Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 BBAP wrote:
I remember Kommandos from 4th/5th Edition. Everyone feared and loathed them. Are they bad now?

Rough Riders were always terrible. How did I forget about them?

That was probably because you used to be able to attach non-Infiltrate ICs to an Infiltrating unit so people could attach Ghazghkull and Outflank behind enemy lines where he'd run amok. I've not seen anyone using them since the new codex dropped and I'm certainly not enticed to try them very often.

I've also had some limited success with rough riders. They're quite niche but they're really good at killing 3+ stuff. I just got a min squad with a meltabomb sarge. That's it. They're overpriced and very fragile but if you really like the little horse dudes, there's no reason to not use a min squad. They'll likely have targets.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As for kommandoes - they were good cause they charged from outflank and you could afford to wait a couple turns for the reserves to arrive. Also, a hidden power klaw nob was very good back than. It could kill anything. Yes, there was a time when fists were the answer to even the most op stuff. No invis. No 2++, no re-rollable saves. Fnp was rare and got ignored by any ap2, t5 was rare and quite expensive. And most importantly, no challenges and player-chosen wound allocation.

 koooaei wrote:
I've also had some limited success with rough riders. They're quite niche but they're really good at killing 3+ stuff. I just got a min squad with a meltabomb sarge. That's it. They're overpriced and very fragile but if you really like the little horse dudes, there's no reason to not use a min squad. They'll likely have targets.

I really really like the concept, but I'll probably just use the Krieg version, which at least have some semblance of durability. Either that or make my own version, with blackjack and hookers.

 Blacksails wrote:
Ratlings would rate pretty highly on a list of worst units. A handful of BS4 sniper shots on a fragile platform. Wooo. Rough Riders as well for being expensive, slightly faster guardsmen that want to charge, but aren't even particularly good at it. And then they're more or less useless after a single charge.

Come on, leave the little guys alone

I last played 40k when it was 5th edition, and I used to like taking them. Yeah, they'd fall over in a stiff breeze, but they were reasonably priced and had the scouts and infiltrate rule, and sniper rifles were half decent as well.

A decent unit for the points you paid.

I have no idea what they're like in later editions...

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:


I have no idea what they're like in later editions...

No one else knows either! They probably haven't seen a table globally this edition.

 Blacksails wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:


I have no idea what they're like in later editions...

No one else knows either! They probably haven't seen a table globally this edition.

They were fun models to paint and their backstory is pretty amusing, especially their love of petty crime

Oh yeah, fun idea for sure. Wasn't there a unique character they used to have for them?

 Blacksails wrote:
Oh yeah, fun idea for sure. Wasn't there a unique character they used to have for them?

I'm not sure - perhaps you're thinking of the Ogryns?

Damn it, I know they're bad on the tabletop as well, but Ogryns are another of my favourite units with a good backstory. Nork Deddog even made it to retirement.

Damn you GW for ruining my favourite units

IIRC they could take some Mongol-looking dude as sergeant upgrade

I'm pretty sure Sly Marbo was a Catachan pattern ratling.

Oh, about the rough riders. They actually used to be brutal before the 'update' when you could take the mongol special dude on mechano-horse. I remember the opponent being like: "huh, you're taking what unit?" and than they murdered a sm bike command squad before they got to strike. For like third the point cost.

Unfortunately, they've lost the mongol dude and actually became a bit more expensive now. But they can still pay off with just one charge vs any 3+ target (that's not invisible, ini6+ and doesn't kill them on overwatch). Last time i used them was, interestingly enough, vs another sm bike command squad - this time the iron hand one with 4+++ and a couple 3++ shields. The comsquad has just charged the remaining of a conscript squad but underestimated the power of 5+ re-rollable armor and didn't manage to finish the conscripts off. The next thing was a squad of 5 rough riders striding right from behind a wrecked chimera and charging in. Killed a 3++ dude, an apothecary and wounded a Librarian. Than they failed morale and withdrew - as conscript deaths were still too high - to regroup later on and claim an objective.

I vote the changeling.

He brings nothing to the table for a daemon army. He is a waste of points, nothing else.

Darkstrider is REALLY bad because of his points cost. He costs as much as an entire Firewarrior unit and as his unit takes casualties his effectiveness diminishes because his entire purpose is to make the rest of the unit better. He adds nothing to the units durability and he ends up just making the squad he joins a bigger target because in killing the unit your removing double the points off the board. Also his -1 toughness kit would be useful except you can get more firepower, wounds, ground control, and just total utility out of another Firewarrior squad.

Putting him in a Pathfinder unit is just asking for even more points lose and the only powerful weapons that would work well with his toughness reducer would be the Ion and Rail Rifles which are limited to 3 per unit and pathfinders have guardsmen armor but with those weapons rival the cost of special weapon space marines. Tau also lack vehicles with firepowers to shoot out of so its not like a metal bawks can keep them safe. In all he is entirely impractical in every way and is outclassed by the far more practical solution of just taking more infantry.

Pink horrors.

*ducks for cover as The Dakka, as a whole, swoops in to remove my head from my shoulders.


Nah, it's probably plain IG. Feth those guys.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
Pink horrors.

Not "the worst", but the Daemons Codex dudes are... not good. Warpflame is hateful and silly.

I'm going to have to back the tyranid maleceptor on this.
It's a hair over 200 points for a weaker than average TMC statline (4+ armour, really?), and is built solely around delivering a psychic power to the enemy.

The power in question being basically a psychic shriek variant, except it only affects a single model, deals D3 wounds on a failed test, and costs 2 warp charges.
Because you know, if you're going to make the powers effects weaker than the original, why not make it cost an extra warp charge too?
As someone mentioned earlier, it's about as likely to perils and wound itself, as it is to deal a wound to the enemy with this.

Oh, and it has the ability where it can cast this power up to 3 times a turn. For when you have some kind of mid-game brain rupture and decide to pour your entire armies pool of warp charges into this garbage fire.

My personal vote would go to the humble Tyranid Ripper. No ranged weapon, no synapse, dies to templates and ID, and doesn't do anything special like the other swarm unit (that I know of), the scarab swarm.

Electropriests would be great if they were like 45 points for a ten man squad. You could use them to hold objectives, twenty man units could tarpit units and you could sacrafice them without concern. But 90 points for five guys that are all going to die to the first unit that shoots at them?

Solis Luna Astrum wrote:
Electropriests would be great if they were like 45 points for a ten man squad. You could use them to hold objectives, twenty man units could tarpit units and you could sacrafice them without concern. But 90 points for five guys that are all going to die to the first unit that shoots at them?

...4.5pts/model for two S5/AP4 attacks apeice on T4 models with a 5++ and FNP? What would you price Grots at? -3pts? -4pts?

 carldooley wrote:
My personal vote would go to the humble Tyranid Ripper. No ranged weapon, no synapse, dies to templates and ID, and doesn't do anything special like the other swarm unit (that I know of), the scarab swarm.

Well, they can deepstrike (for a small points premium), and be objective secured. Which is why they still end up in some of my lists.
Sure they won't do anything after they arrive except sit there and eat each other. But they can still hold an objective while they're doing that.

I'd actually rate rippers as the second best tyranid troop choice, under mucolid spores.

 BBAP wrote:

 timetowaste85 wrote:
Pink horrors.

Not "the worst", but the Daemons Codex dudes are... not good. Warpflame is hateful and silly.

Yeah, but the summon-capable ML3 psykers in Troops whose primaris can put a dozen autocannon shots downrange is in contention for the best Troops choice in the game, not the worst.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

Solis Luna Astrum wrote:
Electropriests would be great if they were like 45 points for a ten man squad. You could use them to hold objectives, twenty man units could tarpit units and you could sacrafice them without concern. But 90 points for five guys that are all going to die to the first unit that shoots at them?

...4.5pts/model for two S5/AP4 attacks apeice on T4 models with a 5++ and FNP? What would you price Grots at? -3pts? -4pts?

T3, but yes that would be the best spam unit in the game if it was friggen 4.5 per model.

My vote goes to an extremely obscure unit. Corpseraker Apothacaries, part of the FW Tyrant's Legion list, are 50pts for a basic apothacary, w/o independant character, in a unit of 2+ servitors at 10/pp armed only with chainswords. Their only special ability is that if an enemy space marine (and only space marine) unit is wiped out within 6" of the apothacary's unit, roll a d6. On a 6, you earn an extravictory point. Vespids, pyrovores, fulgrites; I can see how you could potential use them, even if they are incredibly inferior to other options. Corpsetakers, I have no fething clue how you'd use them...

 nudibranch wrote:
My vote goes to an extremely obscure unit. Corpseraker Apothacaries, part of the FW Tyrant's Legion list, are 50pts for a basic apothacary, w/o independant character, in a unit of 2+ servitors at 10/pp armed only with chainswords. Their only special ability is that if an enemy space marine (and only space marine) unit is wiped out within 6" of the apothacary's unit, roll a d6. On a 6, you earn an extravictory point. Vespids, pyrovores, fulgrites; I can see how you could potential use them, even if they are incredibly inferior to other options. Corpsetakers, I have no fething clue how you'd use them...

Dark Harvest works on your own as well. +1 to VP if any SM is wiped out nearby... That said he's still possibly the worst unit in the Tyrant's Legion list, if only he could at the very least grant a FNP bubble or something rather then just to his servitors!

Dark eldar hellions------- just a bad unit.
jump movement
5+ save
t3
Short range guns that cant hurt armour
low number of cc attacks
13pts a piece
oh and no move though cover and a 'large' foot print so hiding is not easy at all. I really like them but just cant bring myself to use them.

Skullhammer wrote:
Dark eldar hellions------- just a bad unit.
jump movement
5+ save
t3
Short range guns that cant hurt armour
low number of cc attacks
13pts a piece
oh and no move though cover and a 'large' foot print so hiding is not easy at all. I really like them but just cant bring myself to use them.

Nah man, Bloodbrides are even less mobile, less ranged firepower, worse armor, and cost the same

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 Vector Strike wrote:
The FW kroot options sold so little that they went OOP. And they were pretty bad.

But I think those flamey Tyranids things get the prize. Pyrovores!

Not sure I agree on the FW Kroot. Knarloc Riders weren't impressive, but the Great Knarloc is a staggeringly cheap MC (51 (!)pts for a 5-Wound T5 MC with Stealth (Forests), though he does have a mandatory pack of 4-8 6pt Kroot following him around, being ablative wounds, and preventing him from running away).

That actually doesn't sound too bad if it can infiltrate in with kroot

Gentlemen may I present to you the Adepta Sororitas Sister Repentia squad. WS 4 with 2 attacks base, fearless, rage, fleet, STR 6 AP2 armorbane weapons, AND once per game they can get Feel No Pain on a 3+ in melee! At 17 points per model that's a lot of killing power for a reasonable price right?

Nope. With T3, Initiative 1 and an awesome 6++ save, they are one of the easiest to kill units in 40k. A squad of guardsmen with lasgun will butcher them in the shooting phase, and kill the rest before they swing in melee. Plus they have no access to an assault vehicle.

They're a completely oddball unit. They will savage vehicles and an equivalent point value of almost anything with Initiative 1 in a bloody exchange of mutually assured destruction in melee combat. But 5 Marines with bolters and a flamer with wipe them out for no losses.

IandI wrote:
Gentlemen may I present to you the Adepta Sororitas Sister Repentia squad. WS 4 with 2 attacks base, fearless, rage, fleet, STR 6 AP2 armorbane weapons, AND once per game they can get Feel No Pain on a 3+ in melee! At 17 points per model that's a lot of killing power for a reasonable price right?

Nope. With T3, Initiative 1 and an awesome 6++ save, they are one of the easiest to kill units in 40k. A squad of guardsmen with lasgun will butcher them in the shooting phase, and kill the rest before they swing in melee. Plus they have no access to an assault vehicle.

They're a completely oddball unit. They will savage vehicles and an equivalent point value of almost anything with Initiative 1 in a bloody exchange of mutually assured destruction in melee combat. But 5 Marines with bolters and a flamer with wipe them out for no losses.

Glass canon. You get what you pay for, I mean if you want to stick them in a rhino they might get a chance to kill some stuff.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

Solis Luna Astrum wrote:
Electropriests would be great if they were like 45 points for a ten man squad. You could use them to hold objectives, twenty man units could tarpit units and you could sacrafice them without concern. But 90 points for five guys that are all going to die to the first unit that shoots at them?

...4.5pts/model for two S5/AP4 attacks apeice on T4 models with a 5++ and FNP? What would you price Grots at? -3pts? -4pts?

Two attacks that require an inept opponent for you to use. Not to mention the ones you picked don't even have a shooting attack. Pick the unit with a measly 12" AP4 shooting attack and you loose the AP4 in melee. Maybe I'm being a little over the top at 4.5 points but with no transport, no deep strike and no infiltrate the only way to get these guys anywhere is by walking, and one or two two turns of S3 or better shooting takes them off the board. You can't use them as objective babysitters because again, they are too few and too easy to kill. Ninety points for five makes them a frail and expensive bodyguard for the Magos. It's too bad, I think they are really cool looking models but I haven't bought any because I can't come up with a way to play them that makes them worth the points they cost.