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Well I've just re pledged through Sodapop's site my $60. Don't know why they didn't go this route in the first place. Being a big fan of Anime and Manga, I can't wait to receive the game, artwork, and models. Funnily enough, it will arrive just in time for my Wife and I's holiday to Japan. Something to play on the Plane / Train which won't even raise an eyebrow over there.

To all the 'Moral Police'. I call you HYPERCRITES. The Alien Tentacle Anime theme is well established in Tokyo Pop Culture and raises no eyebrows whatsoever. This Alien Tentacle Rape is 'unacceptable' and wrong by your standards. Fine no issue, everyone is entitled to their opinion. We in the Western World have something called Freedom (or so I thought). You have a choice. If you don't like it, don't buy, look at it. What gets my back up is 'because I think it’s wrong, then it shouldn't be allowed'. As long as its legal, what’s the issue? Clearly there are no laws being broken by Sodapop, but people insist that their views are best ‘so let’s get the Project shut down’....

These same people crying 'burn the Tentacle Fans', are the same people playing Wargames. A game by its nature involves the mass killing of your opponent. Guns and Violence Galore, but this is acceptable. We have rules for running people over in Tanks, rules for killing wounded Soldiers, Mission objectives of killing the civilians, whist the opponent protects them. The Background describes forces exterminating entire races just because they are not human, and again, this is acceptable. People are awarded Kudos for modelling mutilated corpses showing blood exploding bodies, and yes, this is still acceptable. All the above in the REAL world would be wrong, immoral, etc. But this isn't the real world is it? Its fictional, it’s not real.

In Asia there are hundreds of such Card games using the same mechanics as Tentacle Bento, some with artwork even depicting actual penetration (it’s called Hentai Art) and again, in that part of the world it doesn't even raise an eyebrow. Its cultural thing over there; to which Sodapop are bringing that to the Western part of the globe, and I whole heartedly applaud them for it. If you don't like it, fine, don't support it. But don't go on your Moral High Ground to the people who do.
Personally I see Religion as an evil outdated method to control people through fear. “Do this, or this will happen when you die”. But we have Freedom in this world. So whilst I do not support or recognise someone’s religion, I don’t go preaching to them what I think they should do / not do. I respect their wishes, assuming it’s all lawful.

His Master's Voice wrote:How are some people able to even look at 40k is beyond me.

Indeed, this is a useful parallel. Apparently a race that wears the freshly-flensed skin of a man as a cape is not a problem.

Alpharius wrote:Providing a 'counter-argument' or just playing Devil's Advocate?

One can be a devil's advocate and provide a counter-argument. In fact, that's the purpose of the Devil's Advocate..

biccat wrote:

Manchu wrote:But that's not what you're saying; you're saying "I don't support it and if I had the power to do it I wouldn't let you support it here, either."

And you're saying you don't support Kickstarter's decision to ban the project, and if you had the power to do it, you wouldn't let Kickstarter ban the project either."

Um, sort of. Now let's unwrap the rest of the package. If I started a business to reduce the amount of barriers between people who want to create something and people who want to fund that thing then I would not use my business itself as exactly that barrier. So "if I had the power to do it, I would not let Kickstarter ban the project" turns out to be a pretty silly statement: "if I controlled Kickstarter I would ban Kickstarter from banning the sort of thing that Kickstarter is supposed to do."

Kickstarter not allowing certain projects to be funded is not equivalent to Kickstarter allowing those projects to be funded. The existence of a Kickstarter project does not obligate anyone to fund it. The Tentacle Bento Kickstarter, for example, in no way forced RiTides or anyone else who found the project unacceptable to support it. Suspending the project, however, forces everyone who would like to support it to find somewhere else to do it.

Manchu wrote:Um, sort of. Now let's unwrap the rest of the package. If I started a business to reduce the amount of barriers between people who want to create something and people who want to fund that thing then I would not use my business itself as exactly that barrier. So "if I had the power to do it, I would not let Kickstarter ban the project" turns out to be a pretty silly statement: "if I controlled Kickstarter I would ban Kickstarter from banning the sort of thing that Kickstarter is supposed to do."

It appears that by "sort of" you meant "yes."

Manchu wrote:Kickstarter not allowing certain projects to be funded is not equivalent to Kickstarter allowing those projects to be funded.

Actually, it's exactly equivalent. In both cases Kickstarter is deciding whether they want to support a project or not based on the expected return from that project. Alienating customers is a real consideration in that return.

biccat wrote:

Manchu wrote:Kickstarter not allowing certain projects to be funded is not equivalent to Kickstarter allowing those projects to be funded.

Actually, it's exactly equivalent.

Actually, no it's not. One course, allowing the project to be available for funding, requires no action on the part of anyone who might support it. The other course, the one actually employed in this case, does require action on the part of those who might support it -- namely to get lost.

Ouze wrote:

His Master's Voice wrote:How are some people able to even look at 40k is beyond me.

Indeed, this is a useful parallel. Apparently a race that wears the freshly-flensed skin of a man as a cape is not a problem.

Tbh I've never quite got the whole set up of our rating system. Violence seems to equal fine in pretty much all things, look at Dark Knight and the rating it got considering what goes on in that film, and yet as soon as something takes even a slight step towards Pr0n town, anything more than heavy petting "oh my god society is dying!" just makes me roll my eyes.

I have no real interest in owning this game mind, but I didn't see what folks where getting steamed up about and it didn't bother me that others where picking it up.
Like someone alluded to above, take a look at the actual Hental based games (tabletop or otherwise) you can get in Japan, and then come talk to me, I wouldn't get those either, but it would really put into perspective how this was quite tame in comparrison.

I'm more interested in the precedent this has set might go. Will Kickstarter can other projects folks don't like if they then complain?

What if someone has penned a novel that is anti Catholic throughout its story, and folks start complaining, do they dump that. Anti Republican? a Gay romance novel... better start thinking of those children.

biccat wrote:

Alpharius wrote:Providing a 'counter-argument' or just playing Devil's Advocate?

One can be a devil's advocate and provide a counter-argument. In fact, that's the purpose of the Devil's Advocate..

You and I both know that is NOT what many intend when "playing Devil's Advocate"... don't we?

Manchu wrote:

biccat wrote:

Manchu wrote:But that's not what you're saying; you're saying "I don't support it and if I had the power to do it I wouldn't let you support it here, either."

And you're saying you don't support Kickstarter's decision to ban the project, and if you had the power to do it, you wouldn't let Kickstarter ban the project either."

Um, sort of. Now let's unwrap the rest of the package. If I started a business to reduce the amount of barriers between people who want to create something and people who want to fund that thing then I would not use my business itself as exactly that barrier. So "if I had the power to do it, I would not let Kickstarter ban the project" turns out to be a pretty silly statement: "if I controlled Kickstarter I would ban Kickstarter from banning the sort of thing that Kickstarter is supposed to do."

Kickstarter not allowing certain projects to be funded is not equivalent to Kickstarter allowing those projects to be funded. The existence of a Kickstarter project does not obligate anyone to fund it. The Tentacle Bento Kickstarter, for example, in no way forced RiTides or anyone else who found the project unacceptable to support it. Suspending the project, however, forces everyone who would like to support it to find somewhere else to do it.

Well said, though it did almost make my head implode!

Ironically enough, now with Kickstarter out of the picture, Soda Pop stands to actually make a bit more on this project, maybe!

This doesn't surprise me, Kickstarter is an American website, and America, in general (not individuals, obviously, and not everyone in the entire country, obviously), has a giant-centipede-sized bug up its ass when it comes to anything sexual, explicit or implied.

Fountains of gore, casual cold-blooded murder, butchery, torture and mutilation though?

Totally A-OK U-S-A, come bring the children and enjoy the show!

Of course, it's their site, they have the right to ban anything they want. Should have done this at the review stage though, instead of being jerks about it.

I'd rather see this game as a miniatures game, or RPG.

I don't really like seeing pantywastes crying in thier tea over a game, so I'm leaning tword funding it on GP.

Theres too much of this "PC" propaganda going on to the point where people are taking stuff of this nature ENTIRLY out of proportion.

those two articles were written by halfwits, BTW.


as for Kickstarter- You know your weaksauce when your pulling the plug on a project for being too successful.


Once again- More minaitures, less Card games. We need more tenticles in our minis game... ( Thats Soda Pop Owes us. Still. )

Theres a couple of places for your japanese highschool girl hijinks, and theres a couple of pretty cool lord of the flies games I am looking at that have need of some tenticle infused miniatures.

I won't mention where to find them, but needless to say- they are a really cool read, and the red red groovie flows freely without prat PC monkeys going on and on.

Nothing says I love highschool like a classroom full of students pitted to fight to the death.

add one more six in there for the tenticle minion.


(Oh, and by the way- who is working on those Cthuhlu garters, I want some! )

Alpharius wrote:You and I both know that is NOT what many intend when "playing Devil's Advocate"... don't we?

No, we don't, apparently.

I mean it in the sense of advocatus diaboli*. Taking a position, whether one agrees with it or not, to engage in a discussion.

However, I think extended argument with Manchu is both OT and unproductive, so I'll leave the discussion to others.

* spelled it right the first time even!

Grot 6 wrote:I'd rather see this game as a miniatures game, or RPG.

...

http://atarashigames.wordpress.com/teachers-lounge/panty-explosion-perfect/

Or, if you want miniatures:

http://www.fiendishfabrications.com.au/html/pillow_a-go-go.html

That's another one that would have been banned from Kickstarter for being too "sick and twisted".

Won't somebody *please* think of the children?

Kilkrazy wrote:

Grot 6 wrote:I'd rather see this game as a miniatures game, or RPG.

...

http://atarashigames.wordpress.com/teachers-lounge/panty-explosion-perfect/

SHHH!!!


Your going to bring out the attention of the halfwits.


Your on the right track, though.


THAT's the game that needs 'em some tenticles.



Give them some love, point Soda pop at them.

http://127737.spreadshirt.com/ No shirts, GARTERS!!!!

Ouze wrote:

ceorron wrote:They clearly want to fund only clean projects with clean ideas.

What an upright citizen you are. Truly, your moral compass is a beacon that we all should follow; and I'm glad to have people like you on Kickstarter.

Just to clarify my viewpoint, I am disappointing that kickstarter pulled the funding of this project. It clearly was what people wanted after all it ws funded so it was what people wanted. So in this sense I think kickstarter are in the wrong however I do respect their right to choose what gets put through their website, not all project look good on the wider community and kickstarter clearly want to keep a clean image that this project was likely not have been helping them to keep.

What I really don't like is the way kickstarter have gone about this. If they were going to do this they should have stepped in earlier made their point of view know and saved everyone a lot of wasted time.

ceorron wrote:What I really don't like is the way kickstarter have gone about this. If they were going to do this they should have stepped in earlier made their point of view know and saved everyone a lot of wasted time.

On this, there is consensus. I have no problem, in general, with Kickstarter declining to allow what it considers to be "inappropriate content". They are a private business and you can always take your ball and go home.

What I don't like is that they initially approved it and then later shut it down, that they didn't tell the project owner first, and appear to have done it to appease a few public critics. You can't describe yourself using such phrases as "The filmmakers, musicians, artists, and designers you see on Kickstarter have complete control and responsibility over their own projects." when that clearly is not true; this project WAS "on Kickstarter". If you're going to support creative artists, you either need to be clear you're just a venue (Etsy is very good at this) or if you need to spell out more clearly what you consider "inappropriate".... and catch it in the screening process. A process that they completely control, might I add.

This is a big black eye for me for Kickstarter.

Is this where I post the picture of the Wetnurse? I wasn't sure.


Kickstarter has the right to not host the project.
KK has the right to not fund Kickstarter projects due to their business decision.

Kickstarter would also have the right to keep hosting the project.
People whom are offended have the right to not fund Kickstarter projects due to their business decision.



The only pertinent question is--does the negative reaction of canceling an (implied) tentacle rape game--outweigh the negative reaction of hosting an (implied) tentacle rape game. Very likely, it does not--so I understand their decision.

Personally, I'm in the "Eh, that's a pretty strange game but I don't really care if they host it or not" group.

My problem with this getting canceled and the whole issue in general is NOT the people who say "I disagree with this project and I can't bring myself to support it, nor would would I support it if it were my call to allow it."

My problem is the people who say " I disagree with this project. I'm going to write a million letters to Kickstarter to have it canceled right away."

Really? That's akin to Mitt Romney attacking a kid with a bleach blonde emo swoop because he didn't think it belonged in his enviroment.

I partly hold Kickstarter responsible. It doesnt appear to me the game upset their own moral codes, as it was reviewed before hand and even featured. They caved to pressure and cancelled the game because some people didn't like it.

Another example of the squeaky wheel getting the grease. That people haven't complained about Leisure Suit Larry Comes Again or The Smut Peddler is curious.

I can't abandon Kickstarter completely as they do some good work and enable things to hit market that normally couldn't, but I am disillusioned with them as a neutral supporter of all projects. Like Ouze said, it's a black eye on Kickstarter in general.

What is thier bottom line rules on projects of this nature?

Do they only pull funding when "SOMEONE" pees in the punchbowl? Or is it part of thier practice to pull a nearly funded project when it is indeed getting funded?

Who is responsible for the yeah or hell no! decision making for Kickstarter in general?


Kickstarter needs to tread a little lighter in this arena, thats for sure. Arbitrarily just yanking someones funding is parmount to negativly impacting the product- opening up legal arenas.

Yes, they are entirly in thier right to do what they want, but what happens when I'm damn near funded on my Henti garters, am at the producer of said garters, then Kickstarter pulls funding when I'm down seven large, because I'm a henti garter seller, with bills to pay?

More effects to consider when being a D bag on the public dime.

Never underestimate the power of a whining minority.

There's good odds that the people who complained were simply anonymous internet trolls who didn't actually care either way, but just felt like screwing with the project "4 THE LULZ111".

You never know with the internet, which has a large proportion of people who will try to screw up anything, anywhere just because they get kicks out of it.

Could be a genuine conservative christian writing the email or some greasy hate-filled unemployed 24 year-old who lurks on 4chan 8 hours a day. Impossible to tell.

yeah,

Manchu wrote: Awesome Post.

+1

Necros wrote:I doubt it got canceled because people at Kickstarter didn't like it, it got canceled because there was negative press about it and Kickstarter didn't want to look bad.

It's such a shame they buckled and ran at the first sign of some unheard of websites sabre-rattling... anyhow it's like they say 'there's no such thing as negative publicity!'

Kilkrazy wrote:...If you genuinely want to help fund creative projects you need to be able to take a bit of PR flak, not just your cut of the funding involved.

Kickstarter has fallen at the first hurdle. Their own guidelines say, if you don't like a project, don't back it.

Instead, they have allowed a small but vocal number of arguably excessively prudish people to dictate the site's mission...

This^^ - I concur and they could have jumped on top of all the negative press and came out on top smelling of roses singing their battle cry of 'come here to get your projects funded'

I've gone to Soda Pops website and pushed $50 directly into their pockets - those damn hippies wont tell me what I can or can not buy with my hard earned ( British pounds converted to ) American dollars...

Panic...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Grot 6 wrote:... Kickstarter needs to tread a little lighter in this arena, thats for sure. Arbitrarily just yanking someones funding is parmount to negativly impacting the product- opening up legal arenas.

Yes, they are entirly in thier right to do what they want, but what happens when I'm damn near funded on my Henti garters, am at the producer of said garters, then Kickstarter pulls funding when I'm down seven large, because I'm a henti garter seller, with bills to pay?

More effects to consider when being a D bag on the public dime.

sodapop email wrote:...Please, if you were a backer on Kickstarter, we still need your support to help us fulfill all our stretch goals to our supporters. We have committed to creating the promised materials...

your probabily right here - pulling the plug so late in the day could leave someone several thousand $ in the red and only legal recourse to settle the bill.

Panic...

Panic wrote:
I've gone to Soda Pops website and pushed $50 directly into their pockets - those damn hippies wont tell me what I can or can not buy with my hard earned ( British pounds converted to ) American dollars...

Panic...

To be honest, Panic, I don't think it is really the hippies that are against this, they tend to be the nonvocal minority that a lot of other minorities pick on a lot for, you know, being hippies.

Otherwise great points though.

yeah,
Communists?

Panic...

Kickstarter's reply to my inquiry about the cancellation of funding for Tentacle Bento:

Thanks for reaching out and for using Kickstarter. It's our policy not to comment on project cancellations. Our apologies for any inconvenience.

Best,
Kickstarter

Fair enough. I suppose drawing my own conclusions is the only possible route then.

Gymnogyps wrote:RiTides, I understand what you are saying, and I am in a similar place regarding this project. This isn't something that can be broken down to bumper stickers, so I think there may be some needless polarization in some other posts we are seeing here.

Personally, I am not really comfortable with this project, and have really been thinking about why...

A few have mentioned that this is parody. It is not. Parody requires humor, mockery, ridicule, as in the jester revealing hubris and showing it for what it is. I think if this project was true parody, it wouldn't evoke discomfort so strongly, for me at least.

I am perfectly aware this game, on the surface, is innocent. It makes me uncomfortable, though, because it is walking that wink-wink line. We all know what it is hinting around, giving nods to. The whole idea of "tentacle rape" is so alien (literally) that it evokes a deep, almost Lovecraftian horror and revulsion to me. I am so repulsed by it, even this product, which yes, is innocent on the surface, is too close for my comfort.

I get that others, with a different social/ cultural norm, may not feel that way. And that is fine. I am in no way judging what other people like. But i would hope they would allow me the same courtesy.

The above so closely resembles my own thoughts that it was just better to quote it.

I admit from the get-go that I have NOT watched the video. No speakers here. So, please forgive me if anything I say here is addressed in or refuted by the video.

From the start, I had ZERO interest in this product. I don't like anime or Soda Pop's art style. I'm also not looking for any new card games.
So, I ignored the project. The new title of this thread caught my attention, though. I was wondering, "How bad does something have to be for Kickstarter to cancel it?"
I can see now, what that criteria is.
Frankly, I think many who are outraged by the cancellation have blinders on.

First off, nothing I see about the actual game has ANYTHING to do with tentacle rape (which I'm disgusted by, for the record). Snatching of girls does not equal rape of any variety (tentacle or non-tentacle). It looks like this game could have just as easily been an "Invasion of the Body Snatchers" incarnation. It is ONLY about "snatching" (kidnapping) girls for, presumably, alien experimentation. Heck, that's something prevalent in our society. People are always claiming to have been snatched by aliens and probed/tested. I don't even see it as having been a parody of TR (Sorry. I get repulsed every time I type that phrase). I didn't see ANY mention of that in the description.
Fine.
In that respect, I could support the game and have ZERO issues with it.

But, then, they've got to go and put "Tentacle" in the name? I see no reason for doing that, EXCEPT to invoke the idea of TR. Considering my already established opinion of TR, you can presume how that changes my opinion of the game. I've got ZERO issues with the innate sexuality of the game, just the implications in the title.

This game does NOT explicitly or, as best I can tell, remotely refer to TR during or as part of actual game play. Those who make such accusations would be off base. That said, the game is immediately sullied by the controversial title.

It's also unfair to categorize this game as innocent. It's nothing like comparing Brushfile to bestiality or Furries unless, as said earlier, you sexualize the animals in Brushfire, put them in skimpy outfits, and depict them groping each other. The game itself isn't innocent, but also does not pass my threshold of "too far." It's the title that causes that for me.

Lastly, it's not censorship for Kickstarter not to allow them to use the site any more than it's censorship for me to choose not to back the project. Kickstarter's lack of backing is just on a larger and more public scale. Such is their right. Saying you won't support Kickstarter projects is unfortunately. Sure, KS gets some of your money, but you're also hindering many worthwhile projects with no other reasonable option for funding by removing your support for them.

Eric

MagickalMemories wrote:Saying you won't support Kickstarter projects is unfortunately. Sure, KS gets some of your money, but you're also hindering many worthwhile projects with no other reasonable option for funding by removing your support for them.

Well, those projects can always take Kickstarter's advice to Soda Pop Miniatures and "go somewhere else." Kickstarter is hardly the only or even the original crowd funding website. So the issue isn't "take Kickstarter or leave creativity." Rather, the issue is "Kickstarter is not really about creativity." As KK mentioned earlier, "If you genuinely want to help fund creative projects you need to be able to take a bit of PR flak."

I like how this:

Soda Pop's Kickstarter wrote:First: A note to our sponsors. Tentacle Bento is a mature themed product not intended for sale to children under the age of 17. In the long history of horrible combinations of tentacles and school girls, we have taken a cheeky satire look at the genre to create a silly, if not innuendo rich, product. We are firmly against the depiction of violence against women in any regards.

was there the whole time. Nothing like pre-empting your sponsers and letting them know that it's supposed to be a joke.

Edit: We literally posted at the exact same time.

MM - I get where your coming from, and I can appreciate that you don't like the overall theme of this game, everyone is after all entitled to their own opinions and their own set of values. There are many things in this wide world that I don't agree with or that I find distasteful.

There are a couple of different groups that are being generalized and represented in this thread and many like it across the interenet. There's the group you and I are a member of. Where we acknowldge that there are things out there that don't fit into our acceptable values, but they are things that are legal, enjoyed by others and don't actually hurt anyone.

Then there is the group that most of the hate is being aimed at. Thats the group that thinks that just because something doesn't fit into their world view it is inherantly evil and therefore must be stopped.

I have a major problem with people like this. I have a major problem with people that try and force their views on other people, be it religion, political or board game theme.

Its people who are forcing their views on other people that in my opinion got this game canceled, so therefore I have a problem with them without even knowing them.

I don't blame the people "forcing" their views on other people because they didn't.

It was Kickstarter who caved in and pulled a project that was within their rules and had been accepted for the site.

They should have had the balls to defend their principles and tell the nay-sayers to not fund the project.

Catyrpelius wrote:MM - I get where your coming from, and I can appreciate that you don't like the overall theme of this game, everyone is after all entitled to their own opinions and their own set of values. There are many things in this wide world that I don't agree with or that I find distasteful.

Ah, a friendly response. I live for those. : )
Just for clarity:
In one way, you've got my mischaracterized. I actually DO like the overall (general) theme of the game, which I see as "alien abduction." I think an alien abduction card game, if well done, is a GREAT idea. It's the title and other innuendo that I take issue with.

Catyrpelius wrote:There are a couple of different groups that are being generalized and represented in this thread and many like it across the interenet. There's the group you and I are a member of. Where we acknowldge that there are things out there that don't fit into our acceptable values, but they are things that are legal, enjoyed by others and don't actually hurt anyone.

Then there is the group that most of the hate is being aimed at. Thats the group that thinks that just because something doesn't fit into their world view it is inherantly evil and therefore must be stopped.

Re: Emboldened text

VERY true. The sad irony of the situation is that, typically, the most vocal members of BOTH sides seem to fall into this group.
Trying to get THEM to see and acknowledge that, however, is a different beast entirely. Eh?

Catyrpelius wrote:I have a major problem with people like this. I have a major problem with people that try and force their views on other people, be it religion, political or board game theme.

Understandable and agreed.

Catyrpelius wrote:Its people who are forcing their views on other people that in my opinion got this game canceled, so therefore I have a problem with them without even knowing them.

I think this is our only true point of separation, and it might not be THAT big of a point, really.

We don't *know* why the game was canceled, beyond the fact that Kickstarter chose to. It might be that they caved to what they felt was an overwhelming outcry against the game or it might be that they, as a corporation, took a look at this game and said, "Nope. That's just a bit too close to making a game out of rape for our tastes." Hell, maybe it was BOTH.
For me, even parodying rape is too much. I just don't see anything there worth making jokes of (again, folks, just my opinion - I DID NOT EMAIL KICKSTARTER).
Myself, I don't have an issue with people complaining to Kickstarter about the game. I really don't. They've got a right to say, "If you support projects that make rape -in any fashion- a joke, I will not support you," just as much as those in the opposite camp have a right to tell Kickstarter this about NOT allowing the project.
(Which reminds me. Those of you who are outraged @ Kickstarter about this project; did you email them to tell them how you feel? Did you tell them you'll stop supporting them if they don't reinstate the project or, at least, offer to? If you want your voices heard, after all, you've got to use them.)

To me, if people complained to Kickstarter, then Kickstarter should take another look at the project and decide if they want to allow it or not. If they don't, then they should be able to provide a solid, sensible reason. If they do, then they should support it and, as has been said, take the flack for it.

@ Manchu
Kickstarter might not be the only or the original... but I've never heard of any other (by name). Also, someone earlier posted a generic comment about how hard the other ones are to work with. Maybe that's why I've heard of KS, but none of their competitors.


Eric