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Made in gb
Been Around the Block




I can see why people aren't excited, but I think there is a narrow range for where the rules could land where they have some use without making OoML the best order.

Giving Obsec for 1 CP is a great strat though
   
Made in au
Repentia Mistress




Campaign books *should* be side grades and I think this does that for OoOML. It just doesn't do anything if you weren't already making that choice.

It has casual/Crusade play. Especally of you want to take Junith, but I don't see it ending up on the top tables.

   
Made in us
Confessor Of Sins




Lammia wrote:
Campaign books *should* be side grades and I think this does that for OoOML. It just doesn't do anything if you weren't already making that choice.

It has casual/Crusade play. Especally of you want to take Junith, but I don't see it ending up on the top tables.


I kinda think that when the campaign book was written they assumed OoML wouldn't be a bottom 2 order.(You can argue a lot about SR vs OoML but I don't think there are that many people who would seriously contend that either are better than AS, BR, VH, or EC.) So they kept the abilities more conservative than they needed to.

The shoot when dying strat could have been on a 2+, Martyrs Pyre should have been something completely different, they could have pushed a couple of the other relics or warlord traits more (the imagifier relic could have been permanent and it wouldn't have made it OP).

The goal of campaign books is obviously to not let things get OP, but I think they had more headroom with OoML than they thought they did.

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Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut



Glasgow

I think ooml seems better now for a mono build than vh with a melee component and extra obsec etc it seems a reasonable jack of all trades but I don't think that defeats a half and half build because BR are so strong

In a half and half build

The undying cannoness vs the mw spammer are a close call I actually think I prefer the mw spammer it really depends what your facing ones a carnifex and one's a threat (for 2 fights maximum till it kills itself,)

But the vh strat is really strong on mm rets while you get less usefull strats for OoM bit there's a lot of them problem is I'm already CP tight

while the armour save and extra miracles seem a bit six of one half a dozen to the other.

I guess it seems really interchangeable to me with a lot depending on how much your opponent is spamming ap1-ap2 (as if its mostly 0 or 3+ ooml seems the better pick)

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/07/11 13:56:05


 
   
Made in au
Repentia Mistress




U02dah4 wrote:
I think ooml seems better now for a mono build than vh with a melee component and extra obsec etc it seems a reasonable jack of all trades but I don't think that defeats a half and half build because BR are so strong

In a half and half build

The undying cannoness vs the mw spammer are a close call I actually think I prefer the mw spammer it really depends what your facing ones a carnifex and one's a threat (for 2 fights maximum till it kills itself,)

But the vh strat is really strong on mm rets while you get less usefull strats for OoM bit there's a lot of them problem is I'm already CP tight

while the armour save and extra miracles seem a bit six of one half a dozen to the other.

I guess it seems really interchangeable to me with a lot depending on how much your opponent is spamming ap1-ap2 (as if its mostly 0 or 3+ ooml seems the better pick)
MW Canoness can heal too...

The damage output isn't all that different either w/ a blessed blade.

   
Made in us
Confessor Of Sins




Lammia wrote:
U02dah4 wrote:
I think ooml seems better now for a mono build than vh with a melee component and extra obsec etc it seems a reasonable jack of all trades but I don't think that defeats a half and half build because BR are so strong

In a half and half build

The undying cannoness vs the mw spammer are a close call I actually think I prefer the mw spammer it really depends what your facing ones a carnifex and one's a threat (for 2 fights maximum till it kills itself,)

But the vh strat is really strong on mm rets while you get less usefull strats for OoM bit there's a lot of them problem is I'm already CP tight

while the armour save and extra miracles seem a bit six of one half a dozen to the other.

I guess it seems really interchangeable to me with a lot depending on how much your opponent is spamming ap1-ap2 (as if its mostly 0 or 3+ ooml seems the better pick)
MW Canoness can heal too...

The damage output isn't all that different either w/ a blessed blade.


There are a couple of issues with the MW canoness that I think hold it back from being a contender over something more convential like Immortal Canoness or the Very Bloody Rose Canoness, 1 is that, at 3 wounds max, any counter attack will generally kill her outright. 2 Her damage output is only 'okay' without rerolls to go 6 fishing with. 3. Giving her rerolls requires righteous rage, which requires no Morvenn ( OoML builds generally like Morvenn) or Morvenn has to giver her her buff which denies it to other things. 4. Celestine and Stern both function in very similar ways but are more efficient (especially DEFENSIVELY).

I think in a Mono-OoML list she's going to be a high risk, high reward missile paired with either Rapturous Blows or Word of the Emperor, that will ride a rhino with Sacresants or Dominions, pop out, target down something more expensive than her, and immediately die and give you 2 miracle dice.

In multi-Order lists she's WAY too much of a meme to be better than a VH or BR Canoness.

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Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




I I recall correctly, when using the new relic sword every successful wound roll causes mortal wounds, not just 6's.

Rerolls would be nice but if that's correct then even just base WL trait + Relic Canoness channeling 2 wounds into the blade will be 6 attacks hitting on 2's at S6 every wound is 2 MW and that makes her crazy.
   
Made in ca
Dour Wolf Priest with Iron Wolf Amulet






Canada

Lanlaorn wrote:
I I recall correctly, when using the new relic sword every successful wound roll causes mortal wounds, not just 6's.

Rerolls would be nice but if that's correct then even just base WL trait + Relic Canoness channeling 2 wounds into the blade will be 6 attacks hitting on 2's at S6 every wound is 2 MW and that makes her crazy.

This appears to be true based on Goonhammer's report. If so, she can be a tactical nuke for you in one turn, maybe more if you have some Hospitaller support.

Also, for the Imagifier banner, that +1A would stack with War Hymns and any other attack buffs, eh? Could be some effective shenanigans that you could craft that way.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/11 23:01:29


   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




 Andilus Greatsword wrote:
Lanlaorn wrote:
I I recall correctly, when using the new relic sword every successful wound roll causes mortal wounds, not just 6's.

Rerolls would be nice but if that's correct then even just base WL trait + Relic Canoness channeling 2 wounds into the blade will be 6 attacks hitting on 2's at S6 every wound is 2 MW and that makes her crazy.

This appears to be true based on Goonhammer's report. If so, she can be a tactical nuke for you in one turn, maybe more if you have some Hospitaller support.

Also, for the Imagifier banner, that +1A would stack with War Hymns and any other attack buffs, eh? Could be some effective shenanigans that you could craft that way.


Yea, it's decent, although a Bloody Rose Canoness swinging an AP -4 sword with the "You can't use invulns" Blessing active is basically the same thing as mortal wounds and just gets better with relics and WL traits.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut



Glasgow

Again half and half take both
   
Made in us
Confessor Of Sins




Tacoma, WA, USA

Super short FAQ fixes the three errors we all knew it would:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/qZO9JfHAHPaC3lbF.pdf
   
Made in au
Repentia Mistress




It didn't even add the /model to the MM...

   
Made in us
Confessor Of Sins






How utterly useless in a book that had multiple real questions.

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Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut



Glasgow

Like what?
   
Made in au
Repentia Mistress




How many Cherubs a Ret squad in a turn?

   
Made in us
Confessor Of Sins




Lammia wrote:
How many Cherubs a Ret squad in a turn?


There's also a weird thing with Cherub dice vs Faith dice and how they work in non-sororitas armies and also some very specific readings of the cherub dice/AOF interation that imply you can use cherub dice without counting as using your AoF that turn.

There are also some people who still claim argent shroud don't get to move and advance and shoot with no penalty out of transports, but that's mostly because almost every tournament player does disembark wrong.

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Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut



Glasgow

Well the ret squad thing 2 is raw

I get that some people fath with it and confirmation would be nice but even goonhammer have changed their tune and there seems concensus amongst the TOs in this area at least.

As to the second

Models with the AoF rule don't generate miracle dice even from a non standard source if your not a wholey soritas army however they can still carry out acts of faith if they had access to them some way.

This can be done In 2 ways

1) use a battle sanctum which does not have the AoF rule so is not subject to its limitation (the Aof rule is not army wide its unit specific. [but in practice noone can place on a real board as its too big for gw terrain rules)]

2) use cherub dice as their not miracle dice their cherub dice.

When you use a cherub dice to perform an a
AoF it counts as useing a miracle dice and therefore counts as your AoF that turn because nothing says it doesn't. That's the raw anything else is wilfully misleading and I've never heard anyone raise it.

I don't see the need for clarification here

The only thing that would be nice was if they cleaned up taddeus or got rid of him like daedalosus

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2021/07/17 21:15:22


 
   
Made in us
Confessor Of Sins




U02dah4 wrote:
Well the ret squad thing 2 is raw

I get that some people fath with it and confirmation would be nice but even goonhammer have changed their tune and there seems concensus amongst the TOs in this area at least.

As to the second

Models with the AoF rule don't generate miracle dice even from a non standard source if your not a wholey soritas army however they can still carry out acts of faith if they had access to them some way.

This can be done In 2 ways

1) use a battle sanctum which does not have the AoF rule so is not subject to its limitation (the Aof rule is not army wide its unit specific. [but in practice noone can place on a real board as its too big for gw terrain rules)]

2) use cherub dice as their not miracle dice their cherub dice.

When you use a cherub dice to perform an a
AoF it counts as useing a miracle dice and therefore counts as your AoF that turn because nothing says it doesn't. That's the raw anything else is wilfully misleading and I've never heard anyone raise it.

I don't see the need for clarification here

The only thing that would be nice was if they cleaned up taddeus or got rid of him like daedalosus


Thank you for rehashing the exact same discussion points that have already been brought up in every version of this discussion. It's just as useless as they've been up to this point, but hey; At least you put in the effort.

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Made in us
Sister Oh-So Repentia



Illinois

ERJAK wrote:
Thank you for rehashing the exact same discussion points that have already been brought up in every version of this discussion. It's just as useless as they've been up to this point, but hey; At least you put in the effort.

Rude. We didn't get these questions answered in the FAQ, he offered an interpretation. As far as I can find it hasn't been discussed here yet, which makes it useful conversation in a tactics thread.

2k poorly optimized Necrons.
1k poorly assembled Sisters.

DR:90S++G+MB--I+Pw40k16#+D++A+/aWD-R++T(T)DM+
 
   
Made in ca
Dour Wolf Priest with Iron Wolf Amulet






Canada

Archebius wrote:
ERJAK wrote:
Thank you for rehashing the exact same discussion points that have already been brought up in every version of this discussion. It's just as useless as they've been up to this point, but hey; At least you put in the effort.

Rude. We didn't get these questions answered in the FAQ, he offered an interpretation. As far as I can find it hasn't been discussed here yet, which makes it useful conversation in a tactics thread.

That's just ERJAK for you.

   
Made in us
Confessor Of Sins




Tacoma, WA, USA

Our missing AS models go on preorder on Saturday 7/31. Probably not a big deal since they are not very good in the competitive sphere. Still, they will make good painting projects.
   
Made in us
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain






A Protoss colony world

Our tanks really feel bad after seeing how absurdly good the Ork vehicles are for their price point. Especially that Kill Rig.

My armies (re-counted and updated on 9/25/20, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~16000 | Space Marines (Blood Ravens and others): ~900 | Space Wolves: ~3800
Astra Militarum: ~800 | Officio Assassinorum: ~600 | Imperial Knights: ~1300 | Sisters of Battle: ~1900
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Total models painted in 2020: 47 | Total models painted in 2021: 87 | Current main painting project: Sisters of Battle
 Mr_Rose wrote:
Who doesn’t love crazy mutant squawk-puppies? Eh? Nobody, that’s who.
 
   
Made in ca
Missionary On A Mission






Lammia wrote:
It didn't even add the /model to the MM...


On the points page?

Is that a point of contention for some people?

   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor





St. Louis, Missouri USA

ERJAK wrote:
There are also some people who still claim argent shroud don't get to move and advance and shoot with no penalty out of transports, but that's mostly because almost every tournament player does disembark wrong.
How are people disembarking wrong in tourneys?

 
   
Made in au
Repentia Mistress




 Captain Joystick wrote:
Lammia wrote:
It didn't even add the /model to the MM...


On the points page?

Is that a point of contention for some people?
No. It's just my guess as to what caused the mistake in the first place...

   
Made in us
Confessor Of Sins




 deviantduck wrote:
ERJAK wrote:
There are also some people who still claim argent shroud don't get to move and advance and shoot with no penalty out of transports, but that's mostly because almost every tournament player does disembark wrong.
How are people disembarking wrong in tourneys?


When you disembark you get out 3" and then move 6". Most people just jump out 9" and as a result people think that a 'disembark' move is a thing.

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Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





 ZergSmasher wrote:
Our tanks really feel bad after seeing how absurdly good the Ork vehicles are for their price point. Especially that Kill Rig.


it seems there's a "rhino hull tax"

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in us
Sword-Bearing Inquisitorial Crusader




TX, US

Yea and they don’t even get Self Repair anymore

 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





Beaverton OR

Hey there folks!

So, as I am one of those poor masochistic fools who try to have a ton of smaller armies instead of one big army, I've starting thinking about getting a 1k(ish) Sisters of Battle force together.

Mostly: I love the look of the models, the super-over-the-top gothic thing, the flamers and meltas...

That being said: what would you folks say would be your MUST include for a small force (around 1k ish) of sisters?

Thanks in advance!
   
Made in ca
Preacher of the Emperor




Claremont, ON

Model wise must includes for me are basic sisters, repentia, exorcist, mortifiers and celestine.

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