The Worst Unit In The Game

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**Backspacehacker**

I would also like to cast a vote for the big huge khorne skull crusher thing, with the big tanks of skulls on its back, has tank treads and a weird upper body with arms and axes

**Martel732**

Backspacehacker wrote:
I would also like to cast a vote for the big huge khorne skull crusher thing, with the big tanks of skulls on its back, has tank treads and a weird upper body with arms and axes

OHHH... that thing is bad. Is it land raider bad? Maybe!

**Backspacehacker**

Martel732 wrote:
Backspacehacker wrote:
I would also like to cast a vote for the big huge khorne skull crusher thing, with the big tanks of skulls on its back, has tank treads and a weird upper body with arms and axes

OHHH... that thing is bad. Is it land raider bad? Maybe!

Lord of skulls that's it!

**Waaaghpower**

MinscS2 wrote:
Tzaangors are fine if used in their formation.

They can run and charge with fleet, hit like a Assault Marine (WS4, S4, I4, 3 attacks) on the charge most of the time, which isn't that impressive untill you remember that they are 7 ppm (never *ever* spend 1 ppm on that autopistol!), then add the fact that they belong in one of the most powerful psychic armies in the game for some sweet buffs. (Like a 3++ due to MoT).

20 Tzaangors (140 pts) from that formation would rip trough 30 Slugga Boyz /w pimped out Nob (220 pts?) point for point on the charge (which they are likely to get.)
(60 attacks, 30 hits, 15 wounds, 13 dead boyz. 16 boyz and nob retaliates. boyz deal ~5,42 wounds, Nob deals 1,38 wounds = 6 dead Tzaangors. Tzaangors win by 7, Orks suffer more casualties due to Mobrule.)

That mandatory Sorcerer is best used with a Jumppack with some spawns from the same formation (both have fleet), or simply put him in a different unit.

If nothing else, they're a 7 ppm troop choice in an army, where the second cheapest troop choice is 23 ppm.

Your math is bad. The Sluggaboyz will get 2 Wounds in Overwatch first, meaning 11 wounds on the boyz. Your math on the Boyz' wounds was already low, and on top of that two more boyz means 7.5 wounds, plus the Nob dealing exactly 1 wound. The final result is 11 wounds on the boyz, 10.5 wounds on the Tzaangors.

Also, you're assuming that the Tzaangors have their formation bonus, aren't charging through terrain, and that the Orks don't have *any* bonuses. (Keep in mind, Ork Boyz can run and charge with psuedo-fleet whenever they want.)

If we flip the script, 20 slugga boys vs 30 Tzaangors, the Slugga boys will cause 3 wounds with shooting, charge, suffer 12 wounds, and then inflict 7 wounds - Technically a loss by 2 wounds in total, but with 120pts of models vs 210. 30 boys vs 30 Tzaangors, the Boyz will kick the Tzaangors up and down the street when they charge.

**MinscS2**

Since you didn't compare them in a vacuum and assumed a bunch of things (you can't play the what-if-game in a comparison), let's just pretend that there's a Chaos Rhino with Dirge Caster nearby...
Yes there might be terrain in the way, and the boyz might have a painboy in them, and the tzaangors might have a 3++, but for the sake of the comparison, keep it simple.

It's true that my math was off though, I forgot that boys are A2, so those 16 boyz would deal 10 wounds and not 5,42, so they would kill 11 Tzaangors in return (but still loose, albeit barely.)

WIth that said, you get 30 Tzaangors with a Twistbray for the same points as 30 Slugga Boyz with kitted out Nob, so I'm not sure why I compared 20 Tzaangors to 30 boyz in the first place.

**SemperMortis**

Vankraken wrote:

I don't put rokkits on the wagon if it has a killkannon and also your focusing the Battlewagon with Flash Gitz inside which means your ignoring all the melee units zooming up the field to smash face. Gitz work when they are in a hard to crack shell while the rest of the army are higher threat targets. I tend to run Blitz Brigades so I have 5 Battlewagons which means your having to pick which AV14 box you want to crack open and the gitz wagon is usually the lowest priority of the 5. Gitz don't have a 1 turn payoff but given time they work their magic and take chunks out of the enemy and stick around until turn 3 or 4 where they have done their damage and still have some punch left in them. Are there better options such as tankbusta or bike spam? Sure but I don't feel like I'm gimping myself by taking them because they serve the roll of fire support against high armor targets. Kommandos, Stormboyz, Deff Dreads, Half the Mek Guns, standard Nobz, Burna Bommers, and even Shoota Boyz tend to not be very useful to me and that is just listing entries in the Ork codex. Gitz are far from useless and in no way deserve "The Worst Unit" title.

if you are taking a Blitz brigade with your flash gitz that means your spending 385pts for the Gitz with their wagon and 440pts (Minimum) for those other 4 wagonz. Also if you don't take at least 1 weapon extra your going to lose your Kill Kannon when you get weapon destroyed. So lets do the math here. If you equip every wagon with 4 weapons and a ram each and give the gitz their wagon with zero weapons (for what ever reason) that means before you buy anything else your spending 900pts on the wagonz and gitz. leaving you with 600pts to buy Boyz for the remaining wagonz. if you equip each boyz squad with a Nob/PK your going to have 18boyz with a Nob/PK in 4 wagonz and 1 wagon of gitz in a killkannon wagon.

I would ignore the gitz for 1-2 turns because their damage output is minimal and they aren't scary. When they do get in range I can either hit them with Flanking anti-tank weapons or flamer weapons. For 22pts gitz suck. Realistically for those 22pts your paying for a single S5 Ap(D6) shot every turn. So anyway I still vote gitz.

**Waaaghpower**

MinscS2 wrote:
Since you didn't compare them in a vacuum and assumed a bunch of things (you can't play the what-if-game in a comparison), let's just pretend that there's a Chaos Rhino with Dirge Caster nearby...
Yes there might be terrain in the way, and the boyz might have a painboy in them, and the tzaangors might have a 3++, but for the sake of the comparison, keep it simple.

It's true that my math was off though, I forgot that boys are A2, so those 16 boyz would deal 10 wounds and not 5,42, so they would kill 11 Tzaangors in return (but still loose, albeit barely.)

WIth that said, you get 30 Tzaangors with a Twistbray for the same points as 30 Slugga Boyz with kitted out Nob, so I'm not sure why I compared 20 Tzaangors to 30 boyz in the first place.

You know that Boys are S3 normally too, right? (Furious Charge makes them S4 a lot of the time.) If they were 1a base, they'd only deal around 4 wounds.
When compared point to point, though, it pretty much comes down to who gets the charge/has advantage from outside sources. (Though, when Tzaangors win the Orks take a couple extra wounds, when Orks win the Tzaangors break and run.) Orks are nowhere near the worst unit in the Codex, they're actually pretty decent internally, so that means Tzaangors aren't the worst choice either.

**MagicJuggler**

MinscS2 wrote:
MagicJuggler wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Or some math: For the same cost as a single ML 3 Spell Familiar Exalted Sorcerer, you can run 2 Heralds and 2 units of 11 Blue Horrors. For the cost of 2 such Sorcerers, you can run 4 Heralds and 4 Horror units, AND you can farm off 3 of those Heralds into Heralds Anarchic and get 3 more Warp Charge for free. Even with without re-rolling to manifest, that's the almost same chance of chances to get Forewarning (you can get duplicates alas), 15 Warp Charge versus 6, and actual board presence. Not to mention these two options are in the same book!

So go play Daemons then?

I don't mind all the WAAC-players jumping ship frankly, I'm tired of seeing so called "Thousand Sons"-lists which contains only 25% actual Thousand Sons, and the rest in some sort of allies (Tzeentch Daemons, other Chaos Legions, etc.)

I remember a tournament-winning Ork list. The only Ork detachment was Mogrok's Bossboyz, and everything else was Daemons, Fateweaver et al.

It's bad internal balance that leads to possibilities like running Typhus and Plague Zombies just to unlock Magnus.

**slip**

Vankraken wrote:
SemperMortis wrote:
Vankraken wrote:
I use Flash Gitz almost every game I play my Orks and they reliably do decent work. I like them a lot more than Shoota Boyz and their volume of fire makes up for the RNG AP. Great against bikes which declare their jink before the AP roll so they either risk getting their armor melted by a low AP roll or they ended up jinking against AP6. Battlewagon is a must for them but honestly I like Battlewagons so they are commonly used in my lists. Great synergy with Killkannons which the 12 model capacity is a non factor for Gitz which max at 10 models per unit.

10 gitz with a Killkannon BW w/Ram,4(rokkitz/Big shootas) = 385pts. If you fire the Kill Kannon you have to snapfire your Gitz (Unless they changed that)

in a 1,500pt game I would focus fire AP1-2 weapons at that thing and kill it turn 1 or turn 2 and against an AP1 weapon it would be +3 to explode so a 4+ (50% chance) you would lose 4-5wounds on those guyz. And on a turn that they get in range to use those weapons they are getting 10 S5 hits. Against non-jinking SM Bikers thats only 5 wounds with a 50% chance of ignoring their armor.

You might be able to use them but against a competent opponent you will lose every time because they don't have the range, accuracy or durability to matter.

I don't put rokkits on the wagon if it has a killkannon and also your focusing the Battlewagon with Flash Gitz inside which means your ignoring all the melee units zooming up the field to smash face. Gitz work when they are in a hard to crack shell while the rest of the army are higher threat targets. I tend to run Blitz Brigades so I have 5 Battlewagons which means your having to pick which AV14 box you want to crack open and the gitz wagon is usually the lowest priority of the 5. Gitz don't have a 1 turn payoff but given time they work their magic and take chunks out of the enemy and stick around until turn 3 or 4 where they have done their damage and still have some punch left in them. Are there better options such as tankbusta or bike spam? Sure but I don't feel like I'm gimping myself by taking them because they serve the roll of fire support against high armor targets. Kommandos, Stormboyz, Deff Dreads, Half the Mek Guns, standard Nobz, Burna Bommers, and even Shoota Boyz tend to not be very useful to me and that is just listing entries in the Ork codex. Gitz are far from useless and in no way deserve "The Worst Unit" title.

You can get a wraithknight or a Titan with points to spare. Hell you can take the itc stompa at that price point. Point for point I'd take anything else in the game. You wanna talk options or stats or whatever, the grots would be the worst unit in the game sure. I'd still take 385 points of grots over that set up. If it's a battle wagon and grots, hell, it's no contest.

You are right that there are other bad units. Shoota boys and mek guns are up there. Kommandos definitely. The only units worth taking in the codex are tankbustas, MANz, war bikes, deffkoptas, grots, lootas, and battle wagons.

**Tyranno**

I see no reason Assault Terminators should get into combat and their defence against standard fire is no better than a Tactical Squad's.

Whatever you think of Tactical Squads or Terminators, their fire can at least make some difference no matter how minimal. Assault Terminators can be easily avoided.

**Cptn_Cronssant**

Are Pyrovores still worthless?

**War Kitten**

Cptn_Cronssant wrote:
Are Pyrovores still worthless?

Last time I checked they were

**Arson Fire**

They're a unit apparently designed to inflict damage to the enemy when they take wounds in close combat.
Their intended purpose is to be beaten to death. They're not even very good at it.

Yes, they still suck.

However there are now other things which suck worse. Within the same faction you have Maleceptors, which damage themselves as much as the enemy, and cripple your army while doing it.