Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
welshhoppo wrote: I do know of the problems facing the Kurds, it's quite sad for them to be stuck between Turkey and ISIS on the other side. If Turkey was a nicer place for them, maybe that wouldn't have happened in the first place.
Kurds... there the only ones in region who deserve our help.
And also the least likely to get it. :(
I also agree, the West has ignored the plight of the Kurds since the start of the civil war.
DS:90-S+G+++M++B-IPw40k03+D+A++/fWD-R++T(T)DM+ Warmachine MKIII record 39W/0D/6L
welshhoppo wrote: I do know of the problems facing the Kurds, it's quite sad for them to be stuck between Turkey and ISIS on the other side. If Turkey was a nicer place for them, maybe that wouldn't have happened in the first place.
Kurds... there the only ones in region who deserve our help.
And also the least likely to get it. :(
I also agree, the West has ignored the plight of the Kurds since the start of the civil war.
If we supported the Kurds and gave them territory in northern Iraq to form Kurdistan (or whatever they'd want to call their country) they would naturally want to expand into territory claimed by Turkey, territory that Kurds and Turkey already fight over. That would mean we'd have to support the creation of a new state that would initiate a territorial dispute and likely overt military action against a country (Turkey) that has been a NATO member since 1952. So supporting the Kurds would put us in oppostion to a NATO ally that we're obligated by the NATO treaty to support.
What's the repercussion when we tell Turkey "Hayır, olmuyor !". (translated to "Nope, not happening!")
Against the us?
there powerful, not that powerful
Sgt. Vanden - OOC Hey, that was your doing. I didn't choose to fly in the "Dongerprise'.
"May the odds be ever in your favour"
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.
FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all.
welshhoppo wrote: I do know of the problems facing the Kurds, it's quite sad for them to be stuck between Turkey and ISIS on the other side. If Turkey was a nicer place for them, maybe that wouldn't have happened in the first place.
Kurds... there the only ones in region who deserve our help.
NO.
Kurdish groups have performed terrorists acts in Turkey, and Syria prior to the Syria freakout.
Kurdish groups in Iraq deserve our help, maybe, as a stabilizing force.
What's the repercussion when we tell Turkey "Hayır, olmuyor !". (translated to "Nope, not happening!")
Why do you assume we'll say nope? We'll stall until the election, so the next President can deal with the mess.
Alternatively we could tell Turkey to sod off, and join Russia. We had the Cold War long enough. Time to get the WWII band back together and join with Mother Russia, the UK, and China. :-)
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/07/20 17:17:11
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
Frazzled wrote: Well there goes that vacation to Turkey when I retire. I had wanted to see the ruins of Troy and the Hagia Sophia. Oh well.
More time to eat Italian food.
Somebody will destroy them one day for being "un-Islamic", just like Syria.
Regardless of how and why the coup came about, Erdogan obviously is using it as an excuse to consolidate semi-dictatorial control of the country.
I'm not so sure it was the Military launching the real Coup here. Are we sure it wasn't Erdogan himself launching a Coup, against the Constitution and his own fething country?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/07/20 17:38:35
Ok, it's time the West starts getting involved. Threaten expulsion from NATO, or something of the sort, if this crap doesn't stop. He's gone full tin pot dictator in the last week.
Unfortunately, realpolitik would suggest that keeping Turkey in NATO is in our interest right now.
Not hiding it now....
El Presidente for life has risen.
On the plus side, I suppose Turkey's EU application is on indefinite hold for say, a 1000 years or something...
Turkey isn't rejecting democracy and liberal values. Erdogan won the election for president by 51.9% in a campaign that was surrounded with accusations of lies and chicanery.
Now the 48.1% are supposed to shut up and accept whatever Erdogan says, "because Democracy".
Ok, it's time the West starts getting involved. Threaten expulsion from NATO, or something of the sort, if this crap doesn't stop. He's gone full tin pot dictator in the last week.
Unfortunately, realpolitik would suggest that keeping Turkey in NATO is in our interest right now.
Not hiding it now....
El Presidente for life has risen.
On the plus side, I suppose Turkey's EU application is on indefinite hold for say, a 1000 years or something...
Turkey isn't rejecting democracy and liberal values. Erdogan won the election for president by 51.9% in a campaign that was surrounded with accusations of lies and chicanery.
Now the 48.1% are supposed to shut up and accept whatever Erdogan says, "because Democracy".
ISWYDT:
Spoiler:
Putin is looking on the outside, salivating at an opportunity to establish Turkery as his "next sphere of influence".
No but this still does NOT condon the Coup d'Etat. It shouldn't be condon by any reasons.
Two Wrongs don't make one Right.
Right, and when the guy has become a literal dictator, and begins fething with the Constitution for his own benefit or suspends it altogether, what then? A black and white absolutist perspective just does not work here.
I hate to Godwin the thread, but if this guy wants to be a 21st century Fuhrer? Would you have agreed with a Coup against Hitler prior to 1933?
Sooner or later there comes a point of no return, at which point its too late to stop a dictator's rise to power. This failed "coup" might be Turkey's point of no return.
Anything to say now, Lone Cat? The 21st Century Turkish Fuhrer I predicted and you ridiculed is coming to pass.
Considering his background you can at least understand why he felt how he does.
It doesn't make him any less wrong however.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/07/20 17:50:27
Prestor Jon wrote: Because children don't have any legal rights until they're adults. A minor is the responsiblity of the parent and has no legal rights except through his/her legal guardian or parent.
Kilkrazy wrote: Turkey isn't rejecting democracy and liberal values. Erdogan won the election for president by 51.9% in a campaign that was surrounded with accusations of lies and chicanery.
Now the 48.1% are supposed to shut up and accept whatever Erdogan says, "because Democracy".
They're supposed to shut up and accept whatever Erdogan says because he'll have them rounded up and arrested if they don't.
Breotan wrote: Why? I was under the impression Putin didn't like Erdogan.
Relations are thawing again. Erdogan is gong to Russia soon, I think.
Realpolitik and all that jazz.
Meanwhile NATO and Europe will do nothing major to upset one of our primary eastern bulwarks and base of operations into the mid east. Erdogan has carte blanche to do whatever he wants. he wants to be a dictator? fine. He's already committed atrocities against his own people with no one in power batting an eyelid.
This topic got overshadowed by the recent shootings and bombings in the news, but what is happening in Turkey is absolutely staggering.
The latest article on Spiegel.de mentions 128 generals and admirals dismissed, along with up to 10.000 other military personnel. Reports of torture. There are arrest warrants for 42 journalists, most of which became famous or infamous for criticizing the government openly or reporting about corruption within governmental agencies, or weapon shipments to extremists in Syria. Over 1000 schools and 15 universities closed down. Even Turkish Airlines dismissed parts of their leadership for dubious reasons, just as their state telecommunication company. Hell, even the governmental religious agency dismissed about 1000 people, teachers and preachers, for alleged "connections" to the coup.
I'm really wondering if NATO, the EU, the US and the West in general will quietly accept Erdogans rise to dictatorship for realpolitik reasons or if some country or some leader will actually openly reject this new Turkey that Erdogan is forging.
With talks of Erdogan wanting to smooth the relationship with Russia and Putin, the West might be forced to take a position sooner than later.
Witzkatz wrote: This topic got overshadowed by the recent shootings and bombings in the news, but what is happening in Turkey is absolutely staggering.
The latest article on Spiegel.de mentions 128 generals and admirals dismissed, along with up to 10.000 other military personnel. Reports of torture. There are arrest warrants for 42 journalists, most of which became famous or infamous for criticizing the government openly or reporting about corruption within governmental agencies, or weapon shipments to extremists in Syria. Over 1000 schools and 15 universities closed down. Even Turkish Airlines dismissed parts of their leadership for dubious reasons, just as their state telecommunication company. Hell, even the governmental religious agency dismissed about 1000 people, teachers and preachers, for alleged "connections" to the coup.
I'm really wondering if NATO, the EU, the US and the West in general will quietly accept Erdogans rise to dictatorship for realpolitik reasons or if some country or some leader will actually openly reject this new Turkey that Erdogan is forging.
With talks of Erdogan wanting to smooth the relationship with Russia and Putin, the West might be forced to take a position sooner than later.
For your answer check out the post war history of Spain, Portugal and Greece.
Mustafa Kemal Atatürk must be spinning in his grave. Just a little more and I think we'll have an infinite energy source, just hook a turbine to his grave.
I'm starting to think Erdogan has gone full flying rodent gak crazy.
Er... could the US get their assets out easily?
Maybe move the operations to Greece?
I think that'd be a smart move to consider. Erdogan's rhetoric hasn't been really friendly to the US for some time now. He already openly accused the US of supporting or even having masterminded the coup.
I'm starting to think Erdogan has gone full flying rodent gak crazy.
Hostile moves on a US Military facility...
That's full lunatic....
Wait he cannot be... That dumb to steal the nukes.....
Please not be that dumb....
Its a airbase.
Long as you can fly jn you could airlift.. Got alot of Hercules, and the. C5 can haul the heaviest in us ground arsenal.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2016/07/31 09:27:29
Sgt. Vanden - OOC Hey, that was your doing. I didn't choose to fly in the "Dongerprise'.
"May the odds be ever in your favour"
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.
FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all.
Now is the time to look longer term. Like all dictators Erdogan is looking after his own power base.
For his own ends anti american, anti israeli and pro muslim protestors are allowed a say. Their power will grow as long as they are pro Erdogan. The military, the power behind the throne, is being neutered and will probably be further shackled to Erodgans whims.
When Erdogan goes - however that maybe - the vacum that is left will make the current state of affairs seem like a day at the fair.
I hope the guards will not let them even to the door of tactical weapons storage....
Trust Turkish police round nuclear weapons or such.... I seriously hope not...
Sgt. Vanden - OOC Hey, that was your doing. I didn't choose to fly in the "Dongerprise'.
"May the odds be ever in your favour"
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.
FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all.
jhe90 wrote: So they want to or have searched the base.
I hope the guards will not let them even to the door of tactical weapons storage....
Trust Turkish police round nuclear weapons or such.... I seriously hope not...
You are slightly paranoid about the nukes. The Turks won't touch them.
Ok.. But they are a concern...
How infiltrated and whole isil links to turkey.
Not a idea to mix that and those. Very dangerous idea.
Sgt. Vanden - OOC Hey, that was your doing. I didn't choose to fly in the "Dongerprise'.
"May the odds be ever in your favour"
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.
FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all.
Ashiraya wrote: I wonder if the US regrets storing nukes in Turkey now.
Called it though!
Well they are not messing with the nukes yet, but they are messing with the base they are in.
Erdogan does not need nukes. He wont want nukes, he does not need to become a nuclear terrorist. Becoming an international pariah is not on his agenda.
The Turks will not touch the nukes.
Being in the base is not the same as 'getting all the nueks!'
Mordant 92nd 'Acid Dogs'
The Lost and Damned
Inquisition
