll pretty average. My TL scatter lasers generally get 3 hits for example.

As for using my dice... You can go ahead, but they definetly wont like you, they do their masters bidding

Please, do not imply that your dice are sentient. You will be quickly pounced upon. ; )

Eric

Sharing dice is to wargaming like cutting a deck is to card games.

I trust you to shuffle your own deck, you trust me to shuffle my own deck, but you *ALWAYS* offer to let your opponent cut your deck as a courtesy as well as showing that you do intend to randomize your deck and allow your opponent to randomize it too. Many people decline cutting, some tap the top to accept your shuffle, some do wish to cut your deck.

It is courtesy, ettiqute and usually required events. If you squealed and said "DON'T YOU DARE TOUCH MY DECK! MY SUPERSTITIONS!" you would be seen as at best a kook, probably a bad sport, possibly covering up cheating and in violation of the rules of most card tourneys.

Dice are exactly the same in every way. We trust opponents to randomize the dice like a deck of cards, and we expect the dice roll random like we expect cards are not marked. We also expect you don't attempt to influence the outcome of the dice the same way we don't expect you to stack the deck or pull off the bottom or other card techniques. And like cards, you offer that your opponent has the ability to randomize your deck or share your random rolls via dice.

If you refuse to share dice, your dice are instantly suspect, you are a cheater, poor sport and should be asked to leave the event if the event requires dice sharing.

There is no valid reason to never allow your opponent to experience the same random results via your dice just like there is no valid reason to never allow your opponent to cut/shuffle your deck, especially if the event requires it.

So, how do the gamescience dice work anyways? Im really thinking about placing an order to them here in the next few weeks, because I have 2 types of dice. 1. is the gakky chessex die (I call them pip die) and they are either horrible or really good, never average. 2. is casino style dice and they do actually roll well enough, but they are pretty damn big and get a little annoying when I play my Orks.

Speaking, how big are gamescience dice? Are they close to casino dice or smaller like the chessex ones?

nkelsch wrote:Sharing dice is to wargaming like cutting a deck is to card games.

I trust you to shuffle your own deck, you trust me to shuffle my own deck, but you *ALWAYS* offer to let your opponent cut your deck as a courtesy as well as showing that you do intend to randomize your deck and allow your opponent to randomize it too. Many people decline cutting, some tap the top to accept your shuffle, some do wish to cut your deck.

It is courtesy, ettiqute and usually required events. If you squealed and said "DON'T YOU DARE TOUCH MY DECK! MY SUPERSTITIONS!" you would be seen as at best a kook, probably a bad sport, possibly covering up cheating and in violation of the rules of most card tourneys.

Dice are exactly the same in every way. We trust opponents to randomize the dice like a deck of cards, and we expect the dice roll random like we expect cards are not marked. We also expect you don't attempt to influence the outcome of the dice the same way we don't expect you to stack the deck or pull off the bottom or other card techniques. And like cards, you offer that your opponent has the ability to randomize your deck or share your random rolls via dice.

If you refuse to share dice, your dice are instantly suspect, you are a cheater, poor sport and should be asked to leave the event if the event requires dice sharing.

There is no valid reason to never allow your opponent to experience the same random results via your dice just like there is no valid reason to never allow your opponent to cut/shuffle your deck, especially if the event requires it.

This is not a logical comparison at all.
*Using* my dice is not like cutting a deck of cards. Inspecting my dice for "randomness" is the equivalent (which I've repeatedly indicated my agreement towards).
If you want a valid comparison to card gaming, then the applicable equivalent is to let your opponent use your deck.
"Hmm. You've been pulling a lot of really good cards. I want to draw off of your deck for a while!"
How would you react to that?

Re: Bold Text:
This gives me a clear answer to my earlier question. Calling me a cheater and poor sport because I don't want my dice to "walk off?" That is obviously you attempting to be offensive to me. Classy.

Re: Underlined Text:
You forgot to add that this is YOUR OPINION. It is clearly not factual. There *IS* a valid reason. I've listed it numerous times. That you do not find it agreeable does not diminish it's validity.

Oddly, you fail to address any more the fact that I'm willing to share dice with someone who insists on it... but with their dice. To acknowledge my willingness would punch a big hole through your "Poor sport/cheater" conspiracy theory.

Eric

MagickalMemories wrote:This is not a logical comparison at all.

*Using* my dice is not like cutting a deck of cards. Inspecting my dice for "randomness" is the equivalent (which I've repeatedly indicated my agreement towards).
If you want a valid comparison to card gaming, then the applicable equivalent is to let your opponent use your deck.
"Hmm. You've been pulling a lot of really good cards. I want to draw off of your deck for a while!"
How would you react to that?

The expectation is you have a random deck when playing cards, there is an expectation you have random dice when rolling dice. A good way to guarantee a deck is random is to let your opponent shuffle/cut it. A good way to guarantee your dice are random is to let your opponent roll them. The comparison holds up and is perfect, which is why major events require dice sharing.

as for your example, if your deck is 'drawing hot' then I shouldn't complain because I should have had a chance to shuffle/cut your deck pre-game to guarantee the results were random. When your dice are 'rolling hot' I have the same option to guarantee they roll random by rolling them myself. It is a check and balance. having the opportunity to roll a dice or cut a deck is usually enough for me to trust an opponent that he intended for them to be random. Denying that access to cut a deck or roll a dice means than there is a good chance he stacked the deck or has loaded dice. Hence why dice sharing/deck cutting is a way to give opponents peace of mind over issues.

You are just a poor sport.

Re: Bold Text:
This gives me a clear answer to my earlier question. Calling me a cheater and poor sport because I don't want my dice to "walk off?" That is obviously you attempting to be offensive to me. Classy.

lame excuse for being a poor sport and you should be seen as suspect because you do not follow written rules of the tourney. not following documented published rules of the event is cheating.

Re: Underlined Text:
You forgot to add that this is YOUR OPINION. It is clearly not factual. There *IS* a valid reason. I've listed it numerous times. That you do not find it agreeable does not diminish it's validity.

You can disagree, doesn't make you immune to the rule if dice sharing is mandated at an event. You can choose to not participate and go home.

Oddly, you fail to address any more the fact that I'm willing to share dice with someone who insists on it... but with their dice. To acknowledge my willingness would punch a big hole through your "Poor sport/cheater" conspiracy theory.

Eric

No dice should be used a single time in the tourney if it is not good enough to be used any time by any one. That is the only way to guarantee integrity. If you have been using dice, I then ask to share your dice mid game and you refuse when the event CLEARLY STATES dice sharing is mandatory and you say 'hey, we can share your dice.' that does nothing to clear you from being a cheater or to show that all your dice rolls up to that point have been random... all that says is you got caught and will just play clean from that point forward. makes all moves and rolls made by you up to this point in the tourney suspect and since you are breaking the rules of the event, you should be disqualified.

It is really simple, there is no valid reason not to share dice. Not sharing is poor sportsmanship and if the event requires it, cheating. Every 'excuse' is just that, an excuse. Crying about 'mah dice may walk off' is intellectually dishonest and insulting to opponents and again, being a poor sport. If you can't expect your opponents to not steal your dice that shows such a level of disrespect and breach of basic social contracts than I question why you play a social game. There should be no negative reaction to being asked to share dice. And if you can't follow a simple rule of the event or walk into an event with the attitude that rules don't apply to you, then again... you may need to figure out what sportsmanship means when you refuse to follow rules because you don't like them.

nkelsch wrote:

MagickalMemories wrote:This is not a logical comparison at all.

*Using* my dice is not like cutting a deck of cards. Inspecting my dice for "randomness" is the equivalent (which I've repeatedly indicated my agreement towards).
If you want a valid comparison to card gaming, then the applicable equivalent is to let your opponent use your deck.
"Hmm. You've been pulling a lot of really good cards. I want to draw off of your deck for a while!"
How would you react to that?

The expectation is you have a random deck when playing cards, there is an expectation you have random dice when rolling dice. A good way to guarantee a deck is random is to let your opponent shuffle/cut it. A good way to guarantee your dice are random is to let your opponent roll them. The comparison holds up and is perfect, which is why major events require dice sharing.

as for your example, if your deck is 'drawing hot' then I shouldn't complain because I should have had a chance to shuffle/cut your deck pre-game to guarantee the results were random. When your dice are 'rolling hot' I have the same option to guarantee they roll random by rolling them myself. It is a check and balance. having the opportunity to roll a dice or cut a deck is usually enough for me to trust an opponent that he intended for them to be random. Denying that access to cut a deck or roll a dice means than there is a good chance he stacked the deck or has loaded dice. Hence why dice sharing/deck cutting is a way to give opponents peace of mind over issues.

You are just a poor sport.

You do not need to use my dice in the game to ensure they're random. That's a fallacy. It will ensure no such thing. If I was using loaded dice, they would still be skewed. Your example is baseless.
You keep insisting I'd keep you from rolling my dice. Does admitting the truth devastate you so much that you cannot state facts properly? I am willing to let my opponent roll my dice. He can check my dice until he's content. Once he's done, however, I will count my dice and (a) use them myself [only] or (b) happily put them away and use his.
This is not poor sportsmanship. This is the exact opposite. There's no temper tantrum involved. There is no name calling or grudge holding. It is, in fact, the definition of sportsmanship. You are not getting your way and calling me names because of it. *That* is poor sportsmanship.

Besides, why should I trust YOUR judgement of good sportsmanship? After all, you're just a thief who wants the opportunity to steal my dice. They're nice, Koplow, square edge dice. I understand why you want to steal them. Denying you the chance is just making you mad.
See? We can both make absurd and baseless statements with no basis in fact.

nkelsch wrote:

Re: Bold Text:
This gives me a clear answer to my earlier question. Calling me a cheater and poor sport because I don't want my dice to "walk off?" That is obviously you attempting to be offensive to me. Classy.

lame excuse for being a poor sport and you should be seen as suspect because you do not follow written rules of the tourney. not following documented published rules of the event is cheating.

Re: Underlined Text:
You forgot to add that this is YOUR OPINION. It is clearly not factual. There *IS* a valid reason. I've listed it numerous times. That you do not find it agreeable does not diminish it's validity.

You can disagree, doesn't make you immune to the rule if dice sharing is mandated at an event. You can choose to not participate and go home.

Oddly, you fail to address any more the fact that I'm willing to share dice with someone who insists on it... but with their dice. To acknowledge my willingness would punch a big hole through your "Poor sport/cheater" conspiracy theory.

Eric

No dice should be used a single time in the tourney if it is not good enough to be used any time by any one. That is the only way to guarantee integrity. If you have been using dice, I then ask to share your dice mid game and you refuse when the event CLEARLY STATES dice sharing is mandatory and you say 'hey, we can share your dice.' that does nothing to clear you from being a cheater or to show that all your dice rolls up to that point have been random... all that says is you got caught and will just play clean from that point forward. makes all moves and rolls made by you up to this point in the tourney suspect and since you are breaking the rules of the event, you should be disqualified.

I see. So, you would appear to have more issues with people disagreeing with you to the point of calling them names... again. Look in the mirror, pal.
People with differing opinions aren't the bad guys you want to make them out to be. They're... wait for it... people with differing opinions.
:gasp:
You don't need to play the role of ITG here. Try to be civil.
If dice sharing is mandatory and I'm willing to share YOUR dice, it kind of blows your "cheater" theory out of the water. *IF* I was a cheater, I would not want things to be on such fair terms. I would insist on each of us using our own dice and make up some crap excuse as to why I should not use yours. The whole time I'm using your dice, I'd gladly allow a TO or judge to sit by and test my dice for randomness for the rest of the game... because, you know, that's how we cheaters roll. He won't catch me because I'm probably just using shady rolling techniques on my 20 to 30 dice at a time.

nkelsch wrote:
It is really simple, there is no valid reason not to share dice. Not sharing is poor sportsmanship and if the event requires it, cheating. Every 'excuse' is just that, an excuse. Crying about 'mah dice may walk off' is intellectually dishonest and insulting to opponents and again, being a poor sport. If you can't expect your opponents to not steal your dice that shows such a level of disrespect and breach of basic social contracts than I question why you play a social game. There should be no negative reaction to being asked to share dice. And if you can't follow a simple rule of the event or walk into an event with the attitude that rules don't apply to you, then again... you may need to figure out what sportsmanship means when you refuse to follow rules because you don't like them.

There is a valid reason, and I've stated it. That you fail to accept it simply shows a narrow-minded and cynical viewpoint of someone who refuses to trust in the best intentions of others. Not sharing *my dice* is not cheating. It gives me no unfair advantage if I am not using them either. Fail.
You may not have ever had problems with your property walking off. Congratulations. I have not been so fortunate. I'm convinced that you don't truly understand the meanings of some of the things you're accusing me of. They don't describe my actions or intent at all. They describe your baseless, uninformed and ignorant opinion.
Because I'm concerned that the dice will "walk off" does not mean I suspect my opponent of stealing them. It means that, in the myriad concerns I have during a game, and the things I need to keep track of, it is that much easier not to have to worry about my dice. People are careless at times. They toss dice around, heedless of where they go. Next thing you know, there's a missing die that just cannot be found. God knows where it rolled off to - if that's what happened to it. It shows me your level of comprehension, though, that theft is the only thing you presume happens when something goes missing.
This leads me to the next issue; spectators. While I may enjoy playing a social game with individuals across the table from me, and may be having any KIND of a time from bad to good, I do not always know who's walking and/or skulking around the table. If *I* have placed my dice on the table, I have them in ONE SPOT where I can keep an eye on them. Joe Random walking around the FLGS is not likely to be able to walk up & snatch one if he likes the way they look ("Hurr hurr. Look, guys. I snatched a pink die from that fat guy over there!"). If my opponent is the caretaker of my dice, that's one (or more) places I have to watch. I have more important things to do during the match than watch my dice when I'm not rolling them.
Though you are doing your darnedest to pigeon-hole my statements where you can and ignore the ones you can't, the fact is that your replies are full of holes, fallacies and (when you seem unable to make up a good one) outright insults to hide the lack of facts.

If you're so distrustful of the intentions of others and quick to call names, I wonder why *you* are bothering to play social games. That is true anti-social behavior.

There's a theory out there. It says (roughly) that we presume of others what we would do, ourselves. In other words, if you think that I want to do things the way I want to do them because I'm a cheater, liar and/or poor sport, you should take the time to get introspective and examine yourself, sir. I've given you no indications that my intentions are less than honorable. By that theory, you're just projecting self-incriminations onto me.

Eric

I really should have unsubscribed to this pages ago.

And I thought Blood Bowl was Games Workshop's most confirmation bias promoting game.
Apparently I was wrong...

The real solution to bad rolling is to anoint the dice in sacred oils, and pray to the dice spirits.

KingCracker wrote:So, how do the gamescience dice work anyways? Im really thinking about placing an order to them here in the next few weeks, because I have 2 types of dice. 1. is the gakky chessex die (I call them pip die) and they are either horrible or really good, never average. 2. is casino style dice and they do actually roll well enough, but they are pretty damn big and get a little annoying when I play my Orks.

Speaking, how big are gamescience dice? Are they close to casino dice or smaller like the chessex ones?

I believe that the Game Science dice only come in the 16mm size, which is close (or the same) as Casino dice. Honestly this is the only reason I have not ordered some, I play IG and when I need to roll 12 dice for my Hydras firing or 18+ when double tapping lasguns dice that large are just not practical.

As for the whole sharing/not sharing dice. Seriously, both of you it is not that big a deal, you would think someone's life was on the line or thousands of dollars in dice the way the conversation has gone.

An event mandates sharing dice? Share them or find another event that does not mandate it. End of story, no explaination required.

An even doesn't mandate sharing dice? Lick all of your dice in front of your opponent and smile creepily at them for all I care. If you think your opponents dice may be odd get a TO, but REALLY how often has someone REALLY used loaded dice? I'd estimate only about half the stories of it here on Dakka are true and there's only a couple, you do the math on that.

And really if you're concerned about dice disappearing get a cube for them. First thing I do at the end of every game is fill my dice cube. If the cube isn't full I get my opponent to help me find the missing die/dice. The result? Never lost a die in 7+ years, and I use the tiny GW/Chessex dice. And again, really if you lose one die, that's what; .40 cents? I know times are tough right now but holy crap you can't even pay the tax on the cheapest thing GW sells with .40 cents.

MagickalMemories wrote:You do not need to use my dice in the game to ensure they're random. That's a fallacy. It will ensure no such thing.

but that is the standard used by wargaming as a whole and the rule implemented by tourneys to discourage loaded dice... if your opponent can at any time use them your advantage is moot which means there is no point to attempt to do it. The same way stacking your deck is a waste of time because your opponent may cut it to prevent your stacking from being effective. Of course you cans till get around that but a very simple and reasonable action really discourages it for all but the most hardcore of cheaters.

If I was using loaded dice, they would still be skewed. Your example is baseless.
You keep insisting I'd keep you from rolling my dice. Does admitting the truth devastate you so much that you cannot state facts properly? I am willing to let my opponent roll my dice. He can check my dice until he's content. Once he's done, however, I will count my dice and (a) use them myself [only] or (b) happily put them away and use his.
This is not poor sportsmanship. This is the exact opposite. There's no temper tantrum involved. There is no name calling or grudge holding. It is, in fact, the definition of sportsmanship. You are not getting your way and calling me names because of it. *That* is poor sportsmanship.

A reasonable rule has been put forth by the TO, an event you have agreed to participate in and follow the rules. You then refuse to follow the rules put forward because you don't like them for unreasonable reasons like assuming your opponents are stealing your dice or dice superstitions. The rule is not 'let opponents inspect dice to verify they are random' which is pretty impossible to do and a worthless empty gesture on behalf of a cheater and someone not willing to follow the rules of the event.

AdeptiCon does not require the use any specific type of dice, [b]however your dice must ALWAYS be made available to your opponent to use if they so desire. AdeptiCon reserves the right to remove any dice showing excessive wear, obvious tampering or other questionable deformities. [/b]

Allowing them to be inspected and refusal to be used by opponents is not what was asked of you. You should be disqualified for not following the rules.

Besides, why should I trust YOUR judgement of good sportsmanship? After all, you're just a thief who wants the opportunity to steal my dice. They're nice, Koplow, square edge dice. I understand why you want to steal them. Denying you the chance is just making you mad.
See? We can both make absurd and baseless statements with no basis in fact.

My example is supported by the rules of the tourney and reasonable, yours are not. You are not harmed by sharing dice and if you are missing a die, there are things you can do post-game to make sure you get your dice back.

I see. So, you would appear to have more issues with people disagreeing with you to the point of calling them names... again. Look in the mirror, pal.
People with differing opinions aren't the bad guys you want to make them out to be. They're... wait for it... people with differing opinions.
:gasp:

You are not following the rules and blatantly admitting you will refuse to follow the code of conduct of a tourney. This makes you a cheater and a poor sport by raw definition. You are calling me a thief out of the possibility that I might steal something.

You don't need to play the role of ITG here. Try to be civil.
If dice sharing is mandatory and I'm willing to share YOUR dice, it kind of blows your "cheater" theory out of the water. *IF* I was a cheater, I would not want things to be on such fair terms. I would insist on each of us using our own dice and make up some crap excuse as to why I should not use yours. The whole time I'm using your dice, I'd gladly allow a TO or judge to sit by and test my dice for randomness for the rest of the game... because, you know, that's how we cheaters roll. He won't catch me because I'm probably just using shady rolling techniques on my 20 to 30 dice at a time.

Wrong... people cheat up until they get caught then they say 'I misinterpreted the rules' and then move forward following the rules to avoid disqualification taking whatever advantage they have gained up to that point. If you don't like events that mandate dice sharing, then you should stay home if you are incapable of following the tourneys code of conduct. It is intellectually dishonest to say that the TO can sit by and 'test' your dice. That is a waste of his time and everyone else at the events time only because you refuse to follow a reasonable request of the event.

There is a valid reason, and I've stated it. That you fail to accept it simply shows a narrow-minded and cynical viewpoint of someone who refuses to trust in the best intentions of others. Not sharing *my dice* is not cheating. It gives me no unfair advantage if I am not using them either. Fail.

If you used them for half the day and cheated your way to the top table it sure does give you an unfair advantage... and refusing to share the dice on game 3 of a 5 day event does give you an unfair advantage if you had gotten 2 wins under your belt based upon those dice. If you share them or had offered to share them, then that means those who choose to use your dice can balance the odds by ensuring both sides get the same result. Those who declined to use them and lost had the opportunity.

]

You may not have ever had problems with your property walking off. Congratulations. I have not been so fortunate. I'm convinced that you don't truly understand the meanings of some of the things you're accusing me of. They don't describe my actions or intent at all. They describe your baseless, uninformed and ignorant opinion.

I am accusing you of not following the rules of an event, which you are refusing to do. I am saying refusing to follow the reasonable rules of the event makes you a poor sport and a cheater, and an entitled selfish person who rules do not apply to which it does. Dice can walk off just as easily if someone is rolling them or not just like all of our stuff we use for wargaming. Refusing to allow people to roll your dice doesn't protect you against theft and is not a valid reason to refusing to follow a rule of the event.

Because I'm concerned that the dice will "walk off" does not mean I suspect my opponent of stealing them. It means that, in the myriad concerns I have during a game, and the things I need to keep track of, it is that much easier not to have to worry about my dice. People are careless at times. They toss dice around, heedless of where they go. Next thing you know, there's a missing die that just cannot be found. God knows where it rolled off to - if that's what happened to it. It shows me your level of comprehension, though, that theft is the only thing you presume happens when something goes missing.
This leads me to the next issue; spectators. While I may enjoy playing a social game with individuals across the table from me, and may be having any KIND of a time from bad to good, I do not always know who's walking and/or skulking around the table. If *I* have placed my dice on the table, I have them in ONE SPOT where I can keep an eye on them. Joe Random walking around the FLGS is not likely to be able to walk up & snatch one if he likes the way they look ("Hurr hurr. Look, guys. I snatched a pink die from that fat guy over there!"). If my opponent is the caretaker of my dice, that's one (or more) places I have to watch. I have more important things to do during the match than watch my dice when I'm not rolling them.

Hey, if you are all about being a good sport and the goodwill of man, you could simply say "I like these dice, if you do use them, can you make sure post-game you help me get all 36 of them back in the cube?" No one wants to unintentionally take your crap and I feel like most of us are capable of keeping track of dice. And even if you lose some... tough crap... That is the name of the game. We lose templates, dice, and sometimes models at events. It happens. It doesn't justify breaking rules or causing issues that directly impact the game like slowing things down with requests of pointless dice tests or refusing to share.

Though you are doing your darnedest to pigeon-hole my statements where you can and ignore the ones you can't, the fact is that your replies are full of holes, fallacies and (when you seem unable to make up a good one) outright insults to hide the lack of facts.

Most events mandate dice sharing. You refuse to follow the rules of engagement for the events proposing an unreasonable alternative that supports and cloaks cheating and feel entitled to being exempt from a rule everyone is forced to follow for an unreasonable justification. That is all fact.

If you're so distrustful of the intentions of others and quick to call names, I wonder why *you* are bothering to play social games. That is true anti-social behavior.

I let people share my dice and I follow the rules. Because people do that, it shows a trust in my opponent and shows them I have nothing to hide. That is being a good sport and being friendly. Refusing to follow the rules and refusing to share dice is not.

There's a theory out there. It says (roughly) that we presume of others what we would do, ourselves. In other words, if you think that I want to do things the way I want to do them because I'm a cheater, liar and/or poor sport, you should take the time to get introspective and examine yourself, sir. I've given you no indications that my intentions are less than honorable. By that theory, you're just projecting self-incriminations onto me.

Eric

Yes you have. Your reasons are far from honorable and are flimsy and insulting to opponents. "sorry, you can't touch my dice because you wills teal or lose them. The rules of the event shouldn't apply to me and if I had been using loaded dice all day, you will never get to know as the first time someone asks me about them I will hide them from being used."

I follow the rules of the event and hide nothing from my opponent. You are the one being selfish and deceptive and not playing in good faith or following the rules. Just let people share your dice, most times the willingness to allow it is all the 'proof' people need that you have nothing to hide. If you give people the option, most people won't need to use them and you won't lose any dice. I find that is much more common and a better way to ensure your dice are not lost while following the rules of the event and not being a deceptive anti-social person causing headaches for your opponent and TO. The more you fight it, the worse it becomes for you.

It boils down to many events require dice sharing, and you refuse to abide by the events conduct policy. That problem is with you.

vonjankmon wrote:

KingCracker wrote:So, how do the gamescience dice work anyways? Im really thinking about placing an order to them here in the next few weeks, because I have 2 types of dice. 1. is the gakky chessex die (I call them pip die) and they are either horrible or really good, never average. 2. is casino style dice and they do actually roll well enough, but they are pretty damn big and get a little annoying when I play my Orks.

Speaking, how big are gamescience dice? Are they close to casino dice or smaller like the chessex ones?

I believe that the Game Science dice only come in the 16mm size, which is close (or the same) as Casino dice. Honestly this is the only reason I have not ordered some, I play IG and when I need to roll 12 dice for my Hydras firing or 18+ when double tapping lasguns dice that large are just not practical.

As for the whole sharing/not sharing dice. Seriously, both of you it is not that big a deal, you would think someone's life was on the line or thousands of dollars in dice the way the conversation has gone.

An event mandates sharing dice? Share them or find another event that does not mandate it. End of story, no explaination required.

An even doesn't mandate sharing dice? Lick all of your dice in front of your opponent and smile creepily at them for all I care. If you think your opponents dice may be odd get a TO, but REALLY how often has someone REALLY used loaded dice? I'd estimate only about half the stories of it here on Dakka are true and there's only a couple, you do the math on that.

And really if you're concerned about dice disappearing get a cube for them. First thing I do at the end of every game is fill my dice cube. If the cube isn't full I get my opponent to help me find the missing die/dice. The result? Never lost a die in 7+ years, and I use the tiny GW/Chessex dice. And again, really if you lose one die, that's what; .40 cents? I know times are tough right now but holy crap you can't even pay the tax on the cheapest thing GW sells with .40 cents.

Ahh that sucks. See thats my problem with them playing Orks. 40 shoota shots, of when I ran slugga mobs..... it gets really annoying rolling the same 40 dice 3 times over and keeping track of hits. Oh well...maybe Ill try my luck with some new chessex dice?




And holy crap, this thread proves that you guys can bitch and complain literally, about anything. So someone doesnt like cooties, this WAS a discussion about dice FFS!

Okaaaay. I wasn't 'insinuating' anything, I expressed an opinion, and I stick by it. I have to go stand over here now...

I think there's a big difference between sharing dice at a game, and lending other things. For one thing, dice aren't the most perishable of items. Unless someone has a handful of peanut butter, I'm not worried.

I understand the frustration over losing things, that's why I count my dice before I leave... takes about 5 seconds, especially since my dice are unique. Never lost a one. I always bring extra dice though, just in case someone needs them, and they're old GW dice that I don't care about. I think this is a prudent thing to do.

Oh, and take a chill pill Magickal 1) It's a game, for stress RELIEF and 2) You'll live longer!

Cyrax777: Funny you should mention koplow, since I decided to order a few boxes of them. I don't know how I'll like square edges though. What do you mean by Slaanesh dice? I've got a Slaanesh 40k army (all old metal Diaznettes too), and I've been meaning to get some dice for them (pink frosted ones - damn you Chessex!).

Why can't someone make dice that look as cool as Chessex, but aren't full of defects?

Edit: Whoa, a whole page appeared while I was writing. In summary, I agree with the findings of the venerable Judge vonjankmon An alternative to licking dice is to proclaim before battle that the dice have been blessed by spending the night before battle... down your pants.

Deleted by Manchu.

Alright, I think we need a reminder of Rule Number One here. Being polite means we can have differences of opinions without being called liars, theives, cheaters, and paranoiacs.

Obviously, if you want to participate in a tournament you have to abide by that tournament's rules. One cannot insist, however, that people not playing in that tournament obey that tournament's rules. If you think someone's a cheat then maybe you ought to politely decline a game with them rather than making a fuss about them being a cheat, especially when your only "proof" is something as simple as them not wanting you to roll their dice outside of a tournament situation.

tetrisphreak wrote:I thought double-1's on a order was a good thing? Something about auto-comprehension and one additional order for the turn...?

I thought 1's were auto fails it might have been 2 12's in a row all i recall was he double failed with two diffrent sets of dice from 2 diffrent companys. probability was not in his favor that game.

Hey cyrax, I would like to know about these 'Slaanesh' dice you speak of... I'd be interested in buying some. I did a quick google, but can't find anything. Are they customs jobs?

Oh, and double 1's is as tetrisphreak said. Extra free order. Since it's a Ld test, lower is better. Double 6's is a mega-fail, and no more orders that turn.

sorry for the semi-threadomancy but I've been doing some research regarding the search for fair dice...

there has been a lot of discussion of the controversial dakkadakka article stating that 1's on chessex dice roll 29% of the time but there has not been much discussion of the study that was referred to a couple of times in this thread (http://dicephysics.info/0107.htm).

This study states that after rolling casino dice 600,000+ times there has not been any evidence of bias whereas poor quality dice with drilled pips introduces bias because the center of gravity of the dice is not in the center of the dice.

So to sum it up its not the rounded edges that are the culprit but rather the drilled pips, as dash has mentioned. so the search for small casino dice continues...amazon sells 12.7mm casino dice for $14 for a set of two.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Here is another study published in the journal "Anthology of Statistics in Sports" comparing dice with drilled pips and casino dice. The authors were interested in runs of 10 or more of the same number so it doesnt really apply to the discussion here, but the authors did find that the dice with drilled pips tended to slightly roll more runs and thus were more biased.

http://books.google.com/books?id=t_YuXkffVYYC&pg=PA249&lpg=PA249&dq=drilled+pips+dice+bias&source=bl&ots=AMBgJJtAGF&sig=YuVvz7YgBJcTVWnOrnG0GBI7Flk&hl=en&ei=D6ZeTrXTGLDRiAL959izBQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CCYQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=drilled%20pips%20dice%20bias&f=false

Hi this is my first post here, but I've searched high and low for small 1/2 inch casino dice and I found a dice company that made them for me with serial number in Florida.. a set of five was $12.50.. I tried to get them to make other colors other than red but they gave some excuse.. but they do make them...

http://dicegames.com/casinodice.php

Then I found this on ebay!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Precise-casino-quality-1-2-inch-dice-/190592180199?_trksid=p5197.m7&_trkparms=algo%3DLVI%26itu%3DUCI%26otn%3D4%26po%3DLVI%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D3734955959580989149

Dealing with him now... I'll let you all know the outcome...

Hope this helps someone..

Thanks for the heads up, even if it is wee bit late perhaps.



Thread is being locked due to thread necromancy.