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What is SOPA?

junk wrote:A model relying on WD publications would certainly make a WD subscription almost mandatory for competitive players, and fits with GW's policy of punishing their fan base for loving the game.

If the WD stuff was regularly compiled and sold as a book like it used to be, that problem isn't as big of a deal.

Davor wrote:What is SOPA?

Stop Online Piracy Act... it's a measure moving through the US Legislature. Places up to a 5 year prison sentence for illegally publishing the IP of others and distributing or manufacturing knock-off goods. Charges could also be brought against the owners of websites that link to such content, including advertisers and search engines, or provide payments to such websites, like Paypal. In the other chamber, we have PIPA (Protect IP Act) which basically does the same thing. Neither is gaining support after very vocal protests.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Rented Tritium wrote:

junk wrote:A model relying on WD publications would certainly make a WD subscription almost mandatory for competitive players, and fits with GW's policy of punishing their fan base for loving the game.

If the WD stuff was regularly compiled and sold as a book like it used to be, that problem isn't as big of a deal.

I'm telling you... digital subscriptions. WOn't it be so much easier when we will all have the latest updated downloaded to the chips in our brains?

Anpu-adom wrote:

Davor wrote:What is SOPA?

Stop Online Piracy Act... it's a measure moving through the US Legislature. Places up to a 5 year prison sentence for illegally publishing the IP of others and distributing or manufacturing knock-off goods. Charges could also be brought against the owners of websites that link to such content, including advertisers and search engines, or provide payments to such websites, like Paypal. In the other chamber, we have PIPA (Protect IP Act) which basically does the same thing. Neither is gaining support after very vocal protests.

Thank you, will reread the posts now and see if it makes sense.

So how will this effect "homemade" rules then? I find it so fracking funny that Warseer claims that the "leak" is fake and they wouldn't let people talk about it untill now that it is "known" that it's fake but they have all these homemade rules and "house rules" on thier site. So will this mean they and even Dakka Dakka will have to take them all down then? Would that also mean we can't "quote" rules from the book now since that will be publishing thier IP then?

Davor wrote:
Thank you, will reread the posts now and see if it makes sense.

So how will this effect "homemade" rules then? I find it so fracking funny that Warseer claims that the "leak" is fake and they wouldn't let people talk about it untill now that it is "known" that it's fake but they have all these homemade rules and "house rules" on thier site. So will this mean they and even Dakka Dakka will have to take them all down then? Would that also mean we can't "quote" rules from the book now since that will be publishing thier IP then?

I took a law class a few years ago (it wasn't for future lawyers, just the people who get run over when lawyers get involved in things). The main point of the class was this: [b]You can't stop someone from suing you if they are willing to pay the lawyers.[b] Warseer is clearly afraid of GW. Beasts of War is being careful to tip-toe around GW as well, but they are doing it rather adroitly, not in the heavy-handed way Warseer is. Dakka's policy on publishing points is also out of respect for GW's IP. Could GW take offense of any of the things the community websites are doing and try to shut them down? Yes. Will they win in court? Well... their lawsuit against Chapterhouse is illustrative. Modern courts are designed to take a long time.
Like others have said... GW would have to sue where the website is housed, and that means the USA for Dakka. SOPA and PIPA aren't likely to pass, and aren't likely to take effect soon even if they do pass (plenty of legal challenges stand in the way of that too!). I don't think that there is too much to worry about for Warseer, BoW, or Dakka (or any other community site). As long as those posing as journalists continue to review and critique material, we'll have that legal ability as well.

Davor wrote:

Anpu-adom wrote:

Davor wrote:What is SOPA?

Stop Online Piracy Act... it's a measure moving through the US Legislature. Places up to a 5 year prison sentence for illegally publishing the IP of others and distributing or manufacturing knock-off goods. Charges could also be brought against the owners of websites that link to such content, including advertisers and search engines, or provide payments to such websites, like Paypal. In the other chamber, we have PIPA (Protect IP Act) which basically does the same thing. Neither is gaining support after very vocal protests.

Thank you, will reread the posts now and see if it makes sense.

So how will this effect "homemade" rules then? I find it so fracking funny that Warseer claims that the "leak" is fake and they wouldn't let people talk about it untill now that it is "known" that it's fake but they have all these homemade rules and "house rules" on thier site. So will this mean they and even Dakka Dakka will have to take them all down then? Would that also mean we can't "quote" rules from the book now since that will be publishing thier IP then?

SOPA and PIPA have been dropped, but they were basically poorly-enforceable at best, likely to cause problems with legitimate services at worse. For example, a plausible scenario would be that a Copyright Holder (so, theoretically, nearly anyone. In reality, likely someone with some pull like a major studio, record label, etc.) could go after a service and that service could be black-listed without proof of infringement. So I'm a rep for a major studio, I see a video that looks too close to some IP of mine, I can call upa nd get YouTube shut down and worry about proving it later. Ugly. This may be the worst-case taken to extremes, though.

The blocking was apparently to be done at the DNS level, though. This means it would have been semi-effectual at best as there's a lot of ways around bad DNS. The simplest would be using an IP for a site which would mean that (as with many 'anti-piracy' laws) it would probably be annoying and stop a few bottom-tier 'consumers' but wouldn't do much to the serious copyright infringers (who are likely advanced enough to use a non-US DNS, edit a Hosts file, or otherwise get around things.

So, the big question is who would lose money from this? The answer is a lot of people. There's been some rumblings that a lot of big companies were considering moving hosting operations out of the US and this would be yet another incentive. To run a web host you need locations with good power (which is pretty common in the US compared to some countries), educated staff (again, the US is OK, probably not the best), good telecoms (We're mediocre), space (we're pretty good), and, most importantly, a telco-government relationship that is unlikely to start making demands to filter or otherwise mess with the hosted data.

Smaller ISPs would have had to upgrade to support the blacklist, which might have been the last straw for many.

Finally, as with many 'censorship' issues, the slippery-slope problem comes in. if today sites are black-listed for potentially hosting copyrighted material they shouldn't, who si to stop them being blacklisted tomorrow for hosting material that was reported as subversive or not-child-friendly.

Sorry for the rant.

If GW makes these changes then I'm all for it. I've only been playing for a few years, but I've seen some people lost interest in the game rather quickly because of the rules.

Everyones reaction to 6e

terranarc wrote:Everyones reaction to 6e

That is exactly what the current environment feels like with regard to the leakset! I got a real laugh out of that video (for the first 20 seconds or so)!

If these rumors are true, it would indicate that GW saw how much profit and popularity Privateer Press has been getting, and is turning 40k into that, which is a good thing.

BDJV wrote:

DoctorZombie wrote:

BDJV wrote:

warboss wrote:If they are moving to some sort of living rulebook with frequent updates, I certainly hope that they'll make it available for free download online in some basic fashion with less art (similar to the mini book that came with AOBR).

As great as that would be, I just cannot see GW ever doing that.

Am I the only one that likes the big hardcover books?

I think they are great! I cannot wait til we get full color hardback Codices!

Amen! The paperbacks aren't bound that well.

I like the hardcovers as well. The price is not bad either considering how long it is used for on a consistent basis

Leth wrote:I like the hardcovers as well. The price is not bad either considering how long it is used for on a consistent basis

Um, not that good of a price. At the price they ask for the Fantasy ones I can get a book twice the size for a mere $5-10 more. Yes a 500 page book for $45-55 as compared to a 200 page book for $42 dollars. Now if the books were larger or actually a decent quality, the one I purchased is already breaking down and I only read the stupid thing since I was thinking of playing fantasy but decided not to. The cover is softer than other Hard backs that I own and has crimped and split. The other companies larger book is 2 years older and only has crimps in the corners, caused buy me dropping it which was not done to the fantasy book. The only option that would make me say it was worth tha added cost would be knocking $10-15 off the cover price.

Their cheap compared to the paperback 40k books (esspecially C:SM )

BuFFo wrote:If these rumors are true, it would indicate that GW saw how much profit and popularity Privateer Press has been getting, and is turning 40k into that, which is a good thing.

Where I go to buy GW stuff, the guy told me that Warmachine has surpassed GW sales and is more popular than GW now. Hell I even bought a Hordes book once I found out how cheap it was and how cheap and good quality the minis are.

If 6th edition is more 5.5 then my money will be going to PP instead of GW then.

Davor wrote: Hell I even bought a Hordes book once I found out how cheap it was and how cheap and good quality the minis are.

I wouldn't call 3 riders for 52$ cheap:
http://privateerpress.com/hordes/gallery/circle-orboros/units/tharn-wolf-riders-unit
... or the 95$ warmachines either:
http://privateerpress.com/hordes/gallery/legion-of-everblight/battle-engines/throne-of-everblight

Kroothawk wrote:... or the 95$ warmachines either:
http://privateerpress.com/hordes/gallery/legion-of-everblight/battle-engines/throne-of-everblight

That's Blood Knight levels of ridiculous pricing right there.

Not cheap compared to a candy bar, but when you compare the scale of the games you do spend less. 15 points worth of models in warmachine (which is about 2 warjacks and a caster, with maybe enough points for one infantry (small) squad) gives a game experience comparable to a 500-750 point WH40K game. The benchmark 25 point games are roughly equivalent to the 1500-1850 point range games. The $$ required to field a warmachine or hordes army in those point ranges is easily less than 1/2 what it costs to field a game of 40K with the same length of play and game experience.

GW has already stated that the leaked rules are fake and were written by a guy they FIRED for that hogwash. They were more convoluted and hard to use. Why do so many people insist they are real. From a business stand point , it does not make a lick of sense. Why are people still talking about something that will not see the light of day? You may as well talk about Santa Clause and the Easter bunny they are not real also.

Black Dragon wrote:GW has already stated that the leaked rules are fake and were written by a guy they FIRED for that hogwash. They were more convoluted and hard to use. Why do so many people insist they are real. From a business stand point , it does not make a lick of sense. Why are people still talking about something that will not see the light of day? You may as well talk about Santa Clause and the Easter bunny they are not real also.

Did they? Only thing I've seen as an actual statement was "that leaked thing isn't 6th edition" which is very similar to "the new awesome thing coming out is totally not Spacehulk." - One month later: JK, it totally is Spacehulk. - GW

Black Dragon wrote:GW has already stated that the leaked rules are fake and were written by a guy they FIRED for that hogwash. They were more convoluted and hard to use. Why do so many people insist they are real. From a business stand point , it does not make a lick of sense. Why are people still talking about something that will not see the light of day? You may as well talk about Santa Clause and the Easter bunny they are not real also.

I think it's because a lot of the test games people have done with them indicate they're actually fun and fast-moving... So, essentially, people want them to be real no matter the truth.

Regardless of whether they're real or not, it's a great ruleset and people have been enjoying it - if the ruleset was just mediocre or a few minor adjustments to 5e the conversation would be over. The fact that it's so elegant and at the same time so different, means there's a lot to talk about as people continually discover new applications for their armies.

It's really enticing to speculate that wow my legion of the damned, that I spent 18 hours painting, isn't useless because I can do this with them... or this build that I've always wanted to try might be viable now because .... or whatever.

Eventually the dust will settle, new 'best' builds will dominate the meta, and conversations will all go back to minor list tweaking and pointless rules arguments and who's your favorite primarch, and here's my idea for how to fix (break) my hive tyrant....

It's really enticing to speculate that wow my legion of the damned, that I spent 18 hours painting, isn't useless because I can do this with them...

Please share this secret karate.

I don't know, I'm not one of those people; but I'd assume the ability to assault out of deep strike and fire rapid fire weapons is probably the reason.

Black Dragon wrote:GW has already stated that the leaked rules are fake and were written by a guy they FIRED for that hogwash. They were more convoluted and hard to use. Why do so many people insist they are real. From a business stand point , it does not make a lick of sense. Why are people still talking about something that will not see the light of day? You may as well talk about Santa Clause and the Easter bunny they are not real also.

As somewhat of a veteran, my glory days were back in 2nd edition and Herohammer, I have to say the change from 2nd to 3rd sets the precedent for change this radical (and, lets be fair, the gameplay change isn't that radical from 5th to 6th in a lot of cases it just represents some tightening up, some clarification and some consolidation. Along side a few big changes that one could expect in any edition change)

I rage quit 40k almost 15 years ago, as in the change from 2nd to 3rd my first game saw my Avatar gunned down by a bunch of Tac marines, fodder that until that point he had been completely unafraid of. I came back this year, with a few of doing a bit of painting with one eye on collecting a force (and am now about to start on my second army, that worked out well!) I am excited for 6th, if this is what it is, and I can see a couple of my gaming friends returning to 40k as their focus, friends who at the moment are slowly drfiting more and more towards Warmachine.

So, from a businesss stand point, you have old and cynical veterans reinvigourated and excited by the game again, and assuming the rumoured companion set of beginner rules pans out, you still have a game that younger players and beginners can pick up and start to play. Its a win/win. As with many others, my overriding sense of doom for these rules is that it seems too good to be true, and you know what they say about things that appear that way!

Black Dragon wrote:GW has already stated that the leaked rules are fake and were written by a guy they FIRED for that hogwash. They were more convoluted and hard to use. Why do so many people insist they are real. From a business stand point , it does not make a lick of sense. Why are people still talking about something that will not see the light of day? You may as well talk about Santa Clause and the Easter bunny they are not real also.

1.) GW made no such official statement.
2.) Do you see the irony in claiming that this ruleset was not written by a GW game developer and then confirming that they fired the GW game developer who has written this?
3.) GW officially said that the special box in 2010 will not be Space Hulk. But it turned out they lied. And most people were aware of that and still remember.
4.) Currently I think this is an early playtest version by GW. But even if not, it is a fine set of rules and the writer should be promoted instead of fired. Makes no sense otherwise, from a business stand point.

-Loki- wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:... or the 95$ warmachines either:
http://privateerpress.com/hordes/gallery/legion-of-everblight/battle-engines/throne-of-everblight

That's Blood Knight levels of ridiculous pricing right there.

That thing is actually huge and resin, so not really

Kroothawk wrote:

Black Dragon wrote:GW has already stated that the leaked rules are fake and were written by a guy they FIRED for that hogwash. They were more convoluted and hard to use. Why do so many people insist they are real. From a business stand point , it does not make a lick of sense. Why are people still talking about something that will not see the light of day? You may as well talk about Santa Clause and the Easter bunny they are not real also.

1.) GW made no such official statement.
2.) Do you see the irony in claiming that this ruleset was not written by a GW game developer and then confirming that they fired the GW game developer who has written this?
3.) GW officially said that the special box in 2010 will not be Space Hulk. But it turned out they lied. And most people were aware of that and still remember.
4.) Currently I think this is an early playtest version by GW. But even if not, it is a fine set of rules and the writer should be promoted instead of fired. Makes no sense otherwise, from a business stand point.

You forgot to mention the irony of him whining that people are still talking about this ruleset while he is doing the exact same thing. His post's lack of internal consistency and ignorance of GW's past action have actually reinvigorated the thread somewhat.

Rented Tritium wrote:

-Loki- wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:... or the 95$ warmachines either:
http://privateerpress.com/hordes/gallery/legion-of-everblight/battle-engines/throne-of-everblight

That's Blood Knight levels of ridiculous pricing right there.

That thing is actually huge and resin, so not really

Having seen them in person, they're not 100 dollars huge.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?prodId=prod1080037&_requestid=461746
^ That's 100$ huge. The throne is "bs pricing based on perceived value rather than materials cost or in game impact" huge. Most of the big kits for warmachine don't even clock in at point values that put them above heavy jacks.

Kroothawk wrote:

Black Dragon wrote:GW has already stated that the leaked rules are fake and were written by a guy they FIRED for that hogwash. They were more convoluted and hard to use. Why do so many people insist they are real. From a business stand point , it does not make a lick of sense. Why are people still talking about something that will not see the light of day? You may as well talk about Santa Clause and the Easter bunny they are not real also.

1.) GW made no such official statement.
2.) Do you see the irony in claiming that this ruleset was not written by a GW game developer and then confirming that they fired the GW game developer who has written this?
3.) GW officially said that the special box in 2010 will not be Space Hulk. But it turned out they lied. And most people were aware of that and still remember.
4.) Currently I think this is an early playtest version by GW. But even if not, it is a fine set of rules and the writer should be promoted instead of fired. Makes no sense otherwise, from a business stand point.

Occam's Razor says that the best theory is the simplest theory. The simplest explanation for the pancake rules is that it's a leak of a play-test document. Any other explanation requires a lot of mental gymnastics that aren't needed.

Who leaked it and why? Well... that is something completely different, and I doubt we'll know for sure.

Is GW under pressure from Mantic, Flames of War and Privateer Press to produce a tighter ruleset? Yes.
Is GW spending inordinate amounts of time producing rulebooks for 40k compared to producing models? Yes.
Is GW under pressure for releasing an underwhelming 8th edition for Fantasy? Yeppers.
Is GW under pressure to sell more models? Well, duh.
Does the pancake ruleset release some of the above pressures? You'd better believe it.