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htj wrote:Hmm, more complaints about price. So, £35 per player is too much, despite it including the rules, counters, gaming table, terrain, and both factions' miniatures. Hey, if you don't like it, you don't like it, fair enough. But no games company sells cheaper than that. None. My Dystopian Wars entry cost was higher than that, and that's the cheapest game I've gotten into. Complaints about the price tag are daft, especially compared to the costs of the rest of GW products.

The thing is, you're making an apples\oranges comparison. You're not buying into a wargaming system here, it's just a stand alone board game no different then Chutes & Ladders or Mousetrap. I'm not saying it's overpriced, simply it costs more then I would spend for any product in that category. I wouldn't buy a super fancy copy of Monopoly if it was more then $60 either, no matter how nice it was, and I love Monopoly. I'm sure many people will snap it up as a bargain, I'm simply not one of them.

htj wrote:Personally, I couldn't give a tinker's cuss about the game. I'm going to get me a copy for the models. I like those crazy ships, and have plans for modding Uncharted Seas into the Warhammer World. Being familiar with the basics of the rule-set from DW contributes a lot to that decision.

The ships really are terrific looking. The whole game looks pretty neat.

Define boardgame please.

Now define miniatures game.

Dread Fleet plays on a 5ft by 3.5 ft mat that does not have zones/squares/hexes/spaces to control/measure movement. It could be played on any surface, but obviously a sea mat of some type is appropriate.

I just can't see that being called a boardgame. Every boardgame my limited mind can think of is played on some board/surface with spaces/zones/squares/hexes or something that are used for movement and zones of control for combat etc....

htj wrote:For cost-product balance it's probably the cheapest thing GW have produced in years.

That doesn't change how much someone is prepared to spend for a stand-alone game.

Being value for money and being an attractive purchase aren't always the same thing.

Still, it does make one wonder - if they rules and miniatures were released separately and lower individual costs, would those who stop at the price tag be more likely to pick it up?

Probably not. If you need the lot to play the game anyway, selling everything separately just makes buying the game more difficult.

Decent previews might change some opinions. Although speaking purely for myself, the Australian price tag would put me off buying it regardless of how good a game it actually turns out to be.

It is listed under Gaming on the GW website
Not Specialist Games with Necromunda, Mordheim et al

Must be a mutant board game that was cast out and cut off its tail to spite its arse

Luco wrote:

Try college student paying out of pocket and you'll be a lot closer to the mark, in my case. You have $115 to just drop on something? $130 for shoes? I think I need to change my major to get wherever in life that you are. I'll be there one day...I think. -sigh-

Good news Luco! You dont need a college degree to join the Royal Marines, merely a strong chin, iron will, and a willingness to stab strangers in the face on the queens orders.

Sign up today! /salute

Ouze wrote:The thing is, you're making an apples\oranges comparison. You're not buying into a wargaming system here, it's just a stand alone board game no different then Chutes & Ladders or Mousetrap. I'm not saying it's overpriced, simply it costs more then I would spend for any product in that category. I wouldn't buy a super fancy copy of Monopoly if it was more then $60 either, no matter how nice it was, and I love Monopoly. I'm sure many people will snap it up as a bargain, I'm simply not one of them.

I really don't see this as being a board game any more than, say, Warmachine. But then I suppose we're all just speculating until we see the rules proper. I shouldn't really put forward that argument, though, as I'm buying it for the miniatures. I'm a sucker for pretty miniatures.

I love Monopoly too! I picked up a classic set with wooden houses from, near as we can estimate, the 1950s-ish? No board, but all the pieces, £5 at a charity shop. I was happy as the proverbial Larry. But I digress.

insaniak wrote:Being value for money and being an attractive purchase aren't always the same thing.

True, true. It's more of a subjective thing than my (overly black and white, to be fair) original post implied. I was more criticising the 'it's too expensive for what it is' stance than the 'it's too pricey for me to want it' stance.

Decent previews might change some opinions. Although speaking purely for myself, the Australian price tag would put me off buying it regardless of how good a game it actually turns out to be.

Now that price difference, I feel, is just unfair. Diminished sales in Oz is what GW deserves for the way they mark things up over there.

Just my 2 cents but i am all for buying "Dread Fleet". Man O' War was my first GW game and i simply loved it. I ran Man O' War thru my old gaming group called "The Adventurer's Club" at a few local conventions and we always had a blast playing!!!!

Hopefully "Dread Fleet" will capture some of the joy (and none of the cheese) of Man O' War. Plus the pieces do look awesome!

I checked out the article they put up today. Interesting bit, in that they went through a turn and it gave me a good idea of how the game plays. Alternating ship activation, which I like better than ygig. In boarding actions you first do a captains duel, and then the crew fight. Different orders allowed more movement, repairs, etc. Ship speed per turn, and number of inches needed between 45 degree turns is similar to other naval games I've played.

Suitably different to Man O War as well.

Agree on the activation thing. Makes more sense the fewer models are on the board, and opens up quite a bit of tactical subtlety (activate one ship to bait another into a bad situation etc).

htj wrote:For cost-product balance it's probably the cheapest thing GW have produced in years.

Cheapest as in for total buy-in? Probably.

But the best value GW has put out in years has to be Assault on Black Reach, and Island of Blood. Both of those box sets are examples of how to rope in potential buyers.

Kilkrazy wrote:How much was Space Hulk -- £60? I can't remember now.

Close, it was £58.50 from GW.

Finally actually got the Mrs to order mine tonight.

The sample turn on the GW site looks like the rules should be okay as well, but we shall see.

Ah well if Mrs Notprop is buying you may put me down for one please.

I cant see buying this to have the sea matt. thats a huge waste of money. I also cant see buying this just for some sea figures that have the GW brand name. If you want good sea figs, look elsewhere. There are plenty of makers of fine, cheaper, higher quality ship models than GW. If you want a fun board game, i really doubt that this will rank when compared with the best board games out there for dynamic play and tactical complexity. If you want that you are better off buying something like settlers of catan or dominion. They are also about a third of the price.
But... if you are a hugely fixated with brand loyalty to the point where you only eat lucky charms, wear levis pants and izod shirts, you willl only ever drive a Ford. If the amount you would pay to have brand name you want is limitless and if GW is your chosen brand name for games. this is the game for you.
Otherwise i would suggest going to boardgamegeek.com and looking around at all the other options that there are to choose from when it comes to board games.

sennacherib wrote:I cant see buying this to have the sea matt. thats a huge waste of money. I also cant see buying this just for some sea figures that have the GW brand name. If you want good sea figs, look elsewhere. There are plenty of makers of fine, cheaper, higher quality ship models than GW. If you want a fun board game, i really doubt that this will rank when compared with the best board games out there for dynamic play and tactical complexity. If you want that you are better off buying something like settlers of catan or dominion. They are also about a third of the price.
But... if you are a hugely fixated with brand loyalty to the point where you only eat lucky charms, wear levis pants and izod shirts, you willl only ever drive a Ford. If the amount you would pay to have brand name you want is limitless and if GW is your chosen brand name for games. this is the game for you.
Otherwise i would suggest going to boardgamegeek.com and looking around at all the other options that there are to choose from when it comes to board games.

Define board game.

Every single board game I can think of includes a board/playing surface with squares/hexes/spaces/zones or some other drawn on or marked mechanism to control movement and any interaction between game pieces.

This game does not have that. In my mind that makes it a table top miniatures game.

I think this game has a lot going for it besides to 'brand loyal' folks. Very nice components, similar ones from other companies are at least as expensive (check sea mats and islands for example).

I am NOT a GW fan boy. Check my gallery, most are non-GW figures and the Marines and Tyranids I have I use with other rule systems. I haven't played 40k since I played the scenarios that came with the BFM set I bought. I have bought and played the new edition of Space Hulk. That was my last GW purchase.

I see this as a cool Game in a Box for tactical fantasy naval engagements. I like it for that and the nice components so have pre-ordered it. But I am anything but a 'brand loyal' person like you describe.

I think this game has a lot going for it besides to 'brand loyal'

I know what you mean and apologies for taking this out of context.
But it just made me think that very likely the sales will go to GW fans with very few if any going to people unfamiliar with the brand or wargaming.

If the game had been made more widely available rather than limited edition it may have helped recruit new players to the GW systems.
Apologies if this point has already been raised, but have not seen it mentioned.

I would love to buy it, but that would mean forfeiting buying a lot of other warhammer.
It's just so damn expensive!

No for me for plenty of reasons. First off, I'm primarily a scifi player and have only had an interest in certain units or figs from fantasy lines outside of D&D figs. Secondly, I'm not interested in giving GW much more of my money anyways with their fiasco earlier this year.

Lastly, I don't think it's a good deal overall. Space Hulk had many more things going for it as a splash release... it was a reissue of a game that has cult status among old time 40k fans which was unavailable for years, it had very nice minis that were completely usable in normal 40k games with some minor base conversions, and it was a steal $$$ wise compared to buying vanilla versions of the same figs (two squads of terminators plus two boxes of genestealers is easily more $$ than the cost of space hulk box at the time). Sure the figs were monopose (but cool poses) and the termies were Blood Angel branded but the simple monetary value was easily there.

A sea mat costs 37 from Monday Knight and is not as nice.

Smaller islands cost 30 a set from GF9

That is alread 67 out of 115. Say the ships are worth 5 each, that would be 117. Add the cards, rules, dice...

I'm guessing the ships would be worth more than 5 each too. An imperial cruiser for Uncharted seas for example is almost 10 bucks...

CptJake wrote:A sea mat costs 37 from Monday Knight and is not as nice.

Smaller islands cost 30 a set from GF9

That is alread 67 out of 115. Say the ships are worth 5 each, that would be 117. Add the cards, rules, dice...

I'm guessing the ships would be worth more than 5 each too. An imperial cruiser for Uncharted seas for example is almost 10 bucks...

Hmmm. Wonder if folks will split any of these on ebay. It's not as easy a thing to do as spulk, less need for ships than terminators in other games. But it makes me wonder about expanding the game by using ships from more than one set. Maybe add other ships from a similar sized range.

I may just keep two sets for myself.

Nope, too expensive for me to even consider aborting my "buy no more GW stuff" policy. Grey Knights on the other hand is looking more and more tempting...

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Ah well if Mrs Notprop is buying you may put me down for one please.

Not until you get off that damn computer and finish your chores young man!

lol
You don't know just how valid that is!
Except for the young man part

Aw, c'mon Chibi.

We all know you're a child at heart.

And in mind.

Yeah it is all too true
I don't mind the child at heart, it is the second child in the head that is of concern.

Was in my Local GW two days ago and the manager was more or less trying to convince me to buy this game. I thought be polite let him fire out his pre rehearsed spiel, when i said "oh its like Man O war back in the day" he looked at me blankly....damn i felt old. Then he told me the price and i was like nah its ok mate GOW3 came out today.

insaniak wrote:Being value for money and being an attractive purchase aren't always the same thing.

I think that's well said.
I'm in the to expensive category though. I don't think it's adequate value for the money. But I have always thought that stand alone games over 50$ are always a tough sell.

It's an okay concept. I can't see myself spending that much money on something I probably won't play. Plus the Orcs and Goblins are not represented, they are the most pirate like IMO.

mattyrm wrote:

Luco wrote:

Try college student paying out of pocket and you'll be a lot closer to the mark, in my case. You have $115 to just drop on something? $130 for shoes? I think I need to change my major to get wherever in life that you are. I'll be there one day...I think. -sigh-

Good news Luco! You dont need a college degree to join the Royal Marines, merely a strong chin, iron will, and a willingness to stab strangers in the face on the queens orders.

Sign up today! /salute

Looks like I need to get in shape and hop across the pond.

I was looking forward to something a little better than an attempt at rehashing Man-o-War. I prefer the look of 'Uncharted Seas' for a naval battle game, at least you can choose your ships instead of CW doing it for you.

Blarglord wrote:Plus the Orcs and Goblins are not represented, they are the most pirate like IMO.

More than Dark Elves, which are also absent?