biccat wrote:Are there any other areas where you think parents are chronically uninformed and should defer child-rearing to the proper experts?
So you've taken 'it is good when people with expertise in a subject teach it to others' into 'defer child rearing', which makes it pretty clear in your absence from the off-topic forum you didn't spend one second thinking of how you might become a better, more constructive poster. Shame, because now we're going to have to go through the same old teeth pulling exercise of me explaining basic social concepts to you over and over again while you invent ever more stupid bits of nonsense to avoid accepting you originally said something stupid. Ah well, here we go...
Having an expert explain something to me does not mean 'defering' from your teacher. If I watch the game on Sunday, and then read Monday's report on the game, I'm not deferring my judgement on the game to the paper, I'm getting more information from another source. More information is always a good thing, provided you want a person to be informed.
And when the parents aren't teaching things that are grossly untrue, the teacher's and the parent's efforts will be complementary, not in opposition. The only time accurate sexual health information is a problem is when people like to believe things that are not true, such as 'condoms don't stop AIDS' or 'abstinence only teaching works'.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Palindrome wrote:I am quite sure that Sebster agrees with me in that everybody needs to be taught things that they need to know both for their own wellbeing and for the wellbeing of society as a whole. The quality of instruction should be high and the content needs to be accurate and free of all bias; this is where parent led teaching fails, some parents may teach their children to a higher level than the state but far more are likely to give incorrect or inadequate instruction. For example some parents seem to think that abstinence is theo nly sex education that teenagers need, that clearly falls far short of the mark.
I do agree with you. In fact, when I read something like your post above I'm not sure how anyone could disagree, it makes such simple, straight forward sense. And yet we've got this thread anyway.
Automatically Appended Next Post: biccat wrote:How do you decide what is bias?
Committees made up of persons broadly recognised as experts in the field. I know you'd hate such a thing, because their conclusions will be in direct opposition to your abstinence only nonsense, but that's kind of the point.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Frazzled wrote:It takes a government mandated village to raise a family.
"Give students practical health advice on sexual matters, given by individuals well trained in the field" becomes "government mandated control of your children".
I mean, I know it's National American Passtime to complain about government intrusion, but for feth's sake.
Automatically Appended Next Post: biccat wrote:So teaching kids how to feth one another suddenly makes them better at math?
I'm not sure I understand how that works.
When girls stay in school because they're not pregnant, they learn things.
That'd be one of those facts you might have learned, if you'd ever learned about sexual health.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Frazzled wrote:Indeed, employing the aforementioned math skills I learened more gooder in dat der edumacation, its that there is a defined amount of learning hours in a day, school year, and academic life. Take time away from the classics for other classes, and you take time away from those classes.
Given the amount of dead time and repetition in high school teaching, I have a really hard time thinking how an ungraded class that's held once a week for 45 minutes will drain away teaching hours in any significant amount.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Kilkrazy wrote:I think it would be awesome if children were taught about stuff by their parents instead of people qualified to teach the stuff.
I want to know how biccat can guarantee that maths will be bias free. How do we know schools and
government won't bias the teaching towards that fancy pants calculus stuff?
And since when did we agree to
defer a parent's right to teach maths to some expert?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Squigsquasher wrote:All I know is that the further south you go, the more conservative and unsane it gets.
It's more that each state in the south is conservative and insane in it's own unique, special way.
Automatically Appended Next Post: PhantomViper wrote:You don't need to teach kids how to feth with each other, they learn how to do that pretty well on their own.
What you do need is to teach them how not to hurt themselves or their lives while doing it...
And the emotional challenges of sex, and how to know if you're ready for it.
Automatically Appended Next Post: biccat wrote:Sounds very "clinical and matter-of-fact" to me.
If you honestly believed that was representative of sex ed classes, then it would make sense for you to start to fight to improve the quality of teaching. Instead you offer a vague kind of support for abstinence only teaching while mostly talking about tyranny and parent's rights, which makes it sound like is just another half thought out extension of your general John Birch Society ideology.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Frazzled wrote:In Frazzled's world if you don't have money, if you don't have connections, you get the best education you possibly can and use it as your hammer.
That is extremely good life advice.
Seriously, I'm sorry if this text only medium makes that sound like sarcasm, because it isn't, and that is life advice I will most definitely be giving to my children.
Automatically Appended Next Post: biccat wrote:Should? Yes. But if you require the kids to attend classes on History, Philosophy, Literature or Art, then it is tyranny.
And here we have exhibit 37F on how biccat's ideology has driven him to so completely and utterly lose perspective, that he can no longer make useful comment on anything even vaguely relating to government.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Melissia wrote:Biccat's understanding of Tyranny equates to "anything I don't like".
He's basically just a John Birch Society style nut. There's plenty of them across the internet, and we've had a couple of others pop into dakka before.
The only way in which biccat distinguishes himself from any other Bircher is that every other one I've met quickly disappears from the forum after everyone laughs at them for announcing one of their silliest, most extreme views, such as 'having a mandatory art class is tyranny'. That doesn't seem to bother biccat.
Automatically Appended Next Post: biccat wrote:Any time someone makes you do something it's tyranny and limits your freedom.
Some people like being told what to do. Personally, I have a problem with it.
You might not value your freedom, I value mine. Whats more, I value yours as well.
Your understanding of freedom is naive at best.
Automatically Appended Next Post: hotsauceman1 wrote:Listen, Im going to say this simple, SEX ED SAVES MONEY, teenage mothers are more likely to end on welfare an those kids have little demons themselves. If we teach them what sex entails, what the hell can happen, and how to be safe and provide the means to be safe, it aint gonna happen.
It's also one of the best ways to break the poverty cycle and improve social mobility. One the biggest factors for girls in the poverty cycle is that poverty leads to teenage pregnancy, which leads to poverty, which leads to teenage pregnancy, and so on, generation after generation.
Considering how much people like to complain about poor people having so many babies, it is so utterly amazing that they don't want to give those people the tools to break the cycle.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Frazzled wrote:not at my school or the kkids school. We had to read crap like Great Expectations which made me want to commit suicide, and by suicide I mean go back in time and nuke England.
I think Dickens has been responsible for more people giving up on reading than anything else in history. I mean, I kind of like it now, because I've learned to look past the painfully verbose text and take the rest of it for what it is, but when I was 13 it was insufferable.
Automatically Appended Next Post: biccat wrote:Being told to tip your waiter or go to jail is tyranny.
So the restaurant adding an 18% tip automatically to the bill because you're a table of six or more is tyranny.
That's a very sensible opinion you have there biccat, truly the cornerstone of building a healthy, viable society.
Automatically Appended Next Post: BlapBlapBlap wrote:On the subject of Tyranny:
Surely you're only being Tyrannic if you force them to do it?
Really, the most important issue in determining if something is tyranny is the content. That's the thing biccat has tricked himself into ignoring, allowing himself to focus only on the mandatory element, and leading to the very silly conclusion that having a required class on sexual health is tyranny.
Providing real, important and truthful information can never be tyranny, because providing that stuff is empowering.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Vulcan wrote:As has been mentioned, the fifth option is self-education - looking things up in a medical encyclopedia (my sister's route, no internet at the time) or on the internet. This requires effort, and probably a fair amount of sneaking around, and the very real possibility of getting in BIG trouble with the type parents who are afraid to teach the kids themselves.
It also relies on kids stumbling into each of the very important things they need to know. The likely result is a kid who knows an incredible amount about the physical signs of syphyllis, but absolutely nothing about sexual maturity and the emotional reactions to sex. Or vice versa, of course.
Automatically Appended Next Post: dogma wrote:I see we're still laboring under the delusion that teen pregnancy has gone up in concert with the availability of sex education and contraceptives.
While at this point I'm almost certain biccat's insistance on that fact could only be the result of willful ignorance and that no evidence will make him accept the actual truth of the matter, I'll provide this CDC graph to set him straight anyway;
Automatically Appended Next Post: d-usa wrote:As opposed to "Sit down and listen to us scream, we'll decide what's good for you."
Or in many cases, 'we'll decide what's best for ourselves and then call it freedom'.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Melissia wrote:Or he's just trolling.
If biccat were trolling he'd be having more fun than we are. I think he really is this ridiculous.
