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 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

 Selym wrote:
That and they *may* be allowed to be taken alongside a bolter, for no detriment.

Seems you're convinced the Shotgun is going to be FAQ'd to two-handed.
I'm looking at the Plasma Pistols and Hand Flamers as well, both are pistols so you can use both of them in shooting or overwatch and you're packing two melee weapons to boot.

He means you're effectively switch between the Shotgun and the Bolter. Currently no other bread and butter troops can keep their primary firearm when getting an alternative, which is a huge boon since it gives them even more options. If Selym implied that they might Errata this into "Replace bolter" then that's a good assumption, as most other cases like this is usually "replace" as well.

The "two handed" rule hasn't mattered (or even applied to) to ranged weapons for at least three editions now.

Actually, Grey Hunters can carry three weapons and that hasn't been FAQ'd out.
They take close combat weapons, they're paying for them but they're also not swapping for them so if you cough up the 2ppm they're carrying Bolters, Bolt Pistols and Close Combat weapons, giving them an extra attack in close combat.
Swapping between a Shotgun and Bolter doesn't seem so wild when versatility seems to be Deathwatch's biggest strength

Ork nobs can have 2 shootas

I didn't know it came from juggling around weapons. Apologies.

However I did say bread and butter troops; characters have always been able to take a comical assortment of weapons, just that most people generally don't buy two ranged weapons for them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

 Selym wrote:
That and they *may* be allowed to be taken alongside a bolter, for no detriment.

Seems you're convinced the Shotgun is going to be FAQ'd to two-handed.
I'm looking at the Plasma Pistols and Hand Flamers as well, both are pistols so you can use both of them in shooting or overwatch and you're packing two melee weapons to boot.

He means you're effectively switch between the Shotgun and the Bolter. Currently no other bread and butter troops can keep their primary firearm when getting an alternative, which is a huge boon since it gives them even more options. If Selym implied that they might Errata this into "Replace bolter" then that's a good assumption, as most other cases like this is usually "replace" as well.

The "two handed" rule hasn't mattered (or even applied to) to ranged weapons for at least three editions now.

Actually, Grey Hunters can carry three weapons and that hasn't been FAQ'd out.
They take close combat weapons, they're paying for them but they're also not swapping for them so if you cough up the 2ppm they're carrying Bolters, Bolt Pistols and Close Combat weapons, giving them an extra attack in close combat.
Swapping between a Shotgun and Bolter doesn't seem so wild when versatility seems to be Deathwatch's biggest strength

I said primary weapon, not sidearms or their butterknife.

Most people model that 'butterknife' as a Chainsword, as for the Wolves far more carry Bolt Pistols than Bolters in the fluff and they definitely see more use on the tabletop so I'd argue that the Bolter is not their 'primary' weapon, Bolt Pistol and Chainsword are.

Whatever floats your boat. I already got my point across.

Thoughts on drop pods for a deathwatch force?

They can be taken as dedicated transports for the veterans, and can carry any of the other footslogging infantry, and even the dreadnoughts, but not the vanguards and the bikes... (if my understanding of transport rules is correct...)

In the context of a kill team that has ten models, if one of them is a terminator, then a drop pod deployement for that killteam is out of the question, since there is no room in the pod for the whole killteam to be deployed together, right?

Or is there somewhere a rule that says that a squad can be deployed in several transports?

I have a feeling that at least my venerable dreadnought will be drop-podded in, but then I would need two more pods to fill to get to an 'optimal' three pods... If mixed kill teams can't fit in them, then are they simply worthless in a decurion-style force of killteams?

Am I missing something?

In squads that count as 11 models or more (iirc), they're ALMOST useless, they still count for the drop pod assault rule so you can take a bunch of termies/bikes/vanguard, get a drop pod, and have another 2 units/killteams come in first turn in their pods.

Ah, right, you mean get the pod as dedicated transports for each of the veteran squads, even those that are part of killteams that cannot embark in a pod, and if they are not the squad in the pod during the pod assault, is that it?

 ChaosDad wrote:
Ah, right, you mean get the pod as dedicated transports for each of the veteran squads, even those that are part of killteams that cannot embark in a pod, and if they are not the squad in the pod during the pod assault, is that it?

More or less. Even if you can't put the team in it, and are taking another 2 kill teams/dreads anyways, you can still buy them all DPs, then have the ones that are filled drop in while leaving the empty ones in reserves.

Oh, that is sneaky... I like it...

Basically I pay a 35 point tax to buy an extra empty pod that never needs to come in (unless I want to put a beacon and missile launcher in it....) so that the two drop pods that have something in it come together on the first turn...

Can't you buy one as FA?

 Selym wrote:
Can't you buy one as FA?

Only works if you run a CAD/allied detachment, if you run a black spear, then you don't have that option.

 Selym wrote:
Can't you buy one as FA?

Yes, but then I would have get out of the Black Spear Strike Force decurion chart, wouldn't I?

So far on my list I have three killteams, so by default three veterans squad who can each take a drop pod as dedicated transport...

Hold on, there is something I'm missing, here... I thought that squads couldn't begin the game in a transport that was the dedicated transport purchased for another squad...
(dammit, now I'm getting confused....)

Ok, let's say my list is this:

Captain
Killteam 1 with 5 vets, a chaplain, a librarian and a terminator, taking a drop pod 1 as DT
Killteam 2 with 5 vets, 3 vanguards and 2 terminators, taking a drop pod 2 as DT
Killteam 3 with 5 vets, 4 vanguard and a bike.
Venerable dreadnought, taking a drop pod 3 as DT.

On the first turn I deploy drop pods 1 (with killteam 1) and 3 (with the dread), and drop pod 2 is never used, since the squad doesn't fit in it...

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
I didn't know it came from juggling around weapons. Apologies.

However I did say bread and butter troops; characters have always been able to take a comical assortment of weapons, just that most people generally don't buy two ranged weapons for them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

 Selym wrote:
That and they *may* be allowed to be taken alongside a bolter, for no detriment.

Seems you're convinced the Shotgun is going to be FAQ'd to two-handed.
I'm looking at the Plasma Pistols and Hand Flamers as well, both are pistols so you can use both of them in shooting or overwatch and you're packing two melee weapons to boot.

He means you're effectively switch between the Shotgun and the Bolter. Currently no other bread and butter troops can keep their primary firearm when getting an alternative, which is a huge boon since it gives them even more options. If Selym implied that they might Errata this into "Replace bolter" then that's a good assumption, as most other cases like this is usually "replace" as well.

The "two handed" rule hasn't mattered (or even applied to) to ranged weapons for at least three editions now.

Actually, Grey Hunters can carry three weapons and that hasn't been FAQ'd out.
They take close combat weapons, they're paying for them but they're also not swapping for them so if you cough up the 2ppm they're carrying Bolters, Bolt Pistols and Close Combat weapons, giving them an extra attack in close combat.
Swapping between a Shotgun and Bolter doesn't seem so wild when versatility seems to be Deathwatch's biggest strength

I said primary weapon, not sidearms or their butterknife.

RAW a Grey Hunter could have a Plasma Gun, Boltgun, and Bolt Pistol at the same time if they so choose (and pay the points).

 GoonBandito wrote:
I can't see why they'd disallow it. For some reason they decided not to give Veterans Bolt Pistols and instead give them CCWs, which is utterly pointless from a rules point of view other than to make Deathwatch Veterans the only Marines unable to shoot and charge by default. At least allowing them to carry a Boltgun and a Shotgun gives them the flexibility of the firepower of the Bolter and the Assault weapon capability of the Shotgun.

I thought it was odd that they didn't have bolt pistols. The only thing I can think of is that they want you to add an Infernus Heavy Bolter or Frag Cannon in there, seeing as they're assault weapons.

Also, the close combat weapons get replaced if they take a power sword, don't they? (Providing you don't swap it for the boltgun obviously).

Pretty sure its only Rhinos and Razorbacks that do not allow Bikes or Jump Infantry (or TDA) on board. Bikes are now Very Bulky, counting as 3 models when embarked, just like Jump Infantry and TDA are Bulky, counting as 2 models each. While the Corvus Blackstar does specificly state Jump Infantry and Bikes may embark, Drop Pods and Land Raiders have no restrictions listed. The Blackstar's permission appears to be redundant.

SJ

Jump units and bikes have arule saying they can't be transported unless the transport specifically allows it, while TDA simply gives the bulky rule.

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
Pretty sure its only Rhinos and Razorbacks that do not allow Bikes or Jump Infantry (or TDA) on board. Bikes are now Very Bulky, counting as 3 models when embarked, just like Jump Infantry and TDA are Bulky, counting as 2 models each. While the Corvus Blackstar does specificly state Jump Infantry and Bikes may embark, Drop Pods and Land Raiders have no restrictions listed. The Blackstar's permission appears to be redundant.

SJ

BRB states "a transport may only carry infantry models (not including jump/jet pack infantry) unless otherwise stated"

So land raiders can take bulky models, as long as they are infantry, razors and rhinos have an additional restriction for bulky models

So what are people's thoughts on Blackstar? How should be armed? How should it be used? Is it viable as an assault transport?

 Crimson wrote:
So what are people's thoughts on Blackstar? How should be armed? How should it be used? Is it viable as an assault transport?

I'm thinking it's best kept simple, keep the Missiles, and buy the halo launcher.

Use it to deliver an aquila team with some HTH to bring down the biggest thing in their army. If it's a WK concussive will help, If it's an IK 4 S8 AP2 shots still aren't bad.

Seems like a solid drop ship, not great for spamming, but a good delivery for a kitted out team.

I just want to start it on the board. :/ Someone already pointed out that without some nice ability to more or less guarantee a turn 2 arrival, you may end up with 200+ points sitting of the table for most of the game.

I'll pick one or two up because they look awesome, but I think most of my force will be ferried around in the classic razorback.

What about a landing pad and that locator beacon relic? Turn two charge and then reset for another attack run.

I just realised that a space marine wearing a HTH + a rad grenade inquisitor means a dead monstruous creature (carnifex, trygon, everything with T6 etc...) with only one wound inflicted.
Ok, I'm not playing hyper competitive, but, wow, that's interesting !
Or a big boss, without the need of an inquisitor.
I wasn't impressed by the HTH before, but I guess I'm just too slow^^

Or, for the most competitive players here, do you think it will be useful against the bike mounted characters ? How to catch them ?

 Eldarain wrote:
What about a landing pad and that locator beacon relic? Turn two charge and then reset for another attack run.

Bah! Thank you! I totally forgot that was a thing. Oh, and it'd look so cool too.

Kay, I'm excited again.

 Blacksails wrote:

 Eldarain wrote:
What about a landing pad and that locator beacon relic? Turn two charge and then reset for another attack run.

Bah! Thank you! I totally forgot that was a thing. Oh, and it'd look so cool too.

Kay, I'm excited again.

A Stalker/Heavy team up there would be nice too as the game goes on.

 Eldarain wrote:

 Blacksails wrote:

 Eldarain wrote:
What about a landing pad and that locator beacon relic? Turn two charge and then reset for another attack run.

Bah! Thank you! I totally forgot that was a thing. Oh, and it'd look so cool too.

Kay, I'm excited again.

A Stalker/Heavy team up there would be nice too as the game goes on.

Oh man, this just keeps getting better.

I am getting one to start with. Should be able to keep the plane on the table for the first three or four turns depending on enemy attention and jink dice.

I was thinking of adding some extreme MSU with solo Vanguards with double hand Flamer.

Have them hop around burning light infantry off objectives and score ITC Maelstrom points. Figure I'll embark one when I deep strike the plane back to keep him for late game burninating.

This release is awesome.

Could only do the small units of vets with a CAD, right?
And what are people using to model hand Flamers and inferno pistols?

 Buzzdady wrote:
Could only do the small units of vets with a CAD, right?
And what are people using to model hand Flamers and inferno pistols?

30k hand flamers for me

One of those pointing hands. Paint it red and say that a jet of flame comes from the finger.

Only works for Salamanders and their successors though.