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Simply put, what combinations or weapons actually give this unit a hard time?

Weapons that ignore invulnerable saves. But those weapons are rare; Necron Lords, C'tans, and Daemon Hunters have those weapons.

High volumes of fire.

I agree with normal massed fire.

Its 4+ invul ? thats easy to fail o_o

A librarian with null zone in a 10 man squad of sternguard.


No armor or Invul save...

a 4+ inv. save isnt that much atall.
if thats the case then massed shooting will work wonders.
even massed combat (from dedicated units such as letters or stealers) will drag them down fairly quickly.

come to think about it, they have the advantage of movement, that still does not stop massed fire from killing them, so against things like loota or oblit spam they have serious problems.
even massed flahlights can take them down.

Clthomps wrote:A librarian with null zone in a 10 man squad of sternguard.


No armor or Invul save...

Nullzone does not negate invulnerable saves.

Doesn't the jetbike confer a 3+ armor save to the rider. So the Seer Council on jetbike would have a 3+/4+ or am I wrong?

DarthDiggler wrote:Doesn't the jetbike confer a 3+ armor save to the rider. So the Seer Council on jetbike would have a 3+/4+ or am I wrong?

Right!

Nonetheless AP3 combined with re-rolling successful Invulnerable saves may hurt, if the Eldar player somehow forget their Runes of Warding.

And any seer council worth its salt will have fortune as well, so you're looking at a 3+ re-rollable save. Seer councils dont like being charged by hordes. They have high I and wound on 2s so MCs arent really much of a problem and good enough saves so that MEQs cant really go the distance. Hordes dont care if you wound on 2 or really if you have fantastic saves, eventually you will roll some ones. Terminators are also good on the charge because 2+ saves are hard to crack. The problem with this is that jetbike councils are very very fast, so its unlikely that you will be able to get off a good charge against them unless you get lucky.

If the Farseer isn't buried inside the squad, charging he/she/it with some powerfists or something like it and hoping one gets past the rerolled save for the insta-squish works well. It may be tricky to catch the Farseer open like that, however.

I've often found that this game isn't about the roll, it's about the re-roll. Twin linked weapons, FNP, anything that allows reroll is pretty uber. Either that or all my opponents have mad rerolling skills.

I've beaten one with 5 squads of CSM. All charged in at the same time and both sides dissolved on turn 7. I don't know what to say besides massed something. I think CC is nice because it keeps them in one spot.

Space Marine Librarians with Nullzone in a Sternguard Squad can pretty effectively kill Seer Councils as they can fire hellfire negate the effects of Fortune with Nullzone or possibly stop it out right with their psychic hood.

Hollismason wrote:Space Marine Librarians with Nullzone in a Sternguard Squad can pretty effectively kill Seer Councils as they can fire hellfire negate the effects of Fortune with Nullzone or possibly stop it out right with their psychic hood.

It is a nice idea, but there is a better chance for the Farseer's RoW stopping Nulzone, than there is of the Libby's Hood stopping Fortune.

The 3+ armor save conferred by the jetbike pretty much makes the mount worth the points. There isn't much that ignores both the armor save and the invulnerable save. Rerolls for the armor save is very resilient. I think the best way to kill them is just make them roll a lot of dice for their saves. It is an expensive unit so it's worth focusing fire on them to an extent. Once you have whittled them down if you can catch them in assault they should drop fast.

G

Culexus assasin. Makes the seer council Ld7 and can focus-fire the farseer to death. The bikes, being faster, could obviously avoid him, but not if they are already tied up in close combat.

All you have to do is get him in assault, and the whole squad is boned. Just being within 6" of him forces them to take a Ld test (at Ld7) and if they are in assault there is a good chance they could get swept.

Hollismason wrote:Space Marine Librarians with Nullzone in a Sternguard Squad can pretty effectively kill Seer Councils as they can fire hellfire negate the effects of Fortune with Nullzone or possibly stop it out right with their psychic hood.

Unless they turbo boosted in the previous turn. Then they charge your sternguard and you're boned.

What they really fear is a poor modeller's attempt at making them.

EDIT:

The culexus isn't every reliable either, since the farseer will get to re-roll his leadership for the squad's embolden-lock, and the council has decently high enough initiative that they could get away from a sweeping advance as well. A libby's psychic hood to shut down fortune and terminators with thunder hammers or powerfists work the best for marines.

If you play IG and can manage to kill 3 in a turn, you can hit them with WR. Even Embolden can't really save them consistantly there. WR is basically the answer to whatever non-fearless uber unit your opponent puts on the table though.

I really don't think that psychic powers are going to be the answer to this one. Runes of Warding are going to making passing those psychic tests hard and really pushes up the chances of getting perils. I think volume of fire is the way to go. If you can get the squad whittled down a bit Str 6+ weapons can make every wound roll scary for the farseer in the squad. Trumping the squad's mobility is going to be hard though as you may only get 1 or 2 opportunities to fire on them directly.

Edit: spelling fail

Massed bolter fire can do them in over a round or two. Feed them a bait unit, and be waiting to riddle them with fire after they smush the bait. Make it good bait, tho.

Amusingly enough, other Eldar are the biggest threat to Seer Councils, with Bike Councils being only slightly harder than the foot version. I play mechdar, and have faced bike councils and fielded foot councils (not anymore, currently making them some hoverboards...). Bladestorms (or even basic Guardian shuriken fire) and Warwalkers with scatterlasers will mess Councils up bad. Prisms with contributing fire can do some damage too- fire those before anything else to avoid thinning them out first. Plenty of splinter rifle fire can do the same. In CC, other Eldar units can even get the jump on the Council (Banshees, Harlies, Wyches) and take them out first.

The only downsides I can see is a lack of long range firepower, power weapons and the fact that a lot of stuff gets to shoot at skimmers if they don't zoom into combat quick enough.
There's always the chance that you'll finish off an easy close target (e.g. guardsmen) then get to bits with rapid-fire.

I say that the worst thing these guys have to fear is a squad of fifty guardsmen unloading upon them with the "first volley fire..." command order. 150 shots, no matter how weak, will kill them.

whitedragon wrote:Unless they turbo boosted in the previous turn. Then they charge your sternguard and you're boned.

If they did that they didn't cast fortune so they are boned in your shooting phase (turbo boost prevents any other action in the turn, including psychic abilities).

Exarch_Nektel wrote:I say that the worst thing these guys have to fear is a squad of fifty guardsmen unloading upon them with the "first volley fire..." command order. 150 shots, no matter how weak, will kill them.

Guess again:

150 shots x 1/2 hit x 1/3 wound x 8/9 saves = 2.8 dead warlocks. woo.

On the one hand you could suggest that a pbs would make them run (40% chance of getting it past the runes). On the other hand you will never get all those shots. If you do get those shots you are about to lose 5 scoring units/kill points to a massive multi-charge.

Jetseers are very popular this side of the pond competatively- they won the last GT final.

If you "blob" the platoon, it's actually only one KP. Actually, to get the FRFSRF order off on that many troopers, you'd have to combine them into a single unit.

OddJob. wrote:

whitedragon wrote:Unless they turbo boosted in the previous turn. Then they charge your sternguard and you're boned.

If they did that they didn't cast fortune so they are boned in your shooting phase (turbo boost prevents any other action in the turn, including psychic abilities).

That certainly is true however Fortune is cast as the start of the eldar turn, which is an exception to the normal psychic power rules and is possibly an exception to the turbo boosters restriction. I've seen it played both ways. I'd discuss it with your opponent prior to doing anything.

whitedragon wrote:That certainly is true however Fortune is cast as the start of the eldar turn, which is an exception to the normal psychic power rules and is possibly an exception to the turbo boosters restriction. I've seen it played both ways. I'd discuss it with your opponent prior to doing anything.

By the tone of your message i'm sure you are aware of the rules debate but I'll outline it here anyway for others:

1. Casting fortune occurs in the turn.
2. Turboboosting prevents any other voluntary action in the same turn (but happens after the psychic test).
3. The only way to not break the turboboosting proviso is to either not turbo boost or not cast fortune.

I've seen it played both ways too but I know which side of the debate I rest on.

Libby with Null Zone does it for me. Kill the Fortune, the Invul and the Libby can even use his Force Weapon against the Farseer.

OddJob,

I just wanted to point that out so the OP would be aware of said fact if he encounters it in a game. Maybe we can start a new thread in YMDC.

Ctan will destroy them.

The council on bike will most likely turbo zoom so sternguard can only at that poojnt negate one of the 3 saves and nullzone will negate the invulnerable saves.

I would say first turn is what Seer Councils fear. 1 turn of no psychic powers and no benefits from turbo mean a good sucker punch can kill the entire council.