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 Frazzled wrote:
Kerry needs to shut his pie hole. Ancient Budha say, lecturing guy you need for this other thing is bad.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 kronk wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
The Police too? Fething hell. I find it hard to believe the Coup had that many people involved.

Smells like he's taking the opportunity to purge not just the coup actors, but certain rivals and "sticky wickets" as well.

Thats how democracy dies, with thunderous applause.

And in this case, chants of Allahu Akbar...

Yep.

This is disturbing...
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/turkey-coup-disturbing-picture-shows-8437742

I am not entirely sure a lot of the pictures being posted are accurate. There have already been people trying to pass off pictures from a decade ago as what is happening right now in Turkey. I honestly hope none of this stuff is happening, but it might be. If it is happening, I am not sure how Nato is going to react and even more concerning, how Putin is going to react.

So if your military coup fails in Turkey, deos that mean it all went turducken??? Get it turducken!!! Laugh, or like your dad I'll keep telling the joke in front of your friends. YOU KNOW I WILL.

 Frazzled wrote:
So if your military coup fails in Turkey, deos that mean it all went turducken??? Get it turducken!!! Laugh, or like your dad I'll keep telling the joke in front of your friends. YOU KNOW I WILL.

wut? Frazz, turduckens are awesome, failed coup d'etats are full of fail, turduckens are full of awesome tasty bird meat.

Turducken, when your wife asks if you would like turkey, chicken, or duck for dinner, and just can't decide.

Turducken, like Turkey but without the tanks.

Do you ever wonder what the major Middle Eastern Powers are doing to sort out their own back yard?

I mean, look at Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates, Isreal, Egypt do they have any interest in Turkey? Do they have any interest in peace?

I understand the whole "Iraq war destabilised the region" argument but is there any effort being displayed by anyone to help Turkey with its Syrian refugees and Radical Islamic President or does all the power still lie with the the Radical states so more Secular states like Egypt can't really get involved without dangerous repercussions?

If nothing else, then the past weekends excitement has 100% ended Turkeys chances of joining the EU in the next....ooohhh 25 years?

 theCrowe wrote:
Do you ever wonder what the major Middle Eastern Powers are doing to sort out their own back yard?

I mean, look at Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates, Isreal, Egypt do they have any interest in Turkey? Do they have any interest in peace?

I understand the whole "Iraq war destabilised the region" argument but is there any effort being displayed by anyone to help Turkey with its Syrian refugees and Radical Islamic President or does all the power still lie with the the Radical states so more Secular states like Egypt can't really get involved without dangerous repercussions?

Turkey is a substantial power. If I were Turkey, that last thing I would want is Iran or the Gulf State's help. Iran (Persia) is a historic enemy of Turkey/Ottoman Empire.

Pistols at Dawn wrote:
If nothing else, then the past weekends excitement has 100% ended Turkeys chances of joining the EU in the next....ooohhh 25 years?

Erdogan doesn't care. He has no interest in joining the EU anymore; he's out to carve a Turkish power bloc out of the Middle East.

AFP news reporting that thousands of teachers, university lecturers, state education department employees have been suspended.

https://www.afp.com/en/news/15/turkey-suspends-15000-education-staff-after-coup

They must have been involved in the coup. Maybe they were knocking Erdogan supporters out with heavy school textbooks...

This is genuinely beginning to stink of 'orchestrated coup'.

 Ketara wrote:
This is genuinely beginning to stink of 'orchestrated coup'.

I'm not convinced by that argument, but I have no doubt that Erdogan is milking the crisis for all its worth. It's more than likely he's had these hit lists drawn up for months, and was just waiting for the right moment to spring them...

 LethalShade wrote:

 Lone Cat wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:
This was going to end badly no matter the outcome. It would have been a sad day for democracy if the military had taken control, but it is an equally sad day for democracy that Erdogan remains in power. Erdogan may have been elected, but being elected does unfortenately not neccessarily make you a democratic leader. Hitler probably being the saddest example of this.
Erdogan is a dictator of the purest sort, and this failed coup will only serve to further his autocratic goals. It also stinks heavily of conspiracy. It reminds me a lot of the appartment bombings in Russia.

Erdogan being a villain is not a big deal if he's being voted out. Military coup is utterly evil no matter what and i am all against it.
But it is good that some two thousands corrupt jugdes lost their job and get caught. but should the persecutions extended to the public supporters of these renegades?

So because an increasingly authoritarian and dictatorial leader tells that 6000+ people are corrupt, you believe him ?

No but this still does NOT condon the Coup d'Etat. It shouldn't be condon by any reasons.

Two Wrongs don't make one Right.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

 Ketara wrote:
This is genuinely beginning to stink of 'orchestrated coup'.

I'm not convinced by that argument, but I have no doubt that Erdogan is milking the crisis for all its worth. It's more than likely he's had these hit lists drawn up for months, and was just waiting for the right moment to spring them...

He's had the lists drawn up for a while, if the papers today are accurate. He's just been waiting for an excuse.

I don't think the chief conspirators were any less, well...conspiratorial, but I have a strong suspicion that Erdogan's known about them for a while, and played them like a fiddle (probably by getting military personnel loyal to him to play along and make them think they had a better chance than they did). Everything was too badly placed for the coup attempt (in terms of assets and timing), and too well placed for him (from military personnel, to his location, to the speed and form of his response) for this to have been unforeseen and randomised.

It might walk like a duck, quack like a duck, and have a big label saying 'I am a duck', but if it looks nothing like a duck, you get suspicious.

 Lone Cat wrote:

 LethalShade wrote:

 Lone Cat wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:
This was going to end badly no matter the outcome. It would have been a sad day for democracy if the military had taken control, but it is an equally sad day for democracy that Erdogan remains in power. Erdogan may have been elected, but being elected does unfortenately not neccessarily make you a democratic leader. Hitler probably being the saddest example of this.
Erdogan is a dictator of the purest sort, and this failed coup will only serve to further his autocratic goals. It also stinks heavily of conspiracy. It reminds me a lot of the appartment bombings in Russia.

Erdogan being a villain is not a big deal if he's being voted out. Military coup is utterly evil no matter what and i am all against it.
But it is good that some two thousands corrupt jugdes lost their job and get caught. but should the persecutions extended to the public supporters of these renegades?

So because an increasingly authoritarian and dictatorial leader tells that 6000+ people are corrupt, you believe him ?

No but this still does NOT condon the Coup d'Etat. It shouldn't be condon by any reasons.

Two Wrongs don't make one Right.

Right, and when the guy has become a literal dictator, and begins fething with the Constitution for his own benefit or suspends it altogether, what then? A black and white absolutist perspective just does not work here.

I hate to Godwin the thread, but if this guy wants to be a 21st century Fuhrer? Would you have agreed with a Coup against Hitler prior to 1933?

Sooner or later there comes a point of no return, at which point its too late to stop a dictator's rise to power. This failed "coup" might be Turkey's point of no return.

Lone Cat's from a country where the military has overthrown the government (in the name of their dietified King usually) 12 times in the past 80 years... To put their comments into perspective.

 Wyrmalla wrote:
Lone Cat's from a country where the military has overthrown the government (in the name of their dietified King usually) 12 times in the past 80 years... To put their comments into perspective.

Oh, OK. Fair enough.

Still, I don't think this Coup in Turkey is anywhere near as morally black and white as he puts it. We all know what Erdogan is, and what he wants to turn Turkey into. We all know what he's doing to anyone and everyone that opposes him. What if a Coup is the only way to stop a Dictator taking power?

Coups are not always wrong.

Especially when Turkey's constitution tasks the military with being the defender of democracy.

 Wyrmalla wrote:
Lone Cat's from a country where the military has overthrown the government (in the name of their dietified King usually) 12 times in the past 80 years... To put their comments into perspective.

That's right. This is why i'm so furious of any comments that condons the Coup in Turkey.

And none of these Coups lead to my national progress. Especially the last two ones did ruin my homeland considerably. Once a country that has a dream to be the next (United States of) America, is now nothing short of (Latin) america.

the 1997 Constitutions did provide an 'edible democracy' to much of the national folks who... before then, were disenfranchised. Originally there were fears that the majority of Thai citizenry --who were considered 'poorly educated' may be easily bought off by corrupt politicians (some are indeed corrupts and are gangsters). the 9 year tenure did prove otherwise.. the folks did learn to be responsive to their chosen candidates. they did experience that their representatives DID speak for them and indeed granted them more access to national infrastructures and services than before. 9 years that came with the Industrializations and IT revolutions did create a considerable numbers of political active citizens.. the previously 'silenced' voices of 'enlightenment' became loud once again in recent years because most of the nations feel the changes that uninterrupted democracy granted to. (And the military juntas failed to offer any!) so any offers given by the Aristocrats (a groups of self proclaimed 'superior people' who believes themself alturistic to its nations and fellow citizens don't) are considered lies.

And this is why I oppose the Turkish Coup against Erdogan. (as well as the 19th September 2006 Coup, and the 22nd May 2014 ones that propelled the villainous NCPO)

 Lone Cat wrote:

 Wyrmalla wrote:
Lone Cat's from a country where the military has overthrown the government (in the name of their dietified King usually) 12 times in the past 80 years... To put their comments into perspective.

That's right. This is why i'm so furious of any comments that condons the Coup in Turkey.

I'm not condoning it. I'm refusing to condemn it out of hand like you are.

Are you really suggesting Erdogan is a democrat? He's a wannabe Bashar Al Assad or Saddam Hussain.

Even if Erdogan is not. it is what Turkish citizens as a whole to judge in the next election, not a handful of these military men to do it. Do you expect that these wanna-be Military Juntas will keep a promise? do you expect that they will not suffer a 'Power Corrupts' syndrome? Who knows if the Coups became a success, will the Junta extorts fellow Turkish of their 'deeds'?

 Lone Cat wrote:
Even if Erdogan is not. it is what Turkish citizens as a whole to judge in the next election, not a handful of these military men to do it. Do you expect that these wanna-be Military Juntas will keep a promise? do you expect that they will not suffer a 'Power Corrupts' syndrome? Who knows if the Coups became a success, will the Junta extorts fellow Turkish of their 'deeds'?

And what makes you think it'll be a fair election? The guy has suspended and/or arrested thousands of soldiers, police, judges and teachers.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 Lone Cat wrote:
Even if Erdogan is not. it is what Turkish citizens as a whole to judge in the next election, not a handful of these military men to do it. Do you expect that these wanna-be Military Juntas will keep a promise? do you expect that they will not suffer a 'Power Corrupts' syndrome? Who knows if the Coups became a success, will the Junta extorts fellow Turkish of their 'deeds'?

And what makes you think it'll be a fair election? The guy has suspended and/or arrested thousands of soldiers, police, judges and teachers.

He must mean like the last election for Prime Minister, where there was only one name on the ballot.

 welshhoppo wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 Lone Cat wrote:
Even if Erdogan is not. it is what Turkish citizens as a whole to judge in the next election, not a handful of these military men to do it. Do you expect that these wanna-be Military Juntas will keep a promise? do you expect that they will not suffer a 'Power Corrupts' syndrome? Who knows if the Coups became a success, will the Junta extorts fellow Turkish of their 'deeds'?

And what makes you think it'll be a fair election? The guy has suspended and/or arrested thousands of soldiers, police, judges and teachers.

He must mean like the last election for Prime Minister, where there was only one name on the ballot.

I take it from your resorting to What-about-ism that you have no valid arguments?

Anyway, we do not elect our Prime Ministers and never have.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 welshhoppo wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 Lone Cat wrote:
Even if Erdogan is not. it is what Turkish citizens as a whole to judge in the next election, not a handful of these military men to do it. Do you expect that these wanna-be Military Juntas will keep a promise? do you expect that they will not suffer a 'Power Corrupts' syndrome? Who knows if the Coups became a success, will the Junta extorts fellow Turkish of their 'deeds'?

And what makes you think it'll be a fair election? The guy has suspended and/or arrested thousands of soldiers, police, judges and teachers.

He must mean like the last election for Prime Minister, where there was only one name on the ballot.

I take it from your resorting to What-about-ism that you have no valid arguments?

Anyway, we do not elect our Prime Ministers and never have.

It was the only mental example I had about Turkey and its totally fair elections. At the party's last election for a new leader, there was only one name on the list. And that man was also a total tool who belongs to a single man.

 welshhoppo wrote:
It was the only mental example I had about Turkey and its totally fair elections. At the party's last election for a new leader, there was only one name on the list. And that man was also a total tool who belongs to a single man.

Heh. Thought you were talking about the British Prime Minister.

I withdraw my snark.

Is this the Prime Minister you're talking about?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binali_Yıldırım

Thats the guy.

Sorry about the confusion. But at least our conservative leader started out with more than one person on the ballot. Shame most of them dropped out and ended up getting cabinet jobs :p

Watching the news. What's with all the Nuremberg rally style displays?
It's like watching "Triumph of the Will" on the news at ten!