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My first 2 figures have sprues with extra weapons I'm hoping to eventually do a few different sprues and sell them as upgrade bitz packs.

Gotta get all the regular figures done first though

Necros wrote:My first 2 figures have sprues with extra weapons I'm hoping to eventually do a few different sprues and sell them as upgrade bitz packs.

Gotta get all the regular figures done first though

I always love to see historicals doing well so cheers.

And, here's El Jefe!

Here’s the pics for the last 2 of the Bandidos Mexicanos that will go in the gang starter set.. Esteban “El Cutador” Cruz and Susana la Loba!





Next, Brother Vinni will be sculpting 3 of the Vigilance Committee figures and I’ll show those off as soon as I get them. In the next day or so I will also have the greens for all 5 of the Bloodwolf Tribe and 1 Vigilance Committee deputy from Bob Naismith, and I’ll post up pics as soon as I can

Any chance we can see the Clancy Gang in their entirety, or at least the finished Wrassler?

Yep, soon as I get them painted up I'll get take some group shots I don't actually have the figures in hand, we got the masters but they were sent to Game Salute, who just left for Origins and missed the delivery since FedEx is slow :( But I'll take the pics as soon as I'm able

Hey folks.. just a quick note to say I'll have some close up and nicer shots of the Bloodwolf Tribe to show off later tonight. I got the figures and they look really great in person. Lots of fine detail that just wasn't there in the photos from the sculptor.

And another thing I wanted to throw out there... With the game being so new and "barely released" right now, I've been wondering if it would be wise to change gears a little bit and convert the game world over to a "Fantasy Western" setting. Same idea as it is now, outlaws vs lawmen in the wild west. Only, the world is also inhabited by fantasy races like halfling gunslingers hanging out in the saloons, elven drifter bounty hunters, dwarven hillbilly mountain men, that sort of thing. It would be a world dominated by humans, so the gangs currently in production are still the "big 4" factions for the game. Future releases would mix these other races into the current gangs, add in new gangs and hired guns.

There wouldn't be any wizards or overly supernatural things. In this world, magic faded out and gave way to industry and technology and it's pretty much gone from the world now. These fantasy races are just mixed in with normal humans and regular citizens. There will still be Colt 45's and Winchesters, it'll still be in the USA, just an alternate world kind of thing.

It's a game world I'd love to develop and it's been in my head for a long time now. I guess right now I'm wondering if it's a good idea to convert & expand upon the current game, or put together an all new and separate game, more like "Blackwater Gulch: Fantasy in the Old West" ? Guess I'm just trying to think of the best way to approach it. I don't want to tick off the people who are into the game currently as a historical game, but at the same time I want to expand the game into a cool & original product line.

Anyway, what do you think?

Well I think having a Fantasy side expansion later on would be pretty neat after the base game establishes itself. Especially if you're a fan of Deadlands or something

You might want to expand on it at a later date, it might give people a wrong idea about where the funds go.

I say add an expansion down the line.

Blackwater Gulch: Fantasy in the Old West sounds like a great idea. But I would keep it to an expansion to see how well it does before you go down the path.

Personally the realistic aspect of the game is what lead me to kickstart it.

Just as an aside, are there any plans to make the remainder of the Clancy gang available separately? I bought both the Bounty Hunter and Gambler models when they were sold separately but I gather you are no longer going to have the single blisters available? I want to get the Clancy Gang but already have two of them!

No, you don't have any Clancy figures, you have 2 Hired Guns now Hired guns are meant to be characters that can fit into any gang, you can hire 1 for every 5 models in your gang. Or, you can just use the figures as your own members if you want to design your own gang. I'll have a rules update explaining all of that stuff shortly. So, the Clancy's are all different. They were in the pics on the Kickstarter page. It's the guy running with 2 pistols, girl bandit, wrassler with sledge hammer, kneeling bandit, and the left handed bandit guy. We just got the master sculpts and will be sending them out for paint shortly Also, after the initial release we'll be doing 3-man add-on sets for each gang with all new figures too.


An expansion would probably be a better idea. I've also been planning a Space Hulk-ish board game. Most mechanics would be similar to the skirmish game, and characters would have the same kinds of stats and skills, the character cards would look similar too. Then if players wanted to they could use the board game heroes in their skirmish gangs, or add skirmish gang characters to the board game. But, it would be 2 separate products. So, that could work as the fantasy game since it will be like a whole separate product and audience, being a board game and all.



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Oh and I also have a writer on board, Jonathan Peace, who will be helping out with fluff and fleshing out the game world.. since my writing style is pretty much all textbooky. He wrote some fluff for the game already, the short story in the rulebook

Necros wrote:No, you don't have any Clancy figures, you have 2 Hired Guns now Hired guns are meant to be characters that can fit into any gang, you can hire 1 for every 5 models in your gang. Or, you can just use the figures as your own members if you want to design your own gang. I'll have a rules update explaining all of that stuff shortly. So, the Clancy's are all different. They were in the pics on the Kickstarter page. It's the guy running with 2 pistols, girl bandit, wrassler with sledge hammer, kneeling bandit, and the left handed bandit guy. We just got the master sculpts and will be sending them out for paint shortly Also, after the initial release we'll be doing 3-man add-on sets for each gang with all new figures too.

Ah right - check!

I would be against the idea of making it a fantasy western unless it was a completely different expansion set that was not forced into the main game. I enjoyed the idea of a historical western setting.

Maybe an alternate reality like "blackwater nightmares" as an expansion would allow you to expand the models and the game rather than altering what you started with.

The_Stormrider wrote:I would be against the idea of making it a fantasy western unless it was a completely different expansion set that was not forced into the main game. I enjoyed the idea of a historical western setting.

Maybe an alternate reality like "blackwater nightmares" as an expansion would allow you to expand the models and the game rather than altering what you started with.

Ill agree completely. Keep the base game as the semi-historical theme...but definitely keep some funky side expansions in mind.

Agreed, Blackwater: Midnight Showdown [i]would be amazing, but I think keeping it separate from the main game is a good idea, many will appreciate a purely historic setting.

Yeah, keep it separate would be my suggestion as well.

But by all means, eventually (quickly?) introduce some sort of 'fantasy' element to it - I know that's when I'll jump on board!

Thanks folks, it's settled.. expansion it is but characters will be fully compatible with the 2 different settings for the folks that want to cross over, we'll do some optional rules to tie it together. The fantasy game will be more of a board based game with plasticy figs and tons of leaping vorpal jackalopes in the box.

Main game will still be the same skirmish historical with metal figs the old fashioned way

I want to stay away from horror themes though, and stick with traditional fantasy. Deadlands is already out there for horror fans and I don't want to step on their toes. And there's Malifaux too. I want to do something more original.

Lots of details to flesh out so this will take a while

I know my vote only counts once, but I'd prefer a 'skirmish' Old West game, not a Board Game version.

It would almost certainly mean I'd eventually play both, and buy figures for both.

If it is a board game, I'll probably end up giving it a pass, which means I won't buy anything at all!

Might be worth a vote/poll?

Well what I meant was, it would be a board game, but the stats for the characters and core game mechanics will be the same as the skirmish game, you could easily play the fantasy characters with skirmish rules, and vise versa. Basically 2 different product lines, but both are compatible with each other. just a matter of moving 6 inches, instead of 6 squares. That sort of thing. I'm guessing we would also be offering the figures separately too, so if you didn't want to buy the board game you could just buy the models separately.

Good news then - thanks for the clarification!

And finally heres some new pics of the Bloodwolf Tribe greens. First, here’s the whole gang all together..



Next, here’s the description of the gang that will be in the rulebook:

The Saltpan Plains beyond the town’s boundaries are a dangerous place filled with many hazards. The terrain is harsh and tough as are those that choose to live upon its dusty back. Hidden amongst the boulders, outcrops and scrub are many tribes of Indians, most famous being The Bloodwolf Tribe. Hardened against the elements and fiercly loyal, the Bloodwolf have their own reasons for coming into the town of Blackwater Gulch.

Their true names are a secret only those within the Tribe will ever know, so when they came raiding into town, or were seen from a distance, the people of Blackwater Gulch gave them their own nicknames. Their Chief is “The Hawk”, his tomahawk a deadly mix of weapon and totem. “Boneshirt” scouts for the Tribe, his longrifle keen to pick out distant targets while “Top Hat” is keen to stand and fight, gunslinger style. “Mohawk” and “Spearman” are ferocious, deadly warriors, comfortable in any terrain as they are in the streets of Blackwater Gulch.

And last but not least, here’s a few closeup shots. I’ll have more to share in the next couple of days

No injin wimmin?

And, to chime in on the earlier thoughts...

My vote - Expansion for the Fantasy West stuff.. not core.

-P

I'll echo everyone's vote for seperate expansion. I think a lot of the positive energy the game has had so far is due to the game's straightforward historical-esque setting. I'd love to see it expanded into a broader "Weird West" setting at some point as long as it doesn't replace the initial setting.

Also, since you know there's a demand for Blackwater Gulch as it is now, you risk shooting yourself in the foot with a genre change.

I know the idea behind Gangfight Games is to eventually release a number of skirmish settings around the core rules, so your second setting being based on a fantasy Wild West world would be an easy way to expand your offerings without having to come up with a completely new range of models from scratch.

I'd say work with your writer to fully develop the fantasy setting prior to releasing anything. You have history on your side with Blackwater Gulch, but for the fantasy setting you have nothing backing you up, so the more fleshed out it is the better it might be received. I think since you want to go for a more fantasy setting than horror, you're going to be working against a lot of expectations with games like Malifaux and Deadlands putting the idea of horror + wild west in everyone's minds.

Also, I'll add these ideas: Chinese goblins, robot cowboys, elf aristocrats, Chtulu-esque cultists, a mouse bandito character who is very fast..., crocodile indians, dwarf prospectors (of course...)

with regards to the robot cowboys, check out a graphic novel called Iron West by Doug TenNapel.

What will be interesting is once he releases the 'expansion', he'll be able to track sales accordingly.

It might turn out that the 'expansion' becomes more popular than the original...

It might be interesting to also do a semi-scifi side game... ala Firefly and Outlaw Star

The setting is awsome, as is.

I'm still mad I missed the Kickstarter, and am stoked on the direction so far.


As to the expansion- An example for you would be as with Red Dead Redemption. A sam peckenpah game, and then the expansion, with the zombies.

Your sub expansions cou8ld be tailored to fit different aspects of "Fantasy" Old West.

Steampunk, or that Wild Wild West "Inventor/ Federal agent Vs. the Mad Inventor

A Skinwalker/ Wendago hunt

A renegade gang of either possessed, or mutated indians

An undead, or possessed lone covered wagon medicine show- Whos Elixers, and potions spread ill fated curses, horrors, and things that go bump in the night.

Zombie civil war regiment, as in that one movie where they started rising off of battlefields, and ending up attacking the living.

"Into the Badlands." Bruce Dern plays a hunted Bounty Hunter- Who can come back from the grave.

Day of the dead, where in the old west, the horrors come out on every once inawhile. Then your not bringing old Zeke a horror every other gang fight, and they pop out in a random chance encounter.

The Skunk Ape/ Bigfoot/ Yeti

Chucicabre

Miner forty niner- Undead/ demon miner who fights for some random territory/ claim.

EVERYONES FAVORITE- Tremmors The scurge of the graboids.

Undead Siant of Killers.

Ghost riders in the sky........

The Man In Black.


Have the book/ suppliments as different aspects of the game, with different enemies antagonists to compliment the emerging factions/ gangs.


I can assure you that there are tons of horror cowboy movies for your "Research".

As to the fantasy aspect- Why not? Give them thier own suppliment.

I love your game, and the stuff your coming up with is efficient and fresh! As usual, Thanks for the hard work in there.
(I'm still interested in the tombstone guys, but am away as of yet, so keep them for me. I'll be in touch for them at a later date.)

No matter how many expansions you dream up, just make sure they are all cross compatable Necros, like the majority of Heroclix.
That way I can take Weird West Elves up against the BloodWolf Tribe without any hassles.

For the bloodwolves, no girls in the starter set but there will be some in the add on packs Just neglected to include them with the concept art I had done before, but they'll be there along soon. They're home right now, preparing the victory feast of buffalo and corn.

Had a long brain storming session last night, the fantasy stuff will be a separate game. But, the same basic rules so if players want to play fantasy characters with skirmish rules they can, and vise versa. So we'll have "Blackwater Gulch: Gangfights in the Old West" as one product line and then "Blackwater Gulch: Sixguns & Sorcery" as a different-but-similar product line. .. Sixguns & Sorcery is a working title..

Still a really long way to go yet. The main focus right now is the skirmish game, getting the Kickstarter gangs done and sent to the backers, and then the retail release and getting new figures done to keep expanding the line. The fantasy game will be a whole other product line developed separately. Lots of ideas flowing so we gotta grab the good ones and put it all together. The Game Salute folks want to see "A big, mean, evil sorcerer-gunslinger riding a dragon"

And yeah I'd love to do other genres too, sci fi would be great .. Could do horror but I really don't want to tread on the Deadlands and Malifaux toes so I'd have to come up with something more unique to my setting.

Could also expand the fantasy world too... al capone could be an orc