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 CMLR wrote:


The CP is a great purchase as it is, pretty much an insta buy for any new player, maybe even two, but I just don't want more Ethereals, more when I'm playing Enclaves.

Just use the Ethereal torso with some extra Fire Warrior legs/arms/head/backpack and you can make an extra Cadre Fireblade. Also note that the Cadre Fireblade fits the hoverboard quite well!

Curious if the prices are staying the same or if these are higher (Apologies if I missed it if it was already answered).

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Quasistellar wrote:
Custodes box could be great for multiples, even, depending on SoS being good or bad.

I dunno. I think the Custodes box suffers from the same failings as the Death Guard and Thousand Sons boxes in that they contain so many models that aren't Custodes/Death Guard/Thousand Sons.

If it'd been 3 Allarus Termies in place of 5 of the Sisters, but right now over half the box in the Adeptus Custodes box are things that are not Adeptus Custodes models.

Tzaangors are TS, they are part of their codex. So are all units included in the Death guard box. Aren't SoS part of the new Custodes codex?

Those are the factions names, nothing more. Aren't gretchins orks?

 Blackie wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Quasistellar wrote:
Custodes box could be great for multiples, even, depending on SoS being good or bad.

I dunno. I think the Custodes box suffers from the same failings as the Death Guard and Thousand Sons boxes in that they contain so many models that aren't Custodes/Death Guard/Thousand Sons.

If it'd been 3 Allarus Termies in place of 5 of the Sisters, but right now over half the box in the Adeptus Custodes box are things that are not Adeptus Custodes models.

Tzaangors are TS, they are part of their codex. So are all units included in the Death guard box. Aren't SoS part of the new Custodes codex?

Those are the factions names, nothing more. Aren't gretchins orks?

however the DG box has issues with the whole 1:1 ratio of bubonic astartes to chaff units.

 Blackie wrote:
Tzaangors are TS, they are part of their codex. So are all units included in the Death guard box. Aren't SoS part of the new Custodes codex?

Those are the factions names, nothing more. Aren't gretchins orks?

Don't be intentionally facetious (I assume this because I refuse to believe you are being intentionally obtuse). You know exactly what we're talking about.

That Tau box works for me. I like the infantry and I don't have the big stealth suit yet. The only downside for me is the Ethereal. Do I really want an Ethereal zergling rush army? It's the Dominus situation all over again.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Quasistellar wrote:
Custodes box could be great for multiples, even, depending on SoS being good or bad.

I dunno. I think the Custodes box suffers from the same failings as the Death Guard and Thousand Sons boxes in that they contain so many models that aren't Custodes/Death Guard/Thousand Sons.

If it'd been 3 Allarus Termies in place of 5 of the Sisters, but right now over half the box in the Adeptus Custodes box are things that are not Adeptus Custodes models.

While I agree that the ratio isn't ideal (and also with the idea of replacing one squad of bird people with a squad of Rubrics), in the case of Talons of the Emperor we're talking about Talons of the Emperor, not the dumb half faction GW made them with the 8th ed codex because they figured girl models have no place in an army of big burly super dudes or whatever.

In my opinion we're better off not basing the claim that there are not enough Custodes models in the Custodes box on one of GW's dumber marketing decisions.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Blackie wrote:
Tzaangors are TS, they are part of their codex. So are all units included in the Death guard box. Aren't SoS part of the new Custodes codex?

Those are the factions names, nothing more. Aren't gretchins orks?

Don't be intentionally facetious (I assume this because I refuse to believe you are being intentionally obtuse). You know exactly what we're talking about.

I honestly can't understand why anyone should complain about the content of those boxes. They're all units from the same codex, aren't they?

OK, 10 poxwalkers can't be fielded out of the box, assuming the DG player doesn't have anything else than what's in that kit. And what's the problem? You can play 500 points games without those additional 10 poxwalkers, but you can't play at 750 or 1000 without getting more kits anyway.

Those boxes are supposed to encourage people start collecting or expanding their collections. They're perfect for that. They don't need to be optimized, and I don't think many of those patrols are actually optimized for competitive gaming.

 Blackie wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Blackie wrote:
Tzaangors are TS, they are part of their codex. So are all units included in the Death guard box. Aren't SoS part of the new Custodes codex?

Those are the factions names, nothing more. Aren't gretchins orks?

Don't be intentionally facetious (I assume this because I refuse to believe you are being intentionally obtuse). You know exactly what we're talking about.

I honestly can't understand why anyone should complain about the content of those boxes. They're all units from the same codex, aren't they?

OK, 10 poxwalkers can't be fielded out of the box, assuming the DG player doesn't have anything else than what's in that kit. And what's the problem? You can play 500 points games without those additional 10 poxwalkers, but you can't play at 750 or 1000 without getting more kits anyway.

Those boxes are supposed to encourage people start collecting or expanding their collections. They're perfect for that. They don't need to be optimized, and I don't think many of those patrols are actually optimized for competitive gaming.

Because people who play Thousand Sons presumably want to play Thousand Sons instead of blobs of useless goats ported over from AoS

And because GW refuses to give TSons a substantial update, like with Death Guard, which they kinda need. They get no unique Daemon Engines, Vehicles, or even the psychic Dreadnoughts they canonically have and invented, and instead of fixing that, GW just pads all their boxes with goats.

"Useless" goats are part of the army, and not the only models in common with fantasy Tzeentch armies.

Most elite oriented armies would love having cheap infantries added to their rosters.

 Blackie wrote:
"Useless" goats are part of the army, and not the only models in common with fantasy Tzeentch armies.

Most elite oriented armies would love having cheap infantries added to their rosters.

It's weird because by a country mile THE iconic unit of the Thousand Sons is the Rubric Marine. The first thing you think of when 'Thousand Sons' comes to mind is going to be Rubric Marines.

Sure, Scarab Occult are technically Rubrics as well, but they're not what people think of when you say the R-word.

I'm probably one of the few people who's happy to see Tzaangors and Cultists and other 'mortal' units included in Chaos Marine books, but I still think it's really weird how they keep trying to cram them into every single box.

For a box that's pitched as a starting place for new Thousand Sons players, not including their iconic core infantry raises an eyebrow. Although I'm sure someone's going to jump in with "UM AKTUALLY ARBITRATOR YOU WHINER, IT DOESN'T SAY -START COLLECTING- ANYMORE."

 kodos wrote:
A player does not need anything from GW to use models/heroes that are not in the updated books

Oh cool, guess I'll start using The Decapitator and Baron Sathonyx in my games then.

Presumably the fact that their rules haven't been updated since 5th edition will cause no issues whatsoever.

If only Custodes one had 2 squads instead of 1 and jetbikes... eh.

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:

Because people who play Thousand Sons presumably want to play Thousand Sons instead of blobs of useless goats ported over from AoS

Barring the useless mini-unit from Silver Tower, proper Tzaangor units were in 40K before AoS. The kit was originally released with Wrath of Magnus and the boxes contained the 40K exclusive sprues. They were always intended to be a dual game kit.

 Blackie wrote:
"Useless" goats are part of the army, and not the only models in common with fantasy Tzeentch armies.

Most elite oriented armies would love having cheap infantries added to their rosters.

Tzangors don't really feel like gretchin do to orks or like poxwalkers feel to DG though. Their look and feel is completely off compared to those clean scarab-egyptian themed marines.
Tzangors feel much more in line with Tzeench Daemons than with TS.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/01/11/the-order-of-the-bloody-rose-get-even-more-fanatical-and-ferocious-in-their-new-codex-supplement/

Bloody Rose get the Codex Supplement in the first Nachmund book

Kill Team phrased as "later in the year" is interesting - certainly reads like the next KT box drops after the Eldar/CSM battle box.

 Blackie wrote:
I honestly can't understand why anyone should complain about the content of those boxes.

I don't believe you.

 Blackie wrote:
They're all units from the same codex, aren't they?

You really are missing this one, aren't you?

These boxes have been bulked out with non-standard units. Units that aren't representative of the army they're part of. Yes, Tzaangors are part of the 1KSons Codex, but actual Thousand Sons would perhaps be a better fit than more Beastmen. Yes, Sisters of Silence are part of the Adeptus Custodes book, but why do they outnumber the actual Custodes units in there. Yes, Pox Walkers are part of the Death Guard Codex, but why does the Death Guard box contain more pox walkers than Death Guard units, so much so that you cannot legally field what's in the box by itself (unlike the other Combat Patrols).

It'd be like if the new Tau one had a Ethereal, 3 Stealth Suits and 20 Kroot; wouldn't be very Tau-y. Or if the new GSC one had a Magus, 5 Hybrids, a Ridge Runner and 20 Cadians with 2 Brood Brother sprues. Technically possible within the army, but not a good representation of what the army is meant to be.

 Blackie wrote:
Those boxes are supposed to encourage people start collecting or expanding their collections. They're perfect for that. They don't need to be optimized, and I don't think many of those patrols are actually optimized for competitive gaming.

It's got nothing to do with being "optimised". Has anyone other than you even said "optimised" in reference to the boxes? When people think of Thousand Sons they don't think of no actual Thousand Son Marines and a gaggle of goatmen. When people think of Adeptus Custodes they generally don't think of a scant few Custodes and a legion of Sisters of Silence.

I'm really surprised you don't get this.

 Dysartes wrote:
Kill Team phrased as "later in the year" is interesting - certainly reads like the next KT box drops after the Eldar/CSM battle box.

I wouldn't read much into it. They like to use wording like this when they don't have set release dates.

Most TSons list only use a few MSU Rubrics, and people here are acting like they need them in every TSons box

The Custodes box would be rock solid if any variant of Sisters were a troop choice, but since I don’t own any Custodes or Sisters at all I’m tempted to grab it.

 zend wrote:
Most TSons list only use a few MSU Rubrics, and people here are acting like they need them in every TSons box

This is the TSons box though. Wouldn't it make sense to include a set?

 zend wrote:

The Custodes box would be rock solid if any variant of Sisters were a troop choice, but since I don’t own any Custodes or Sisters at all I’m tempted to grab it.

Aren't Prosecutors troops in the new codex?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
You really are missing this one, aren't you?

These boxes have been bulked out with non-standard units. Units that aren't representative of the army they're part of. Yes, Tzaangors are part of the 1KSons Codex, but actual Thousand Sons would perhaps be a better fit than more Beastmen. Yes, Sisters of Silence are part of the Adeptus Custodes book, but why do they outnumber the actual Custodes units in there. Yes, Pox Walkers are part of the Death Guard Codex, but why does the Death Guard box contain more pox walkers than Death Guard units, so much so that you cannot legally field what's in the box by itself (unlike the other Combat Patrols).

The Custodes box is equal if you build the units as basic, 2 Custodes units and 2 Sisters units. That being said, the Custodes squad comes as a unit of 3 models base meaning the other two can be a Shield Captain and Vexilus.
The Codex should always have been called "Talons of the Emperor" like it is in HH but obviously, marketing said that Custodes are a recognized name so they went with that instead.
I'm also 90% sure you are wrong with regards to the DG CP box. IIRC, all of the Marine units (Plague Marines, Typhys, Biophagus) count as 1 <Bubonic Astartes> unit, and therefore the potential 3 units of Poxwalkers are perfectly legal. It's exactly the same as the Tsons.

When people think of Adeptus Custodes they generally don't think of a scant few Custodes and a legion of Sisters of Silence.

I'm really surprised you don't get this.

1 - Custodes are always lesser in number compared to any other Imperial force.
2 - There are 2 Custodes units (technically 4) and 2 Sisters units. There are 8 Custodes models and 10 Sisters models. You are bad at maths.

 Gert wrote:
The Custodes box is equal if you build the units as basic, 2 Custodes units and 2 Sisters units.

And, again, it's about the inclusion of so much SoS in the first place that is the head scratcher. I agree that the Codex should have just been called 'Talons of the Emperor', and in the process exorcised any of the silly restrictions that exist with the SoS unit choices in the Codex (they're limited, because who knows...), but again, it's an Adeptus Custodes Combat Patrol where the Custodes are out numbered by non-Adeptus Custodes units. Swap it for Tau, and change most of the box to Kroot, and you'd have the same question mark over the whole thing.

 Gert wrote:
1 - Custodes are always lesser in number compared to any other Imperial force.
2 - There are 2 Custodes units (technically 4) and 2 Sisters units. There are 8 Custodes models and 10 Sisters models. You are bad at maths.

Irrelevant. It's a Custodes box that has fewer Custodes. Just like the Thousand Sons box contains more goats than Thousand Sons. Or the Death Guard box that contains more zombies than Death Guard.

"Bad at maths". It's like you don't even understand the conversation.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
And, again, it's about the inclusion of so much SoS in the first place that is the head scratcher. I agree that the Codex should have just been called 'Talons of the Emperor', and in the process exorcised any of the silly restrictions that exist with the SoS unit choices in the Codex (they're limited, because who knows...), but again, it's an Adeptus Custodes Combat Patrol where the Custodes are out numbered by non-Adeptus Custodes units. Swap it for Tau, and change most of the box to Kroot, and you'd have the same question mark over the whole thing.

Irrelevant. It's a Custodes box that has fewer Custodes. Just like the Thousand Sons box contains more goats than Thousand Sons. Or the Death Guard box that contains more zombies than Death Guard.

If I'm bad at maths, you lack reading comprehension skills.

You seem to be under the impression that a CP box is to be named for the units in the box rather than the Codex it accompanies. SoS are in the Custodes Codex, therefore they are included in the CP box. End of story.

As for outnumbering, I don't think 2 more models qualifies, especially when the Custodes make more units than the SoS do out of the models available in said box. Your assertation that the CP box included a "legion" of SoS is just flat-out wrong and hyperbole.

And for the SoS being restricted in the new Codex, have you got a source for that? I may just be remembering the previews wrong but I never saw anything that suggested that SoS were in any way restricted in a Custodes army.

The original aim for Combat Patrol boxes was to replace the Start Collecting sets with around ~500pts of models for a playable army. However thanks to the big cost-per-point disparity between different factions, it's pretty obvious that some of them will be tricky to balance and not all will be equivalent.

Just using the Custodes models without the Sisters from that box gives more points than most other Combat Patrols, but also a pretty poor discount. Using purely Custodes models with a discount comparable to other factions would be worth far, far more points-wise. It would be less like a Start Collecting set and more like a Finished Collecting set.

It's not really that shocking they put some cheap infantry in box with the games' most elite infantry faction.

 xttz wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/01/11/the-order-of-the-bloody-rose-get-even-more-fanatical-and-ferocious-in-their-new-codex-supplement/

Bloody Rose get the Codex Supplement in the first Nachmund book

Yay. More 'did you pick the One True Subfaction of this faction' rules.

 Gert wrote:
I'm also 90% sure you are wrong with regards to the DG CP box. IIRC, all of the Marine units (Plague Marines, Typhys, Biophagus) count as 1 <Bubonic Astartes> unit, and therefore the potential 3 units of Poxwalkers are perfectly legal.

"You cannot include more POXWALKER units than BUBONIC ASTARTES CORE INFANTRY units in each DEATH GUARD Detachment in your army."

Hilariously, the box is even doubly illegal, as you are only allowed to run two units of troops in a combat patrol game, so you can't ever run both the 30 pox walkers and the plague marines anyways.

It's still a decent starting point for a new DG player, so I guess it does its job.

Haven't Tzaangors been in the lore for several editions now?

(Edit: it turns out they've been in the game since Rogue Trader. LOL at the person claiming they're a port from Age of Sigmar.)

 Jidmah wrote:

 Gert wrote:
I'm also 90% sure you are wrong with regards to the DG CP box. IIRC, all of the Marine units (Plague Marines, Typhys, Biophagus) count as 1 <Bubonic Astartes> unit, and therefore the potential 3 units of Poxwalkers are perfectly legal.

"You cannot include more POXWALKER units than BUBONIC ASTARTES CORE INFANTRY units in each DEATH GUARD Detachment in your army."

Hilariously, the box is even doubly illegal, as you are only allowed to run two units of troops in a combat patrol game, so you can't ever run both the 30 pox walkers and the plague marines anyways.

It's still a decent starting point for a new DG player, so I guess it does its job.

Patrols allow 1-3 units of Troops.

 blood reaper wrote:
Haven't Tzaangors been in the lore for several editions now?

(Edit: it turns out they've been in the game since Rogue Trader. LOL at the person claiming they're a port from Age of Sigmar.)

It's literally an Age of Sigmar kit with an upgrade sprue tossed in.