Psychic Shriek and CCB

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**FlingitNow**

col_impact wrote:
FlingitNow wrote:

Where do I find RaW definition of fizzles? Please answer the question does the game stop or continue?

It has no effect.

You do know you've just agreed with my interpretation right? You've just stated that unresolvable action = no effect. Which is what we've been saying all along.

Glad you're finally on board. Your concession is accepted.

Yup, feel free to cast psychic shriek and have it do absolutely nothing.

But the game continues right? So you have to take the 3d6-ld wounds. Or does the game stop?

**col_impact**

FlingitNow wrote:
col_impact wrote:
FlingitNow wrote:

Where do I find RaW definition of fizzles? Please answer the question does the game stop or continue?

It has no effect.

You do know you've just agreed with my interpretation right? You've just stated that unresolvable action = no effect. Which is what we've been saying all along.

Glad you're finally on board. Your concession is accepted.

Yup, feel free to cast psychic shriek and have it do absolutely nothing.

But the game continues right? So you have to take the 3d6-ld wounds. Or does the game stop?

Psychic shriek does nothing. No wounds are taken. The game continues.

**nosferatu1001**

Except the psychic power rules tells us to resolve, and the resolution requires rolling the dice. In all you irrelevant eir ambling you still cannot draw a link between rolling to hit and the resolution of the power. Raw you remain completely in error.

**col_impact**

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Except the psychic power rules tells us to resolve, and the resolution requires rolling the dice. In all you irrelevant eir ambling you still cannot draw a link between rolling to hit and the resolution of the power. Raw you remain completely in error.

Your approach - Come up with a fiction of a zero shot shooting attack to allow you to bypass the requirements of witchfire. Do absurd things like roll 0 dice.

My approach - Resolve as a witchfire shooting attack. Roll to hit against your BS. If successful resolve the effect of Psychic Shriek.

BAO, NOVA, ETC all share my approach.

You might be a rules lawyer if . . . .

you invent things like "zero shot shooting attack" to bend rules in your favor.

**Whacked**

Side Note:I still don't get why people try to compare enfeeble to psychic shriek in this thread. It works on vehicles. You can reduce their 0 toughness to -1, but that does nothing to a vehicle, however a walker will still lose -1 strength. I don't see how relevant this is to the discussion.

**col_impact**

Whacked wrote:
Side Note:I still don't get why people try to compare enfeeble to psychic shriek in this thread. It works on vehicles. You can reduce their 0 toughness to -1, but that does nothing to a vehicle, however a walker will still lose -1 strength. I don't see how relevant this is to the discussion.

Where do you see a Toughness characteristic on a vehicle?

**nosferatu1001**

Col_impact - nope, not my approach. My approach is to point out your lack of rules denying the resolution of non-to-wound effects on a missed to-hit, and pointing out that you still continue to make up concepts that flat out don't exist - like needing a to-wound before you can get wounds.

I don't give a fig what house rules Bao et sl may choose to use. The actual rules are something very different.

**col_impact**

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Col_impact - nope, not my approach. My approach is to point out your lack of rules denying the resolution of non-to-wound effects on a missed to-hit, and pointing out that you still continue to make up concepts that flat out don't exist - like needing a to-wound before you can get wounds.

I don't give a fig what house rules Bao et sl may choose to use. The actual rules are something very different.

Spoiler:

Either you can't resolve the above and psychic shriek does no wounds or you add "Instead of rolling to wound, roll 3D6 and subtract the
target’s Leadership – the target unit suffers a number of Wounds equal to the result.
Armour and cover saves cannot be taken against Wounds caused by Psychic Shriek."

The abyssal staff follows this kind of template.

**blaktoof**

Citing that you can resolve a psychic power without rolling to hit is the same as saying you don't need to roll to hit for any witchfire. They require a to hit roll being witchfire powers, you cannot ommit that required RAW for some and not others based on your personal whim as there is definately no wording anywhere that states psychic shriek may do so.

which is wrong.

there is no rule which allows you to resolve psychic shriek without rolling to hit.

There is no RAW for permission to use any attack during any phase that requires a to hit roll, ignore the roll, and still resolve the effect.

not rolling and missing and trying to resolve the effect are the same as ignoring the roll.

at this point this thread has been going pages now discussing not the topic.

**rigeld2**

blaktoof wrote:
Citing that you can resolve a psychic power without rolling to hit is the same as saying you don't need to roll to hit for any witchfire.

No, it's not. Stop with this fiction. It's been proven wrong multiple times already.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Gravmyr wrote:
If it's not multiple it's singular.

BRB pg 40 wrote:Some shooting weapons fire multiple shots. Where this is the case, the number of shots a weapon fires is noted after its type.

BRB pg 32 wrote:Most models only get to fire one shot, however, some weapons are capable of firing more than once, as we will explain in more detail later.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Does psychic shriek state to fires more than one shot?

What is Psychic Shrieks type? You must be able to cite it to be able to prove your point. Remember - those rules deal with profiles something PS is decidedly lacking.

**col_impact**

rigeld2 wrote:
blaktoof wrote:
Citing that you can resolve a psychic power without rolling to hit is the same as saying you don't need to roll to hit for any witchfire.

No, it's not. Stop with this fiction. It's been proven wrong multiple times already.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Gravmyr wrote:
If it's not multiple it's singular.

BRB pg 40 wrote:Some shooting weapons fire multiple shots. Where this is the case, the number of shots a weapon fires is noted after its type.

BRB pg 32 wrote:Most models only get to fire one shot, however, some weapons are capable of firing more than once, as we will explain in more detail later.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Does psychic shriek state to fires more than one shot?

What is Psychic Shrieks type? You must be able to cite it to be able to prove your point. Remember - those rules deal with profiles something PS is decidedly lacking.

Lol, are you still trying to maintain that zero shot shooting attacks exist? I thought we put that fiction to rest.

**FlingitNow**

Psychic shriek does nothing. No wounds are taken. The game continues.

Sorry but that is simply not an option. The rules require we resolve the power. If you are stating that unresolvable action means nothing happens and we continue with the game then the next thing we must do is the 3d6-ld wounds. Either the game continues or it freezes at the unresolvable action. If it continues it continues immediately with the next resolvable action unrelated to the unresolvable one. You have no more permission to skip the 3d6-ld wounds than you have the rest of that player turn or the rest of the player turns. You have conceded by claiming this twice now.

Citing that you can resolve a psychic power without rolling to hit is the same as saying you don't need to roll to hit for any witchfire. They require a to hit roll being witchfire powers, you cannot ommit that required RAW for some and not others based on your personal whim as there is definately no wording anywhere that states psychic shriek may do so.

This has been explained to you before so why bring it up? Yes you can not roll to hit with say Smite but that means you don't get to make to wound rolls for Smite either as to wound rolls are dependent on successful to hit rolls. Smite gives us no other instructions to have any other effect so not rolling to hit for it prevents it having any effect. Note how NOTHING in PS is dependent on successful to hit rolls.

there is no rule which allows you to resolve psychic shriek without rolling to hit.

There is no RAW for permission to use any attack during any phase that requires a to hit roll, ignore the roll, and still resolve the effect.

not rolling and missing and trying to resolve the effect are the same as ignoring the roll.

First sentence is correct. Psychic Shriek and Focussed Witchfires disagree with the 2nd sentence. Though now largely irrelevant Njal used to have a shooting attack that effected a unit whether you hit or missed it had a profile so you only got to roll to wound if you hit but the secondary effect applied whether you hit or not (from memory it forced a unit to move as if in DT), this was in the old FAQ so it is not like nothing has ever worked this way before.

The final sentence has no basis in the rules at all. It is simply you putting your assumptions in so that you can make the power work the way you want it to.

at this point this thread has been going pages now discussing not the topic.

Once again you know you've lost so you post a bunch of stuff you know to be untrue and ask for the thread to be closed in an attempt to avoid perceived humiliation. Don't worry now one thinks less of you for getting this rule wrong and admitting that will actually make us think more of you.

I mean Col_impact has conceded, this post feels like you're there just concede the RaW has been explained surely you must understand it by now or why post stuff that has already been debunked repeatedly?

**wurrkop**

Don't post things like this on Dakka.

Reds8n

**nosferatu1001**

col_impact wrote:
nosferatu1001 wrote:
Col_impact - nope, not my approach. My approach is to point out your lack of rules denying the resolution of non-to-wound effects on a missed to-hit, and pointing out that you still continue to make up concepts that flat out don't exist - like needing a to-wound before you can get wounds.

I don't give a fig what house rules Bao et sl may choose to use. The actual rules are something very different.

Spoiler:

4. Roll To Hit. Roll a D6 for each shot fired. A model’s Ballistic Skill determines
what it must roll in order to hit the target.

5. Roll To Wound. For each shot that hit, roll again to see if it wounds the target.
The result needed is determined by comparing the Strength of the firing
weapon with the majority Toughness of the target unit.

Either you can't resolve the above and psychic shriek does no wounds or you add "Instead of rolling to wound, roll 3D6 and subtract the
target’s Leadership – the target unit suffers a number of Wounds equal to the result.
Armour and cover saves cannot be taken against Wounds caused by Psychic Shriek."

The abyssal staff follows this kind of template.

How many shots were fired? None. I have rolled a d6 for each shot fired - check
How many hit? None. I have complied with step 5

You resolve the power, which gives a method for inflicting wounds. Maybe you can read them this time, instead of posting rules that gave no bearing..

Rolling to-wound is NOT the only way to cause wounds. This has been proven. Your inability to counter this is telling.

**blaktoof**

FlingitNow wrote:
Psychic shriek does nothing. No wounds are taken. The game continues.

Sorry but that is simply not an option. The rules require we resolve the power. If you are stating that unresolvable action means nothing happens and we continue with the game then the next thing we must do is the 3d6-ld wounds. Either the game continues or it freezes at the unresolvable action. If it continues it continues immediately with the next resolvable action unrelated to the unresolvable one. You have no more permission to skip the 3d6-ld wounds than you have the rest of that player turn or the rest of the player turns. You have conceded by claiming this twice now.

Citing that you can resolve a psychic power without rolling to hit is the same as saying you don't need to roll to hit for any witchfire. They require a to hit roll being witchfire powers, you cannot ommit that required RAW for some and not others based on your personal whim as there is definately no wording anywhere that states psychic shriek may do so.

This has been explained to you before so why bring it up? Yes you can not roll to hit with say Smite but that means you don't get to make to wound rolls for Smite either as to wound rolls are dependent on successful to hit rolls. Smite gives us no other instructions to have any other effect so not rolling to hit for it prevents it having any effect. Note how NOTHING in PS is dependent on successful to hit rolls.

there is no rule which allows you to resolve psychic shriek without rolling to hit.

There is no RAW for permission to use any attack during any phase that requires a to hit roll, ignore the roll, and still resolve the effect.

not rolling and missing and trying to resolve the effect are the same as ignoring the roll.

First sentence is correct. Psychic Shriek and Focussed Witchfires disagree with the 2nd sentence. Though now largely irrelevant Njal used to have a shooting attack that effected a unit whether you hit or missed it had a profile so you only got to roll to wound if you hit but the secondary effect applied whether you hit or not (from memory it forced a unit to move as if in DT), this was in the old FAQ so it is not like nothing has ever worked this way before.

The final sentence has no basis in the rules at all. It is simply you putting your assumptions in so that you can make the power work the way you want it to.

at this point this thread has been going pages now discussing not the topic.

Once again you know you've lost so you post a bunch of stuff you know to be untrue and ask for the thread to be closed in an attempt to avoid perceived humiliation. Don't worry now one thinks less of you for getting this rule wrong and admitting that will actually make us think more of you.

I mean Col_impact has conceded, this post feels like you're there just concede the RaW has been explained surely you must understand it by now or why post stuff that has already been debunked repeatedly?

psychic shriek does not state it gets to ignore the required to hit roll, and the lack of a standard shooting profile is not permission to ignore something that is required.

**col_impact**

nosferatu1001 wrote:
col_impact wrote:
nosferatu1001 wrote:
Col_impact - nope, not my approach. My approach is to point out your lack of rules denying the resolution of non-to-wound effects on a missed to-hit, and pointing out that you still continue to make up concepts that flat out don't exist - like needing a to-wound before you can get wounds.

I don't give a fig what house rules Bao et sl may choose to use. The actual rules are something very different.

Spoiler:

4. Roll To Hit. Roll a D6 for each shot fired. A model’s Ballistic Skill determines
what it must roll in order to hit the target.

5. Roll To Wound. For each shot that hit, roll again to see if it wounds the target.
The result needed is determined by comparing the Strength of the firing
weapon with the majority Toughness of the target unit.

Either you can't resolve the above and psychic shriek does no wounds or you add "Instead of rolling to wound, roll 3D6 and subtract the
target’s Leadership – the target unit suffers a number of Wounds equal to the result.
Armour and cover saves cannot be taken against Wounds caused by Psychic Shriek."

The abyssal staff follows this kind of template.

How many shots were fired? None. I have rolled a d6 for each shot fired - check
How many hit? None. I have complied with step 5

You resolve the power, which gives a method for inflicting wounds. Maybe you can read them this time, instead of posting rules that gave no bearing..

Rolling to-wound is NOT the only way to cause wounds. This has been proven. Your inability to counter this is telling.

This sounds like you are relying on Psychic Shriek being a zero shot shooting attack, which we proved was a fiction that you all made up. There is no such thing as a zero shot shooting attack. If you disagree on that, prove me wrong.

Witchfire requires you to roll a hit. If it succeeds you are required to roll a To Wound Roll. You need to succeed at the To Wound Roll if the hit is going to cause wounds. This is where the lack of a weapon profile prevents you from doing the requisite steps. You are missing the S of the weapon to complete the To Wound Roll. If you can't do the requisite steps then psychic shriek does absolutely nothing. You need to infer a weapon profile for Psychic Shriek to resolve witchfire. See the profile I inferred for the minimum profile that will allow you to resolve witchfire. If someone can infer a better minimum profile feel free to contribute to the thread.

@flingitnow: see my answer above as it also answers your concerns. You can't skip requisite steps and have a psychic power resolve. If a power cannot be resolved it freezes as unresolvable and does absolutely nothing. Either that or the game freezes at that point and cannot be resolved. This is fine too. That just leads to future games where Psychic Shriek is banned at the outset as broken.

**FlingitNow**

psychic shriek does not state it gets to ignore the required to hit roll, and the lack of a standard shooting profile is not permission to ignore something that is required.

What is your point? Argue against the points raised or concede.

see my answer above as it also answers your concerns. You can't skip requisite steps and have a psychic power resolve. If a power cannot be resolved it freezes as unresolvable and does absolutely nothing.

Then the game freezes. You can't jump back into the game at a random point either at the next unresolvable point ornot at all. Which is it?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Witchfire requires you to roll a hit. If it succeeds you are required to roll a To Wound Roll. You need to succeed at the To Wound Roll if the hit is going to cause wounds.

This is of course correct. No one is saying any different. Psychic Shriek still does 3d6-ld wounds as this effect is not tied to the to hit or to wounds rolls.

**col_impact**

FlingitNow wrote:

Then the game freezes. You can't jump back into the game at a random point either at the next unresolvable point ornot at all. Which is it?

Fine then the game freezes. This is an acceptable answer.

But for a less nihilistic answer.

You are flat out wrong FlingItNow. You don't get to resolve powers without performing all requisite steps. If you have no Warp Charges you don't get to skip all of that and jump to the text of Psychic Shriek and have it resolve. The power becomes frozen as unresolvable and does absolutely nothing. You are not permitted to skip steps and jump ahead. You can either leave that power behind and continue with the game or argue with your opponent that the game has been frozen.

This is a Recap of your argument FlingItNow

Spoiler:

This is a ridiculous line of argumentation. You are basically admitting Psychic Shriek is broken beyond repair and then leveraging that brokenness to allow you to skip required steps and have it work magically.

**nosferatu1001**

Wrong, wrong,wrong.

I have permission to cause wounds through the 3d6. Only if I want to cause wounds from a to wound roll do I need a to hit first

We have shown there is no link, no rules requirement, NOTHING, Supporting your concept that a to wound is required before you can cause wounds This completely made up idea of yours, totally unsupported, must be known to you by this point, as you are unwilling to debate it.

raw the roll to hit is required, but raw even if you know how many dice to roll, it is NOT required for you to be bow to cause wounds

This is proven. You have no rebuttal to this. Mark your posts "HYWPI" as per the tenets of this forum.

**col_impact**

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Wrong, wrong,wrong.

I have permission to cause wounds through the 3d6. Only if I want to cause wounds from a to wound roll do I need a to hit first

We have shown there is no link, no rules requirement, NOTHING, Supporting your concept that a to wound is required before you can cause wounds This completely made up idea of yours, totally unsupported, must be known to you by this point, as you are unwilling to debate it.

raw the roll to hit is required, but raw even if you know how many dice to roll, it is NOT required for you to be bow to cause wounds

This is proven. You have no rebuttal to this. Mark your posts "HYWPI" as per the tenets of this forum.

Wrong Wrong Wrong.

Psychic Shriek is a shooting attack that is comprised of a shot fired at a target unit controlled by the opponent.

Spoiler:

Per the rules, if the shot hits and does not succeed at rolling to wound, that shot does not wound the target.

Please indicate how you resolve the To Wound Roll without a profile.

You are not allowed to skip steps 4 and 5. Please show explicitly how you satisfy them.

Psychic Shriek has no effect if you can't satisfy all requisite steps.

**JinxDragon**

If you wish to treat it as a Special Rule why does it not contain the wording:
If one or more Hits....

That is what tells us that the Special Rule triggers only on successful To Hit Rolls, and it also has the added restriction of allowing multiple weapons with to only ever trigger the Special Rule once. Lacking this clause, or any other instruction to even suggest the rest of the 'Special Rule' is somehow dependant on the Shot being successful, this Rule would trigger in any situation where it has been Evoked. As the powers only set of instructions, it really should have a profile and the one or more wording, there is nothing within that can tie it's Resolution to any Step in the Shooting Sequence. It will be resolved automatically regardless of outcome....

Something I keep pondering over the shooting sequence:
Step 3 allows me to select a Weapon Group and then select Models I wish not to fire. This is where I expected to find the most support for the concept of 'there must be at least 1 shot' but the choice of words within actually support the opposite. Instead of telling us to select which models we wish to fire, which can be debated to select at least one model has to be selected which would then boil down into a Rule as Intended debate as to what the Authors might of wanted us to do at that step, it tells me to chose the ones I wish not to fire. This makes it just as easy to select all of them as there is selecting none, and this allows us to enter into Step 4 while still having 0 Shots generated at a previous stage.

If I have not picked up any dice during Step 4 how many have I rolled?
Is that number of dice equal to the number of shots that where fired, as required by the Rules?

Steps 5 has to do with Successful results in a previous step
or are you saying we have broken the Rules of the Game, which is instant forfeit in my books, any time we have 0 successful To Hits or To Wounds?

Step 7 has some very unusual conflicting Rules:
Repeat this process until you have selected and resolved attacks from all the weapons in the firing unit

If it wasn't for the ability to select 0 Models to fire, the above would make it so we had to resolve at least one shot from every weapon in the Unit. Now to be fair it does go on to give us a choice not to fire weapons, but yet again this is a choice to select no as an option, instead of a requirement to have at-least one Yes. Sure, it would be a complete waste of time to nominate a unit to fire, choose a legal target and then state you are firing 0 Models but I have yet to see anything more then 'A Shooting Attack must have one Shot at least, that is common sense!' to depute the order of operations set out by the Shooting Sequence itself.

It is not just possible to have a 0 Result somewhere in the sequence, it is likely to occur and the system is designed to still allow a successful Resolution in these situations....

**nosferatu1001**

Col - so again, you are claiming that wounds can only be caused by to wound rolls? How strange, makes perils somewhat less scary.

Step five and four were satisfied. Why are you not satisfying the rules requiring the power to be resolved?

I guess as you are making up one rule that ignoring another is expected.

**col_impact**

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Col - so again, you are claiming that wounds can only be caused by to wound rolls? How strange, makes perils somewhat less scary.

Step five and four were satisfied. Why are you not satisfying the rules requiring the power to be resolved?

I guess as you are making up one rule that ignoring another is expected.

Go into detail how steps 4 and 5 were satisfied.

**gwarsh41**

Man, some of the suggestions in here are down right stupid as hell. Apparently 40k can freeze like it is some sort of program huh?

I target the CCB with this spell. It hits, I choose to take the hits on the chariot, it has no leadership, nothing happens, game goes on. You can't lock up a freaking tabletop game, worst case you roll a d6, shake hands like normal people and keep playing.

If the game could lock up, people would assault terrain, and do all other sorts of stupid stuff that are not in the rulebook and lock up tournaments. They don't, it doesn't, this thread has fallen victim to some very powerful trolling.

**col_impact**

JinxDragon wrote:
If you wish to treat it as a Special Rule why does it not contain the wording:
If one or more Hits....

That is what tells us that the Special Rule triggers only on successful To Hit Rolls, and it also has the added restriction of allowing multiple weapons with to only ever trigger the Special Rule once. Lacking this clause, or any other instruction to even suggest the rest of the 'Special Rule' is somehow dependant on the Shot being successful, this Rule would trigger in any situation where it has been Evoked. As the powers only set of instructions, it really should have a profile and the one or more wording, there is nothing within that can tie it's Resolution to any Step in the Shooting Sequence. It will be resolved automatically regardless of outcome....

Something I keep pondering over the shooting sequence:
Step 3 allows me to select a Weapon Group and then select Models I wish not to fire. This is where I expected to find the most support for the concept of 'there must be at least 1 shot' but the choice of words within actually support the opposite. Instead of telling us to select which models we wish to fire, which can be debated to select at least one model has to be selected which would then boil down into a Rule as Intended debate as to what the Authors might of wanted us to do at that step, it tells me to chose the ones I wish not to fire. This makes it just as easy to select all of them as there is selecting none, and this allows us to enter into Step 4 while still having 0 Shots generated at a previous stage.

If I have not picked up any dice during Step 4 how many have I rolled?
Is that number of dice equal to the number of shots that where fired, as required by the Rules?

Steps 5 has to do with Successful results in a previous step
or are you saying we have broken the Rules of the Game, which is instant forfeit in my books, any time we have 0 successful To Hits or To Wounds?

Step 7 has some very unusual conflicting Rules:
Repeat this process until you have selected and resolved attacks from all the weapons in the firing unit

If it wasn't for the ability to select 0 Models to fire, the above would make it so we had to resolve at least one shot from every weapon in the Unit. Now to be fair it does go on to give us a choice not to fire weapons, but yet again this is a choice to select no as an option, instead of a requirement to have at-least one Yes. Sure, it would be a complete waste of time to nominate a unit to fire, choose a legal target and then state you are firing 0 Models but I have yet to see anything more then 'A Shooting Attack must have one Shot at least, that is common sense!' to depute the order of operations set out by the Shooting Sequence itself.

It is not just possible to have a 0 Result somewhere in the sequence, it is likely to occur and the system is designed to still allow a successful Resolution in these situations....

Witchfire powers must roll to hit.

If you do not fire a shot you cannot roll to hit.

Rolling zero die does not satisfy rolling to hit. This is another fiction created by you all to make Psychic Shriek bend the rule.

Zero shot shooting attacks do not exist. This was already shown to be a fiction created by you all to make Psychic Shriek bend the rule.

All of this line of reasoning begs the question, why are you bending over backwards to skip steps that are absolutely required of witchfire?

If you are having to create concepts like rolling zero dice and zero shot shooting attacks then something is fundamentally wrong and you are not doing things according to RAW when you are inventing concepts that don't exist. If psychic shriek is simply broken as is, then just admit it.

**FlingitNow**

col_impact wrote:
nosferatu1001 wrote:
Col - so again, you are claiming that wounds can only be caused by to wound rolls? How strange, makes perils somewhat less scary.

Step five and four were satisfied. Why are you not satisfying the rules requiring the power to be resolved?

I guess as you are making up one rule that ignoring another is expected.

Go into detail how steps 4 and 5 were satisfied.

How many rolls to hit does PS allow us to make? How many have we made? How many hits would rolling no dove generate? How mamy to wound rolls did we make?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

gwarsh41 wrote:
Man, some of the suggestions in here are down right stupid as hell. Apparently 40k can freeze like it is some sort of program huh?

I target the CCB with this spell. It hits, I choose to take the hits on the chariot, it has no leadership, nothing happens, game goes on. You can't lock up a freaking tabletop game, worst case you roll a d6, shake hands like normal people and keep playing.

If the game could lock up, people would assault terrain, and do all other sorts of stupid stuff that are not in the rulebook and lock up tournaments. They don't, it doesn't, this thread has fallen victim to some very powerful trolling.

What if it doesn't hit? Why aren't you resolving the 3d6-ld wounds against the unit as instructed (not the model and the profile as you're trying to do)?

**col_impact**

FlingitNow wrote:
col_impact wrote:
nosferatu1001 wrote:
Col - so again, you are claiming that wounds can only be caused by to wound rolls? How strange, makes perils somewhat less scary.

Step five and four were satisfied. Why are you not satisfying the rules requiring the power to be resolved?

I guess as you are making up one rule that ignoring another is expected.

Go into detail how steps 4 and 5 were satisfied.

How many rolls to hit does PS allow us to make? How many have we made? How many hits would rolling no dove generate? How mamy to wound rolls did we make?

You are the one required to answer these questions and resolve steps 4 and 5 if Psychic Shriek is going to have any effect on the game.

To repeat, go into detail how steps 4 and 5 were satisfied.

**FlingitNow**

Witchfire powers must roll to hit.

If you do not fire a shot you cannot roll to hit.

Rolling zero die does not satisfy rolling to hit. This is another fiction created by you all to make Psychic Shriek bend the rule.

Zero shot shooting attacks do not exist. This was already shown to be a fiction created by you all to make Psychic Shriek bend the rule.

All of this line of reasoning begs the question, why are you bending over backwards to skip steps that are absolutely required of witchfire?

If you are having to create concepts like rolling zero dice and zero shot shooting attacks then something is fundamentally wrong and you are not doing things according to RAW when you are inventing concepts that don't exist. If psychic shriek is simply broken as is, then just admit it.

Zero shots is not an invented concept. The rules tell us that shots can be any number depending on the relevant rules zero is a number.

I don't get your insistence that all a player has to do is cast Enfeeble on a vehicle to have the game end as this is not what you've claimed. Notice how you have to keep changing your interpretation and are trying the "because my interpretation isn't RaW therefore there is no RaW" approach. Our approach is simply to follow the RaW. If you don't like the RaW that is fine and if you and your friends want to play your own made up rules then that's fine too. Do whatever you want to enjoy your hobby. But trying to confuse people who want to know the actual rules is not helpful.

**col_impact**

FlingitNow wrote:
Witchfire powers must roll to hit.

If you do not fire a shot you cannot roll to hit.

Rolling zero die does not satisfy rolling to hit. This is another fiction created by you all to make Psychic Shriek bend the rule.

Zero shot shooting attacks do not exist. This was already shown to be a fiction created by you all to make Psychic Shriek bend the rule.

All of this line of reasoning begs the question, why are you bending over backwards to skip steps that are absolutely required of witchfire?

If you are having to create concepts like rolling zero dice and zero shot shooting attacks then something is fundamentally wrong and you are not doing things according to RAW when you are inventing concepts that don't exist. If psychic shriek is simply broken as is, then just admit it.

Zero shots is not an invented concept. The rules tell us that shots can be any number depending on the relevant rules zero is a number.

I don't get your insistence that all a player has to do is cast Enfeeble on a vehicle to have the game end as this is not what you've claimed. Notice how you have to keep changing your interpretation and are trying the "because my interpretation isn't RaW therefore there is no RaW" approach. Our approach is simply to follow the RaW. If you don't like the RaW that is fine and if you and your friends want to play your own made up rules then that's fine too. Do whatever you want to enjoy your hobby. But trying to confuse people who want to know the actual rules is not helpful.

Witchfire powers require you to roll to hit. Rolling zero dice does not satisfy this requirement.

Casting enfeeble on a vehicle does not end the game. It is perfectly legal to do so. There is nothing broken in its resolution.

Psychic Shriek is broken RAW. You are unable to resolve it RAW. You cannot resolve it as witchfire. You all are inventing concepts like zero shot shooting attack and rolling zero dice to hit which becomes HYWPI. You cannot claim RAW while inventing concepts.

If you insist on playing Psychic Shriek strictly RAW then it simply does nothing when you try to manifest it. You cannot satisfy all requisite steps.

Or the reasonable among you can play it like BAO, NOVA, and ETC, and resolve it as witchfire. Roll to hit. If successful, psychic shriek takes effect.

**JinxDragon**

Roll To Hit is then name of the Step and a Rule within the Step....
All one has to is obey the instructions within that Rule and they have "Roll-ed To Hit"