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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




NE Ohio, USA

 vipoid wrote:
 dreadblade wrote:
I think GW knows that the gradual release of codexes encourages people to buy new armies. Once the excitement of getting a new codex for your existing army has passed, new releases start to look tempting.


If they want people to start new armies, why would they insist on having ~£25 barriers to entry for every army?

Surely it would make far more sense to make the rules for all armies free, meaning any player's first purchase for an army would be models?


Clearly GW doesn't agree with you on giving away the rules for free. And it seems to be working for them, so I'm inclined to think they know how to run their business better than you do.
   
Made in es
[DCM]
Secret Inquisitorial Eldar Xenexecutor






your mind

Sunno wrote:
Iv been looking into 40K as an alternative side game to play. I love the setting, lore and models but iv never played it beyond some silly games at friends house. My observations are:

40K on the tabletop is very simple to play. It’s the literal embodiment of a beer and pretzels game that enables you to use your great models to create a cinematic story/engagement. And the game should be respected for how well it does that

• Much of the complexity is driven by GW now catering to the so called competitive crowed. Its laughable that people consider that 40K is a competitive game given how simple full of holes the on table rues are compared to other games in the market. It really is people trying to bang a square peg into a round hole. My message to 40K is not to try and go down the full competitive route and use that as your primary driver, you will ruin your community.

• Most of the complexity in the 40K comes BEFORE the models hit the table. Rules needlessly spread across various books, campaign supplements, FAQs and cards. IMO this is a design feature by GW to increase sales in the same way Apple build redundancy into its products to ensure a market for the next Apple product.

• The fact that GW hasn’t release an all in one app that does all rule, cards, aids and scenarios in the same way Malifaux, WM/H, Infinity and other have amazes me. But that would reduce their ability to plan obsolescence into their books etc


Strong 177th post. Exalted.

   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

ccs wrote:
Clearly GW doesn't agree with you on giving away the rules for free. And it seems to be working for them, so I'm inclined to think they know how to run their business better than you do.
That almost seems like circular logic: GW sells rules, and because people are buying them GW sells rules, and because people are buying them GW sells rules...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/21 19:17:15


Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in us
Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter







ccs wrote:
...Clearly GW doesn't agree with you on giving away the rules for free. And it seems to be working for them, so I'm inclined to think they know how to run their business better than you do.


Oh, yeah. Obviously GW's business model is an incredibly fragile house of cards that rests on doing everything exactly the way they are doing it, and every single tiny little decision is integral to the whole thing, and if they changed anything at all that'd cause the whole thing to collapse and them to stop making money.

(I'm sorry for being sarcastic and dismissive here, but this is an incredibly awful argument to make about anything.)

Balanced Game: Noun. A game in which all options and choices are worth using.
Homebrew oldhammer project: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/790996.page#10896267
Meridian: Necromunda-based 40k skirmish: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/795374.page 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





 H.B.M.C. wrote:
ccs wrote:
Clearly GW doesn't agree with you on giving away the rules for free. And it seems to be working for them, so I'm inclined to think they know how to run their business better than you do.
That almost seems like circular logic: GW sells rules, and because people are buying them GW sells rules, and because people are buying them GW sells rules...



I definitely like having a hard copy codex, but also mainly because GW's app is terrible for a casual perusal of rules. If they had free pdf I might still buy the book, but then the problem becomes should they make a product people might not buy?

I have no doubt book sales are a cornerstone for them given the supplement rush already in 9th. They'd be fine without out them, I'm sure, but at the same time you're putting all the cost of the writers into the models and suddenly you could get more pressure to sell models via rules.

People that think there's plenty of room there might be mistaken. GW took its dividend which was 145p to 25p citing freight costs and currency exchange rates.

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




NE Ohio, USA

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
ccs wrote:
Clearly GW doesn't agree with you on giving away the rules for free. And it seems to be working for them, so I'm inclined to think they know how to run their business better than you do.
That almost seems like circular logic: GW sells rules, and because people are buying them GW sells rules, and because people are buying them GW sells rules...


No. The point is that GW knows better than all you armchair CEO geniuses wether or not giving stuff away for free suits its needs/plans.
   
Made in es
[DCM]
Secret Inquisitorial Eldar Xenexecutor






your mind

Maybe they are more optimistic about their target market demographic’s seemingly unbounded capacity to champion their own co dependency. The test of better knowledge is always where the rubber meets the road. I guess, if you are right, you and others who share this opinion make it so.

   
Made in us
Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter







ccs wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
ccs wrote:
Clearly GW doesn't agree with you on giving away the rules for free. And it seems to be working for them, so I'm inclined to think they know how to run their business better than you do.
That almost seems like circular logic: GW sells rules, and because people are buying them GW sells rules, and because people are buying them GW sells rules...


No. The point is that GW knows better than all you armchair CEO geniuses wether or not giving stuff away for free suits its needs/plans.


Or that we understand our needs and we think GW has more of an obligation to serve the needs of the consumer than you seem to, rather than telling anyone who complains "they make more money this way, so shut up and stop complaining."

Balanced Game: Noun. A game in which all options and choices are worth using.
Homebrew oldhammer project: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/790996.page#10896267
Meridian: Necromunda-based 40k skirmish: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/795374.page 
   
Made in gb
Lit By the Flames of Prospero






I think the unit profiles should be available for free, like AoS 1 and to a degree what we see included with the model instructions. Army rules and a more comprehensive set of core rules should be contained to rulebooks which should be for purchase, just not at £30 each.
As for GW having obligations to its consumers, anyone who assumes GW has any obligation whatsoever is lying to themselves. All the company has to do is follow Trading Standards laws and that's it. It is under no obligation to make changes to rules once the rulebooks have been printed. I'm not saying you should be worshipping GW because FAQs get released, I'm just saying not to kid yourself into believing any company has any moral obligation to you in any way.
   
Made in ie
Ruthless Rafkin





ccs wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
ccs wrote:
Clearly GW doesn't agree with you on giving away the rules for free. And it seems to be working for them, so I'm inclined to think they know how to run their business better than you do.
That almost seems like circular logic: GW sells rules, and because people are buying them GW sells rules, and because people are buying them GW sells rules...


No. The point is that GW knows better than all you armchair CEO geniuses wether or not giving stuff away for free suits its needs/plans.


Even for Dakka this is just a plain bad take. Please stop.


 
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

ccs wrote:
No. The point is that GW knows better than all you armchair CEO geniuses wether or not giving stuff away for free suits its needs/plans.
I don't think I've said anything about free rules in this thread, so simmer down son. Who got you so angry?

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in us
Blessed Living Saint




On the Internet

 the_scotsman wrote:
Tyel wrote:
I guess the question for GW would be how to maintain hype and interest if they did a genuine "voila, 9th edition, full batch of codexes, btw your faction is getting but maybe a character model for at least another 3-5 years, have fun."


Ridiculously easy - release the new edition, release the changes you're going to put forth in various armies, and just release new minis as they come with new datasheets. people certainly didnt need a new 'dex to get hyped for the new admech stuff, did they?

And, feth, the rules are there to get you to buy like 500$ of models - just fething give them away for free. it is absolutely buck wild to me that GW is not just charging the same amount for books that they have been, but in fact charging more now. Absolutely crazy.

From what I gather from listening to ex-employees online GW still operates under a business model that requires the books and box department to turn a profit. So all those shiny books? Thats where they make their money. GW would need to stop treating it as a revenue stream for us to get proper rules updates for free.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Gert wrote:
I think the unit profiles should be available for free, like AoS 1 and to a degree what we see included with the model instructions. Army rules and a more comprehensive set of core rules should be contained to rulebooks which should be for purchase, just not at £30 each.
As for GW having obligations to its consumers, anyone who assumes GW has any obligation whatsoever is lying to themselves. All the company has to do is follow Trading Standards laws and that's it. It is under no obligation to make changes to rules once the rulebooks have been printed. I'm not saying you should be worshipping GW because FAQs get released, I'm just saying not to kid yourself into believing any company has any moral obligation to you in any way.

Sadly GW is killing the free AoS warscrolls which is a shame because it was a nice idea to have them available for us to see and get some idea of what it does in a vacuum at least.

I'd be less annoyed if the apps were solid but they're both buggy and far to often wrong at this point in time.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/22 03:59:44


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





ccs wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
ccs wrote:
Clearly GW doesn't agree with you on giving away the rules for free. And it seems to be working for them, so I'm inclined to think they know how to run their business better than you do.
That almost seems like circular logic: GW sells rules, and because people are buying them GW sells rules, and because people are buying them GW sells rules...


No. The point is that GW knows better than all you armchair CEO geniuses wether or not giving stuff away for free suits its needs/plans.



As another has already said we don't really give a fig about what GW wants to do for its own greed, as customers we want our needs seen to. Sure GW sells rules, so people buy rules, we get it. For a company that is supposed to be all about the models thought, wouldn't it be nice if the rules for playing the game were free ? With hard copies sold with the art and all the extra bells and whistles ? I know I'd like that. Which is really what I care about, me and my comrades paying for the product right ? I don't think it takes a super brain to realize companies want all of the money so anything to make all of the money, great idea ! There we go, I've figured out their master plan this whole time.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
ccs wrote:
No. The point is that GW knows better than all you armchair CEO geniuses wether or not giving stuff away for free suits its needs/plans.
I don't think I've said anything about free rules in this thread, so simmer down son. Who got you so angry?


If he doesn't fight for the rights of GW they will take away all of his models and cast him out. He's fighting for his life brother !

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/22 06:14:37


 
   
Made in it
Gargantuan Gargant




Italy

 vipoid wrote:
 dreadblade wrote:
I think GW knows that the gradual release of codexes encourages people to buy new armies. Once the excitement of getting a new codex for your existing army has passed, new releases start to look tempting.


If they want people to start new armies, why would they insist on having ~£25 barriers to entry for every army?

Surely it would make far more sense to make the rules for all armies free, meaning any player's first purchase for an army would be models?


I think starting a new army because a shiny new codex is the last GW release is a terrible thing to do. We all know that armies' qualities are shifting periodically and for most of the players getting 2000ish points of battle ready models takes a significant amount of time. It takes a whole year to me on average as I'm not a really motivated painter, especially if it's something I've never painted before and I would probably have other things to paint from already collected armies or terrain as well which slows the process of making the new army battle ready even more.

People should start new armies ONLY for the models and their lore eventually, and probably they should do it in advance: skip the codex, start collecting and wait for the next codex to start playing. At least that's how I've always done that, first army aside of course. If someone could paint 2000ish points of models in a few weeks starting an army with a codex release makes much more sense.


 
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut




 AnomanderRake wrote:


Or that we understand our needs and we think GW has more of an obligation to serve the needs of the consumer than you seem to, rather than telling anyone who complains "they make more money this way, so shut up and stop complaining."


Sure. I mean obviously Ferrari keeps gives away free gasoline, so we keep buying their cars. Not sure why GW can't see the obvious.
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

Sunny, oh boy... that... I don't even know where to begin on how false that analogy is.

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in ie
Ruthless Rafkin





Sunny Side Up wrote:
 AnomanderRake wrote:


Or that we understand our needs and we think GW has more of an obligation to serve the needs of the consumer than you seem to, rather than telling anyone who complains "they make more money this way, so shut up and stop complaining."


Sure. I mean obviously Ferrari keeps gives away free gasoline, so we keep buying their cars. Not sure why GW can't see the obvious.


When are people going to stop using car and food analogies? They never, ever work.


 
   
Made in us
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord






 Sim-Life wrote:
Sunny Side Up wrote:
 AnomanderRake wrote:


Or that we understand our needs and we think GW has more of an obligation to serve the needs of the consumer than you seem to, rather than telling anyone who complains "they make more money this way, so shut up and stop complaining."


Sure. I mean obviously Ferrari keeps gives away free gasoline, so we keep buying their cars. Not sure why GW can't see the obvious.


When are people going to stop using car and food analogies? They never, ever work.


Because minis are essential purchases just like food apparently...



A GW fan walks into a bar, buys the same drink as yesterday but pays more.

""Unite" is a human word, ... join me or die."

If you break apart my or anyone else's posts line by line I will not read them. 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





UK

 Blackie wrote:
 vipoid wrote:
 dreadblade wrote:
I think GW knows that the gradual release of codexes encourages people to buy new armies. Once the excitement of getting a new codex for your existing army has passed, new releases start to look tempting.


If they want people to start new armies, why would they insist on having ~£25 barriers to entry for every army?

Surely it would make far more sense to make the rules for all armies free, meaning any player's first purchase for an army would be models?


I think starting a new army because a shiny new codex is the last GW release is a terrible thing to do. We all know that armies' qualities are shifting periodically and for most of the players getting 2000ish points of battle ready models takes a significant amount of time. It takes a whole year to me on average as I'm not a really motivated painter, especially if it's something I've never painted before and I would probably have other things to paint from already collected armies or terrain as well which slows the process of making the new army battle ready even more.

People should start new armies ONLY for the models and their lore eventually, and probably they should do it in advance: skip the codex, start collecting and wait for the next codex to start playing. At least that's how I've always done that, first army aside of course. If someone could paint 2000ish points of models in a few weeks starting an army with a codex release makes much more sense.


I just think that GW's gradual release schedule results in separate, focused marketing for each faction - a codex, new models, warhammer community articles etc. I personally buy the codex for models I like first to read the lore and learn about the units before buying the models.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/dreadblade/
Chaos Knights - Ultramarines - Thousand Sons - Grey Knights 
   
Made in nl
Longtime Dakkanaut





Tyel wrote:
I guess the question for GW would be how to maintain hype and interest if they did a genuine "voila, 9th edition, full batch of codexes, btw your faction is getting but maybe a character model for at least another 3-5 years, have fun."
As opposed to 'here is a new edition, your not getting anything for 2 years and then you get a codex with maybe a unit and then nothing else for 3 years'?

Non Space Marine players who play 1 army already get a codex and nothing else every edition. Your proposal would change absolutely nothing for them except allow everyone to compete on an even footing.






Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
ccs wrote:
Clearly GW doesn't agree with you on giving away the rules for free. And it seems to be working for them, so I'm inclined to think they know how to run their business better than you do.
That almost seems like circular logic: GW sells rules, and because people are buying them GW sells rules, and because people are buying them GW sells rules...



I definitely like having a hard copy codex, but also mainly because GW's app is terrible for a casual perusal of rules. If they had free pdf I might still buy the book, but then the problem becomes should they make a product people might not buy?

I have no doubt book sales are a cornerstone for them given the supplement rush already in 9th. They'd be fine without out them, I'm sure, but at the same time you're putting all the cost of the writers into the models and suddenly you could get more pressure to sell models via rules.

People that think there's plenty of room there might be mistaken. GW took its dividend which was 145p to 25p citing freight costs and currency exchange rates.
Which is why you put the rules online for free without background and pretty pictures and then sell hardcore books with background and pretty pictures for those who want them.

Lower barrier of entry into the game/armies but still sell books to the collectors.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/22 10:14:55


 
   
Made in ca
Charing Cold One Knight





 Ordana wrote:
Tyel wrote:
I guess the question for GW would be how to maintain hype and interest if they did a genuine "voila, 9th edition, full batch of codexes, btw your faction is getting but maybe a character model for at least another 3-5 years, have fun."
As opposed to 'here is a new edition, your not getting anything for 2 years and then you get a codex with maybe a unit and then nothing else for 3 years'?

Non Space Marine players who play 1 army already get a codex and nothing else every edition. Your proposal would change absolutely nothing for them except allow everyone to compete on an even footing.





Technically it seems that GW wants to sprinkle some more stuff around with campaign book releases accompanying new models. Sadly it is an annoying format as it is not fun to have dozens upon dozens of outdated campaign books that have minimal content on your shelves.
   
Made in it
Gargantuan Gargant




Italy

 dreadblade wrote:


I just think that GW's gradual release schedule results in separate, focused marketing for each faction - a codex, new models, warhammer community articles etc. I personally buy the codex for models I like first to read the lore and learn about the units before buying the models.


Really? You can find all the lore, detailed reviews and pictures you want for free on the internet, without even relying on piracy.


 
   
Made in dk
Pyro Pilot of a Triach Stalker






Tyel wrote:
I guess the question for GW would be how to maintain hype and interest if they did a genuine "voila, 9th edition, full batch of codexes, btw your faction is getting but maybe a character model for at least another 3-5 years, have fun."

victCodexes don't contain Chapter Tactics and such, they get updated once every 3-5 years (instead of every 1-4 years). victChapter Approved contains Chapter Tactics, Relics, WL traits, Combat Doctrines, Super Doctrines etc. and are released once a year. That solves the issue, GW can increase the price of Chapter Approved as much as they need to in order to get the same profit margins.

Then GW makes these rules balanced enough that you want to try out everything instead of making a super sword relic and a cardboard sword relic which is just a worse version of the former, they can do this because the testing will be thorough and nothing is being made last-minute. The testers have a schedule and checklist for broken things to look out for and it is shared, the final version gets seen by all playtesters before it is released. The rules don't go from one team to the next one at a time until it is churned out on a conveyor belt as things currently seem to be. The rules should be designed together, they are meant to be played together, I don't want to hear the bullcrap excuse of 8th edition codexes being outside reprimand in 9th because they weren't designed for the current rules.

You need about 54 games to try out everything in the codex, 3 games each with 18 lists, enough for one game a week. Then you can play your other armies or you can settle into one list and play it another 30 times to get really good at it, if you play more than 50 games a year that is. Then the next Chapter Approved comes out and you can do it again, new missions, points and rules shaking up the armies you want to try out and of course all the armies you will face.

Not to mention narrative releases which GW can do as much of as they like as there is less pressure to keep up and it's okay if the rules are terrible for pick-up and tournament games and only focus on letting you get nitty-gritty with you and your crusade group's fluffy army histories. How much time could GW have saved if Crusade rules were printed in a separate book instead of on a per-codex basis? AdMech and Drukhari sure didn't need an update half as badly as CSM and Tau still do.

 dreadblade wrote:
I think GW knows that the gradual release of codexes encourages people to buy new armies.

It also encourages people to rage-quit the game, 40k could be much larger than it is if it didn't push away anyone who doesn't want to saddled with a gak army for 5 years or buy a new one.

Sunny Side Up wrote:
Spoiler:
 AnomanderRake wrote:


Or that we understand our needs and we think GW has more of an obligation to serve the needs of the consumer than you seem to, rather than telling anyone who complains "they make more money this way, so shut up and stop complaining."


Sure. I mean obviously Ferrari keeps gives away free gasoline, so we keep buying their cars. Not sure why GW can't see the obvious.

Tesla gives away free software updates for their cars, not that I support GW going the free model, it's 5 years too early for that. People still want books, I just think the content and release schedule should be moved around so people get what they need faster and so that GW can avoid re-printing things that don't need an update as often as they do.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/09/22 10:46:50


 
   
Made in it
Gargantuan Gargant




Italy

 Grimtuff wrote:
 Sim-Life wrote:
Sunny Side Up wrote:
 AnomanderRake wrote:


Or that we understand our needs and we think GW has more of an obligation to serve the needs of the consumer than you seem to, rather than telling anyone who complains "they make more money this way, so shut up and stop complaining."


Sure. I mean obviously Ferrari keeps gives away free gasoline, so we keep buying their cars. Not sure why GW can't see the obvious.


When are people going to stop using car and food analogies? They never, ever work.


Because minis are essential purchases just like food apparently...


Minis are luxury items. The comparison with cars is disingenuous because buying a car doesn't happen very often and most of the times that car is not even a luxury item, just a tool that is much needed for everyday routine. But a food analogy can be ok as long as we're considering "luxury" food/restaurants, not just what people need to avoid starvation.


 
   
Made in ie
Ruthless Rafkin





 vict0988 wrote:

Tesla gives away free software updates for their cars, not that I support GW going the free model, it's 5 years too early for that. People still want books, I just think the content and release schedule should be moved around so people get what they need faster and so that GW can avoid re-printing things that don't need an update as often as they do.


GW could absolutely adopts a free rules model and still sell books. Free digital rules doesn't need to be the entire codex, it just needs to be the army and game rules, fluff and art stay in the physical and since people play 40k for the setting they'd pay for that stuff.

Besides that people buy GWs books regardless of the availability of rules. Currently between Battlescribe and Wahapedia the rules basically ARE free and not at all hard to find and arguably better presented and easier to use than the official channels, yet people still throw money at GWs over-priced tree pulp, so claiming they'd lose money is clearly incorrect.


 
   
Made in us
Grumpy Longbeard





washington state USA

 Sim-Life wrote:
 vict0988 wrote:

Tesla gives away free software updates for their cars, not that I support GW going the free model, it's 5 years too early for that. People still want books, I just think the content and release schedule should be moved around so people get what they need faster and so that GW can avoid re-printing things that don't need an update as often as they do.


GW could absolutely adopts a free rules model and still sell books. Free digital rules doesn't need to be the entire codex, it just needs to be the army and game rules, fluff and art stay in the physical and since people play 40k for the setting they'd pay for that stuff.

Besides that people buy GWs books regardless of the availability of rules. Currently between Battlescribe and Wahapedia the rules basically ARE free and not at all hard to find and arguably better presented and easier to use than the official channels, yet people still throw money at GWs over-priced tree pulp, so claiming they'd lose money is clearly incorrect.


That's true of several other companies.
-the core rules and the army builder for infinity have always been free, but if you want the lore and such with the rules you need to buy a hard copy of the book,
-absolutely everything from DUST is free to download from the core rules to the unit cards to the scenarios, to the army TO&E theme lists. you do not even need to own a hard copy for anything other than convenience.
-WMH rules are also a free download as are all the unit cards.

With some players it seems like buying GW product even when it isn't minis is almost like a religious devotion.



GAMES-DUST1947/infinity/B5 wars/epic 40K/5th ed 40K/victory at sea/warmachine/battle tactics/monpoc/battletech/battlefleet gothic/castles in the sky,/heavy gear 
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






Sunny Side Up wrote:
 AnomanderRake wrote:


Or that we understand our needs and we think GW has more of an obligation to serve the needs of the consumer than you seem to, rather than telling anyone who complains "they make more money this way, so shut up and stop complaining."


Sure. I mean obviously Ferrari keeps gives away free gasoline, so we keep buying their cars. Not sure why GW can't see the obvious.


Do....do you think when you buy a car, the dealership doesn't fill it up with gas and oil and things to make it so you can drive the car right away and make the vroom vroom noises? Because, you know, if you're spending thousands and thousands of dollars on a car, saving the couple hundred by requiring the new owner to I guess tow it to a shop and get transmission fluid and oil and AC fluid and gas put in it would be absolutely asinine, and car companies absolutely rely on people falling in love with the things the car can do when they take it on a test drive?

"Sorry we're a CAR company, loser, the TIRE company is over there, you know, mavis tire and auto you ever heard of it idiot? Oh, you didn't bring your own forklift to get it over there? What kind of clown are you, luckily we sell Ferrari brand forklifts you can buy for twice the price of the same forklift without our brand sticker on it."

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/22 11:37:31


"I can't believe all these tryhard WAACs out there just care about winning all the time when it's supposed to be a game for fun!!!!!!! Also here's my 27 page essay on why marines are OP and Orkz should get a bunch of OP rules so I can win more games

-the_scotsman"

-ERJAK 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Its generally not good business to give stuff away for free if customers are happy paying for it. Whether you think those people paying for it are cultists, drones, or whatever doesn't change that fact. Its possible people will turn round and spend that money on more miniatures - but they may not.

Personally I think the modern codexes are kind of sad, with essentially no lore content compared to how things were decades ago - and often a relatively poor increase in art and photos.

But equally, I've often found games with free rules kind of complicated because as a new player you don't know where to start. Whereas its relatively simple, even with a superficial knowledge of a game, to get an army book and read it inside out at your leisure. You may not have the context to know whether X or Y is "good" - but it can still be "cool".

I am however a victim of codex hype. I read rumours leading up to a release, I may buy models and build armies as a consequence of that release, I then play some games, often lose the hype when lists don't work and then wait for another to come along. If everything was out at the start that wouldn't happen - and even though the codexes would theoretically be there for me to dig through, in practice other people would do so. Its hard for example to imagine me "discovering" Space Marines at this point a year or so on since their release. Partly this is "ew, Space Marines", partly its just because the book has been crunched. My lament on DE is that the book got crunched in about 2 weeks. "Its mad overpowered yo, take more or less whatever you like, except Talos."

Commercially this is silly - and I know other people bought an army 5-20 years ago, believe that should be it in terms of miniatures, and each edition they resent having to buy a new set of rules to play with it. But I'm not them.
   
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Of all of GW's old business practices it's their insistence that print must be the source of rules that has bothered me as time has gone on. I got it ten years ago when smartphones were still new and the battery life was trash, but in 2021 when almost everyone has a smartphone standard and the battery can easily handle a three hour game? Definitely not acceptable any more.

Lower barriers to entry are important to having a wider customer base and getting people to buy more models.

A common complaint I've been hearing regarding the books is that there are just too many of them. A friend of mine is a diehard for Necromunda but the sheer volume of books is pushing him away from the game.


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Tyel wrote:
Personally I think the modern codexes are kind of sad, with essentially no lore content compared to how things were decades ago - and often a relatively poor increase in art and photos.

It's the worst part of 3rd edition they've brought forward for sure.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/22 12:13:29


 
   
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I feel like the number of books needed is an issue for long-time hobbyists more than anyone else.
A lot of the people I used to play with (myself included) had quite a few armies, I think the average was 4 IIRC. As time has gone on though, those that are left have condensed themselves down quite a bit since buying 4 Codexes each edition was just not worth it. Someone who is newer to the hobby might only have one army for a whole Edition. Wish I could go back to such simpler times.
   
 
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