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biccat wrote:

PhantomViper wrote:Cool, I never realised I lived in a tyrannical state until now, because all those classes are mandatory in my country as well!

Palindrome wrote:Biccat you are a really interesting specimen. Attempting to claim that sexual education equates to tyranny has to be one of the most foolish things that I have ever read on the internet (and as you can imagine thats quite an accolade).

Any time someone makes you do something it's tyranny and limits your freedom.

Some people like being told what to do. Personally, I have a problem with it.

You might not value your freedom, I value mine. Whats more, I value yours as well.

So, being told to tip your waiter is tyranny? Following the Dakka rules is tyranny? Laws are tyranny? Government is tyranny?

Excellent thought, Biccat! If someone tries to tell me what to do, I'll tell them to piss off, and kill them and their families! Damn the law, it's tyrannical to make me do something I don't want to!

purplefood wrote:

Frazzled wrote:

Melissia wrote:Bah, the few times I went to Sunday school I thought it was far more tyrannical.

At least public school let you read lord of the rings.

not at my school or the kkids school. We had to read crap like Great Expectations which made me want to commit suicide, and by suicide I mean go back in time and nuke England.

I liked it...

THATS IT! (Pushes the big red button)

Frazzled wrote:

purplefood wrote:

Frazzled wrote:

Melissia wrote:Bah, the few times I went to Sunday school I thought it was far more tyrannical.

At least public school let you read lord of the rings.

not at my school or the kkids school. We had to read crap like Great Expectations which made me want to commit suicide, and by suicide I mean go back in time and nuke England.

I liked it...

THATS IT! (Pushes the big red button)

Whoa whoa whoa. That's a little drastic.

Here's the smaller big red button. The big one is just a Staples Easy Button.

Are we going to get back on topic?

We aren't actually discussing the definition of Tyranny.

And I never read Great Expectations. I like me some H.G Wells or Douglas Adams...

That explains the sudden appearance of boxes of paper on my desk.

Nope, that was me. Heh heh.

Chowderhead wrote:So, being told to tip your waiter is tyranny?

Being told to tip your waiter or go to jail is tyranny.

Chowderhead wrote:Following the Dakka rules is tyranny?

No, because you're voluntarily posting on Dakka. You don't have to follow the rules. But there are consequences to not following the rules. Well, for some people.

Chowderhead wrote:Laws are tyranny? Government is tyranny?

Yes. Everything the government does restricts individual freedom. Sometimes the benefits outweigh the penalties.

Chowderhead wrote:Excellent thought, Biccat! If someone tries to tell me what to do, I'll tell them to piss off, and kill them and their families! Damn the law, it's tyrannical to make me do something I don't want to!

It is.

But the government has more guns and armed men than you. You violate the strictures of the government at your own risk. Because a law is only as good as the will and ability to enforce it, and the government has both.

Vulcan wrote:Ah, yes, the freedom of a young girl to get pregnant and have to raise a child years before she's emotionally ready (much less socially or financially ready) because no one bothered to give her the facts she needed to avoid it...

Why do you think no one would tell her how to avoid getting pregnant? Is the only way to learn about condom use by being forced to sit in a chair and have someone lecture you on different methods of birth control?

Frazzled wrote:That explains the sudden appearance of boxes of paper on my desk.

Yeah, my bad.

Here's the real button. It's kinda bluish, but it still nukes the crap out of those Limey Bastards.

I resent that!

Bring me the SMALLER WESTERN EUROPE BUTTON!

Buttons for all!

YAY!

Anyway...

Surely if this law is passed then every member of Congress in Tennessee is getting at least an honourable mention in the Darwin Awards?

"Her der, educating people on the very cycle that ensures the continued existence of humanity is WRONG!"

biccat wrote:

PhantomViper wrote:I really don't know how to respond to something like this. Equalling sex ed classes to tyranny is mind boggling.

No. Requiring sex ed classes is tyranny.

PhantomViper wrote:So what about History? Philosophy? Literature? Art? Should those be taught to kids or do you consider them tyranny as well?

Should? Yes. But if you require the kids to attend classes on History, Philosophy, Literature or Art, then it is tyranny.

It's a good thing kids aren't forced to go to public schools then. You can always opt to home school or send your kids to private schools, after all.

Even in public schools, I thought there was always the option to opt-out of sex ed classes? Mine had it, at least.

Incidentally, is banning a subject equal to tyranny?

streamdragon wrote:It's a good thing kids aren't forced to go to public schools then. You can always opt to home school or send your kids to private schools, after all.

You still have to send your kids to school.

streamdragon wrote:Incidentally, is banning a subject equal to tyranny?

If it's actually banned, like teaching your children to speak German, but not if public schools are prohibited from teaching it. Public schools are an extension of the government and can be regulated by the government. Schools are not autonomous.

On the subject of Tyranny:

Surely you're only being Tyrannic if you force them to do it?

A Curriculum is a basic set up for how teachers educate children. They don't have to listen, or do any of the actual set work; they can be encouraged to do it, but the only person who suffers is them. A teacher may use discipline as a motive to get the child to work, but at my school it's only used for poor behaviour.

And discipline is important. If you destroy somebody's life or kill them, should you get away with it? No. Discipline is a deterrent to stop people bringing about hardship for others.

By biccat's logic, the Health and Safety charter is Tyrannical. Making you wear a hard hat and visible clothing on a clothing site is there to protect you.

biccat wrote:
Should? Yes. But if you require the kids to attend classes on History, Philosophy, Literature or Art, then it is tyranny.

Oh no, what a despotic abuse of power, forcing those poor children to be exposed to information.

You what information is? Just knowledge by another name, and that's what got us kicked out of Eden!

biccat wrote:
You still have to send your kids to school.

No you don't. If you're home schooling your children you aren't sending them anywhere, you're in fact teaching (you know, schooling) them at home.

biccat wrote:

PhantomViper wrote:Cool, I never realised I lived in a tyrannical state until now, because all those classes are mandatory in my country as well!

Palindrome wrote:Biccat you are a really interesting specimen. Attempting to claim that sexual education equates to tyranny has to be one of the most foolish things that I have ever read on the internet (and as you can imagine thats quite an accolade).

Any time someone makes you do something it's tyranny and limits your freedom.

Some people like being told what to do. Personally, I have a problem with it.

You might not value your freedom, I value mine. Whats more, I value yours as well.

So you wan't your kids to be dumb and uneducated and whoever tries to change that is messing with your personal freedoms, right, got it.

Usually people wan't their kids to get more education, not less, you Americans sure are a strange group of people...

biccat wrote:
Any time someone makes you do something it's tyranny and limits your freedom.

No, it isn't. It certainly limits your freedom, but simply limiting the freedom of someone else is not tyranny. If it were, instituting any sort of consequence to any potential action renders you a tyrant, as would exercising any of your own freedom in such a way that restricts my behavior (which is to say exercising your freedom in any way at all), right down to simply occupying a particular space on the sidewalk that I also wish to occupy.

I mean, I guess we might all be tyrants, but if that's the case the term is simply meaningless. Of course, you have a history of proffering ridiculous definitions for terminology of this sort, so I'm hardly surprised at this particular instance.

biccat wrote:

Vulcan wrote:Ah, yes, the freedom of a young girl to get pregnant and have to raise a child years before she's emotionally ready (much less socially or financially ready) because no one bothered to give her the facts she needed to avoid it...

Why do you think no one would tell her how to avoid getting pregnant? Is the only way to learn about condom use by being forced to sit in a chair and have someone lecture you on different methods of birth control?

Given the number of teen pregnanices in this country, your proposal might well be correct!

Let's face it, the major sources of kids finding out about sex are a) the media; b) porn; and c) each other. The first two are not particularly interested in teaching kids about how to be safe or what the risks are. The third option is usually woefully ignorant of the topic.

Parents come in a distant fourth. Most won't have any talk with their kids, or wait until it is way too late. (Mine had 'the talk' with me at 16. I had already learned more from couseling my little sister after she had a bad breakup with her first intimate boyfriend. Thank God she took the initiative to educate herself!) All too often, the parents themselves are woefully ignorant on the subject. (I was the result of just such a mishap; although she had waited 'til college neither she nor my father were any more informed than the typical modern 13-year-old because that was the standard of the times. And they are not stupid; both were on good scholarships and placed VERY high in their classes. They just had never been educated.)

As has been mentioned, the fifth option is self-education - looking things up in a medical encyclopedia (my sister's route, no internet at the time) or on the internet. This requires effort, and probably a fair amount of sneaking around, and the very real possibility of getting in BIG trouble with the type parents who are afraid to teach the kids themselves.

In short... if not the schools, then who? If the schools don't, then we admit that sex education is best left to the incomplete coverage given by the other sources, or depending on kids to educate themselves. Given the ongoing failures of those FIVE other options... why NOT the schools?

PhantomViper wrote:So you wan't your kids to be dumb and uneducated and whoever tries to change that is messing with your personal freedoms, right, got it.

Nope. I want my kids to be smart and educated. You misstating my argument doesn't change that.

BlapBlapBlap wrote:By biccat's logic, the Health and Safety charter is Tyrannical.

Yup. Now you're getting it.

Note that if I were on a work site, I would want to wear a hardhat whether the laws require it or not.

Vulcan wrote:Given the number of teen pregnanices in this country, your proposal might well be correct!

Does the increased prevalance of sex-ed in classrooms over the past few decades change your opinion?

Vulcan wrote:neither she nor my father were any more informed than the typical modern 13-year-old because that was the standard of the times. And they are not stupid; both were on good scholarships and placed VERY high in their classes. They just had never been educated.

Are you saying your parents didn't know that sex=babies when they had sex? That doesn't sound particularly educated to me. Maybe we've got different standards of "educated."

My parents answered the "where do babies come from" question well before I reached puberty.

Vulcan wrote:In short... if not the schools, then who?

Mom & dad.

I think it has become time to simply stop responding to biccat, he may go away then.

Biccat, You do realize you have the freedom to opt outta school and homeschool the deamon seed?

hotsauceman1 wrote:Biccat, You do realize you have the freedom to opt outta school and homeschool the deamon seed?

I'd bet that depends on the state.

biccat wrote:Note that if I were on a work site, I would want to wear a hardhat whether the laws require it or not.

And why is that? Has someone in the distant past told you (or maybe you have overheard it/read it somewhere) that there is a danger of falling objects on a building site, so head protection is a good idea?

THOSE FETHERS! How dare they give you information for your protection!

Most let ya.

hotsauceman1 wrote:Biccat, You do realize you have the freedom to opt outta school and homeschool the deamon seed?

Why would I want to homeschool?

I'm forced to pay for stuff like education and other programs, so I'm going to take advantage of them to the fullest extent I can. If Obama's health care bill is upheld, I'll drop my health insurance and take advantage of the "free" health insurance that I'm paying for anyway.

Sure, I'll vote for someone who offers to stop these programs, but until then, I'm going to take advantage as much as I can.

I'm principled, not stupid.

SilverMK2 wrote:And why is that? Has someone in the distant past told you (or maybe you have overheard it/read it somewhere) that there is a danger of falling objects on a building site, so head protection is a good idea?

Yes. A guy I worked for. He wasn't required by law to tell me that. Neither one of us would get fined or go to jail if I didn't wear head gear. But he made it clear that the large pieces of steel we worked with could cause serious harm to one's noggin.

biccat wrote:

hotsauceman1 wrote:Biccat, You do realize you have the freedom to opt outta school and homeschool the deamon seed?

Why would I want to homeschool?

I'm forced to pay for stuff like education and other programs, so I'm going to take advantage of them to the fullest extent I can. If Obama's health care bill is upheld, I'll drop my health insurance and take advantage of the "free" health insurance that I'm paying for anyway.

Sure, I'll vote for someone who offers to stop these programs, but until then, I'm going to take advantage as much as I can.

I'm principled, not stupid.

SilverMK2 wrote:And why is that? Has someone in the distant past told you (or maybe you have overheard it/read it somewhere) that there is a danger of falling objects on a building site, so head protection is a good idea?

Yes. A guy I worked for. He wasn't required by law to tell me that. Neither one of us would get fined or go to jail if I didn't wear head gear. But he made it clear that the large pieces of steel we worked with could cause serious harm to one's noggin.

Well, you could simply leave that sump of oppression and tyranny! I hear that there are a few countries in Africa where everyone is free to do as they please, I'm sure the citizens of those countries are allot better of for it!

Can I interest you in a plane ticket to Somalia? I'm pretty sure they don't force your kids to go to school there...

My nickname in college was "Gateway to Sexual Activity". People would go right past me to get to sex.

biccat wrote:

SilverMK2 wrote:And why is that? Has someone in the distant past told you (or maybe you have overheard it/read it somewhere) that there is a danger of falling objects on a building site, so head protection is a good idea?

Yes. A guy I worked for. He wasn't required by law to tell me that. Neither one of us would get fined or go to jail if I didn't wear head gear. But he made it clear that the large pieces of steel we worked with could cause serious harm to one's noggin.

no he was required by law and faced punishments if he didn't

Under the Occupational Health and Safety Act, 1983:

Employers have a "Duty of Care" to ensure the health, safety and welfare at work of employees and others.
Employers must take all practicable measures to control risks against injuries in the workplace.
Employees have an obligation to co-operate with their employers on health and safety matters.
Failing to comply with the "Duty of Care" provisions of the Act is an offence.

#7 – Head Protection

Number of Inspections: 1461
Number of Citations: 1464
Total Amount Fined: $747,099
Average Fine: $511.00
Head protection is very important on any jobsite; you must wear a hard hat. All sorts of things fly around a jobsite, from heights, trucks, to just walking into something. If your people are not wearing their hard hats, you risk being cited and fined.
customeHR Top 10 OSHA Fines for Small Companies
Read more: http://www.safetyservicescompany.com/blog/top-10-osha-fines-for-small-companies#ixzz1v3fCRP2J

PhantomViper wrote:Well, you could simply leave that sump of oppression and tyranny! I hear that there are a few countries in Africa where everyone is free to do as they please, I'm sure the citizens of those countries are allot better of for it!

Actually, most of the problems in those countries are due to decades of despotic government.

But I'm sure you knew that.

Well then biccat, if you dont take advantage of your freedom, be quiet.