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otakutaylor wrote:I thought since the initial password for the .rar file was pancake that they'd be called pancake edition.

Though the pun JUST hit me, if they turn out to be fake...

"The pancake is a lie."

I wonder, if they are real, does using the word pancake have any significance?

Other than being delicious? Doubtful.

UsdiThunder wrote:
This ruleset is very good and if GW has moved to the same idea as what MTG has it will be a good business decision. MTG has had only 3 major revisions of their rules and that was in 1994, 1999, and 2009 edition. They are set to release their 13th edition of the core cardset this year.

Another benefit to moving into the MTG style of rules is that USRs, which are analogous to Keywords, make game design easier for them. It also makes the game easier to play for us. For example, in MTG 'Flying' is a keyword. They don't have to reprint the rules every time they create a card with 'Flying'. Everyone with experience in MTG knows what 'Flying' means going back 18 years. Imagine if Relentless, Rapid Fire, or Feel No Pain had that same power.

Hell the rules for MTG have been free the almost the entire life of MTG. You only ever had to buy the cards. Just think if GW moved to this model then all we'd ever have to buy would be the codexes and the models.

Funny eh, that GW says they are a Miniture company but still keep pushing, glues, paints, brushes etc... and rules. If the rules become free like Full Thrust now, and just concentrate on minis even with the high prices, I think people will still collecting more since they don't have to buy codicies it will feel cheaper and we will just buy more then. One reason why I don't but more is because I am not paying almost $50 (with taxes) for just a book when it can go to minis instead. So I don't bother collecting no more than 2 armies for myself.

The profit margins on items like brushes and hobby supplies can be huge. It is also an impulse buy that stores offer just as you checkout so you just buy em quick. They are a miniature company and usually do not make much money on the books from what I remember. Making a rule set that simply takes ammendments over the years allows them to spend time and effort where they make the most money....models and hobby supplies.

If this document is real, does it argue a later or earlier release date? Could we see a new edition in April?

thunderingjove wrote:If this document is real, does it argue a later or earlier release date? Could we see a new edition in April?

Probably not, probably a codex first (tau?) or at least a tyranid 2nd wave, and then 6e in the summer.

Anybody think that moving away from books and such might have something to do with the whole SOPA thing goin on in the U.S.?

I'm curious what book sale numbers are looking like with the rise of the internet pirate (argh, pirates). I certainly am not condoning the practice of stealing with the internet; however, in a future where it will become increasingly difficult for government to regulate the flow of information on the web, the intelligent business decision might be to move out ahead of the pirate curve, and to invest in creating a profitable business model in other aspects of the business.

Thoughts?

CpatTom wrote:Anybody think that moving away from books and such might have something to do with the whole SOPA thing goin on in the U.S.?

I'm curious what book sale numbers are looking like with the rise of the internet pirate (argh, pirates). I certainly am not condoning the practice of stealing with the internet; however, in a future where it will become increasingly difficult for government to regulate the flow of information on the web, the intelligent business decision might be to move out ahead of the pirate curve, and to invest in creating a profitable business model in other aspects of the business.

Thoughts?

I don't think Pirating rulebooks or codices is a huge deal for GW. Sure, it happens, but the things that count (models, brushes, and paints) you can't pirate.

However, I do think that GW could go a bit more "online" and make their rulebooks and codices in pdf form. I have a pdf rulebook I got from who knows where (really, it's just been on my comp for a few years. I have no clue where I got it or how) that is insanely useful (need to look up a rule? search function, away!), yet the only pirated codices are scans that range from great to the blurriest text imaginable. I really think that GW would be helping not only themselves, but everyone who enjoys the hobby. No more lugging rulebooks around, if you have a device that can open and read .pdf files, you have your rulebook and codices. Heck, I'm willing to bet they could lower the price by a few dollars and still make loads of money, what with the $0 is costs to make a file into a .pdf.

I like this. It is going to keep everything updated like a patch in a video game that can be made in two months when GW sees trends with an op unit or tactic. Plus it is going to only make the models better if more time and investment is put into them to make them even better. Hopefully all armies will be up to date and will be able to not be out dated or forgotten.

I think this is a step forward

hmmm this sounds like a decent plan, if it's true. I do like the leaked rules a lot, so I'm going to play a lot more 40K Games with "this" 6th than I did in all the other editions.
And if they keep the rules updated via WD Articles, than that's even a buy-argument for me...

Well can't wait for summer atm, this is just nervwracking

Talliostro wrote:hmmm this sounds like a decent plan, if it's true. I do like the leaked rules a lot, so I'm going to play a lot more 40K Games with "this" 6th than I did in all the other editions.
And if they keep the rules updated via WD Articles, than that's even a buy-argument for me...

Well can't wait for summer atm, this is just nervwracking

I agree, i almost dont even want to play anymore fifth...instead focusing on modelling and painting. Especially units that are super fluffy in the hope they are at least mediocre in 6th?! Rough riders!! WD is slowly improving.... releasing an E-version of this would be sweet, although i would still opt to buy the physical magazine because the nostalgia+novelty is worth it to me if they had actual content.

Talliostro wrote:hmmm this sounds like a decent plan, if it's true. I do like the leaked rules a lot, so I'm going to play a lot more 40K Games with "this" 6th than I did in all the other editions.
And if they keep the rules updated via WD Articles, than that's even a buy-argument for me...

Well can't wait for summer atm, this is just nervwracking

I really can see a subscription app model. Get your White Dwarf for $10 (honestly, probably $15... when does something go DOWN in price?) a month, and you get access to the digital version of the WD and the digital codices/ruling database app for your smartphone/tablet/computer. That'd protect their IP as good as anything because the actual files wouldn't be stored on your device, and pirates be limited to stitching together hundreds of screen shots (possible, but tedious). If it came with an army list creator, I'd be all over that package... and I don't have any type of smart phone!

The more batreps that I read of folks playtesting the leakset, the more that I believe it is a change for the better. Assuming they turn out to be real.

Even if they're not real, I love them and I'm pretty sure that these rules will become the standard among my regular group if 6e turns out to be a disappointment. Everyone I know who's tried them loves them; the games are so much faster with all movement combined into a single phase.

I haven't gotten to play them myself because I'm stuck in Tampa working, but I get regular phone calls from my friends every day with results and thoughts.

The first game they played was slow and confusing, and I was on video chat for the most part watching the progress and helping to clarify rules questions (my default role in the group seems to be moderator). Now that they have a few games handled, they're reporting in with 1.5 hour 2000 point battles, that just sound epic as hell.

ShatteredBlade wrote:I'm starting to wonder if they're going to start to follow the Privateer Press tactics of releasing new models and rules. Except GW would be " Hey, new Space Marine Terminator Type, they have two assault cannons! Oh, the rules are in the up coming white dwarf."

as longas one day i can have a terminat with two assult cannons and a cyclone i'm happy

junk wrote:Even if they're not real, I love them and I'm pretty sure that these rules will become the standard among my regular group if 6e turns out to be a disappointment. Everyone I know who's tried them loves them; the games are so much faster with all movement combined into a single phase.

How do you deal with Directed Hits influence on the game?

warboss wrote:If they are moving to some sort of living rulebook with frequent updates, I certainly hope that they'll make it available for free download online in some basic fashion with less art (similar to the mini book that came with AOBR).

If GW does go to this format I'm hoping that they go to a loose leaf binder thing, like the rules for Advanced Squad Leader or Star Fleet Battles, where we can replace the old pages that are changed with the new ones instead of having to buy an entirely new rule book.

From what I've discussed with them, directed hits have just become another factor of the game that needs to be considered. One of the players uses a few units of scout snipers and loves the hell out of the rule; but for the most part they report that directed hits don't come into play all the time.

Most armies can avoid the worst aspect of directed hits by either creating multiple armor groups within squads, or they might have access to 'shielding' units, or they can field a large volume of expendible units to intervene, or they predominantly run uniform squads where directed hits aren't as important.

Directed hits are really only valuable against differently equipped models within a squad that aren't differentiated into armor groups, cannot shield themselves in anyway, and are exposed to the firing unit without any intervening models.

That's not to say that it's an insignificant rule, but it's not a sky is falling worthy game aspect. It will occasionally suck for you, and it will occasionally be awesome for you, most of the time it will have limited significance.

junk wrote:From what I've discussed with them, directed hits have just become another factor of the game that needs to be considered. One of the players uses a few units of scout snipers and loves the hell out of the rule; but for the most part they report that directed hits don't come into play all the time.

Most armies can avoid the worst aspect of directed hits by either creating multiple armor groups within squads, or they might have access to 'shielding' units, or they can field a large volume of expendible units to intervene, or they predominantly run uniform squads where directed hits aren't as important.

Directed hits are really only valuable against differently equipped models within a squad that aren't differentiated into armor groups, cannot shield themselves in anyway, and are exposed to the firing unit without any intervening models.

That's not to say that it's an insignificant rule, but it's not a sky is falling worthy game aspect. It will occasionally suck for you, and it will occasionally be awesome for you, most of the time it will have limited significance.

One aspect I've paid attention to with the inclusion of Directed Hits was the necessity to give upgrade characters separate wargear to either give them in invulnerable save or different armor save from the rest of the squad. For example, a Necron lord with a scythe, Mindshackles, and an orb adds a lot of resilience and punch to a squad of warriors or Immortals but costs 90 points. To lose him in a volley of sniper fire can be a pretty big blow. To that end, in 6th it will be worth an extra 15 points to give him a sempiternal weave so that he won't die until his compatriots have all been assigned wounds first.

It's not game breaking but it is a factor to list building, for sure.

If this really is the case then they should use their brains and make both the BRB and future codex releases with ring bindings so you can print new stuff in WD and just slot it into the books.

CpatTom wrote:Anybody think that moving away from books and such might have something to do with the whole SOPA thing goin on in the U.S.?

I'm curious what book sale numbers are looking like with the rise of the internet pirate (argh, pirates). I certainly am not condoning the practice of stealing with the internet; however, in a future where it will become increasingly difficult for government to regulate the flow of information on the web, the intelligent business decision might be to move out ahead of the pirate curve, and to invest in creating a profitable business model in other aspects of the business.

Thoughts?

Pirating codices really can't be that big a deal. You need a hard copy for playing the game, and there's so much stuff spread out across the rulebooks/codex's it's impractical to scan each page and print it out.

Harriticus wrote:

CpatTom wrote:Anybody think that moving away from books and such might have something to do with the whole SOPA thing goin on in the U.S.?

I'm curious what book sale numbers are looking like with the rise of the internet pirate (argh, pirates). I certainly am not condoning the practice of stealing with the internet; however, in a future where it will become increasingly difficult for government to regulate the flow of information on the web, the intelligent business decision might be to move out ahead of the pirate curve, and to invest in creating a profitable business model in other aspects of the business.

Thoughts?

Pirating codices really can't be that big a deal. You need a hard copy for playing the game, and there's so much stuff spread out across the rulebooks/codex's it's impractical to scan each page and print it out.

I've seen it done. How much you spend in ink, paper, ect to print the book, vs just buying the damn thing is pretty debatable in all honesty..... Most people I know pirate the book as to read it/keep up to date with the newest rules. If their going to play, they buy the book proper.

SOPA is going to Die in the senate bro.

MDizzle wrote:SOPA is going to Die in the senate bro.

not likely seeing as they passed the NDAA bill

junk wrote:they're reporting in with 1.5 hour 2000 point battles, that just sound epic as hell.

Truer words were never spoken.

MDizzle wrote:SOPA is going to Die in the senate bro.

Doesn't matter if it does or doesn't for GW. There will always be people pirating things one way or another. Regardless, it doesn't put a big enough dent in GW sales to really do much damage so it's a moot point. Personally I'n hoping SOPA dies a well deserved death, but I know it won't affect GW sales at all.

Apologies if anyone has already brought this up. I was thinking today that the reason that this ruleset is so advanced may be to future proof it; I mean why release a rulebook that may have to last a lot longer than usual and only release a minor upgrade of the previous? When you think about it rulebooks have not in the past taken great leaps forward, so perhaps the reasoning with this one is to have it still viable to play up to 7 or 8 years from now? I would expect a steep price increase for it(as WFB was) and I'd be disappointed if it didn't offer anything remotely new or majorly revamped.
After reading all the pros and cons on the validity of this 'leak' I'd say that it is genuine. GW realise that regardless of the leak, players will be frothing at the mouth to get the official book. If its not, at least players have got a ruleset that makes sense!

KarlPedder wrote:If this really is the case then they should use their brains and make both the BRB and future codex releases with ring bindings so you can print new stuff in WD and just slot it into the books.

This is something I've thought would be a great idea for years. It would mean they didn't have to update fluff, just expand upon it as the editions go on.
The only problem is when it comes to faqs, codecies, WD and expansions replacing pages of the BRB... how do you then keep the BRB up to date for those people just jumping in to the game? Do you have professionally printed FAQ packs for purchase in-store, or do you have them included with WD, or do you insist people print off their own replacement pages?

A model relying on WD publications would certainly make a WD subscription almost mandatory for competitive players, and fits with GW's policy of punishing their fan base for loving the game.

Fishboy wrote:

ShottyScotty wrote:Oh, didnt see that part, I think I saw fire sweep, but I linked it to be a flyer doing a bombing run but with fire. Dont know why.
Anyway, flamers now have some more purpose, but more short range dont. But I LOVE pistols in assault. Using the pistol stats (depending on pistol) would be wonderful! (especially for pistols on guardsmen). Zeal pistols sound heavenly as a primary assault weapon.
Oh wow, what about a Vindicare assassin? He has an execticus pistol, it may become awesome.

It will be interesting to see what the liquifier guns do in CC. I can see wracks doing much better in CC with 2 in each squad and a hammy holding a 3rd if they can get a good AP roll

my guess is they will end up AP 4

Lockark wrote:

Harriticus wrote:

CpatTom wrote:Anybody think that moving away from books and such might have something to do with the whole SOPA thing goin on in the U.S.?

I'm curious what book sale numbers are looking like with the rise of the internet pirate (argh, pirates). I certainly am not condoning the practice of stealing with the internet; however, in a future where it will become increasingly difficult for government to regulate the flow of information on the web, the intelligent business decision might be to move out ahead of the pirate curve, and to invest in creating a profitable business model in other aspects of the business.

Thoughts?

Pirating codices really can't be that big a deal. You need a hard copy for playing the game, and there's so much stuff spread out across the rulebooks/codex's it's impractical to scan each page and print it out.

I've seen it done. How much you spend in ink, paper, ect to print the book, vs just buying the damn thing is pretty debatable in all honesty..... Most people I know pirate the book as to read it/keep up to date with the newest rules. If their going to play, they buy the book proper.

That's pretty much what I do. Actual books for the BRB, expansions, and dexes I play, PDFs for everything else. I'm not spending a couple hundred dollars just to stay current on what I'm going to be up against.