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2022/04/21 13:44:19
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
gungo wrote: Speedmob is the only ork list left that’s mildly competitive…but the options are more limited.
I mean ap-2 koptas that are ap-3 for 2 turns.with drive by Dakka and crashing through are still great.. not every kopta needs to be ap-3 and ap-4 for 2 turns.
scrapjets are similar and still great…
Wazboms are still great…
Warboss on bikes are still great…
The only issue is that warbikers shooting sucks even during a speedwaaagh… (-1ap) but they always sucked at shooting.. I mean squigbuggies are dead now and Dakkajets have a more limited target pool with power armor change.
beg to differ on the speedwaagh being the only option, its probably our most commonly used one and what people are used to as it resembles what worked before. I think its outclassed by the mortal wound spam list now. I think there may be a place for a killrig getting booted for trukkboyz and some komandoes but i am still working on it.
I dont see the wurrboy being efficient when we have kill rigs. the same abilities cant be cast at twice anyway. The wurrboy is also too slow to get in to range as the wurrboys spells are very short ranged.
The killrigs still work though.
2022/04/21 14:22:27
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
G00fySmiley wrote: wurrboy is basically just a 70 point smite that fits the rest of the build. its not my set in stone list yet so he is not necessarily a must take. He does seem to be doing work, his eye when it hits is nice, str 6 ap-3 damage D3 only gets a couple hits a game but can whittle something down or help chip down a screening unit. coupled with those reasonably reliable smites and he earns back his points while often making it to the end of the game alive.
I would probably just use a normal weirdboy with fist of gork and warpath if smite was the only thing you wanted from him then. At least those 2 spells are good buffs.
2022/04/27 05:13:31
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
If boyz went to 6ppm (which they wont this edition) they would have to reduce grots to 2 models per 5 points spend, and i also highly doubt that will happen.
GW is doing everything they can to prevent factions from being too horde esque, which is why when our grots are 5ppm now, we still arent incentivised to spam them with +1 to your attrition roll and a pitiful leadership of 4.
GW does not want us to spam too hard, so boyz at 6ppm wont happen. i highly doubt they even go to 7 ppm without changes to grots either. And that i doubt will happen. because you would see an absolute sea of grots if they went to 2 models at 5ppm.
2022/04/27 12:24:26
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Beardedragon wrote: If boyz went to 6ppm (which they wont this edition) they would have to reduce grots to 2 models per 5 points spend, and i also highly doubt that will happen.
GW is doing everything they can to prevent factions from being too horde esque, which is why when our grots are 5ppm now, we still arent incentivised to spam them with +1 to your attrition roll and a pitiful leadership of 4.
GW does not want us to spam too hard, so boyz at 6ppm wont happen. i highly doubt they even go to 7 ppm without changes to grots either. And that i doubt will happen. because you would see an absolute sea of grots if they went to 2 models at 5ppm.
Boyz at 9ppm are fine, so are gretchins at 5ppm considering the points costs of the units from all the factions in 9th. They just need better rules/stats, not to be cheaper. They're both already among the cheapest troops in the game.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Tomsug wrote: Dark synergy rised up from deepest deeps of the internet:
Attack out of da Sun is used on the end of the turn. So you can use it MULTIPLE TIMES PER TURN! So you can have 3x6 Koptas disappear on the end.
Because rules for strategems EXPLICITELY EXCLUDE the End of the Turn strategems from the limitation “once per phase”
That sounds more like a loophole/mistake than an intended mechanics. I don't think it'll last.
Talking purely out of 9th edition, I highly doubt we get better boyz with different rules added as that happens rarely. Whats most likely to happen are point reductions, and i dont see GW cutting Boyz any slacks there either. so i really have no hope for boyz atm.
On a different note since i dont really use Squighog boyz that often; Goffs dont increase the jaw attacks strength do they? As they are a fixed value? And the consensus on straight out of da sun" is that we can use it in the same turn we appeared? So arrive turn 2, shoot, do what ever, and fly out?
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2022/04/27 12:54:10
2022/04/27 18:17:51
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Beardedragon wrote: If boyz went to 6ppm (which they wont this edition) they would have to reduce grots to 2 models per 5 points spend, and i also highly doubt that will happen.
GW is doing everything they can to prevent factions from being too horde esque, which is why when our grots are 5ppm now, we still arent incentivised to spam them with +1 to your attrition roll and a pitiful leadership of 4.
GW does not want us to spam too hard, so boyz at 6ppm wont happen. i highly doubt they even go to 7 ppm without changes to grots either. And that i doubt will happen. because you would see an absolute sea of grots if they went to 2 models at 5ppm.
If that's the case then why do other armies have access to models at that points base?
For example Kroot are 6ppm. And I would argue this cheapness, coupled with the pre-game move and standard Move of 7" makes them far better than ork boyz.
Ultimately in this edition you want your troops to be cheap, to move up and to sit on objectives, that's by and large what most factions troops do. In some cases like Skitari rangers/vanguard they can even stack a few synergies and do some damage output as well but basically they are in your list to give you some chaff to play the mission and you can then add damage dealers or durability to taste with the rest of your points. TBH I'd take a reduction back to T4 if it meant 6 ppm any day of the week and twice on Sundays.
And as somebody else already said if Boyz are going to be 9 ppm then they need to actually do something in game to justify that. Compare an ork boy at 9 ppm to practically anything else at that price base which has even the most basic of guns and its zero comparison, Boyz are slow, hit like wet noodles now into AoC, and are wearing a t shirt so have zero durability. The T5 thing would have been nice in a bolter melta but we aren't in a bolter meta. T5 is largely irrelevant.
What box does an ork boy at 9ppm tick realistically?
Because spamming a horde army of kroot wont win you the game, but orks have been notorious for working as a horde faction. Our damage and amount of attacks are quite decent if we can have enough models survive. In previous edition as Goffs, you could get up to like 6 attacks per model with ghaz, being above 20 models and a weirdboy.
And mind you there has been armies out there in the previous edition with up to 200 grots. GW was not interested in that in this edition so they made sure we wouldnt do that again. they even removed Obsec from our Grots. GW gave us better.. "better" defence by getting toughness 5 (but smashed the KFF and morale phase so i guess.. nothing changed) and in their mind that gave us more quality survival than we had before. but when all is added up we didnt become more duable at all. by making us 9ppm rather than 8 we couldnt horde quite as hard as before. mob rule change also made that quite a thing and the auto pass morale stratagem costing 2 CP now also means theres little incentive in even hording boyz.
An army of 2000 points of kroot wont win against 2000 points of ork boyz.
I dont think i can even recall any horde armies doing actually well competitively atm.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/04/27 18:21:05
2022/04/27 19:03:28
Subject: Re:Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
I don’t get GW’s aversion to hordes though, 120 boyz is eleven boxes of boyz, that’s a solid chunk of profits especially factoring in paints.
I think, and i mean only think, that it might be related to the time it takes to play over 200 grots? I mean, the general game is 2000 points at tournaments, and if you can put down an army that cant be played within the time frame of 3 hours, with their own set of 2000 points, that might set a bad example.
So maybe thats why they are cutting down on horde armies from growing too large in size. I mean sure some might be able to throw 200 grots around with extra models next to it, but a lot would struggle.
And then theres the issue of having 200 models that are all obsec. It stops incentivizes you from actually playing and just sitting on objectives, which is why i think Grots dont have Obsec.
Which is complete and utter bollocks considering the new missions have a decent junk of maps requiring units to be Obsec to gain benefits, like placing bombs or being able to move off the objective while still holding it. Nice going GW.
I swear to god, no troop choice should ever NOT have Obsec no matter what GWs reasoning is.The whole point of grots is to do actions, the whole point of boyz is to hit things. Why would i waste my Obsec boyz putting demolition charges. Thats grots work. yet here we are and grots arent even Obsec so.. yea
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/04/27 19:05:13
2022/05/01 10:51:51
Subject: Re:Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
A little read if anyone wants to read it, but i went to a local tournament with 20 players where i ranked 8th. It was a single day tournament so only 3 battles. I had 2 wins and 1 loss. I lost my first battle to Salemanders, but i won against blood angels, and again against an odd Eldar list with lots of wraith constructs. He lost all his battles so i guess it wasnt a competitive list. But one thing that was apparent between the two battles i won, i didnt win by a lot. It was not a landslide victory at all in any of the cases. The winner was Tyranids (what a fething surprise).
Anyway i went with Goffs and i brought 2 blitza bommers against the armor of contempt lists i would inevitably play against (turns out 12 out of the lists were armor of contempt lists)
Blitza-bommer [8 PL, 150pts]: Big Shoota, 2x Boom Bomb, 2x Supa Shoota
++ Total: [110 PL, 8CP, 2,000pts] ++
Army play through below which ill try and keep short. Game 1, loss
Spoiler:
Salemanders. I cant remember what secondaries i picked but i know i picked "to the last" on my two blitzas and ghaz. I was almost wiped by turn 3 so i couldnt keep my things alive except for a single blitza. but i made a big blunder and had ghaz and my warboss on warbike basically trapped by accident near terrain. So that kind of sucked. He had no vehicles so my rockets were kind of ineffective while shooting at infantry in cover. My blitza bommers did a decent amount of mortal wounds but sadly some of them got ressurrected and others healed. So thats that. In the end, many of my attacks against these salemanders completely wiffed and did jack all damage. So it was a sort of disappointing battle where i made a big mistake, but even then my units did almost no damage.
Game 2, win
Spoiler:
Blood Angels. I decided to go for "to the last" again with my blitzas and ghaz being the survivors. He had turn 1, and i popped my KFF which helped protecting my blitzas so that only 1 plane died (next to stormboyz and other things). The other plane was left with 5 wounds. From there on i just flew over him, bombed him and flew out the stage and stayed off till turn 5 where i could safely return. A funny thing happened though, his librarian made a peril for 1 damage, and my plane flew over and did 3 mortal wounds to him, killing him afterwards. absolute gold moment.
Anyway, i went for a round 1 waaagh so ghaz absolutely went to town as he hadnt damaged ghaz by this time. He ran in to the first line of intercessors (i think they are called. their troop choice guys) and my warboss on bike killed a tank with a dozerblade in the front that shoots with str 10 i believe. my stormboyz and kommandos went in, tied up things and did reasonable damage this time around. Later ghaz ripped apart 6 Terminators out of 10 so there was only 1 left (kopta rokkits killed 1, kommandos 1, and bombs 1) and he ran away to morale. That turned the game around from being what looked a bit dicy to a game i could win because ghaz had free reign. Sadly i had few models left also so i kind of had to sit and tank some shots while holding objectives. My backline was held by 10 grots, by turn 5 i had a single grot left holding my objective. That guy definitely deserved to be promoted.
Game 3, win
Spoiler:
Eldar Wraith construct army with a wraith knight. I knew he had eldritch storm and i know it can be an absolute destroyer to my army, so i said zog it, ill deepstrike all my stormboyz and deffkoptas. I deployed ghaz extra aggressive up by the line, with the warboss on warbike close behind after. We played one of the stages where theres only 18 inches between us, so it could pay off to get a turn 1 charge.
I ended up getting turn 1, so my bomber planes flew over, bombed and out. Ghaz called a waaagh and i decided to go balls to the walls with almost no models on the board, but him, biker boss and 20 kommandos made it in. Both the warboss on bike and ghaz charged the wraith Knight and once again, did jack all damage. I did a total of 13 damage to him because he could auto save and i whiffed my attacks. So that was disheartening. My kommandos attacked one of the large wraith lords i think they are called but failed to kill it, and my other kommandos removed a good potion of the tiny constructs with axes. I think i killed 7 out of 10 or something so that was okay.
By his turn 1, both my warboss on bike and ghaz had died, but the rest of my army came in close after. So now he had to deal with my stormboyz and deffkoptas coming in and that turned things around again. Both blitza bommers came back turn 2, landed and didnt move. flew over turn 3 again and bombed, and stayed on the battlefield to shoot afterwards.
It was a chaotic battle but i werent eldritch stormed at least. And it was very underwhelming how little damage i did to the wraith knight, but thats what happens. especially when you can just auto pass 2 saves apparently. The eldar mortal wounds are pretty brutal however. Basically all his models were toughness 6 and up (barring the 2 characters and a unit of warlocks) so i whittled his army down with rokkits and a flurry of smaller attacks which eventually did work. This was a very fun match.
Over all the armor of contemt changes definitely be felt. They are very mean. I mean i have 2 victories but none of them were landslide victories, i won with maybe 20 point difference max. Scoring secondaries is difficult with my army and the lack of obsec also hurt during the last mission i played versus eldar. Because one could move away from the objective if you held it with an Obsec unit, and even grots not being Obsec anymore is also really stupid. I took fly boyz on both planes to add survivability, but ill change one of those to "orrible gitz" in the future for my grots.
I should have won a lot harder versus eldar but ghaz and boss on bike with BBK and killa klaw just.. whiffed. so his wraith knight ran around and caused havoc all game. I never got it killed as i focused on everything else.
The blitza bommers were both good and bad. It sucks that one can just ressurect models ive killed with my bombs from apothecaries, but they did do really well in terms of "to the last". A secondary ive otherwise never really played. Because i dont need to keep on the board to do my damage as i have bombs. So you just fly over and bomb round 1 and fly out, come back round 2 in your backline, fly over round 3 and bomb and fly out and stay out till turn 5 after which you land somewhere hopefully safe.
But i dont know if this is a good or a bad army. all in all about the blitza bommers i feel like what they brought to the table was attack magnets that forces the enemy to come close because they WANT to kill them. and with a 5++ from the KFF and -1 to hit it takes a decent amount of dakka to down them by turn 1 which they more or less have to do. The firepower drawn to those is also firepower not drawn to my kommandos and stormboyz. Ill have to play some more with them. But i did end up with an 8th out of 20 so ill take it. Worth nothing of course if you KNOW the blitzas will die to enemy fire by turn 1, dont go for "to the last" lol
In the end, orks feel like they have really been hit. Maybe mega nobz really is what we need. I couldnt throw down several kill rigs and stormboyz and kommandos is what i have a decent amount of. I only have 8 mega nobz sadly.
I think that speed waaaghs still work, i just havent painted my speedwaaagh yet. But Ghaz feels even more important than the beastboss on squig now due to his high AP and damage. I really like ghaz these days with all the changes. He still feels overpriced though.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2022/05/01 10:59:27
2022/05/01 14:56:00
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
some bloke wrote: Had my first game with the "new" ork codex (I don't get to game as much these days...). Orks won, but sadly that was because my opponent used Orks!
I ran an old fashioned army, which was probably the issue. Bad moons shoota boys with rokkits & kombi rokkits in 2 battlewagons and a truk, lootas in a trukk with a SAG, and a wazbom blastajet.
Next time I'm going to run a speedwaaagh!, because bad moons seems to combine with the speedwaaagh and the vehicle/biker units very well - better heavy & dakka weapons, and better AP when firing them, and then more better AP when firing them from the speedwaagh, plus more shots. I'm trying to pick out some buggies to build, what works well? I used to play deffskulls but I feel like a change this edition, and bad moons piqued my interest for their shooting prowess.
Also, how do trukkboys work? I noticed that Trukks can transport >clan< infantry, and so would be bad moons, and trukkboys replace their >clan< with >trukkboys<, so it looks, unless I've missed something, like trukkboys can't actually ride in their trukk?
if you meant better AP for embarked infantry then no they dont get the extra AP.
I think that was the concensus at least.
2022/05/02 19:34:49
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Tomsug wrote: And Marschal Petersson write a report about his mighty Blood Axe victories. Because as I understand. That is not the first one: For our fellow warbosses taking to tournament tables, I just finished 3rd at a six round tournament GT, so here is a bit on how things went! Round one: Aeldari (wraith heavy) W Two: nurgle (morty, great unclean one, be’lakor with daemon engines and demon troops) W Three: Tyranids (kraken, he ended up winning the event undefeated) L Four: Aeldari (shuriken based, tons of bodies and ranged death) W Five: Tyranids (lots of warriors, and meta stuff you may expect) W Six: Custodes (vehicle heavy emperors chosen) W
Most importantly the tournament scene continues to impress me with how enjoyable it is and how great all of my opponents were. It was super fun and I greatly enjoyed the time with everyone. (Even While watching my Orks being eaten by Matt Evans Tyranids lol)
The idea of the army was flexibility with a lean towards mortal wounds. With the exception of troops choices and snikrot every single model handed out mortal wounds. Here are thoughts:
With blood axes Orks actually work. Our over costed strats are more palatable when you have 19 command points over the course of the battle to use. They give great strats to boost combat ability, perform actions, interrupt combat for free, and make the army much more strategic. Not to mention snikrot basically gives you a second warboss in the detatchment.
I am convinced squig bombs are the best aspect of the entire ork codex. When taken en mass you are able to efficiently assassinate any character or big threat. Don’t like that apothecary? Bomb him. Two wound warlock giving you headaches? Squigs don’t care about look out sir. Added in with the splash mortals from squiggly curse, frazzle, “burn em all”, and burna bombs, any character with less than 10 wounds is easily killed.
Kommandos are spectacular and are the backbone of an ork army that boys wished they were. They do everything great, and 12 points per model is still a deal since they don’t need a transport to operate.
Tankbustas. By far the most underrated unit in the codex. For just 95 points you get 4D3+D6 mortal wounds of output. (2D3+6) if they don’t charge a vehicle. The rokkits are just for decoration but are funny if they ever hit. Especially in the current meta these guys wreak face.
Burna bomber: cheap mortals and a nuisance unit, it’s good but I think I’ll swap it out going forward. Needs just a bit more of a push to make its points back.
Battlewagon: they are neat, keep ‘em cheap with a deff rolla and watch your Orks not be shot directly for a turn.
I’d love to hear your thoughts, happy krumping!
Interesting list. Reminds me of my own list where i ran 2 blitza bommers. While mine was a Goff list with ghaz, i definitely figured blitza bommers would make a semi comeback with the current meta and changes. I had 2 wons and 1 loss out of my local tournament with 3 battles total.
Mortal wounds really is king now. Maybe I should look at a blood axes army myself.
Although he can never use the stratagem to allow kommandos to fight before the enemy with most WTC terrain. It states you have to be wholly within the terrain piece, and most WTC terrain is made up by thin walls with usually no floor level. So your kommandos would in many GT cases, never be able to use this stratagem, as your base would merely touch the wall, not be wholly within.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2022/05/03 07:48:20
2022/05/03 08:07:36
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Dr.Duck wrote: "For just 95 points you get 4D3+D6 mortal wounds of output. (2D3+6) if they don’t charge a vehicle"
Is this a typo? bustas get 2 squigs each getting D3D +1D6 for the tank hammer. Where is the other 2D3 coming from? Just wondering if Im missing something
Also are you able to big boss more than once?
I think he might be refering to the tankbusta bomb strat? thats 2D3 MW to a vehicle.
But that stratagem, contrary to what many might think, isnt native to only tankbustas despite called "Tankbusta bomb". Boyz and Kommandos can also do this as they share the keyword.
Also yes you can "Big Boss" Twice, as well as you can pay for 2 relics.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Jidmah wrote: To live to see the day that someone wins with bombsquig spam
So this means bomb squigs will go up to 15 points with the next "balance" patch?
Im expecting many nerfs yes. We cant have orks get within top 5! im expecting point increases to everything we have that can cause mortal wounds. be it blitza bommers or wurrboyz. GW needs to deal with this green menace!
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2022/05/03 08:17:33
2022/05/05 06:44:24
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Nachmund already coming to an end? i Have barely had any games with the Nachmund rules.
There needs to be serious changes to the detatchment CP sink if we are to start with half. Most ork armies have 2 detatchments to allow for 2 warbosses. But in general, i dont hope they just feth up the ork army even further. I hope with nihilus or what ever its called the new zone, that they make changes that still incorporates all the factions so that they work. So one faction isnt just shafted because they didnt bother making it work.
And for us, we tend to get hit hard by it. As an ork player, because of that, i tend to fear when GW makes changes. Despite the fact we're a mid tier faction if not a tad below that, we're still not receiving any helping hands.
I really fear these new changes, but i also find them intriguing as it does freshen up the game and changes things. Hopefully it will be good for us rather than a turd served on a plate.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/05/05 06:57:36
2022/05/06 05:15:53
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Pickled_egg wrote: Inspired by the apparent success of the bomb squig / mortal wound spam lists.
I am taking something similar to GT Birmingham in a few weeks.
As I haven't tested this list and I'm a confused old boomer hoping somebody can help me out with a couple of rules questions.
1. Do bomb squigs ignore Look out sir? 2. Do bomb squigs ignore Line of sight?
Finally do you think I can use markers rather than bomb squigs (in case mine don't arrive from e-bay) they aren't models in the strictest sense are they, they just indicate how many squigs the unit has left to fire.
1) They ignore look out sir as they are not a normal "ranged attack". Look out sir only protects against ranged attacks, which squig bombs are not. 2) I could be wrong, but im fairly sure they do not require line of sight. because again, they are not ranged attacks.
To your last question, you dont need any markers at all. The codex states that they simply recommend that you have the bombs as counters. That means you dont need any counters at all if you can remember the amount in your head. hell, put a piece of paper or a die.
On another note, you cant advance and fire the squig unless you have an assault weapon on you since you cant activate shooting otherwise. So kommandos (who uses pistols) would need a model with a burna for that and tankbustas will never be able to and squig riders always can.
Im a little unsure if you, when you are within engagement range, can target a unit outside engagement range with a bomb squig during your shooting phase. I mean you have pistols (IF you have pistols so i guess kommandos and pistol tankbustas only and never squig riders) so you can activate shooting, and its not a ranged attack, so i would assume you can also target units outside engagement range because it doesnt follow the standard shooting rules.
This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2022/05/09 12:34:41
2022/05/11 12:05:54
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Jidmah wrote: If you are in a transport, you can't be within 6" inches of anything.
I know very well, my big mek has died more than once after getting out of his transport for that CP
riiight. thats what i assumed too. I guess ill use the warlord trait just for the ability to kill characters then, while drifting around in a trukk with trukkboyz in it for the +1 to hit.
2022/05/11 17:16:39
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Beardedragon wrote: riiight. thats what i assumed too. I guess ill use the warlord trait just for the ability to kill characters then, while drifting around in a trukk with trukkboyz in it for the +1 to hit.
I run the big mek with opportunist, KMB with kustom job and tellyporta blasta to upgrade a trukkboy trukk into a short ranged super-buggy. At 175 it's not that much more expensive than a kannonwagon either.
I use a Big Mek with tellyport blasta too. But i used da dead shiny shoota instead. Do you find it more beneficial to use the kustom mega blasta and the kustom job? I thought the shoota relic would fare better.
How do you only get a price of 175 points?
Trukk is 70
Trukkboy boyz are 90
The Big Mek is like 95 or something with the tellyport blasta.
You need the trukkboyz to get +1 to hit, unless you just use the Trukk and a big mek without trukkboyz so you hit on 4s?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/05/11 17:20:08
2022/05/12 11:06:24
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
You need the trukkboyz to get +1 to hit, unless you just use the Trukk and a big mek without trukkboyz so you hit on 4s?
Or you can play Freebootas. I love the Shiny Shoota freebootas big mek, even prefer it to the wartrike: I never want a 3rd HQ anyway and I can't give up the bikerboss.
that is true but you wont get the opportunist trait then
2022/05/12 13:40:32
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
LeRufus wrote: Quick question: Can i put Badrukk in a Goff List or Zagstruk into a Freebooter List?
I am not so sure with the new "No Soup" regulations^^
you can include badrukk in a goff detatchment.
But you cant include zagstruk in anything other than a goff detatchment.
Badrukk is a "specialist Ladz" but zagstruk is not.
2022/05/18 06:51:01
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
LeRufus wrote: Quick question: Can i put Badrukk in a Goff List or Zagstruk into a Freebooter List?
I am not so sure with the new "No Soup" regulations^^
you can include badrukk in a goff detatchment.
But you cant include zagstruk in anything other than a goff detatchment.
Badrukk is a "specialist Ladz" but zagstruk is not.
That's not entirely true.
You can put Zagstruk in an army of freebootas, but his detachment would lose their culture.
The anti-soup rule only applies to models which have the actual <CLAN> keyword, but not to units which have a fixed clan like our named characters.
wait what?
As far as i understand, badrukk would not get his own klan in a deathskulls detatchment but the deathskulls would keep theirs.
How is that different when using a non specialist lad? The way i read what you said i get it as zagstrukk too would lose his own kulture but they keep theirs. It sounds just like a normal specialist ladz?
2022/05/18 11:12:55
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Beardedragon wrote: How is that different when using a non specialist lad? The way i read what you said i get it as zagstrukk too would lose his own kulture but they keep theirs. It sounds just like a normal specialist ladz?
You only get a culture if all units in a detachment have the same culture or are specialist ladz.
Zagstrukk + GOFF boyz => GOFF detachment, Goff culture for all
Badrukk + GOFF boyz => GOFF detachment, Goff culture for boyz, no culture for Badrukk
Zagstrukk + FREEBOOTA boyz => ORK detachment, no culture for anyone
Badrukk + trukk boyz => FREEBOOTA detachment, freeboota culture for Badrukk, no culture for trukkboyz
FREEBOOTA warboss + GOFF boyz => illegal detachment in GT2022, tempest of war, ORK detachment in other mission packs.
now thats a really useful way to make people understand it.
thanks. apparently i did not understand it at all
2022/05/24 10:28:43
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
I for one hope they give Hunta/Kill rigs Squig keyword and start updating some of the things in our klan kultures that makes no sense. It was brought up to make beastsnagga models good in snakebites yet their transports, the rigs, dont get any damn bonuses lol. Also squiggoths, normal and gargantuan ones. As well as giving the Kannon wagon, wagon keyword. Simply to clean up some of those things that makes no sense in our faction.
Like being able to advance and not get -1 to hit for evil sunz despite most our weapons that were assault are now dakka weapons...
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/05/24 10:35:43
2022/05/24 13:18:57
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
I for one hope they give Hunta/Kill rigs Squig keyword and start updating some of the things in our klan kultures that makes no sense. It was brought up to make beastsnagga models good in snakebites yet their transports, the rigs, dont get any damn bonuses lol. Also squiggoths, normal and gargantuan ones. As well as giving the Kannon wagon, wagon keyword. Simply to clean up some of those things that makes no sense in our faction.
Like being able to advance and not get -1 to hit for evil sunz despite most our weapons that were assault are now dakka weapons...
It's definitely not a good sign when it feels like we need a codex rewrite/update when its been less than a year since our codex has been out.
yes.
And i just used an experimental list versus thousand sons and death guard. And while i lost both fights (used snakebites in one and deathksulls in another) it just pains me how insanely efficient rubric marines and plague marines are compared to our troop choices despite we paying almost the same amount.
My dedicated close combat boyz, 90 points, couldnt even dent those rubric marines at 105 points. And while they have terrible melee stats, we have terrible defence stats, so any wound is a dead boy.
How can i pay 9 points for a model that can only do melee, yet cant even win in melee? It seems like orks have to play flawless battles to win these days against armor of contempt, at least versus thousand sons and maybe death guard.
2022/05/26 20:21:12
Subject: Re:Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Jidmah wrote: I think it's rather clear that the competitive players giving advice to GW have nerfed orks to exactly where they want them.
If that was true it would be a shame to do that ! And i would be shocked :x
i wouldnt. it has happened before. Any time something marginally good happens for orks it has to be removed instantly. Just look at how fast we were destroyed after our codex dropped compared to something like Admech or Drukhari.
2022/06/06 11:56:49
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Forceride wrote:It will also curb armies that have super turns by dumping mass CP. So our stuff won't pop as easily.
Snip
The last bit is my prediction, a bit grain of salt, but i believe the biggest winners will be armies with abilities backed in that do not need CP, i hear Ultramarines have tons of that but i know nothing of the hummies.
This is definitely going to be the case. On one side we won't be getting wombo-comboed any more, but on the other side the armies that don't need to combo will get way stronger.
Beardedragon wrote:Right. So i went to a team GT with a goff pressure list.
Needless to say, i wont be doing that again any time soon. Yikes.
Got my ass handed to me.
What was your list? And what were your match ups like?
Ill be putting the list and match ups in spoilers below. My list was:
Spoiler:
Goff. Warboss on warbike, BBK and da killa klaw Ghaz, warlord Makari 10x Grots with orrible gits 3x 10 Kommandos w powerklaw. 2 bomb squigs. 3x 10 Stormboyz 3x 3 Deffkoptas 2x 4 Squig riders, 2 bomb squigs Battlewagon, barebone for transporting and making ghaz survive a bit longer.
Play through:
Spoiler:
The first battle was against a new dude who had his tyranid codex for 1 week. I got a 20-0 so sure. not much to say really. Next battle was against a DG drone heavy + FW drone heavy list so many vehicles. I won and i wont know if i would have won in general, because he was ill so i won automatically without playing that battle.
But the next 3 battles is where it became more interesting.
Battle 3 was against Drukhari with a less focus on infantry running out to kill me and a bigger focus on driving around some shooty elves in the raiders as well as some shooty raiders/ravagers. I lost that one pretty hard, 0-20. The 2x2 Cronos units were.. absolutely brutal and the shooting was enough to put 20 kommandos and 15 stormboyz out of commision. To my mistake i didnt put my army enough out of line of sight because he said he barely had any shooting (which clearly was a lie looking at what happened).
Battle 4 was against Genestealer cults and i have never fought against them before. I think i could have won if i knew what i was doing, but a close combat oriented army going up against genestealers without fully understanding their mechanics wont be pretty. Also ghaz and warboss on warbike did almost nothing to those terminator ish genestealers with hammers with their -1 damage, 5++ and 5+++. So that kind of sucked. 0-20 loss.
Battle 5 was against one of the best players in my country and a person ive played a few times before (i sucked but my team got a 5th out of 10th regardless). He played a meta tyranid army with harpies.. and well i knew i would lose and i could soften the blow by being defensive and going for maybe banners but i still attempted to go for a win, which didnt work. 2x harpies, flying tyrant, foot slogging tyrant, malaceptor, exocrine etc. another 0-20.
All in all i dont feel like i HAD to lose against drukhari nor genestealer cults. I think i could have won. Knowledge wins many battles, and i have only fought drukhari once, and genestealers zero times, so i had very little knowledge against those two. And Tyranids, well the only time ive fought against the new codex was the opening battle that day against the new player i tabled. But i feel like my list lacks units that i can find acceptable to lose. I had kind of told my self that trukk boy mega nobz wouldnt be too good, because it was easy to shut down the trukk and make them kultureless and footslogging, and even afterwards they have too many misses by hitting on 4s, but maybe trukkboy MANZ are still good i dont know. I feel generally that tyranids pay around 30% too little for their units, and i pay 30% too much for mine. Like in the tyranid match up, there were 10 hormagaunts, 5 or so genestealers, and 2x 10 gargoyles + 3 warriors. This was not difficult to remove but it was standing in the way, forcing me to go through them, just to be counter charged afterwards. While i killed the first genestealers turn 1, i had to move up to get to his frontline turn 2, which gave him 1 turn of destroying my units before getting there. And after i had chewed through that frontline with me charging most of it (failing to kill the warriors with what little i had left of the first initial charge), i was killed in return by the monsters just charging from the backline or psychic powers or shot off the table. Unlike tyranids, i dont feel like we have a codex where we can send in chaff, and then come with heavy hitters like monster bugs. I feel like if i had had 40 extra beast snagga boyz then maybe this would seem like a fair battle but alas.
The one unit i do feel like pulled their weight when i didnt get them killed by not being obscurred by shooting or what, was my squig riders. They did well. 4 of them with +1 to wound took down a malaceptor so that was neat. However, i rolled mostly 2s on the bomb squigs in general so i didnt really get anything out of them as they constantly missed. I think out of all the 4 games i played, i threw maybe 9 squig bombs, and 6 of those were 2+.
And while Deffkoptas in a speedfreeks army is really invaluable, and ive had decent success with them in this match up as well, i feel like, if you get hit by -1 to hit (and there was a lot of that), then hitting on those 6s with rokkits essentially results in me getting 1-2 hits out of every volley from each unit, which tended to result in no damage at all. And we used WTC styled terrain i believe, so we had a lot of dense terrain (more than i recall from my last tournament).
The deffkoptas when i use it in a goff style tends to die the turn after they are deployed (they always started in deepstrike), and a leadership of 6 on both those and squig riders should honestly be considered some kind of mistake. Would it really kill GW to give squig riders leadership 7 and the same for deffkoptas? I mean you DO pay 50 points per deffkopta. How many other armies lose 100 points to morale? We do by rolling a 6 and 1 because 1 deffkopta died.. Ghaz, while being great at my single player GT last time, didnt really do much this time around. In fact, it sounds stupid but my warboss on warbike was also kind of out played. Both him and ghaz had a hard time finding proper targets due to the amount of terrain on the table. It was easy for my opponents to just block off entrances, and everytime i cracked open one entrance and awaited my boss on bike or ghaz to enter my turn after, another unit had just taken the place of the dead ones before.
The over all problem with my list was that being goffs, i had a focus on kill games, and my enemy, whether they had a decent focus on CC or not, still had plenty of shooting to force me to come to him. that tended to give him around 2 rounds of shooting which my list just cant take.
I am fully open for suggestions to making a better Goff pressure list because i seem to be a bit out of ideas. WHAT exactly encompasses a good goff pressure list? Whats the best one currently meta wise? Because i feel like im leaning towards the speed freeks kind of play style here.
This message was edited 8 times. Last update was at 2022/06/06 16:33:46
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